[Alain_A]

Having in extra step or two is not a big deal providing it is done fast

From Classic

[dmsbang]

You can't be in a text entry field when you do so. But there's no specific setting.

I'm not in text entry mode and the T or B doesn't do anything when I pull the keyboard up...

Posted via Ganon the Z30

[z10Jobe]

And after probably 1 year, you still don't get it.
It's about the price/performance ratio and future proofing.
The price difference between the hardware in the Classic and something better, is so negligible that BlackBerry could have used better specs just to not rip off their customers completely.

The Classic is a de facto 200$ (50$ over the cheap Android because it has a keyboard) phone and every good review I read, pointed that out.
BlackBerry is on a roll with their ridiculous pricing though.
We now have the Playbook, the Z10/Q5, the Z30, the Classic and that ridiculous 200$ leather pouch for the Passport, that I could get cheaper even when my tailor makes it.
No self-respecting manufacturer would sell a device like the Classic for 450$, in 2015.

And actually, no, I read about 7 reviews now, and the spec argument is just one part of the whole equation.
Those reviews suppose 3 other things though:
The market for a device like the Classic is basically inexistant.
The ecosystem is so bad that this won't change soon.
Who still types on a physical keyboard?

And all those things are of major importance for at least 99.5% of smartphone buyers

umm... excuse me...but I disagree about the cost thing....

The only reason I switched to BB in 2013 was their ridiculously LOW pricing on the z10. It was $330 less than the Galaxy S4 at the time.

Since then, I bought 2 q5's for $150, one q5 for $159, 2 more Z10's for $199 and my Z30 for $249. All Canadian dollars. Like to see Apple or Samsung provide that value.

And btw, I experience little or no lag even on my 1.2Ghz q5.

Specs Schmecks. Regardless I read the GSM review on the Classic and after focusing and complaining about the specs, the reviewer said it ran great, which raises the question why they continued to focus on the specs. Sooooo... lets not complain about the specs, except for the fact that the mediocre Classic specs on paper may adversely impact consumer sales.

The most important spec for me is cost, and in the regard BB is awesome. Just don't buy their phones on release if you don't like their initial cost. Your patience will be rewarded.

[Bbnivende]

You really can not cite price as a Blackberry advantage. There was no demand so therefore the prices dropped and excess inventory was sold. I agree that right now these old phones are terrific value or at least strong value but they are not making money by running fire sales.

[LuvULongTime]

You really can not cite price as a Blackberry advantage. There was no demand so therefore the prices dropped and excess inventory was sold. I agree that right now these old phones are terrific value or at least strong value but they are not making money by running fire sales.

Realistically if they want to get back into the devices business they may have no choice but to accept razor thin margins if only to get people looking at the again. I'll add that they could take a page from the Xiaomi model and:

Xiaomi brands itself as an Internet company that eschews traditional marketing and sells hardware at low prices as a distribution channel for its real money maker – software and services

They could also offer BES discounts to companies that purchase BB10 phones.

[leglace1]

Well, if there is only a small amount of us who want that, and are willing to pay for it, then wouldn't getting a wider profit margin be better? No matter how cheap you make it, if someone doesn't want a pkb phone, they will not buy it. So basically the number of sales would remain roughly the same, but now with a smaller profit margin, so which is better?

Or are you suggesting that by making it cheaper that all of a sudden the people who are obsessed about 6" screens and/or iOS would have bought the Classic?

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Unfortunately, there are too few carriers of the device. BYOD is growing in North America. $100 would make big difference in buying a device outright.

Posted via CB10

[bboldboy]

You really can not cite price as a Blackberry advantage. There was no demand so therefore the prices dropped and excess inventory was sold. I agree that right now these old phones are terrific value or at least strong value but they are not making money by running fire sales.

You're right that Blackberry's low prices is not a sustainable strategy for profitability. However, trying to move out old inventory that has already been written down will make a very positive contribution to the bottom line in this quarter as the cost of goods sold has already been expensed.
One has seen attractive pricing for the Passport compared to other flagships, even at its regular price. You get the sense that BlackBerry didn't feel they could afford to take a similar approach with the Classic. I noted that for the Classic launch, invitees were only offered a discount rather than a free "seed " phone which are often handed out on such occasions. That struck me as reflecting a more careful approach to maintaining margins. I wonder how many phones they sold at their New York launch.

[7onZ]

Realistically if they want to get back into the devices business they may have no choice but to accept razor thin margins if only to get people looking at the again. I'll add that they could take a page from the Xiaomi model and:

Our company is not into device selling, but I do understand for an extent why the Blackberry starts with a high margined price. Wholesale is like Enterprise while Retail is a Consumer market. That being said we are able to provide good options for our clients in wholesale by selling them with good discounts to our products (compared to retail price) that when in due time it will be sold with almost the same amount also for Retail customers, by the wholesale clients, if the product is not moving well enough

[TLD1]

BlackBerry has created with the Classic an upgraded device in almost every area from the Curve & Bold lines. It's clearly not aimed at those who must have the latest & greatest smartphone technology, endless ecosystem or the processor to play games all day. It's target audience are those who've been diehard Legacy device users to step up to, and as a bigger/better device than the 9900/9930 to possibly even pull some (like me) past BlackBerry fanatics back into the fold and away from our big-screened, app-loaded phablets.

I've never understood why these tech sites try to compare BlackBerry devices with anything else on the market. Spec-wise, they often fail in comparison and look like losers...but that's hardly an issue to those who want them the most. Those drawn to the Classic are those who want a smartphone to be a communication tool first & foremost...and a toy a distant second.

My problem...as is with most iPhone/Galaxy type phone users is that we're addicted to the "toy" now and the availability of countless apps we'll probably never use...and we forget what this thing we used to call a "mobile phone" is supposed to be about. It supposed to be to communicate quickly, easily & effectively.

The BlackBerry Classic looks like it does that pretty well.

[MarsupilamiX]

P

BlackBerry has created with the Classic an upgraded device in almost every area from the Curve & Bold lines. It's clearly not aimed at those who must have the latest & greatest smartphone technology, endless ecosystem or the processor to play games all day. It's target audience are those who've been diehard Legacy device users to step up to, and as a bigger/better device than the 9900/9930 to possibly even pull some (like me) past BlackBerry fanatics back into the fold and away from our big-screened, app-loaded phablets.

I've never understood why these tech sites try to compare BlackBerry devices with anything else on the market. Spec-wise, they often fail in comparison and look like losers...but that's hardly an issue to those who want them the most. Those drawn to the Classic are those who want a smartphone to be a communication tool first & foremost...and a toy a distant second.

My problem...as is with most iPhone/Galaxy type phone users is that we're addicted to the "toy" now and the availability of countless apps we'll probably never use...and we forget what this thing we used to call a "mobile phone" is supposed to be about. It supposed to be to communicate quickly, easily & effectively.

The BlackBerry Classic looks like it does that pretty well.

Even BlackBerry has stopped to use the "tools not toys" line, because it is nonsensical.
Just because the Classic is a bad toy, doesn't mean that it's a good tool.
My enterprise switched to Android and iOS shortly before 2015, and we now require certain apps for our work flow, which either aren't available for BB10 at all, or aren't as feature rich.

No matter how much you want to call our new phones toys, they are better tools than our old BlackBerries, simply because they are able to use the software we need.
That the overwhelming majority prefers touchscreens over physical keyboards for written communications, should also be of note (not that it's surprising, at 0.5% global marketshare for smartphones with physical keyboards (at max)).

You seem to have a very distorted view of the market, and how capable "toys" are, compared to the "tool" that doesn't even have a native Skype App.
What about typing speed? World record goes to the touchscreen/software keyboard.
Business apps? The "tool" doesn't even compare to the "toys" in that regard. Every "toy" has more available.
Bank apps? Don't get me even started, and yes, I consider them as pretty important, also for business operations.
So... Where is your "tool" actually capable to come close to the "toy"?
In what area is it better?
If you're not a keyboard die-hard, the answer is nearly nowhere.

You're also not the guy, who will define what a smartphone should be nowadays.
User masses of over 3 billions are already doing that for you.
And it seems to be pretty obvious, that the smartphone left the limited paradigm you are describing, to become something akin to an extremely portable PC nowadays.

The things you say, show a pretty big degree of denial, in terms of evolutions in the marketplace.
You should be happier with a Bold 9900, than any modern smartphone to be honest. Because that's a device conceived for a 5 year old paradigm.
Which corresponds to the paradigm you are apparently crying after, in this post.
A paradigm, BlackBerry believed so hard in, that it nearly cost them their metaphorical life.

User paradigms change. And when such a paradigm change happens, you have 2 big possibilities:
either companies change the times (Apple through the iPhone, undeniably changed the world and how we use smartphoness), or the times will change the companies (as it happened with BlackBerry. Once the leader, it got transformed to one of the most irrelevant smartphone producers in our current timeline).

The Classic is the embodiment of BlackBerry's defiance, when it comes down to accepting this new paradigm.
And thus itself, is already a relic of the past, just like the sentence "tools not toys".

PS: I love your profile pic though. It's genuinely awesome.

[MarsupilamiX]

Um, speaking of not being in a vacuum, you are speaking like the Classic is the only device they are creating, which it isn't. It was never meant to be the backbone of their entire hardware strategy. It was always just to get the legacy hold-outs away from their legacy devices. That is not at all a strategy to make overall profits for the company. I don't get how this is such a hard concept to explain. If it's still not understood, then don't worry about it dude. I'll end it here and let you get the last word, it's getting nowhere fast...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

And I am not only talking about the Classic when I talk about market share, ecosystem, form-factor or app stores.
I am talking about the whole product portfolio.
BlackBerry sold around 8 million smartphones in 2014, throughout all of the available models.

Legacy die-hards, the ones who still wait for a "worthy" BB10 device after their brilliant OS7 phone... Are mostly a myth.
The Enterprise sector, just like the consumers, have mostly bought Curves. And the Classic is at least 150$ too expensive to be a Curve successor.
At the same time, the Classic is not a Bold either. Materials used, specs and the price aren't premium enough to be a Bold successor.

So, leaving the vacuum called the Classic subforum behind, let's take a look at BlackBerry's product portfolio:

You want a Curve? There is none.
Bold? None.
Entry level touch device (100$, give or take)? None.
Midrange device with specs that aren't 3 years old? None (touch and keyboard alike).
High-end keyboard? There is one, albeit a weird one.
High-end touch? None.
Phablet, no matter in what bracket? None.

You said that the Classic isn't part of a strategy that would make BlackBerry profitable.
Well, yeah, I agree. But currently, there is exactly no strategy employed, that would make sense for the hardware sector, if Chen plans on staying in it.
And tbh, Chen agrees with that thought, at least partially. There was no reason to demote the head of sales, if the current strategy would be a winning one.

Getting legacy die-hards on board would be a good beginning (if BlackBerry wouldn't have tried that with the Q line already. What do you say? They didn't have the Belt? That surely will change a lot.......)
Sadly, there aren't any legacy die-hards (apart from the other 1000 users that are like BelfastD) like you imagine them to be.
There are keyboard lovers. Yes. There are people who want cheap phones until they break down (Curve users for BlackBerry, or low to midrange phone users overall). Still yes.
Maybe even some users who love BIS... But the mythical BBOS power user, is as inexistent as the word inexistant, nowadays.

So yeah, I will respond with very similar words, as you did:
Hey Dude, I don't understand why it's so hard to understand those things. But don't worry, the future will provide all the facts that we need, to conclude if BlackBerry's current pseudo-strategy is indeed the correct one, or if Chen has no idea how to sell BlackBerry phones successfully.
(oth, there's not a lot to sell. The product portfolio is pretty bad)

I have no doubt that BlackBerry will continue to exist as a SaaS company. Chen seems to know what to do there.
As a hardware strategist however, Chen might have been the wrong man.

[dmsbang]

Are some of you applying for jobs with Mobile Nations on here? These comments are too much like a thesis. Remember, we're all fans just trying to support what we like!

The art of being a true, legit critic is lost in today's tech World!

Posted via "Link" the Q10

[_tC]

Bringing TLDR to a whole new level.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Bringing TLDR to a whole new level.

Posted via CB10

Not every posting style is for everyone and not every short answer is a good answer

[Bbnivende]

"The Enterprise sector, just like the consumers, have mostly bought Curves. And the Classic is at least 150$ too expensive to be a Curve successor. " - MarsupilamiX

Small point:
I do not think this was true in North America. Mainly 9900's since they came out. The Curve was much more popular in the UK because they are "frugal".

[3rdStone]

I'm not in text entry mode and the T or B doesn't do anything when I pull the keyboard up...

Posted via Ganon the Z30

Works fine for me on a Z10. You almost certainly have a cursor in a text field which is preventing it from working.

[slagman5]

"The Enterprise sector, just like the consumers, have mostly bought Curves. And the Classic is at least 150$ too expensive to be a Curve successor. " - MarsupilamiX

Small point:
I do not think this was true in North America. Mainly 9900's since they came out. The Curve was much more popular in the UK because they are "frugal".

All the business people I know who use BB's are using Bolds, but whatever. When people start citing "facts" without actual statistics, it means very little and isn't worth your time to bother arguing about...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[jmr1015]

Bringing TLDR to a whole new level.

Posted via CB10

I actually really enjoy the longer posts, when they are well written and well thought out, and not just mindless rambling and fanboy ranting.

Though, they do make me think of this meme. Haha

[dmsbang]

Everything is rambling unless it's from an actual company or news source...

Posted via "Link" the Q10

[slagman5]

I actually really enjoy the longer posts, when they are well written and well thought out, and not just mindless rambling and fanboy ranting.

Though, they do make me think of this meme. Haha

http://static.squarespace.com/static...t-is-wrong.jpg

It should read: "Someone on the internet has a different opinion than I do." :-P

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[BigBadWulf]

When y'all start debating a cartoon, the thread has reached its EOL.

Dang the poor poor horse this rode in on.

[Blue787]

As simple as it may sound, any phone which is not an iPhone, priced over $399 is overpriced as far as these reviewers are concerned. So here's the deal, your new phone must not have any kind of quality build or OS, secondly, it must be bad enough functionally, that it actually makes the iPhone look good. I get it now. Personally for me, given what BlackBerry go through with the media, theVerge and company wouldn't get a phone to review. I didn't buy my phone based on reviews from biased reviewers or friendly reviewers. I go with what the manufacturers themselves have said. John Chen has made it clear BlackBerry is back in their niche...Business. Who cares what the Verge says, they've drank too much Kool Aid anyways. This phone clearly is not for the consumer, which is good, now everyone who wishes to play games or compare specs but the iPhone or GS5/6/7 those who're into business BlackBerry is the marque.

[Zeratul57]

I'm so glad I don't need someone to tell me what kind of phone to buy.

Posted via CB10

Even technicians hated shopping for phones until they discovered the BB Curve ; )

[TLD1]

P


Even BlackBerry has stopped to use the "tools not toys" line, because it is nonsensical.
Just because the Classic is a bad toy, doesn't mean that it's a good tool.
My enterprise switched to Android and iOS shortly before 2015, and we now require certain apps for our work flow, which either aren't available for BB10 at all, or aren't as feature rich.

No matter how much you want to call our new phones toys, they are better tools than our old BlackBerries, simply because they are able to use the software we need.
That the overwhelming majority prefers touchscreens over physical keyboards for written communications, should also be of note (not that it's surprising, at 0.5% global marketshare for smartphones with physical keyboards (at max)).

You seem to have a very distorted view of the market, and how capable "toys" are, compared to the "tool" that doesn't even have a native Skype App.
What about typing speed? World record goes to the touchscreen/software keyboard.
Business apps? The "tool" doesn't even compare to the "toys" in that regard. Every "toy" has more available.
Bank apps? Don't get me even started, and yes, I consider them as pretty important, also for business operations.
So... Where is your "tool" actually capable to come close to the "toy"?
In what area is it better?
If you're not a keyboard die-hard, the answer is nearly nowhere.

You're also not the guy, who will define what a smartphone should be nowadays.
User masses of over 3 billions are already doing that for you.
And it seems to be pretty obvious, that the smartphone left the limited paradigm you are describing, to become something akin to an extremely portable PC nowadays.

The things you say, show a pretty big degree of denial, in terms of evolutions in the marketplace.
You should be happier with a Bold 9900, than any modern smartphone to be honest. Because that's a device conceived for a 5 year old paradigm.
Which corresponds to the paradigm you are apparently crying after, in this post.
A paradigm, BlackBerry believed so hard in, that it nearly cost them their metaphorical life.

User paradigms change. And when such a paradigm change happens, you have 2 big possibilities:
either companies change the times (Apple through the iPhone, undeniably changed the world and how we use smartphoness), or the times will change the companies (as it happened with BlackBerry. Once the leader, it got transformed to one of the most irrelevant smartphone producers in our current timeline).

The Classic is the embodiment of BlackBerry's defiance, when it comes down to accepting this new paradigm.
And thus itself, is already a relic of the past, just like the sentence "tools not toys".

PS: I love your profile pic though. It's genuinely awesome.

How long did that take you to type? That's exactly how long it took you to completely misunderstand my post. Thanks for taking the time to do it, though.

[Bbnivende]

I finally had a chance to try out a real working Classic at a carrier store (Thanks Telus !!) ,

Not as nice as my 9900 but much better than a Q10. I prefer the shiny stainless steel rim and the way it wraps onto the glass on the 9900. I like the larger trackpad and the way it is flush with screen level on the 9900 as well. At least the Classic looks like a $400 phone where as the black Q10 looks pretty cheap ( but not nearly as awful as a Q5). The Classic was next to a working Passport and of course the Passport comes off as much more premium.

I have to say that after using an all touch BB10 device that I have zero interest in the trackpad. It was just so much easier and quicker to just use your fingers. I always thought BlackBerry was wrong about the trackpad. All they needed to to was to make a device with a decent screen size. So incredibly stupid to be caught up in a square screen in the first place.

I came away feeling that the Classic makes a nice business phone but that I want a better Z or a Passport mini.

Edit: I have no issue with a $400 Classic. If I wanted a replacement for my 9900, I would gladly pay. There really is no substitute if you love that Bold PKB and you use the phone for something other than e-mails.