02-04-15 02:11 PM
37 12
tools
  1. marcusperkins's Avatar
    Starting to get into the classic, but there continues to be a number of slightly unintuitive responses to the toolbelt operation.

    I understand everybody has slightly different needs and expectations, but when I'm in the Hub, I wish the back button would (in steps) go all the way back to the root rather than just one step back then before going to the Apps screen.

    I do prefer using the belt over constant swiping, but with the current set-up it is impossible to get around the hub using only the belt.

    I guess a long press on the return could then take you back to the apps screen.
    01-31-15 02:32 AM
  2. dalight13's Avatar
    If you press the back arrow on the screen and swipe it to the right it takes you back to the root folder.

    And if you swipe from the bottom it should take you back to the apps screen

    Posted from my Canadian PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2072
    Mr4aces likes this.
    01-31-15 02:55 AM
  3. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I don't understand the issue - the return key does take you back to the previous display, in steps, as requested by you, while the end key takes you back to the home (apps) screen instantly.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-15 02:57 AM
  4. marcusperkins's Avatar
    I don't understand the issue - the return key does take you back to the previous display, in steps, as requested by you, while the end key takes you back to the home (apps) screen instantly.

    Posted via CB10
    That's the point, it only takes you back to the previous display. If you want to go to a different input (text to email for example) you have to revert to swiping. It would be easier and more intuitive to continue pressing return.
    01-31-15 05:01 AM
  5. gnirkatto's Avatar
    That's the point, it only takes you back to the previous display. If you want to go to a different input (text to email for example) you have to revert to swiping. It would be easier and more intuitive to continue pressing return.
    Still totally unclear what you complain about. You can go from creating a new text message to hub to creating a new email message by use of the return and menu keys or keyboard shortcuts only. No screen tapping nor swiping needed at all, unless you want it.
    01-31-15 06:55 AM
  6. Mr4aces's Avatar
    What Marcus is saying is the return key is not functioning like the 99. If you press the rk on the 99 two times you go back two pages. Usually if you press it once it goes back to the main page, HOWEVER on some apps it will take you back one page and it you press it twice it then goes back to the main page.

    I still have a habit of pressing the return key to go back also and end up on the main page.

    Does anybody know what is worse to learn on? Windows 8.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-15 07:44 AM
  7. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    I understand OP and agree. Toolbelt is definitely not ideal in the Hub, and other apps too.

    I'm nearing the conclusion that BB needs to really make a toolbelt OS version. Or some toggle button to engage and prioritize 'toolbelt' mode.

    Right now only the people that enjoy touch are very happy. Those of use that prefer to navigate with toolbelt and keys are penalized.
    01-31-15 07:52 AM
  8. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I understand OP and agree. Toolbelt is definitely not ideal in the Hub, and other apps too.

    I'm nearing the conclusion that BB needs to really make a toolbelt OS version. Or some toggle button to engage and prioritize 'toolbelt' mode.

    Right now only the people that enjoy touch are very happy. Those of use that prefer to navigate with toolbelt and keys are penalized.
    I agree the toolbelt integration with the hub (and with some other apps) is not perfect (yet?). I sometimes wonder how I would achieve what I want to achieve, by using the toolbelt only.
    What I'm not getting is this very complaint of the OP, about 'having to swipe' when going from text message composing to email composing. You don't have to swipe to achieve this.
    01-31-15 09:28 AM
  9. marcusperkins's Avatar
    For those who don't understand what I mean, it is impossible to go back to the Hub root using the back key. When I say 'root' I mean the hub view where you have all your accounts on the left.

    So you can return to the root of any particular account, but press again and you're sent back to the apps page. Why not the back to the root of the Hub?
    01-31-15 03:34 PM
  10. jas1978's Avatar
    I never thought about that, but what you say does make sense. Hopefully that will be a feature in a future update.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-15 05:09 PM
  11. anon9133023's Avatar
    While you do need to tap the screen at that point, the hamburger menu on the bottom left is conveniently located. The hub opens and the trackpad can immediately be used and is correctly located on the proper hub account.

    It's directly above the phone toolbelt so not in a completely unreasonable or obscure spot. It's maybe BlackBerry's way of nudging people forward?
    01-31-15 05:58 PM
  12. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Well, I still don't understand why the big deal, to tap the screen one millimeter above the toolbelt. Like I always said, there is no swiping needed, which the OP repeatedly claimed.

    But for the sake of it, here is how you can get to what you call the 'root', without screen tapping:

    Push 'B'
    Scroll down on the trackpad. Only one small move needed, and the create icon will get highlighted.
    Scroll left on the trackpad, menu sign gets highlighted.
    Push trackpad.
    Bingo.

    I personally prefer a tiny movement of my left thumb. And if BlackBerry focuses on improving some of the really annoying issues, I'm perfectly ok with that.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-15 06:20 PM
  13. marcusperkins's Avatar
    The final tap to get to the hamburger menu (great name) may be just above the tool belt, but it is on the far side and quite a reach for some. Surely, it would be easier to use the same button to get back.

    My original comment was that it was 'slightly unintuitive'. I believe this is a reasonable observation.
    02-01-15 02:00 AM
  14. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    Thought I had would be to make the hamburger side menu open up when you swipe the trackpad quickly from right to left when the cursor is within the center email section of the Hub.

    Touching screen and B to bottom is very clunky.
    02-01-15 08:48 AM
  15. gnirkatto's Avatar
    No, swiping the trackpad right to left doesn't do anything.
    To be clear I myself never use the 'B' method. Just wanted to outline that there IS a method to avoid screen tapping.
    And yes, having to tap the hamburger menu sign is not very consistent with full toolbelt operations, however, there is no 'swiping' involved, nor is it really a big effort or 'clunky' imho.
    I think there are more annoying inconsistencies in navigating the OS and its apps with the toolbelt than this one.
    These were the only points I wanted to make in response to the OP's complaint.

    Posted via CB10
    02-02-15 03:08 AM
  16. CpE CKS's Avatar
    OP, maybe it'll make the tool belt too powerful if that's the case.

    Quality under the skin.
    02-02-15 04:36 AM
  17. marcusperkins's Avatar
    If the Hub is supposed to be the foundation of the OS10 productivity experience, then you would think the navigation would be buttery smooth and super intuitive.

    It's not a deal breaker, but why not get it right?

    Same as the rather silly situation where you have to sometimes swipe up to wake the screen in order to use the end call key to terminate a call.

    Somebody somewhere is not really thinking this through. When it comes to core productive functionality, BlackBerry must stand head and shoulders above all other platforms - because it can't really compete in the majority of other areas.
    DeliFresser likes this.
    02-02-15 04:38 AM
  18. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I fully agree with the end call key issue. This is probably the biggest operational issue on the Classic. End call has to immediately end the call, regardless of where I am on the phone, period.
    This is one example for what I mean by there being much more annoying issues than the hamburger in hub one.

    Posted via CB10
    02-02-15 04:45 AM
  19. marcusperkins's Avatar
    Totally agree with you there.

    But in a way, these are all related top level functions not operating in the most efficient manner which is damaging to BlackBerry.

    I'm quite certain the programming underneath all of this is hideously complex, but BlackBerry cannot afford to get this wrong.
    02-02-15 05:04 AM
  20. gnirkatto's Avatar
    This is true.
    By the way first feedback on the Classic from some former BBOS users was that '...this does not work the way I'm used to...', referring to the toolbelt.
    This might not be a representative cross-section of all former BBOS users, as I only know 2 who moved to a Classic. One is ok-ish with it, the other one said the above.
    02-02-15 06:32 AM
  21. anon9133023's Avatar
    My sense, and I do mobile tech for a living thus "hamburger menu" which is the actual ux/ui name for that little guy, is the toolbelt was an afterthought. I get this predominantly from the unusual places the cursor positions itself on just about any screen.

    If in fact I'm wrong then some pretty low quality work was done integrating it into the rest of the inputs and gestures.

    One of the worst inconsistencies I've found is the location of Settings. Anywhere from left to right to top.
    02-02-15 10:10 PM
  22. mad_mdx's Avatar
    My sense, and I do mobile tech for a living thus "hamburger menu" which is the actual ux/ui name for that little guy, is the toolbelt was an afterthought. I get this predominantly from the unusual places the cursor positions itself on just about any screen.

    If in fact I'm wrong then some pretty low quality work was done integrating it into the rest of the inputs and gestures.

    One of the worst inconsistencies I've found is the location of Settings. Anywhere from left to right to top.
    The whole OS was built on never needing the toolbelt again. Sarhan it's back and useless
    02-02-15 10:53 PM
  23. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Let's not forget that the release of the Classic was delayed, mainly because of the refinements that they needed to make to integrate the toolbelt into an OS that was never meant to be a toolbelt OS.
    At least this is what Chen said in an interview quite some time ago if I remember correctly.
    So I would not call it a bad job what they did, but it simply is not entirely ready...however, the alternative decision would have been to delay it even further.
    I am not sure what would have been smarter. The way it is now does disappoint some legacy users. A further delay would have disappointed many others, me included.

    I see the imperfections of the current implementation, but I can easily live with it and enjoy the Classic, as I am an experienced BB10 user.
    I'm not so sure about upgraders from BBOS or 'crossgraders' from other platforms. This is a concern.

    Posted via CB10
    02-03-15 03:34 AM
  24. TomasTT's Avatar
    I think best would be, if we can assign specific action, what will the return key do.
    I think its totally stupid to return to main screen, when I entered hub, opened for example Facebook messages and then when I press return key, I would expect to be back in the hub, not on the mainscreen. If I want to go to mainscreen, I can press hang down key and it will do the same.
    Simply it does not recognise opening hub and opening any hub messages as separate steps.

    As I use hub for 99% daily work with the phone, this functionality is throwing whole idea of the toolbelt in the trash.
    02-03-15 05:21 AM
  25. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I think best would be, if we can assign specific action, what will the return key do.
    I think its totally stupid to return to main screen, when I entered hub, opened for example Facebook messages and then when I press return key, I would expect to be back in the hub, not on the mainscreen. If I want to go to mainscreen, I can press hang down key and it will do the same.
    Simply it does not recognise opening hub and opening any hub messages as separate steps.

    As I use hub for 99% daily work with the phone, this functionality is throwing whole idea of the toolbelt in the trash.
    But the return key DOES bring you back to the hub (assuming you're talking of the real hub, not the hamburger menu), not to the main screen (assuming you are talking about the BB10 home screen).
    I don't have Facebook, but regardless of which message I open in the hub (email, text, BBM, doesn't matter), pressing return brings me back to the hub. Only the call end screen brings me back to the home screen.
    02-03-15 06:43 AM
37 12

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