01-10-16 07:01 AM
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  1. idssteve's Avatar
    A fundamental question that must be asked, AND answered, when considering marketing a product or service is: "...what market are we targeting?". If the market target of the Q10 was legacy users, it failed. Utterly. Why was that? IMO, BBRY/QNX failed to comprehend WHY BlackBerry users liked using BlackBerrys. We weren't JUST using the PKB for typing. We appreciated the efficient precision PKB shortcuts AND toolbelt leveraged for navigating an intuitive User Interface. It's NOT just "familiarity", as the condescending "glass crowd" likes to simplistically dream. It's that some of us have found that ToolBelt & PKB are SUPERIOR to Glass slabs for UX navigation. A superiority that has already created a niche. No "Apple sized" numbers there but niche markets CAN leverage their loyal followers into an effective "free sales force".

    Our Classics have made positive movement in that direction. Classic 2, what ever its OS, needs to continue that trend.
    wilber1 and slagman5 like this.
    10-31-15 09:26 AM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    A fundamental question that must be asked, AND answered, when considering marketing a product or service is: "...what market are we targeting?". If the market target of the Q10 was legacy users, it failed. Utterly. Why was that? IMO, BBRY/QNX failed to comprehend WHY BlackBerry users liked using BlackBerrys. We weren't JUST using the PKB for typing. We appreciated the efficient precision PKB shortcuts AND toolbelt leveraged for navigating an intuitive User Interface. It's NOT just "familiarity", as the condescending "glass crowd" likes to simplistically dream. It's that some of us have found that ToolBelt & PKB are SUPERIOR to Glass slabs for UX navigation. A superiority that has already created a niche. No "Apple sized" numbers there but niche markets CAN leverage their loyal followers into an effective "free sales force".

    Our Classics have made positive movement in that direction. Classic 2, what ever its OS, needs to continue that trend.
    I think the Q10 might have succeeded if it did not have the DT issue and if they would have had a 4:3 screen instead of a square screen. The phone would have been just as narrow but a tad taller yet the screen would have been far bit larger. My theory is that a trackpad etc is a requirement for a screen the size of the Q10.

    Some people do like touch screens but they are so few as to not be a viable market.

    Back to your premise. I suspect that if there is any new PKB phones made by BlackBerry it will run Android and would use the same type of keyboard that the PRIV uses. Personally, I think they should ditch the square screen and make a narrower taller Passport but with the PRIV keyboard.

    I think that because there is no trackpad on the PRIV but rather the capacitive keyboard, we are unlikely going to see another device with a trackpad.

    I would like to have seen a trackpad on an all touch device used as a home key but it is very unlikely to happen.

    Posted via CB10
    10-31-15 10:06 AM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    I think the Q10 might have succeeded if it did not have the DT issue and if they would have had a 4:3 screen instead of a square screen. The phone would have been just as narrow but a tad taller yet the screen would have been far bit larger. My theory is that a trackpad etc is a requirement for a screen the size of the Q10.

    Some people do like touch screens but they are so few as to not be a viable market.

    Back to your premise. I suspect that if there is any new PKB phones made by BlackBerry it will run Android and would use the same type of keyboard that the PRIV uses. Personally, I think they should ditch the square screen and make a narrower taller Passport but with the PRIV keyboard.

    I think that because there is no trackpad on the PRIV but rather the capacitive keyboard, we are unlikely going to see another device with a trackpad.

    I would like to have seen a trackpad on an all touch device used as a home key but it is very unlikely to happen.

    Posted via CB10

    An ergonomic (narrower) passport could target a valuable segment. Especially if provided with "bragging rights" specs to attract Sammy market. Who wouldn't want a slice of SamApple? The trick is to interest SamApplers in some BlackBerry pie. Lol.

    Apple's success, in part, was the short learning curve their UX provided "newbies". BB10 does not provide an intuitively short curve, IMO. Till they find the formula for doing that, BB can lean on their legacy niche for life support. IF they properly identify and cultivate that niche.

    Passport's "track" tech is a vast improvement over ANYthing the Q ever offered. It's still no substitute for toolbelt. It's just too nice to be able to point and THEN click. It's too nice to reliably end a call with an "End" key. Legacy niche has already proven it will reject ANYthing lacking toolbelt. If BB abandons toolbelt again, at least a few of us would rather abandon them rather than be coerced into BB's idea of Glass UX. Others do glass better.

    BB's decision will need to be if, or when, to abandon their niche. I would argue in favor of proving viability of any new markets BEFORE abandoning their existing ones. But they have a history of doubling down on their mistakes so... Repeating the q10 fiasco might be just what they do. ?? If they play it right, Chen will earn his compensation.
    10-31-15 12:19 PM
  4. slagman5's Avatar
    I think the Q10 might have succeeded if it did not have the DT issue and if they would have had a 4:3 screen instead of a square screen. The phone would have been just as narrow but a tad taller yet the screen would have been far bit larger. My theory is that a trackpad etc is a requirement for a screen the size of the Q10.

    Some people do like touch screens but they are so few as to not be a viable market.

    Back to your premise. I suspect that if there is any new PKB phones made by BlackBerry it will run Android and would use the same type of keyboard that the PRIV uses. Personally, I think they should ditch the square screen and make a narrower taller Passport but with the PRIV keyboard.

    I think that because there is no trackpad on the PRIV but rather the capacitive keyboard, we are unlikely going to see another device with a trackpad.

    I would like to have seen a trackpad on an all touch device used as a home key but it is very unlikely to happen.

    Posted via CB10
    I disagree, having a taller screen just makes it even harder to use one-handed. The thing I absolutely hated about the Q10 was the loss of the toolbelt... A capacitive keyboard is a neat idea, in fact, I thought about it years before the Passport was even talked about, but in practicality, it's not that great, since I rest my fingers on the keyboard a lot, often have two fingers on it at the same time with no intention to change the zoom, just normal typing behavior. So in order for it to be used as a trackpad, something needs to "activate" it because staying in that mode will result in a lot of unintended scrolling and movements of the cursor while typing. In the Passport you had to double tap on it. The track pad is always active and you can switch back and forth between typing and scrolling with no unnecessary tapping or whatever... Please don't fall for the "newer has to be better" gimmick because it's not always the case. And no, I'm no tech dinosaur, I'm probably the 2nd techiest person in my circle of friends. I look into a lot of possible future tech and am often a fairly early adopter. I was watching google's mobile OS long before it was named Android, but ultimately wasn't impressed with it, which is why I didn't make the switch. As cool as the gimmicky features are in a lot of phones, nothing beats the pure productivity provided by a pkb and a toolbelt...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    10-31-15 01:43 PM
  5. slagman5's Avatar
    A fundamental question that must be asked, AND answered, when considering marketing a product or service is: "...what market are we targeting?". If the market target of the Q10 was legacy users, it failed. Utterly. Why was that? IMO, BBRY/QNX failed to comprehend WHY BlackBerry users liked using BlackBerrys. We weren't JUST using the PKB for typing. We appreciated the efficient precision PKB shortcuts AND toolbelt leveraged for navigating an intuitive User Interface. It's NOT just "familiarity", as the condescending "glass crowd" likes to simplistically dream. It's that some of us have found that ToolBelt & PKB are SUPERIOR to Glass slabs for UX navigation. A superiority that has already created a niche. No "Apple sized" numbers there but niche markets CAN leverage their loyal followers into an effective "free sales force".

    Our Classics have made positive movement in that direction. Classic 2, what ever its OS, needs to continue that trend.
    I agree. I love when these bandwagon kids try to accuse me of not being "with the times" or not knowing about technology because I "still" use a BlackBerry with a pkb and toolbelt... I guess it's too much of a concept for some people that there are individuals like myself who doesn't always go for whatever is the "coolest" at the time...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    10-31-15 01:56 PM
  6. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I agree. I love when these bandwagon kids try to accuse me of not being "with the times" or not knowing about technology because I "still" use a BlackBerry with a pkb and toolbelt... I guess it's too much of a concept for some people that there are individuals like myself who doesn't always go for whatever is the "coolest" at the time...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    There does appear that there is enough users like you that would buy a Classic to support the cost of development.



    Posted via CB10
    10-31-15 03:13 PM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It does appear that there is enough users like you that would buy a Classic to support the cost of development.



    Posted via CB10


    Posted via CB10
    10-31-15 04:34 PM
  8. idssteve's Avatar
    I agree. I love when these bandwagon kids try to accuse me of not being "with the times" or not knowing about technology because I "still" use a BlackBerry with a pkb and toolbelt... I guess it's too much of a concept for some people that there are individuals like myself who doesn't always go for whatever is the "coolest" at the time...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Yeah, the "bandwagon kids" typically grow silent and then curious once they see my 4+ year old 9900 in action... or "prehistoric looking" Classic in action. Working both together really seems to blow their closed minds... lol. Just spent last night coordinating 20+ coworkers in left hand and 30+ plant personnel in right hand. Post upgrade plant startup. NO other pair of devices could've done it as well. Some concepts just work. Like Charles Kettering (one of my heroes, ) I'm ALWAYS seeking improvement. If oversized glass proved more productive i'd be first in line to use it. It's not, i'm not.
    10-31-15 04:41 PM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Yeah, the "bandwagon kids" typically grow silent and then curious once they see my 4+ year old 9900 in action... or "prehistoric looking" Classic in action. Working both together really seems to blow their closed minds... lol. Just spent last night coordinating 20+ coworkers in left hand and 30+ plant personnel in right hand. Post upgrade plant startup. NO other pair of devices could've done it as well. Some concepts just work. Like Charles Kettering (one of my heroes, ) I'm ALWAYS seeking improvement. If oversized glass proved more productive i'd be first in line to use it. It's not, i'm not.
    I have a feeling that you can do what ever you are doing because you have a particular skill set. Some folks can do stuff on iPhones at a speed and complexity that I marvel at.

    I agree that there are many that find the Classic format useful. Many folks use their 9900's as a feature phone PDA device.

    The issue is not whether the Classic design is a valid format. The issue is that there are very few consumers willing to give up a large screen devices for a small screen , toolbelt and a PKB.

    Essentially, Chen fixed the Q10 by issuing the Classic. It appears that the Classic did not sell well. It is probable that if the BB10 Classic did not sell well that an Android Classic would also not sell well.

    I think that 9900 / Classic super users are kind of hooped.

    Posted via CB10
    10-31-15 06:19 PM
  10. ChainPunch's Avatar
    I believe the classic sold better than the Q10 or at the very least did not cause blackberry to take a financial hit like the z10 and q10, so I expect the q10 (no toolbelt) form factor is dead. Chen said in an interview that the cost of development of BB10 drivers is high, so it would not surprise me that if there is a classic 2 it will be based on passport internals given that drivers have already been developed for BB10.

    I don't expect for blackberry to release any android phones with the 1:1 aspect ratio, so to me you are only looking at a slider (priv) and maybe a full touchscreen android phone from blackberry. Now I could be wrong as the passport silver edition was the early test best for blackberry working on android it seems.

    Posted via CB10
    10-31-15 06:55 PM
  11. idssteve's Avatar
    I have a feeling that you can do what ever you are doing because you have a particular skill set. Some folks can do stuff on iPhones at a speed and complexity that I marvel at.

    I agree that there are many that find the Classic format useful. Many folks use their 9900's as a feature phone PDA device.

    The issue is not whether the Classic design is a valid format. The issue is that there are very few consumers willing to give up a large screen devices for a small screen , toolbelt and a PKB.

    Essentially, Chen fixed the Q10 by issuing the Classic. It appears that the Classic did not sell well. It is probable that if the BB10 Classic did not sell well that an Android Classic would also not sell well.

    I think that 9900 / Classic super users are kind of hooped.

    Posted via CB10
    Well, it takes two single handed capable devices in order to successfully "double fist". No doubt there's someone, somewhere, who's mastered a pair of iPhones. Developed pretty useful singlehanded effectiveness on my Z10, a couple yrs ago. It can be done on glass. They're just not friendly to the concept. Classic and legacy BB are.

    Will it matter to BB's fortunes? Only if they market their products' unique attributes. How many business commuters even know there's a device that doesn't force you to set down your briefcase in order to compose and send an email? Does BBRY even have a marketing staff any more?
    10-31-15 11:04 PM
  12. thanasi's Avatar
    I would love a new Classic with updated internals, a slightly bigger screen, no toolbelt and a touch sensitive 4-row keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-15 02:30 AM
  13. idssteve's Avatar
    Sounds like a PassPort Jr, to me. Might be a successful device but I see nothing "classic" about it. Why call it Classic? Doesn't PassPort command better recognition in Droid land?
    11-01-15 05:25 AM
  14. Dirtymike14's Avatar
    Keep dreaming guys cause as much as it sucks there probably won't be a classic 2

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-15 07:00 AM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Sounds like a PassPort Jr, to me. Might be a successful device but I see nothing "classic" about it. Why call it Classic? Doesn't PassPort command better recognition in Droid land?
    Yes it might be a Visa.

    I think in droid land it is called the mini.

    If the amount of threads on CB dedicated to a device is any indication, the Passport has out sold the Classic.

    In some ways it makes more sense to make a PRIV mini.

    Posted via CB10
    idssteve likes this.
    11-01-15 08:45 AM
  16. idssteve's Avatar
    Keep dreaming guys cause as much as it sucks there probably won't be a classic 2

    Posted via CB10
    You're likely right. But, while we're dreaming... how about a slider that slides completely apart... bluetooth linking the keyboard/toolbelt/small screen half with the 16:9 large half? lol.

    Classic's trackpad is a JOY to use for Miracast onto large screens without having to look at the phone. Always loved trackpadding around on my PlayBook via 9900. We used to scheme, dream and hope for ways to "playbook link" 9900 into our Z10's. Never happened. Wonderful possibilities tho... IMO, FWIW.

    Ok, time to wake up... lol
    11-01-15 12:05 PM
  17. Mithrandrost's Avatar
    Really comes down to BlackBerry's next move. Will they release a cheaper Priv sans pkb? That seems possible.

    However, it may also be possible that BlackBerry will want to stay in the pkb niche, to differentiate itself from the rest of the pack. So their next move may be to release the Passport as a full Android.

    If they keep with the pkb niche market strategy, then there will likely be a Classic II running Android.

    It is interesting to think what a future suite of Android Blackberry phones will look like. The BlackBerry name still has a lot of cache. The company is known around the world. So, it is also not unreasonable to think that they would eventually leverage the BlackBerry name and brand cheap glass Android slabs as entry level smartphones.



    Posted via my Blackberry Classic
    Last edited by Mithrandrost; 11-04-15 at 07:34 AM.
    idssteve likes this.
    11-01-15 12:58 PM
  18. idssteve's Avatar
    Really comes down to BlackBerry's next move. Will they release a cheaper Priv sans pkb? That seems possible.

    However, it may also be possible that BlackBerry will want to stay in the pkb niche, to differentiate itself from the rest of the pack. So their next move may be to release the Passport as a full Android.

    If they keep with the pkb niche market strategy, then there will likely be a Classic II running Android.

    It is interesting to think what a future suite of Android Blackberry phone will look like. The BlackBerry name still has a lot of cache. The company is known around the world. So, it is also not unreasonable to think that they would eventually leverage the BlackBerry name and brand cheap glass Android slabs as entry level smartphones.



    Posted via my Blackberry Classic
    Maybe also as transition devices leading into higher end stuff??

    Also, what ever the Priv does, it MUST be reliable and reasonably good. BB's name can too easily get muddied in droid land. No time for "half baked" rush jobs.
    wilber1 likes this.
    11-01-15 01:23 PM
  19. fireboy2281's Avatar
    It's a shame that users such as myself who still carry the bold 9900, are not easily convinced to upgrade to the Classic, phone that was released just recently. So, after 5 years of the bold 9900 release, Blackberry hasn't developed a device that would compel us to upgrade.

    In my opinion, the Classic should've been more compact with thinner bezels, larger screen and Passport's internal specs.
    abdul likes this.
    01-10-16 12:34 AM
  20. ChainPunch's Avatar
    No new BB10 devices for this year and it seems Chen like the idea of 1 or 2 devices, so I expect if we do get new BB10 devices expect the Passport first and then maybe the classic. I think whether it is android or BB10 blackberry is finish with touch screen devices without a keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    01-10-16 07:01 AM
45 12

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