05-04-15 09:03 PM
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  1. bbinoz's Avatar
    I know that several threads already exist regarding the BlackBerry Classic and the issue with double typing.

    I have a theory:

    The Classic has always been susceptible to double typing and all BlackBerry devices with a similar physical keyboard (Q-10) will also be susceptible to this problem.

    Why?

    I thought I was pretty fast typing on my Bold 9900, after a month of using my Classic I am convinced I am substantially faster at typing on this device than anything else except a full-size computer keyboard. The larger size of the keyboard on the Classic give my thumbs more room to move and I therefore type quicker and with greater accuracy.

    I put it to BlackBerry users that we are expecting too much out of what is essentially a plastic miniature computer keyboard attached to a phone.

    I went onto Google and typed in 'mobile typing test'. I followed the first link and for 30 seconds I typed at the speed I normally type at. I don't consider myself to be super fast or any more proficient at using a BlackBerry keyboard than other fans - but even I was surprised at the results.

    In 30 seconds I typed:
    - 31 Words (57 wpm)
    - 100% Accuracy
    - 153 keystrokes.

    That turns out to be 5.1 keystrokes every second!

    I noted during the Classic's keynote, the presenter stated that when researchers at BlackBerry looked at the way we type on our devices, our thumb is pressing down on the next key before we have even typed the one we are currently pressing.

    5.1 inputs every second!!!

    The keyboard on the BlackBerry Classic is the biggest yet, enabling us to be quicker than ever before.

    Surely when designing a keyboard that can register over 5 inputs per second with 100% accuracy, either the hardware or software is going to occasionally 'give'. In the same way that we make typing mistakes, at 5.1 inputs a second the plastic components and software on a mobile phone are going to be susceptible to error.

    Delete this thread if you want, but I think that as consumers of what is widely known to be the fastest, smallest, most accurate and comfortable keyboard - we need to be aware that sometimes the device will either not register an input it should have OR it will register an additional input when we did not enter one. That is the cost of being able to type at 51 word per minute, at 100% accuracy on a mobile phone.

    To be completely honest, I'm surprised that the keyboard on my Classic does not make more errors than it does. Think about it, the users in the double typing post stated that on bad days, they notice the device registers a double type maybe 5 times.

    If the user is typing for half an hour during the day, and notices 10 instances of double typing (which is certainly a lot and would **** you off - I think this would be considered a seriously bad phone) then taking into consideration my typing speed which I consider pretty normal amongst BlackBerry enthusiasts, that works out to be 10 errors for every 9180 inputs or an error rate of 0.10% or 99.9% accuracy.

    I put it to everyone who owns a BlackBerry Classic that if you are experiencing less than 10 instances of double typing every half an hour - your device is over 99.9% accurate!

    If you need to type with 100% accuracy - what the hell are you doing on a mobile phone?

    Maybe BlackBerry shouldn't have designed such an efficient keyboard which a human is able to learn to such a degree that he can register over 5 inputs every second! Maybe the bigger frets, softer touch, individually cut to feel different keys were a bad idea!

    Everyone:
    Slow down with your typing and stop expecting to be able to type at the same speed with the same accuracy of a computer. If you need better than 99.9% accuracy, you need to move to a computer!

    *Edit: If you'd like to take the typing test I took and compare results, head over to http://10fastfingers.com/mobile

    Storm 2 > Bold 9900 > Classic
    Last edited by bbinoz; 04-07-15 at 10:05 PM.
    andy957 and jrsva2008 like this.
    04-07-15 04:09 AM
  2. kanungoash's Avatar
    Sorry but I hate to deviate a bit. I don't use the keyboard like the other BlackBerry loyalists do. I'm really slow at typing and according to your theory I shouldn't experience any double typing issues because of my relaxed style. But I do experience it. Okay the classic is not as bad as the Q10. I had to sell off my Q because of it was literally unusable.
    Though I agree with you totally that it's somehow related to typing style. I had the 9900 back in 2011, q10 in 2014 and now the classic and all of them were plagued with this issue. I refuse to believe that It's due to faulty hardware. How can three different devices bought in three different years built in different factories of the world have the same problem?? The people who experience double typing have it forever with every BlackBerry device with a pkb and the people who don't, think it's a myth. The common element is BlackBerry os and the typing style.
    Think about it.

    Posted via CB10
    jrsva2008, thymaster and 308hunter like this.
    04-07-15 04:46 AM
  3. BBUniq01's Avatar
    I know that several threads already exist regarding the BlackBerry Classic and the issue with double typing.

    I have a theory:

    The Classic has always been susceptible to double typing and all BlackBerry devices with a similar physical keyboard (Q-10) will also be susceptible to this problem.

    Why?

    I thought I was pretty fast typing on my Bold 9900, after a month of using my Classic I am convinced I am substantially faster at typing on this device than anything else except a full-size computer keyboard. The larger size of the keyboard on the Classic give my thumbs more room to move and I therefore type quicker and with greater accuracy.

    I put it to BlackBerry users that we are expecting too much out of what is essentially a plastic miniature computer keyboard attached to a phone.

    I went onto Google and typed in 'mobile typing test'. I followed the first link and for 30 seconds I typed at the speed I normally type at. I don't consider myself to be super fast or any more proficient at using a BlackBerry keyboard than other fans - but even I was surprised at the results.

    In 30 seconds I typed:
    - 31 Words (57 wpm)
    - 100% Accuracy
    - 153 keystrokes.

    That turns out to be 5.1 keystrokes every second!

    I noted during the Classic's keynote, the presenter stated that when researchers at BlackBerry looked at the way we type on our devices, our thumb is pressing down on the next key before we have even typed the one we are currently pressing.

    5.1 inputs every second!!!

    The keyboard on the BlackBerry Classic is the biggest yet, enabling us to be quicker than ever before.

    Surely when designing a keyboard that can register over 5 inputs per second with 100% accuracy, either the hardware or software is going to occasionally 'give'. In the same way that we make typing mistakes, at 5.1 inputs a second the plastic components and software on a mobile phone are going to be susceptible to error.

    Delete this thread if you want, but I think that as consumers of what is widely known to be the fastest, smallest, most accurate and comfortable keyboard - we need to be aware that sometimes the device will either not register an input it should have OR it will register an additional input when we did not enter one. That is the cost of being able to type at 51 word per minute, at 100% accuracy on a mobile phone.

    To be completely honest, I'm surprised that the keyboard on my Classic does not make more errors than it does. Think about it, the users in the double typing post stated that on bad days, they notice the device registers a double type maybe 5 times.

    If the user is typing for half an hour during the day, and notices 10 instances of double typing (which is certainly a lot and would **** you off - I think this would be considered a seriously bad phone) then taking into consideration my typing speed which I consider pretty normal amongst BlackBerry enthusiasts, that works out to be 10 errors for every 9180 inputs or an error rate of 0.10% or 99.9% accuracy.

    I put it to everyone who owns a BlackBerry Classic that if you are experiencing less than 10 instances of double typing every half an hour - your device is over 99.9% accurate!

    If you need to type with 100% accuracy - what the hell are you doing on a mobile phone?

    Maybe BlackBerry shouldn't have designed such an efficient keyboard which a human is able to learn to such a degree that he can register over 5 inputs every second! Maybe the bigger frets, softer touch, individually cut to feel different keys were a bad idea!

    Everyone:
    Slow down with your typing and stop expecting to be able to type at the same speed with the same accuracy of a computer. If you need better than 99.9% accuracy, you need to move to a computer!

    Storm 2 > Bold 9900 > Classic
    Pretty neat observation. I have had to slow myself down too sometimes. I have not experienced the double typing issues with neither of my 9900, Q10 or current Classic. But I totally get ur point. I do type faster on my phone vs my keyboard at work, lol. I find myself double pressing on my work's keyboard for the period.

    Posted via Classic
    04-07-15 07:02 AM
  4. Fastmarc's Avatar
    Interesting theory. I don't think I'm a super fast typer and I am experiencing it. I also never experienced this with my 9700.
    My personal opinion is that it's a combination of software and hardware. The hardware is sensitive and the software is just too quick to register every input. I think a software adjustment can fix it. Possibly slowing down, so that double input from a sensitive keypad isn't registered.
    Also if the autocorrect worked better, picking up stuff like aand or other obvious errors, it would make a big difference. Maybe that is even an easier fix.
    It's interesting to note that I have never experienced it when in alt lock for #.

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 07:07 AM
  5. davisgq's Avatar
    Interesting observation and research, OP. As my signature line states, I have had a Bold 9650, Bold 9930, Q10, and now the Classic. Out of those devices, only the Q10 experienced issues with double typing and also lack of response from several keys, making the device pretty useless for pounding out emails or texts rapidly. This occurred after about a year of use and abuse. I've only had my Classic for about 2 weeks and so far, so good but obviously, will have to see down the road but I can already notice the difference between the Q10 and Classic in terms of key response.

    I also find that I type better/more accurately on a Blackberry keyboard as opposed to a computer keyboard. So uncanny. Haha.
    04-07-15 08:44 AM
  6. bustedopen's Avatar
    I suppose you are correct in some regard about typing speed related to the double typing issue - particularly partial to the Q10.

    Unfortunately, it has been determined to be a hardware issue. The Bold series keyboards are susceptible to wear especially when steam is involved (ie those that take their phone into the bathroom with them).

    The expanding and contracting of the keyboard affects the sensitivity of the keys and keystrokes, thus resulting in the double typing phenomenon.

    I had my keyboard replaced, at a minimal cost, and, problem solved. I hope this helps.

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 08:47 AM
  7. kobnyc's Avatar
    This is so true! I can type so fast on my Classic that I often cannot keep up with myself. I'm amazed that there are not more mistakes.

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 10:02 AM
  8. marcusperkins's Avatar
    Interesting observation and we'll worth mentioning, but I don't think that is the issue: the problem gets worse with time regardless of the type speed and persists when typing one handed (very slow) on my Q10.

    I type faster on my Classic with far fewer issues - at least for now.
    Denny_Crane likes this.
    04-07-15 10:41 AM
  9. Billy Bob Jimmy Joe's Avatar
    Typing slow also suffers from double typing.

    One time when I typed, "Where are you going?" it came out "Wheerre. Aree you. Gooinng?"

    I wish it was only %0.01 inaccurate.

    Posted via BlackBerry Classic
    04-07-15 01:14 PM
  10. bbuser_5150's Avatar
    Did u type all that on your blackberry classic? Wow!!
    04-07-15 01:53 PM
  11. idssteve's Avatar
    Pretty good typing rate.

    I just replaced my 9900's kb for this issue. First time i ever noticed it on 9900. New keyboard "fixed" it. 5 minutes over break time. Left ten minutes for coffee.

    My observation is that the second character enters almost instantly after initial. Indicating possible contact bounce, or break, or other transient input malady.

    For industrial controls my company provides, 100ms TDs are provided, SOP, for ALL control inputs to "filter" possible contact bounce. If we take your 5.1 wps and arbitrarily double to assume 10wps likely max, that's 100ms per stroke. A 100ms TD input "filter" just might prevent contact bounce "double typing".

    The OS obviously already includes time delays for CAP inputs so the timer is there. If the relevant timer registers can be accessed, i find it difficult to believe the same registers can't be utilized to inhibit input until 100ms after previous input. Course, I've never coded for smartphones, so... ??
    04-07-15 04:23 PM
  12. bbinoz's Avatar
    Did u type all that on your blackberry classic? Wow!!
    I'm not sure if you are referring to the length or my original post or the actual typing speed that I referred to - either way, yes it was all typed on my Classic.

    Ever since I've owned the Bold 9900 (and now my Classic) - I actually really enjoy typing up long messages and documents on my BlackBerry. I think it has also really contributed to me improving my spelling and grammar as I don't ever use 'text talk' when I have a full keyboard at my fingertips. Also, there is something uniquely satisfying about typing on a BlackBerry and this is why I think minor issues such as double typing or a squishy or loose key are really big deals for BlackBerry users - it ruins the whole experience.

    I don't know exactly what I can put it down to, but the style and size of the font, the feeling of the keys on my thumbs, the sounds of the device as I push the keys and simply experiencing a sense of achievement when looking at an entire document created in the palm of my hand - it all comes together and creates an experience that I haven't been able to replicate on any other device. Obviously I am not the only one to have this thought as 'strange' as some may see it but the Classic is the only instance I've ever seen of a company deliberately going backwards when designing a device.

    Storm 2 > Bold 9900 > Classic
    Plazmic Flame likes this.
    04-07-15 09:27 PM
  13. kenicolo's Avatar
    I work as a cellphone retailer and I saw many q10 with this problem. Hardware failure is all I have to say.

    The keyboard was entering letters by only lightly touching the broken keys. Didn't even pressed the key. No "clic"

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 09:32 PM
  14. bbinoz's Avatar
    Typing slow also suffers from double typing.

    One time when I typed, "Where are you going?" it came out "Wheerre. Aree you. Gooinng?"

    I wish it was only %0.01 inaccurate.

    Posted via BlackBerry Classic
    Did this instance of double typing (the example you referred to above) occur on a BlackBerry Classic or Q-10?

    I understand that the Q-10 had significant problems and many users needed to replace the devices only to find the new device had the same problem. I can understand how if this happened and someone upgraded to the Classic and then witnessed it double type - well I can understand the paranoia and frustration.

    Storm 2 > Bold 9900 > Classic
    04-07-15 09:37 PM
  15. nglfmark's Avatar
    Original post is correct if you really don't have a defective keyboard. Those who have Q10 double typing or triple typing have this problem for almost every single word (no matter how slow they type). I had this on 2 of my Q10s and doesn't depend on the age. I had it on one less than 12 months and one suffered after 2 months. So unfortunately you can get 90 -100% errors when typing. It does get that bad.

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 09:51 PM
  16. evodevo69's Avatar
    Interesting perspective on the whole double typing issue.



    #CB10 #glassweave #qwerty
    04-07-15 09:51 PM
  17. bbinoz's Avatar
    I work as a cellphone retailer and I saw many q10 with this problem. Hardware failure is all I have to say.

    The keyboard was entering letters by only lightly touching the broken keys. Didn't even pressed the key. No "clic"

    Posted via CB10
    Yes, it seems that the Q-10 obviously had double typing issues much worse and more frequently than the Classic.

    I have seen my phone double type the letters 'o', 'a' and 'e'. All of these letters on the keyboard feel exactly the same as all of the others and I cannot get the phone to double type deliberately even if I push the affected letters followed by a space as fast as I can.

    As a phone repair tech, if you had a Q-10 where the keyboard would register an input just by lightly tapping on the key and a replacement of the keyboard resolved the issue - I'm pretty sure you can confidently state that some Q-10s had malfunctioning hardware.

    I don't believe this is the case with the Classic, of course there are going to be some devices that ship with faulty keyboards (like dead batteries, dead screens etc.) but I believe the 'common double typing issue' experienced is a software issue. When a double type occurs, it isn't instant like pressing the key down twice quickly is - the phone seems to hesitate for half a second, almost enough time to think 'oh it's going to double type'. This hesitation has been noted by other Classic owners and really indicates to me that it is software, not hardware. This would also explain why the test of pressing the key over and over followed by the space bar fails to produce a double type issue - the processor is not working as hard when typing a single key followed by a space repeatedly than when typing a full sentence using different words with auto correct and spell check searching for words and looking for incorrect spelling as I type.

    I'm certain that this 'Software Vs Hardware' debate is only going to get more confusing as faulty keyboards begin to appear, but I'm talking about the general problem which seems to affect all Classic owners.

    I don't think the Passport is affected due to increased processing power combined with the fact that Passport users cannot type as quickly as Classic users (no, I'm not trying to start a war - I'm just stating the design of the Classic enables users to type quicker than the larger Passport).

    Storm 2 > Bold 9900 > Classic
    04-07-15 10:04 PM
  18. bbinoz's Avatar
    Obviously there are two different problems here that both result in the same problem.

    Physical Malfunctioning Keyboard (Uncommon)
    This seems to have been a common issue with Q-10 devices and results in a worsening of symptoms over time with individual keys affected. The malfunction can easily be recreated by opening up any app on which to type and pressing the affected key repeatedly until failure. Users report afflicted keys feel different to other keys which function normally.

    Software Issue (All Classics)
    I believe this to be the problem with (dare I say it) all BlackBerry Classic devices. The affected keys all seem to be 'a', 'e', 'i', 'o' and 'u' which just happen to also be vowels and therefore the most common keys used which appear in every word. The user first notices this problem at circa one month from acquisition - the same time the user begins to develop muscle memory and becomes confident that the device is creating an error and not the user thinking he hit the wrong button. The problem cannot be replicated by pressing the button followed by a space repeatedly. The problem gets worse when using certain high performance applications, when running tasks in background, when typing long documents with speed or after not restarting the device after a long period of time. When Battery Saving Mode is enabled and processing power restricted, double typing is more pronounced and common.

    Users who do not:
    - Use their device for typing lengthy emails / documents and with speed.
    - Have enough familiarity with the device keyboard to recognise user error from device error.
    - Run applications in the background.
    - Leave device powered on throughout the night.
    - Frequently use Battery Saving Mode with CPU restrictions on.

    May not ever witness their device double type and claim that there device is not affected.

    Storm 2 > Bold 9900 > Classic
    dan_slack likes this.
    04-07-15 10:38 PM
  19. Billy Bob Jimmy Joe's Avatar
    Did this instance of double typing (the example you referred to above) occur on a BlackBerry Classic or Q-10?

    I understand that the Q-10 had significant problems and many users needed to replace the devices only to find the new device had the same problem. I can understand how if this happened and someone upgraded to the Classic and then witnessed it double type - well I can understand the paranoia and frustration.

    Storm 2 > Bold 9900 > Classic
    On the Classic. I occasionally type slow when I forget what I'm about to type so it has nothing to do with speed.

    Posted via BlackBerry Classic
    04-08-15 12:14 AM
  20. jae hoon's Avatar
    Well, I've had Q10, PP and now the Classic, never had this kind of problem. Is it related to some specific OS leak or version?

    From my Classic
    04-08-15 07:02 AM
  21. Tessoro Desoto's Avatar
    BS you cant type 5 keys per second, be realistic.
    04-09-15 10:26 PM
  22. bbinoz's Avatar
    Just an update on my double typing experience, today I was sending an email and I had open:
    - Bloomberg
    - CrackBerry
    - BlackBerry World
    - BBM
    - Browser with 3 tabs.

    As I typed the email and got really into it (typed quicker and quicker) the letter 'P' double typed followed by the letter 'a' and then 'b'. I closed off the browser and also BBM and continued with my email without any further instances of double typing. Also, I had a very busy day yesterday and sent about 20 emails - I didn't experience any double typing at all.

    I think the above again supports my theory that the double-typing on the Classic is software related and seems to occur when the device is using a lot of CPU performance.

    I have also noticed that sometimes when I open the browser and begin typing an address everything freezes for about 3 seconds and then the letters that I typed all appear in quick succession (as though the phone suddenly remembers everything I just wrote). I've seen my computer do the same thing at times.

    After I finished my email I again did that test of the letters which double typed, I filled up an entire page of each letter followed by the space bar and could not recreate the problem. I'm not going to do this test anymore because I'm probably wearing out the keyboard prematurely lol.
    Last edited by bbinoz; 04-10-15 at 01:33 AM.
    mighthor likes this.
    04-10-15 01:11 AM
  23. bbinoz's Avatar
    BS you cant type 5 keys per second, be realistic.
    Proof: http://imgur.com/9hCJQyL

    153 keystrokes and it was a 30 second test,
    153 / 30 = 5.1

    Just because you can't do something doesn't mean that other people can't as well.

    Storm 2 > Bold 9900 > Classic
    04-10-15 01:18 AM
  24. idssteve's Avatar
    Have yet to experience DT on my Classic. The only time I noticed it on my 9900 was while typing replies here in Crackberry. Had just finished a day of spreadsheet editing with zero errors. If DT were strictly HW issue, seems coincidental that it developed just at break time. YET, swapping in new KB seemed to "fix" it, so... ???

    No signs of DT on my Classic. First time on 9900. We keep box of spare 9900 KB's on break room table for many issues but DT hasn't been one. Till now.
    04-10-15 05:31 AM
  25. thymaster's Avatar
    I totally agree with you on your theory. I've mentioned it before that it only happens on certain apps that exert CPU power and when there is a slight hitch in the OS while typing. The most common is the browser and text messages with long threads that needs to be preloaded before typing. It seems like a combination of CPU being under power and OS lag causing keyboard to register improperly.

    I own a Passport and this problem is being reported in the Passport section around OS 10.3.1 was release. Also it occurs on some touchscreen keys as well on the Passport. I also did a test by going backward to OS 10.3.0 for 3 days and couldn't replicate the problem. Then I updated to OS 10.3.1 again and the problem came back immediately.

    Just an update on my double typing experience, today I was sending an email and I had open:
    - Bloomberg
    - CrackBerry
    - BlackBerry World
    - BBM
    - Browser with 3 tabs.

    As I typed the email and got really into it (typed quicker and quicker) the letter 'P' double typed followed by the letter 'a' and then 'b'. I closed off the browser and also BBM and continued with my email without any further instances of double typing. Also, I had a very busy day yesterday and sent about 20 emails - I didn't experience any double typing at all.

    I think the above again supports my theory that the double-typing on the Classic is software related and seems to occur when the device is using a lot of CPU performance.

    I have also noticed that sometimes when I open the browser and begin typing an address everything freezes for about 3 seconds and then the letters that I typed all appear in quick succession (as though the phone suddenly remembers everything I just wrote). I've seen my computer do the same thing at times.

    After I finished my email I again did that test of the letters which double typed, I filled up an entire page of each letter followed by the space bar and could not recreate the problem. I'm not going to do this test anymore because I'm probably wearing out the keyboard prematurely lol.
    04-10-15 05:41 AM
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