10-22-14 07:09 PM
237 12345 ...
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  1. slagman5's Avatar
    Your logic is compelling except for the flawed assumption that abandoning querty will somehow improve sales of BBRY "all touch" products. All touch devices currently account for less than 1/3 of BBRY sales. Ditching legacy and current keyboard devices would simply reduce their already dismal sales volume by 2/3. Is BBRY in such an enviable position to be able to do that?

    Until BBRY offers an "all touch" device that will attract many millions of NEW consumers from Appledroid, abandoning 2/3 of their existing market is utter folly, IMO. Abandoning existing markets will only make sense for them AFTER that all touch device reliably grabs significant Appledroid market share, and PROVES that volume will persist. The Z just isn't there, by any numbers i have access to, FWIW.
    I'm just going to use a beeper if they are going to force everyone to only have all-touch devices from here on out. We might as well have barcodes tattooed on our heads too and make it so we all wear uniforms and drive the same cars...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    idssteve likes this.
    06-14-14 02:02 PM
  2. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    How's it feel for "top heavy"? Is it a single handed proposition?
    Yes

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.3139
    idssteve likes this.
    06-14-14 02:03 PM
  3. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Your logic is compelling except for the flawed assumption that abandoning querty will somehow improve sales of BBRY "all touch" products. All touch devices currently account for less than 1/3 of BBRY sales. Ditching legacy and current keyboard devices would simply reduce their already dismal sales volume by 2/3. Is BBRY in such an enviable position to be able to do that?

    Until BBRY offers an "all touch" device that will attract many millions of NEW consumers from Appledroid, abandoning 2/3 of their existing market is utter folly, IMO. Abandoning existing markets will only make sense for them AFTER that all touch device reliably grabs significant Appledroid market share, and PROVES that volume will persist. The Z just isn't there, by any numbers i have access to, FWIW.
    A technology platform pusher only being able to sell to its existing customers is death by a thousand cuts, a vicious circle that is guaranteed to end with oblivion.

    I maintain that along with poor to non-existent marketing it's the confused mixed form factor and mixed OS approach over the last 18 months that contributes to BlackBerry's poor performance in bringing people back to BlackBerry from other platforms

    When consumers see the physical keyboard of the Q5 and Q10 it reaffirms their preconceived views of what a BlackBerry is; a small screen old fashioned laggy fiddly phone with no apps, BEFORE they even bother to pick it up and try it where they would discover that it's all shiny new and the problems of before are largely gone. And then they see the 9320, 9720 and 9900 still for sale and look around for the modern all touch iPhones, Android and Windows phones. This is all losing BlackBerry sales and keeping it's brand name tarnished without people even knowing about BlackBerry 10.

    If the Q5 and Q10 had been replaced with re-aligned spec all touch BlackBerry phones alongside the Z10 in the first half of 2013 and BBOS phones had been pulled from consumer line ups with carriers (but not Business line ups to aid slow moving IT departments) then yes it would have lost some of the die hard BlackBerry fans but it would have put it's product range in line with what 99% of Smartphone buyers in 2013 and 2014 actually part with money for and BUY.

    If BlackBerry think that all touch BB10 phone sales are poor because all touch isn't popular or what people want then I'd love to know what it is they smoke because I'd like some.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3175 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.2
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 06-14-14 at 02:47 PM.
    06-14-14 02:17 PM
  4. idssteve's Avatar
    A technology platform pusher only being able to sell to its existing customers is death by a thousand cuts, a vicious circle that is guaranteed to end with oblivion.

    I maintain that along with poor to non-existabt marketing it's the confused mixed form factor and mixed OS approach over the last 18 months that contributes to BlackBerry's poor performance in bringing people back to BlackBerry from from other platforms

    When consumers see the physical keyboard of the Q5 and Q10 it reaffirms their preconceived views of what a BlackBerry is; a small screen old fashioned laggy fiddly phone with no apps, BEFORE they even bother to pick it up and try it where they would discover that it's all shiny new and the problems of before are largely gone. And then they see the 9320, 9720 and 9900 still for sale and look around for the modern all touch iPhones, Android and Windows phones. This is all losing BlackBerry sales and keeping it's brand name tarnished without people even knowing about BlackBerry 10.

    If the Q5 and Q10 had been replaced with re-aligned spec all touch BlackBerry phones alongside the Z10 in the first half of 2013 and BBOS phones had been pulled from consumer line ups with carriers (but not Business line ups to aid slow moving IT departments) then yes it would have lost some of the die hard BlackBerry fans but it would have put it's product range in line with what 99% of Smartphone buyers in 2013 and 2014 actually part with money for and BUY.

    If BlackBerry think that all touch BB10 phone sales are poor because all touch isn't popular or what people want then I'd love to know what it is they smoke because I'd like some.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3175 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.2
    Abandoning an EXISTING market before reliably establishing a NEW market is classic market suicide. BlackBerry's obstacles are not just image. Great as it is, OS10 has been too slow to mature. Too many people return Z's after a week of fiddling with them. The keyboard on my 9900 had NOthing to do with THAT. I, myself, returned to 9900 after a YEAR of fiddling with Z and Q. If the objective is to capture Apple consumers, BBRY MUST, i repeat, MUST find a way to ELIMINATE the learning curve in transitioning from iOS. That learning curve is killing them, according to iOSers i know. If iOSers can't pick up a Z and feel comfortably successful in 15 seconds, you will loose them. BBRY has lost them. Abandoning the PROVEN efficiency of tool belt for three years has done NOthing but destroy BBRY's market share.
    Last edited by idssteve; 06-14-14 at 03:55 PM.
    wilber1 and DeliFresser like this.
    06-14-14 02:50 PM
  5. Jurky's Avatar
    This part about the learning curve is idiotic. The day I got my Q10 an iphone user who had never used a BlackBerry 10 device before taught me how to use it, gestures and all. I had zero experience with a touch screen whereas she had plenty and was able to guide me with things like "start lower (near the keyboard fret) to swipe up and unlock the screen or to minimize an app to Active Frame," with things in the Hub like filtering, and about nuances I didn't have a clue about like "select more."
    06-14-14 03:27 PM
  6. idssteve's Avatar
    I'm just going to use a beeper if they are going to force everyone to only have all-touch devices from here on out. We might as well have barcodes tattooed on our heads too and make it so we all wear uniforms and drive the same cars...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Yeah, never have so many been so conditioned for so long... Even my daughter was exposed to Apple indoctrination in first grade. People that dream that BBRY can somehow overtake Apple's name recognition are practicing sophism to a breathtaking extreme. BBRY will not overtake Apple market share any time soon. They CAN, however, chart a new path and stand ready to offer an proven alternative once the glass fad fades. Leadership is not about copying the leader. Its about blazing a NEW path. Or, at least, evaluating the current path with your own brain. The difference between brainless "collectivism" vs thinking collaboration.
    06-14-14 03:36 PM
  7. idssteve's Avatar
    This part about the learning curve is idiotic. The day I got my Q10 an iphone user who had never used a BlackBerry 10 device before taught me how to use it, gestures and all. I had zero experience with a touch screen whereas she had plenty and was able to guide me with things like "start lower (near the keyboard fret) to swipe up and unlock the screen or to minimize an app to Active Frame," with things in the Hub like filtering, and about nuances I didn't have a clue about like "select more."
    I've never been an iphone user, myself, so i'll accept your opinion of my opinion. My only experience with iOS is what others have shared with me so... your mileage will vary...
    06-14-14 03:39 PM
  8. slagman5's Avatar
    A technology platform pusher only being able to sell to its existing customers is death by a thousand cuts, a vicious circle that is guaranteed to end with oblivion.

    I maintain that along with poor to non-existent marketing it's the confused mixed form factor and mixed OS approach over the last 18 months that contributes to BlackBerry's poor performance in bringing people back to BlackBerry from other platforms

    When consumers see the physical keyboard of the Q5 and Q10 it reaffirms their preconceived views of what a BlackBerry is; a small screen old fashioned laggy fiddly phone with no apps, BEFORE they even bother to pick it up and try it where they would discover that it's all shiny new and the problems of before are largely gone. And then they see the 9320, 9720 and 9900 still for sale and look around for the modern all touch iPhones, Android and Windows phones. This is all losing BlackBerry sales and keeping it's brand name tarnished without people even knowing about BlackBerry 10.

    If the Q5 and Q10 had been replaced with re-aligned spec all touch BlackBerry phones alongside the Z10 in the first half of 2013 and BBOS phones had been pulled from consumer line ups with carriers (but not Business line ups to aid slow moving IT departments) then yes it would have lost some of the die hard BlackBerry fans but it would have put it's product range in line with what 99% of Smartphone buyers in 2013 and 2014 actually part with money for and BUY.

    If BlackBerry think that all touch BB10 phone sales are poor because all touch isn't popular or what people want then I'd love to know what it is they smoke because I'd like some.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3175 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.2
    So to sum it all up, forget all of us who don't jump on the "all touchscreen phones are better because they are cooler" bandwagon then right? Alright...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-14-14 03:43 PM
  9. idssteve's Avatar
    So to sum it all up, forget all of us who don't jump on the "all touchscreen phones are better because they are cooler" bandwagon then right? Alright...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Yeah, i wonder if these people that think BBRY needs to ditch the Q in order to sell Z's also think Toyota needs to ditch the Tundra in order to sell Prius? ???
    DeliFresser likes this.
    06-14-14 04:18 PM
  10. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    A technology platform pusher only being able to sell to its existing customers is death by a thousand cuts, a vicious circle that is guaranteed to end with oblivion.

    I maintain that along with poor to non-existent marketing it's the confused mixed form factor and mixed OS approach over the last 18 months that contributes to BlackBerry's poor performance in bringing people back to BlackBerry from other platforms

    When consumers see the physical keyboard of the Q5 and Q10 it reaffirms their preconceived views of what a BlackBerry is; a small screen old fashioned laggy fiddly phone with no apps, BEFORE they even bother to pick it up and try it where they would discover that it's all shiny new and the problems of before are largely gone. And then they see the 9320, 9720 and 9900 still for sale and look around for the modern all touch iPhones, Android and Windows phones. This is all losing BlackBerry sales and keeping it's brand name tarnished without people even knowing about BlackBerry 10.

    If the Q5 and Q10 had been replaced with re-aligned spec all touch BlackBerry phones alongside the Z10 in the first half of 2013 and BBOS phones had been pulled from consumer line ups with carriers (but not Business line ups to aid slow moving IT departments) then yes it would have lost some of the die hard BlackBerry fans but it would have put it's product range in line with what 99% of Smartphone buyers in 2013 and 2014 actually part with money for and BUY.

    If BlackBerry think that all touch BB10 phone sales are poor because all touch isn't popular or what people want then I'd love to know what it is they smoke because I'd like some.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3175 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.2
    This may be one of the more uninformed posts I've read here in a while. More than 75% of BB's market share is from QWERTY devices with most still being BBOS devices.

    And you're suggesting BlackBerry stop catering to those millions of people and create a device that the 75%+ of their customers don't want, in hopes of people who have never used BlackBerry or have left the platform to come back?

    You might just be out of your mind. The Z3, Z10 and Z30 have shown you thrice over that the world doesn't care about an all touch BlackBerry enough to switch to or back to the platform.

    Is your last name Heins by chance?

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.3139
    iamagod and DeliFresser like this.
    06-14-14 04:45 PM
  11. Dr_Vancouver's Avatar
    ...once it gets 10.3, I would vote Q10 over classic- but Windermere will rule them all.

    Posted via CB10 on my Q10
    06-14-14 10:54 PM
  12. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    Classic >>>>>>> Q10

    Posted via CB10
    06-15-14 06:44 PM
  13. Katika99's Avatar
    A technology platform pusher only being able to sell to its existing customers is death by a thousand cuts, a vicious circle that is guaranteed to end with oblivion.

    I maintain that along with poor to non-existent marketing it's the confused mixed form factor and mixed OS approach over the last 18 months that contributes to BlackBerry's poor performance in bringing people back to BlackBerry from other platforms

    When consumers see the physical keyboard of the Q5 and Q10 it reaffirms their preconceived views of what a BlackBerry is; a small screen old fashioned laggy fiddly phone with no apps, BEFORE they even bother to pick it up and try it where they would discover that it's all shiny new and the problems of before are largely gone. And then they see the 9320, 9720 and 9900 still for sale and look around for the modern all touch iPhones, Android and Windows phones. This is all losing BlackBerry sales and keeping it's brand name tarnished without people even knowing about BlackBerry 10.

    If the Q5 and Q10 had been replaced with re-aligned spec all touch BlackBerry phones alongside the Z10 in the first half of 2013 and BBOS phones had been pulled from consumer line ups with carriers (but not Business line ups to aid slow moving IT departments) then yes it would have lost some of the die hard BlackBerry fans but it would have put it's product range in line with what 99% of Smartphone buyers in 2013 and 2014 actually part with money for and BUY.

    If BlackBerry think that all touch BB10 phone sales are poor because all touch isn't popular or what people want then I'd love to know what it is they smoke because I'd like some.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3175 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.2
    ....

    My Q10 is not laggy or whatever. Please test a Q10 before speaking this nonsense. If you want an all touch device keep you Z30 but don't ask Blackberry to ditch what some wants, a keyboard device.

    Posted via my french Q10
    06-16-14 04:23 AM
  14. Katika99's Avatar
    ....

    My Q10 is not laggy or whatever. Please test a Q10 before speaking this nonsense. If you want an all touch device keep your Z30 but don't ask Blackberry to ditch what the majority wants, a keyboard device.

    Posted via my french Q10


    Posted via my french Q10
    06-16-14 04:27 AM
  15. iamagod's Avatar
    You should do more research. The Classic is the Q10, but with a Toolbelt. Same BB10 OS.

    Source: I've played with one.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.3139
    Wicked! Is the screen a 1:1 ratio?? And is the keyboard curved?! Would love to know these two aspects of the phone.

    Posted via CB10
    06-16-14 05:43 AM
  16. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    Wicked! Is the screen a 1:1 ratio?? And is the keyboard curved?! Would love to know these two aspects of the phone.

    Posted via CB10
    Well it's not 16:9.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.3139
    06-16-14 09:42 AM
  17. agarwal.apar's Avatar
    Does anyone here feel that Thorsten was right? That the Q10 is the perfect marriage of old and new?

    Whenever I pick up my bold to play, I love the hardware, but man bb10 is so much better than bb7.

    We can all agree that the classic will be an amazing device for those that love the bold. But has anyone here used a bold, then got a Q10, and has no interest whatsoever in getting a classic?

    I'm on the fence. I'll have to wait to read CrackBerry.com and watch some video reviews before I decide.
    I love the form factor of 9900. There's no replacement of tool belt. That being said, Q10 is a beast in terms of performance. I am waiting with bated breath for a perfect combination of Q10 and Bold 9900!


    Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums
    06-16-14 09:45 AM
  18. Giro_UK's Avatar
    I had my heart set on a Q10 after my 9900...but because the release was delayed I opted for the Z10, despite really wanting buttons.

    I'm now in the touch screen camp, simply because it's more of an elegant form. And I think I'd struggle to go back to (no, not buttons) but a SMALL screen.

    Therefore, the Q20, for me, just needs to be a faster Q10, more powerful, and most importantly, a BIGGER portrait screen.

    I think then, it's feasible it could have the best of both worlds.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z10...
    06-16-14 02:49 PM
  19. Salokin83's Avatar
    i don't get why people want the tool belt back for bb os 10. it is so intuitive, fast and easy to use, far better than android or ios. the tool belt seems to be against the nature of the swiping movements using the os. in my opinion bb os 10 and sailfish os are the best mobile os on the market at the moment. but the main consumer doesn't see that, because everybody is only into the specs of new flagship devices being released by popular brands like apple, samsung or google and not like bb or jolla. i am a mac os x user regarding computing and an ios user on my ipad, but if it comes to smartphones, i do not see any good reason to go for an iphone or android flagship devcie any longer. price/peformance ratio is ****. i switched from the iphone 5 to the q10 and i just love this phone. it is reliable, fast and secure. it is perfect for making phone calls/messaging. the size is just perfect and i do not need a bigger screen. if i want to watch a move i choose my mac or the ipad. imho the q10 is the perfect mix of old and new, providing the good old bb keyboard and a fast, secure, intuitive and advanced os. so heins was right
    06-16-14 05:14 PM
  20. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    I think there have been enough threads around here that explain why people want the Toolbelt back. BlackBerry wouldn't do it if there wasn't a demand and outrage at it's absence. Let's not go down that path again.

    i don't get why people want the tool belt back for bb os 10. it is so intuitive, fast and easy to use, far better than android or ios. the tool belt seems to be against the nature of the swiping movements using the os. in my opinion bb os 10 and sailfish os are the best mobile os on the market at the moment. but the main consumer doesn't see that, because everybody is only into the specs of new flagship devices being released by popular brands like apple, samsung or google and not like bb or jolla. i am a mac os x user regarding computing and an ios user on my ipad, but if it comes to smartphones, i do not see any good reason to go for an iphone or android flagship devcie any longer. price/peformance ratio is ****. i switched from the iphone 5 to the q10 and i just love this phone. it is reliable, fast and secure. it is perfect for making phone calls/messaging. the size is just perfect and i do not need a bigger screen. if i want to watch a move i choose my mac or the ipad. imho the q10 is the perfect mix of old and new, providing the good old bb keyboard and a fast, secure, intuitive and advanced os. so heins was right
    06-16-14 05:44 PM
  21. slagman5's Avatar
    i don't get why people want the tool belt back for bb os 10. it is so intuitive, fast and easy to use, far better than android or ios. the tool belt seems to be against the nature of the swiping movements using the os. in my opinion bb os 10 and sailfish os are the best mobile os on the market at the moment. but the main consumer doesn't see that, because everybody is only into the specs of new flagship devices being released by popular brands like apple, samsung or google and not like bb or jolla. i am a mac os x user regarding computing and an ios user on my ipad, but if it comes to smartphones, i do not see any good reason to go for an iphone or android flagship devcie any longer. price/peformance ratio is ****. i switched from the iphone 5 to the q10 and i just love this phone. it is reliable, fast and secure. it is perfect for making phone calls/messaging. the size is just perfect and i do not need a bigger screen. if i want to watch a move i choose my mac or the ipad. imho the q10 is the perfect mix of old and new, providing the good old bb keyboard and a fast, secure, intuitive and advanced os. so heins was right
    Oh geez, another one. Ok, so YOU don't want it. Great for you, don't buy it. Just get it through your skull that everyone is exactly like you. So just because YOU don't see a need for it, doesn't mean there isn't a need for it. I know, crazy concept that you are not the gold standard for everyone to follow, but believe it or not, it's true...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-16-14 08:07 PM
  22. th.1977's Avatar
    i honestly dont think the q20 will flop theres just too many ppl out there like me that didnt upgrade due to the lack of the toolbelt. i was about to give up and go all touch when they announced q20 now im excited and will def upgrade when its released im sure others will too

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9320 using Tapatalk
    06-16-14 08:36 PM
  23. Hup55's Avatar
    Do you feel the Q10 will still be better than the Classic?-rim-set-launch-blackberry-q30-z15_ghanalive.tv_.jpg

    This is what I am looking forward to!!

    Posted Via my ? Q10 ?
    06-16-14 08:48 PM
  24. Jurky's Avatar
    i don't get why people want the tool belt back for bb os 10. it is so intuitive, fast and easy to use, far better than android or ios. the tool belt seems to be against the nature of the swiping movements using the os. in my opinion bb os 10 and sailfish os are the best mobile os on the market at the moment. but the main consumer doesn't see that, because everybody is only into the specs of new flagship devices being released by popular brands like apple, samsung or google and not like bb or jolla. i am a mac os x user regarding computing and an ios user on my ipad, but if it comes to smartphones, i do not see any good reason to go for an iphone or android flagship devcie any longer. price/peformance ratio is ****. i switched from the iphone 5 to the q10 and i just love this phone. it is reliable, fast and secure. it is perfect for making phone calls/messaging. the size is just perfect and i do not need a bigger screen. if i want to watch a move i choose my mac or the ipad. imho the q10 is the perfect mix of old and new, providing the good old bb keyboard and a fast, secure, intuitive and advanced os. so heins was right
    I agree with you. Heins was right. The toolbelt is redundant on blackberry 10. I'll stick with my Q10.
    06-16-14 09:23 PM
  25. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    I agree with you. Heins was right. The toolbelt is redundant on blackberry 10. I'll stick with my Q10.
    That's great the device works for you. You're in the minority

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.3139
    06-16-14 09:27 PM
237 12345 ...

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