I'm over the Classic, us Q10 users are the real losers here

Funny thing... here in Tokyo.. land of iPhone... many I know are NOT satisfied with their iPhone and looking for change.. although their options limited here..

What that says is NO phone out there has it all!

Everyone has limitations.. too big, too small, boring OS, and so on...

And everyone has different budget also...

Having had virtually every blackberry as well as iPhone I know that no one phone has it all.

So, I work with the one that best meets my most important needs... UNTIL the next greatest product comes along.

Didn't like Q10 at all.. who cares!! As long as it WORKS for YOU!

Chen has new phones planned for 2015 so you can re evaluate your options .. or go to a competing phone... BUT that won't stop the "my phone can't do..."

No phone ever will...

Posted via CB10

It seems like BlackBerry's big mistake is making too many form factors such that users get used to them and they can't upgrade to another same form factor with better specs. Apple did it right. You get one choice (then two) and eventually it'll grow with you. BlackBerry used to do this, but they were criticized for being the same every year. How strange that is.

I wonder if there were threads on the Apple forums when Apple missed their yearly June release for the iPhone and switched it to September? Did Apple users complain that they're expecting June for their upgrade but have no choice now? (Since Apple doesn't announce release dates, it was unknown that September would be the new release schedule.) How do Android users deal with not having a new flagship Android device from some manufacturer every six months?

There won't be new hardware to expect, but there will be new software. I haven't loaded 10.3.1 myself, but it sounds pretty fantastic. Spend no money and get new functionality for free. What's wrong with that?

As the Z30 is not really an upgrade from the Z10, I got a phone which I was interested in trying, but it does not cut it compared to BB10.

Now I got the chance to get an S5 for a good price, so I'll see how it goes.

Too many phones, and not a single one that is what I want.

Originally Posted by kitmo

I understood that the Classic was going to please people who were not the rev'ed up finger swiping users. More the business user--versus the young super charged impatient gotta have it right now types. No offense meant, but I wouldn't have thought that the fast fingered swipers would have bought the phone in the first place.

Agree completely. A few days ago I acted as a 'pre-sales consultant' to a corporate lawyer I work with who has now ordered a Classic (to arrive in January) - he's upgrading from his trusty (but now very ancient) 9700. He never went to a Q10 as the jump to Gestures AND no Toolbelt was too big a step-change for him to feel comfortable with (he's not very techy at all). He's now the guinea pig for the partners at his firm re: upgrading to new BlackBerrys.... if the Classic proves a success for this target audience, I expect they'll be ordering a bundle of them come March/April.

Fellow Q10 user here and I'm in the same boat as the OP. The Q10 is actually my first BlackBerry phone ever and I will say I love the phone. I switched from the iPhone 4 because that phone was so small that I made numerous typos when sending messages. The Q10 is not perfect, but I've truly enjoyed the keyboard. I can't believe how few typos I make anymore. My main issue with the phone is how long it takes to run Google Maps (about 25-30 seconds) and also the lag with opening up webpages with lots of ads, etc... My assumption was that the Passport with the improved CPU and memory would probably load things more quickly and so improve my general experience overall while maintaining a very good keyboard.

I'm on Verizon and I'll be due for an upgrade soon, but I am lost as to where to go now. In all honesty, I really would like to get the Passport but Verizon does not allow that phone on their network. My job requires me to have Verizon so switching to AT&T for the Passport isn't an option. It looks like my options are either Classic or change to iPhone 6. My main problem with the Classic is it feels like I'll just be getting a slightly larger Q10 (with toolbelt). Since the Classic has all the specs of the Q10, I'm very certain the slow Google Maps and also slow loading of webpages (when they have lots of ads) will just continue. I'm sure the toolbelt will be a very cool addition, but it's hard for me to think of committing to a phone which is essentially the same as my old one (with all the same problems) for another two years.

Currently I'm thinking the smartest option for me is to wait and see if BlackBerry might have plans to release a more direct Q10 upgrade phone in 2015. If they don't, then I'll probably just give Apple another chance. Who knows, maybe with the larger form factor typing on an iPhone 6 won't be as bad as the iPhone 4. If I don't like it, I guess I can always just reactivate my Q10 and continue to use it as before.

I do think Chen is doing the right thing by helping retain BlackBerry's diehard customers with the Classic. I'm just not sure what he's doing to retain the new BlackBerry customers who switched to the Q10 a few years ago.

The Classic is to bring those on older devices to BB10. That's it. It's not an upgrade to the Q10.

I would like to think there will be an updated Q10 in the near future. Time will tell, of course.

The future for BlackBerry is in BB10 and future devices using the full touch and Q10 form factors.

emPowered by 

Originally Posted by phantomtech

I can't imagine anyone coming from a Q10 who would like this phone, the trackpad is useless to me on the gesture based OS.

Even for text editing? That's one of the few times I use it, but it's also great when you holding the phone at an awkward angle and need to scroll through messages, or of course if you have gloves on. The new trackpad appears to have functions like quickly jumping to the bottom of the list/page, etc, which seems like it would be a useful feature, and a faster, optional way of doing things (although I don't have one to know for sure).

Originally Posted by phantomtech

everything is so much slower with the toolbelt. It's so much easier and faster to just use gestures.

I'm sure this is what you've personally found to be true, but I would disagree with you. Quickly gliding your thumb over raised sufaces (keys or buttons) then squeezing them at the moment you want an action seems like it would be faster than touch, release (can't glide over the screen) touch, release, touch then swipe in a particular direction which may take longer for some directions depending on how you are holding the phone. It also seems to me it would much quick to do one handed.

Just curious, did you ever own a belt-based phone?

Originally Posted by phantomtech

Some say specs don't matter, but seriously?? A new phone with two year old specs? Of course it matters. This phone is slow as molasses in opening Android apps and even when I open my native Pictures app for example I literally have to stare at a blank screen for about 8-10 seconds until the photos start showing up. Inexcusable. My Passport does NOT have this issue..

Aren't the specs the same as your q10? Do you have these issues on your q10? Of course the Passport doesn't have this because A: it's larger and they can cram more electronics in there B: has a larger batter (because it's larger) to offset the demands off the new electronics and C: it costs more money.

Originally Posted by phantomtech

Basically, I can only see people who upgraded from their 9900 being maybe happy with this..

Or, maybe Q10 users that have been dying for the return of those buttons.

Originally Posted by phantomtech

So where does that leave us Q10 users? Passport is too big for me as a phone, I am not into the whole phablet thing and the Classic is a downgrade in terms of the toolbelt is not needed and the specs suck. I guess back to the huge Passport it is. I thought I would love the classic but I'd rather put up with the Passport's size issue then all the Classic's shortcomings..

I'm confused by this. Compared to the Q10....what were the shortcomings again? Same specs (actually battery is larger than q10), just more options in ways to use the phone.

The Classic and even the Rio are upgrades for BBOS users.....

Not really sure what earlier adopters are suppose to do when their 2-Year Contract come up next year...

BB really needs to take a page from Apple - and start to solidify the phone line up and do good incremental upgrades.

Z50 - a 4.7in high end touchscreen only device with Passport internals and design language.
Classic 2 - with Passport specs

should be next in the hopper...to keep the BB10 faithful...

Originally Posted by leejayh

BB really needs to take a page from Apple - and start to solidify the phone line up and do good incremental upgrades.

Z50 - a 4.7in high end touchscreen only device with Passport internals and design language.
Classic 2 - with Passport specs

should be next in the hopper...to keep the BB10 faithful...

Blackberry exceeds that standard as they are doing it for two different types of phone: keyboard and non-keyboard (as well as keyboard with belt). They don't have the massive resources and money in the bank to bang out multiple new versions of their phone every September like Apple does, but they are doing the best they can. People here complained for a while that KB users weren't getting any attention, then they came out with 2 KB phones and non-KB users complain (and even KB users without a belt). BB has a wider device style base to cater to, and this makes it hard when some people like KBs, some don't, some like KBs but no belt, etc. etc.

The classic was really for bb7 users to upgrade to the bb10 OS. So it's basically a crappy blackberry phone. The same type phone which made people leave blackberry years ago for other platform. The classic. A Q10 with a track pad lol. Why would anyone downgrade or waste money on this phone.

I believe the classic is going to be the only model with a tool belt, it's supposed to get over guys from bb7 bridge them to bb10, I don't think they would grasp the whole gesture concept without actually using the phone, and not having the tool belt they are used to, actually stopped them from migrating.

Once all are on board the tool belt will die. The passports touch "pad" could be used exactly like the tool belt if BlackBerry codes it that way, and will be a brilliant replacement.

The next keyboard device, I believe will be the Q10 upgrade, slightly larger screen, a touch 4 line keyboard, and higher specs.

Passport Powered

Originally Posted by mikedolo

The classic was really for bb7 users to upgrade to the bb10 OS. So it's a basically a crappy blackberry phone. The same phone which made people leave blackberry years ago for other platflams. The classic. Why would anyone downgrade to this phone.

Uh, what? Please get your facts straight.

How is it the same phone as a (insert any BBOS phone here) when it runs BB10? The Classic is the same phone that BlackBerry already made...but with added functionality. You have an option to stick with a Q10 if you like. It's only a downgrade from a Passport spec-wise, which is....let's face it.....and odd phone that's a little out of the box and doesn't work for everyone.

Originally Posted by CrackberryQ

I believe the classic is going to be the only model with a tool belt, it's supposed to get over guys from bb7 bridge them to bb10, I don't think they would grasp the whole gesture concept without actually using the phone, and not having the tool belt they are used to, actually stopped them from migrating.

Once all are on board the tool belt will die. The passports touch "pad" could be used exactly like the tool belt if BlackBerry codes it that way, and will be a brilliant replacement.

The next keyboard device, I believe will be the Q10 upgrade, slightly larger screen, a touch 4 line keyboard, and higher specs.

Passport Powered

Do you think that all BlackBerry users that still have a 9900 have never, ever experienced a BB10 phone? Perhaps they are fine with gestures but also don't want to be a slave to them for fast, one handed operations. You act as if those holdouts are too stupid or cranky to figure it out. Many may have figured it out in 2 seconds, and realized it was too slow and their current phone just worked better for them.

And, there is literally one one gesture that is required....the "go home" gesture. Everything else can be done with either an on-screen button push or a gesture. The hold outs want a belt.....not because they don't like that one single go-home gesture requirement.....but becasue they want to keep all the advantages of speedy navigation and use with those extra buttons.

Your logic seems to be that they will sell lots of belt phones, it will be a success getting lots of 9900 users to switch, then they immediately alienate those people the next time around. Seems a bit counter-intuitive to find a way to get people to buy your product, and then take it away from them.

Originally Posted by LordCrankypants

The Classic wasn't designed for existing BB10 users. It was designed to bring over the holdout Legacy users to BB10. Once you get that through your head, it makes sense that they did what they did. If specs mattered to legacy users, they would have switched to something else long ago. Price is what matters.......

JB



Posted internationally thanks to my Passport

This guy hit the nail on the head!.....Its exactly this...nothing more nothing less!

Originally Posted by redlightblinking

Even for text editing? That's one of the few times I use it, but it's also great when you holding the phone at an awkward angle and need to scroll through messages, or of course if you have gloves on. The new trackpad appears to have functions like quickly jumping to the bottom of the list/page, etc, which seems like it would be a useful feature, and a faster, optional way of doing things (although I don't have one to know for sure).

I guess that will be the only plus for the trackpad, text editing. But after using the Q10 for nearly two years I have gotten used to the new way of text editing, the same way 99.9% of the world has.

Originally Posted by redlightblinking

I'm sure this is what you've personally found to be true, but I would disagree with you. Quickly gliding your thumb over raised sufaces (keys or buttons) then squeezing them at the moment you want an action seems like it would be faster than touch, release (can't glide over the screen) touch, release, touch then swipe in a particular direction which may take longer for some directions depending on how you are holding the phone. It also seems to me it would much quick to do one handed.

Just curious, did you ever own a belt-based phone?

I owned the Tour 9630 in the good 'ole days and loved it but just because OS6 was designed with the toolbelt in mind. That is what brought me to the Q10 from my iPhone the day it was released. OS10 was strictly designed for touch and gestures and the toolbelt just gets in the way of existing OS10 users who have gotten used to the new platform.

Originally Posted by redlightblinking

Aren't the specs the same as your q10? Do you have these issues on your q10? Of course the Passport doesn't have this because A: it's larger and they can cram more electronics in there B: has a larger batter (because it's larger) to offset the demands off the new electronics and C: it costs more money.

My Q10 was never speedy with sideloads, it was always slow. Even on native apps, like pictures or App world there was irritable lag. So now when I have already used a Passport and seen how a phone in this day and age should work the Q10 seems even slower.

I've been told that was my mistake, to upgrade to a Passport before trying the Classic. But honestly, that sound like fanboy talk to me. Should I cover my eyes and never look whats out there so I will stay happy with my old device? Ridiculous.

Originally Posted by redlightblinking

Or, maybe Q10 users that have been dying for the return of those buttons.

Possibly but highly doubtful, at least in my view. Any Q10 user for over a year has already gotten used to the gestures and has no need for it. It is just a step back in my view.

Originally Posted by redlightblinking

I'm confused by this. Compared to the Q10....what were the shortcomings again? Same specs (actually battery is larger than q10), just more options in ways to use the phone.

As I said before, the Q10 shortcomings were that it was not a speedy phone especially on 10.3.1, I always had some lag issues even with native apps. The Passport with better processor doesn't have this issue. Is it so wrong to want to have upgraded specs and not a new phone with two year old insides?

I guess it is what it is, the Classic was not meant for existing OS10 users, it was purely a phone for legacy users, Q10'ers looking for a worthy upgrade will have to wait and see what Blackberry is cooking up for the future.

Originally Posted by Steelsheen

im dead serious. what is it about my post that you beg ignorance on?

LOL, nah man, just pretend I didn't say anything then, I apologize. :-)

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Originally Posted by phantomtech

I guess that will be the only plus for the trackpad, text editing. But after using the Q10 for nearly two years I have gotten used to the new way of text editing, the same way 99.9% of the world has.

There is a difference between "it's a plus" and "I've gotten used to it".

And the .1% of the world that you speculated about is what BB is trying to get back, because that .1% makes up a MUCH larger percentage of BB users. Last year 9900 sales were higher than BB10. So, that .1% is kind of important.

Originally Posted by phantomtech

I owned the Tour 9630 in the good 'ole days and loved it but just because OS6 was designed with the toolbelt in mind. That is what brought me to the Q10 from my iPhone the day it was released. OS10 was strictly designed for touch and gestures and the toolbelt just gets in the way of existing OS10 users who have gotten used to the new platform.

No phone is "strictly designed' for touch and gestures any more than no phone is strictly designed for a physical Keyboard.

Clearly, you can use other methods to do the same things otherwise the Classic wouldn't exist.

Some may say it gets in the way, some may say it offers them faster ways to do things, even you have "gotten used to the platform".

Originally Posted by phantomtech

My Q10 was never speedy with sideloads, it was always slow. Even on native apps, like pictures or App world there was irritable lag. So now when I have already used a Passport and seen how a phone in this day and age should work the Q10 seems even slower.

Soooo..........then you just confirmed that the Classic is not a downgrade from the Q10. It's the same. You're comparing it only to the monster Passport, that.....as I said before....isn't for everyone. You can't fit that kind of battery in a Q10 sized phone anyway.

Originally Posted by phantomtech

I've been told that was my mistake, to upgrade to a Passport before trying the Classic. But honestly, that sound like fanboy talk to me. Should I cover my eyes and never look whats out there so I will stay happy with my old device? Ridiculous.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. I didn't say anything about which phone you upgrade to, or covering your eyes, etc.

Originally Posted by phantomtech

Possibly but highly doubtful, at least in my view. Any Q10 user for over a year has already gotten used to the gestures and has no need for it. It is just a step back in my view.

Again....in YOUR view. You make huge speculative leaps about "any Q10 user" with no actual research. My wife is one of those and would love the buttons that I have. So....I've already proven you wrong with one single example. Surely, there must be more. Surely, you will find them here on CB.

Originally Posted by phantomtech

As I said before, the Q10 shortcomings were that it was not a speedy phone especially on 10.3.1, I always had some lag issues even with native apps. The Passport with better processor doesn't have this issue. Is it so wrong to want to have upgraded specs and not a new phone with two year old insides?

Of course its not wrong to want that. You can have a Passport if you like. But the Classic was designed with size and budget limitations.

Sooooo.....you're changing the subject now from complaining about the Classic to complaining about the Q10? And your complaint is: A 2 year old compact phone is slower than a massive, new phone?

Stop the presses.

I understand that BlackBerry wants to address the Enterprise crowd, I get that, but it doesn't appear from where I sit that either the PP or the Classic are or will be kick *** devices as they were hoped to be.

Q: Why then does BlackBerry continue to make mediocre devices instead of slab devices with over-the-top specs for the millions of other than enterprise users who would be interested in such a device?

A: Because they continue to build devices based on what BlackBerry deems to be what the market needs and not what the market wants.

*Sigh* If it were me making the decisions I would showcase the hell out of BB10 but until that we know best mentality changes at HQ they will continue to make mediocre devices for special interest groups that will not sell.

I am sorry to say something like this, but wasn't the CLASSIC ONLY targeting the BBOS crowd that wont switch due to no tool belt? The specs? If this phone is targeting professionals (BBOS people) then the specs are above and beyond what they are coming from.

I am dumbfounded by how people are casually buying phones that are not intended to for their demographic. But I do understand curiosity and wanting to play with whats NEW. But can you really be outraged over something that was your own fault for buying, knowing what it already is?

I love my Q10, it is much more than I need in the spec department, I have three (3) emails accounts in the hub and damn near abuse the abilities of BBM (due to work constantly asking for a glympse and in-field pictures) and even though I agree with most about the sticker packs, I find myself enjoying them. I do keep a Z10 just for games with no service hooked up (use Hotspot from Q10) on the phone to pass the time while waiting.

Originally Posted by blackburberry

I understand that BlackBerry wants to address the Enterprise crowd, I get that, but it doesn't appear from where I sit that either the PP or the Classic are or will be kick *** devices as they were hoped to be.

Q: Why then does BlackBerry continue to make mediocre devices instead of slab devices with over-the-top specs for the millions of other than enterprise users who would be interested in such a device?

A: Because they continue to build devices based on what BlackBerry deems to be what the market needs and not what the market wants.

*Sigh* If it were me making the decisions I would showcase the hell out of BB10 but until that we know best mentality changes at HQ they will continue to make mediocre devices for special interest groups that will not sell.

Thanks for good chuckle.

Lets take another peek at this.....

....Q: Why then does BlackBerry continue to make mediocre devices instead of slab devices with over-the-top specs for the millions of other than enterprise users who would be interested in such a device? ......

Because they already made slab devices to be like the "everyone else" crowd and people didn't care. Because the best selling phones don't have over the top specs because people don't care about them. The average Iphone user has no idea what specs are in the phone and never consider that. Tech junkies buy phones purely on numbers, not on emotion, which is what the majority of users use to make purchases.

....A: Because they continue to build devices based on what BlackBerry deems to be what the market needs and not what the market wants......

Which market are you talking about? The Enterprise market? The professionals market? Because those people are speaking loud and clear about what they want AND what they need.

It seems that Apple tells people what they "need" more than any company I've ever seen. According to Apple, I "need" lots of apps, I "need" to sing to my phone, I "need" have my phone be my friend and tell me a story.

Originally Posted by blackburberry

......*Sigh* If it were me making the decisions I would showcase the hell out of BB10 but until that we know best mentality changes at HQ they will continue to make mediocre devices for special interest groups that will not sell.

Would you please provide one example that illustrates how BB is displaying a "we know best mentality" and differentiate that between how Apple is already doing it?

Also, what is the "special interest group" you speak of? Because people who care about specs are a special interest group.

Thanks for good chuckle.

You are more than welcome.

Because they already made slab devices to be like the "everyone else" crowd and people didn't care.

Those examples were not top tier devices as compared to what they were up against. BB backed off on the specs.

Tech junkies buy phones purely on numbers, not on emotion, which is what the majority of users use to make purchases.

Thank YOU for the good chuckle in return. You have just made my point. What is BB's problem not wanting to serve that market? The answer lies in my original post.


Which market are you talking about? The Enterprise market? The professionals market? Because those people are speaking loud and clear about what they want AND what they need.

Well, the professional and / or enterprise market should be served but they are puny compared to the "everyone else" market where the real money is. What IT professional is going to turn down a kickass phone for their network clients if it does as advertised and priced right?

Originally Posted by blackburberry

Thanks for good chuckle.

Those examples were not top tier devices as compared to what they were up against. BB backed off on the specs.[I]

There is not a single shred of evidence that the first round of BB10 devices (Z10 and Q10) failed because people "rejected their specs". They failed because
A: They didn't market them at all.....marketing was plain horrible.
B: They were released with lots of OS short comings that has taken them 2 years to fix (and still working on it)
C: They had hardly any apps. Apps. Apps. Apps.
D: They were the worst of both worlds: didn't' have the advantages of apps, and didn't' have anything the BB power users liked.

Originally Posted by blackburberry

Thank YOU for the good chuckle in return. You have just made my point. What is BB's problem not wanting to serve that market? The answer lies in my original post.

If you're going to say that I just "made your point", you might want to actually say what that was or how I said it for you.

Originally Posted by blackburberry

Well, the professional and / or enterprise market should be served but they are puny compared to the "everyone else" market where the real money is.

YOU DON'T THINK BB KNOWS THIS? You can only have so many companies making the same product. They TRIED that. Their reputation in that world of fickle sheep is now horrible. They are going back to the base of people they had to begin with....the people that were the original smart phone users to begin with. The rest will come around over time if the product keeps getting better.

Originally Posted by blackburberry

[. What IT professional is going to turn down a kickass phone for their network clients if it does as advertised and priced right?

Not sure I understand your question. "kickass" is a completely relative term. To an IT professional, a "kickass' phone may be the most secure, with the most control from an IT perspective, with the highest level of power-user acceptance. Not necessarily the one that can play Flappy Birds with the highest frame rate.

Originally Posted by redlightblinking

There is not a single shred of evidence that the first round of BB10 devices (Z10 and Q10) failed because people "rejected their specs". They failed because
A: They didn't market them at all.....marketing was plain horrible.
B: They were released with lots of OS short comings that has taken them 2 years to fix (and still working on it)
C: They had hardly any apps. Apps. Apps. Apps.
D: They were the worst of both worlds: didn't' have the advantages of apps, and didn't' have anything the BB power users liked.





If you're going to say that I just "made your point", you might want to actually say what that was or how I said it for you.




YOU DON'T THINK BB KNOWS THIS? You can only have so many companies making the same product. They TRIED that. Their reputation in that world of fickle sheep is now horrible. They are going back to the base of people they had to begin with....the people that were the original smart phone users to begin with. The rest will come around over time if the product keeps getting better.



Not sure I understand your question. "kickass" is a completely relative term. To an IT professional, a "kickass' phone may be the most secure, with the most control from an IT perspective, with the highest level of power-user acceptance. Not necessarily the one that can play Flappy Birds with the highest frame rate.

Have a great day.

Still holding to my q10, the only thing I would wanna change is the battery.

Posted via CB10