05-08-15 09:40 PM
59 123
tools
  1. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    I work for a large Canadian municipality as a wireless / BES admin. I'm not blowing smoke I know my users and my numbers...its what I do.

    Posted via CB10 app and BlackBerry Passport 
    This "large Canadian municipality" wouldnt happen to be Waterloo, would it?
    05-05-15 10:59 PM
  2. Ment's Avatar
    There were many reports on CrackBerry.com from people wanting to buy the devices few stores had stock, and fewer had devices on display and few to none had staff that talk about them in a positive or informative way (nothing new there).

    There is an irony here: an innovative device requires a hands-on trial for a customer to make a purchase decision: The Passport and Classic are not just another minor iteration on the familiar Android or iOS slab.

    Carriers are wary and don't stock the channel properly, so no one can see, nevermind buy, the device.

    Buying an iPhone sight unseen is not a huge risk: people know what to expect (although I bet there were a few 6+ returns because some may find it too large in reality) but if carrier stores understock the device, it's a bit sadistic to craft guidance about startlingly low sell through. That's the 'bunk' I was referring to, and I thought a credible analyst had written something to that effect.
    In terms of guidance does it matter if the fault lies with Blackberry or the carrier? Blackberry has a confidence problem with American carriers, even when they can get a carrier to launch a device, individual stores can't or won't get stock, store reps are blissfully in the Apple/Samsung embrace and are unaware of the product and potential sales are not realized affecting quarterly revenue. Whatever role US devices should have in the overall percentage of BB10 world sales isn't happening pushing the 10M annual goal further off in the horizon, thats not bunk thats reality straight from the ER.
    andy957 likes this.
    05-06-15 12:03 AM
  3. RyanGermann's Avatar
    In terms of guidance does it matter if the fault lies with Blackberry or the carrier? Blackberry has a confidence problem with American carriers, even when they can get a carrier to launch a device, individual stores can't or won't get stock, store reps are blissfully in the Apple/Samsung embrace and are unaware of the product and potential sales are not realized affecting quarterly revenue. Whatever role US devices should have in the overall percentage of BB10 world sales isn't happening pushing the 10M annual goal further off in the horizon, thats not bunk thats reality straight from the ER.
    Fair enough, but if the insinuation of the report is that the market appeal for the devices isn't there (in contrast to other regions where the Classic and Passport launched relatively successfully) when it may or may not be, that can't be determined if the vendors limit availability of the device.

    Having customers want to get their hands on your product but them not being able to because of "channel issues" is a better problem to have than having devices available and no one wanting them... if the MS report didn't say "but most carrier stores did very little to support the device launch and most stores didn't have stock... which is a serious problem that BlackBerry has to resolve / has no hope of resolving"... but they don't put it that way: that's a nuance that the types of statements from MS just gloss over in service to the shorts, I guess... it's bizarre how these analysts statements are considered universally as anything OTHER than completely biased when the analysis techniques and conclusions stated would get a failing grade in elementary school remedial science.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 05-06-15 at 01:21 AM.
    05-06-15 12:48 AM
  4. curves2000's Avatar
    Blackberry has an accounting method where they count the sale of a device once it's sold to end users. In Blackberry's case this occurs once the PIN lights up as active and stays active for a specific period time.

    Since this is largely a corporate device and companies generally transition to newer technology on a slower basis than consumers it's still a little early.

    If we don't seem some decent uptick in Blackberry's device sales in the 2nd and 3rd quarters it's safe to assume the Classic, Passport and Leap aren't selling great.

    Blackberry has pretty much cleared out almost all of its previous BB10 and BB7 inventory such as 9900, Q10, Z10 etc. Only newer inventory that has positive margin is currently being sold so hopefully the device business improves so we get to see lots of good stuff for the future. I can't even fathom what I would have to do if I needed to buy something other than a physical keyboard BB!

    Posted via CB10
    05-06-15 01:06 AM
  5. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    2-1 vs Iphone? Really? That is hard to believe unless your a store with more BlackBerry than IPh - which is even harder to believe

    Posted via CB10
    What he meant was for every 20,000 IPhones, 1 BB10 phone is sold
    05-06-15 01:35 AM
  6. johnnydoesai's Avatar
    All in all, I still want a Classic 2

    Come on BlackBerry! Give us some leaks! XD

    Posted via CB10
    05-06-15 01:44 AM
  7. rotaryguy's Avatar
    For what its worth ... My Verizon rep laughed when I bought my classic... He said that mine was the first one he had sold. He then added "let me know how you like it"..... He was not concerned with even learning about the device and trying to market it.
    When I bought my Classic I called ahead to the local Verizon store to verify stock. Online they said there were two in stock. The rep on the phone immediately said "No we don't stock any Blackberries" to which I replied "Online it says you have two in stock". He put me on hold stating "let me go check the back". A few minutes later he came back with "I actually have 4 here, 2 camera and 2 non-camera" I asked him to hold a camera version and proceeded to the store.

    Once I arrived he tried to get me on a new contract and I told him I was buying it at retail. His face looked surprised as he rang me up. He asked why I was going from an iPhone 6 to a BlackBerry and I said I needed something more secure and better suited for business use. The hub was a much better way to work with email accounts and it was capable enough to run business related apps even if they were Android based. Needless to say by the time I was walking out that rep was curious enough that he was playing with the store demo model which curiously was positioned right between the iphones and the sales counter.


    Verizon Classic / 10.3.2.500
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    05-06-15 06:36 AM
  8. martinjdub's Avatar
    ...i'm much much farther west than waterloo.


    Posted via CB10 app and BlackBerry Passport 
    Last edited by martinjdub; 05-06-15 at 01:57 PM.
    05-06-15 01:37 PM
  9. andy957's Avatar
    When I bought my Classic I called ahead to the local Verizon store to verify stock. Online they said there were two in stock. The rep on the phone immediately said "No we don't stock any Blackberries" to which I replied "Online it says you have two in stock". He put me on hold stating "let me go check the back". A few minutes later he came back with "I actually have 4 here, 2 camera and 2 non-camera" I asked him to hold a camera version and proceeded to the store.

    Once I arrived he tried to get me on a new contract and I told him I was buying it at retail. His face looked surprised as he rang me up. He asked why I was going from an iPhone 6 to a BlackBerry and I said I needed something more secure and better suited for business use. The hub was a much better way to work with email accounts and it was capable enough to run business related apps even if they were Android based. Needless to say by the time I was walking out that rep was curious enough that he was playing with the store demo model which curiously was positioned right between the iphones and the sales counter.


    Verizon Classic / 10.3.2.500
    Sorry what is a non-camera Classic?
    05-06-15 02:44 PM
  10. kvndoom's Avatar
    Sorry what is a non-camera Classic?
    The phone I'm typing this reply from.

    BRING BACK AUDIO BOOST! -Posted from BlackBerry Classic
    05-06-15 02:50 PM
  11. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    What country/market are the 2-1 and 4-1 ratios from? Where in the world is BlackBerry that close to Apple in sales performance?
    Parts of Canada for one. This article is almost a year old but places BlackBerry ahead of Apple in Toronto (Think Bay Street, the Canadian Wall Street, lol). I don't know if those numbers have held since the introduction of the iPhone 6 mind you. Also in the article it shows an infographic and iPhone is more than 2-1 over BlackBerry in Vancouver while in Montreal it's non-existent so I trust the source.

    Believe It or Not, BlackBerry is Actually Outselling the iPhone in Toronto ? but Nowhere Else - Techvibes.com
    05-06-15 05:45 PM
  12. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    Parts of Canada for one. This article is almost a year old but places BlackBerry ahead of Apple in Toronto (Think Bay Street, the Canadian Wall Street, lol). I don't know if those numbers have held since the introduction of the iPhone 6 mind you. Also in the article it shows an infographic and iPhone is more than 2-1 over BlackBerry in Vancouver while in Montreal it's non-existent so I trust the source.

    Believe It or Not, BlackBerry is Actually Outselling the iPhone in Toronto ? but Nowhere Else - Techvibes.com
    Lol, good find! But yeah, Id like to see a similar story with 2015 data. I think that the iPhone 6 and 6+ may have moved the numbers a bit.
    anon(9353145) likes this.
    05-06-15 05:56 PM
  13. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Lol, good find! But yeah, I’d like to see a similar story with 2015 data. I think that the iPhone 6 and 6+ may have moved the numbers a bit.
    Oh, I think probably. Anecdotally I've seen many iPhone 6 and 6+ phones around the area, and I'm not really someone who looks at people's phones on a regular basis. At the same time I've seen about five other Passports (they're hard not to notice, lol). I've also seen a lot of Z30's over the past year - the distinctive chin makes them easy to spot.

    I have a lot of friends with iPhones (I also own an iPhone 6) and I'm not surprised that Apple did well by upsizing the phone. Ironically Android created the phablet market but Apple is definitely cashing in on the trend. ALL of my friends upgraded whether from a 4 or 5 series phone almost immediately.

    And to their credit, a lot of them have responded favourably to my Passport and several have complimented me on it. Which convinces me that BlackBerry's biggest problem is consumer perception more than anything else.
    05-06-15 06:03 PM
  14. WES51's Avatar
    ...i'm much much farther west than waterloo.
    Like West Waterloo?
    Soapm and eyesopen1111 like this.
    05-06-15 10:00 PM
  15. Trauma Surgeon's Avatar
    I agree. I'm loooking for a Q10 upgrade, not Q10 with a toolbelt, lol.

    My Q10 turns two today! going strong besides screen burn and a dying backlight on keyboard (or dirty)

    Posted via BlackBerry Q10 Smartphone
    Here endeth the lesson!


    Posted via CB10
    05-07-15 09:34 AM
  16. stefanbechen's Avatar
    Seeing more and more Classics in business lounges, airports etc.
    Ramping up slowly.

    Passport doesn't appear often. I saw two in the last 4 weeks and I am traveling a lot.

    FWIW

     Posted via CB10 from my Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2576
    05-07-15 09:50 AM
  17. ATFC's Avatar
    Parts of Canada for one. This article is almost a year old but places BlackBerry ahead of Apple in Toronto (Think Bay Street, the Canadian Wall Street, lol). I don't know if those numbers have held since the introduction of the iPhone 6 mind you. Also in the article it shows an infographic and iPhone is more than 2-1 over BlackBerry in Vancouver while in Montreal it's non-existent so I trust the source.

    Believe It or Not, BlackBerry is Actually Outselling the iPhone in Toronto ? but Nowhere Else - Techvibes.com
    For some odd reason, there is something very fishy with this. I go to Toronto a lot and I am very certain I hardly ever saw anyone with a BlackBerry last year.
    Is this some major corporations bulk buying BlackBerries to be distributed in their NA offices or something that skews the data. Where did those handsets go?

    In Vancouver, I would think even 5% is an overestimate. Of course I can only tell about the consumer market.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    andy957 and eyesopen1111 like this.
    05-07-15 10:56 AM
  18. SunshineStateFlyer's Avatar
    Seeing more and more Classics in business lounges, airports etc.
    Ramping up slowly.

    Passport doesn't appear often. I saw two in the last 4 weeks and I am traveling a lot.

    FWIW

     Posted via CB10 from my Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2576
    That's also an observation that I have made. I see a lot of Q10 and 9900 devices and recently some more Classics. I have barely seen any Passport, maybe two or three in total.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-15 10:58 AM
  19. andy957's Avatar
    For some odd reason, there is something very fishy with this. I go to Toronto a lot and I am very certain I hardly ever saw anyone with a BlackBerry last year.
    Is this some major corporations bulk buying BlackBerries to be distributed in their NA offices or something that skews the data. Where did those handsets go?

    In Vancouver, I would think even 5% is an overestimate. Of course I can only tell about the consumer market.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    I live in Toronto and I also rarely see any BB devices anymore. Who knows, maybe the Leap will change that a little?
    05-07-15 10:58 AM
  20. kenzo_44's Avatar
    T-Mobile picked it up so...

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-15 11:08 AM
  21. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    For some odd reason, there is something very fishy with this. I go to Toronto a lot and I am very certain I hardly ever saw anyone with a BlackBerry last year.
    Is this some major corporations bulk buying BlackBerries to be distributed in their NA offices or something that skews the data. Where did those handsets go?

    In Vancouver, I would think even 5% is an overestimate. Of course I can only tell about the consumer market.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    I'd definitely say it's a corporate boost. There's Bay Street, Queen's Park and lots of regulated industries running out of the city like Insurance companies for example. My niece works in insurance and picked up a Z10 - she had the choice of BlackBerry or iPhone but picked BlackBerry for work (her home phone is an iPhone).
    05-07-15 06:13 PM
  22. ATFC's Avatar
    Seeing more and more Classics in business lounges, airports etc.
    Ramping up slowly.

    Passport doesn't appear often. I saw two in the last 4 weeks and I am traveling a lot.

    FWIW

     Posted via CB10 from my Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2576
    Sensible, Passport is just too wide to carry for most uses unless the person use it as his only mobile device.
    I see much more Pre-BB10 devices with iPhone or with a tablet though.

    I do think BlackBerry got it wrong with Passport, and should have jacked up Classic and makes it the flagship instead. People really need big screen mostly for media consumptions and not productivity (which the validity in wider=more productive itself is questionable). The majority of the users BlackBerry tried to target with Passport really use the device for short emails and IMs, and reading documents on a phone is just a rare use but even then people who need to read documents in a pinch just don't care about whether or not it needs to be zoomed because they will do most of the stuff on a computer. The premise of the device is just unrealistic, reading spreadsheets, e.g., I really can't imagine how useful it is to prepare important numerical data on the go or who would do that, even the most unprepared person would know this is just a bad idea.

    Even tablets have not been successful in this, I don't understand why BB think Passport would.


    The Classic just had much more potential as a business device: one-handed use, portability, quick precise scrolling, exiting and navigating without flicking the screen, and four row QWERTY. Sadly, when Classic 2 comes around, it probably comes with Passport's specs which will be extremely outdated by then.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    05-07-15 09:09 PM
  23. scrannel's Avatar
    T-Mobile picked it up so...

    Posted via CB10
    Yes, T-mo back in the BBerry Biz with the classic. Great to see.
    eyesopen1111 likes this.
    05-07-15 09:37 PM
  24. BlackberryAtQuadra's Avatar
    What country/market are the 2-1 and 4-1 ratios from? Where in the world is BlackBerry that close to Apple in sales performance?
    Nowhere BlackBerry out sales Android, but lots of places on the planet where BlackBerry out sales Apple. In the USA and UK Apple rules but else where not really.

    Posted via CB10
    05-08-15 01:18 AM
  25. SunshineStateFlyer's Avatar
    Nowhere BlackBerry out sales Android, but lots of places on the planet where BlackBerry out sales Apple. In the USA and UK Apple rules but else where not really.

    Posted via CB10
    Tell me just one country in the developed world where BlackBerry outsells the iPhone. I agree that there are countries where Apple isn't doing as great as in other regions but even in the markets where BlackBerry is somewhat successful like UAE or Indonesia they have fallen more and more behind the competition.

    Posted via CB10
    05-08-15 03:25 AM
59 123

Similar Threads

  1. Is it worth fixing
    By csteinacher in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-06-15, 02:46 PM
  2. WWE + UFC Fans: This is where you want to be!
    By bustedopen@yahoo.com in forum Discover BBM Channels
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-06-15, 07:18 AM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-05-15, 09:11 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-05-15, 05:14 AM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-05-15, 05:00 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD