The dangers of the tool belt

Originally Posted by RyanGermann

The Belt is vintage and classic.... not old and busted.

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I totally agree.

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Originally Posted by ShamrockRagEll

How can already having a bad image be justification for not giving a dann about it anymore?

There was a time when no one liked apple. If they had gone like "no one likes is, but **** it, lets just go on like that." there wouldn't be an iPhone you guys could hate on.

You can tell it to yourselves the whole day, but everyone is affected by a strong message a brand sends. You are what you buy. That's why a lot of people here proudly say they own a blackberry because they need no toy but a tool.

Let me tell you something crazy: there are CEOs out there that run companies and they use android and iOS devices. That blackberry is the only phone you can properly work with is a marketing that's been planted in your heads from legacy times.

Unfortunately blackberry right now appeals mostly to legacy device users and just few others. They need to step it up, as they can't just rely on this circle of people. What if one die hard fan abandoned the ship and no one would replace him?
It's like a rain forest where you cut down one tree after another and over time there is no forest anymore. What then?
Start planting some trees.

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The image will improve if sales improve. It's that simple.

Posted with my ? Q10.

Originally Posted by ShamrockRagEll

How can already having a bad image be justification for not giving a dann about it anymore?

But is image more important than substance? Is it more important to continue to make an inferior product so that we can claim that the image hasn't changed?

The Q10 is a good phone, and elegant. It represents a break from the past. It uses the new, modern BB10 UI. It's a good marketing story, if your most important goal is to not be the "same old blackberry".

Unfortunately the Q10 is not as efficient as a communication device as the old BBOS devices were. I don't think it's possible to make an all-touch UI that is as fast as a belt-based UI. I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

So, they have a choice. Stick with the new elegant, less efficient UI, and continue to market the new image. Or they could make a new and better and more efficient phone that borrows some elements from previous models.

Personally, I care more about substance than image. I want the better phone, the more efficient UI.

I also think that a better phone is easier to sell than a phone that is consistent with the current brand message.

If they execute properly on the Q20, they will end up with the most efficient phone ever for high-volume business communication. Who cares if the belt looks "retro"? They will have an actual product with an actual unique selling point that is relevant to an actual market segment.



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Originally Posted by JAS0NB0URNE

The image will improve if sales improve. It's that simple.

Posted with my ? Q10.

Sales will improve when the image improves. It's that simple. Actually, it's not that simple. I just wanted to illustrate that it goes both ways and that BlackBerry does need both, desperately. They need a strong presence as a brand, they need to portray a clear direction and confidence. They also need sales. In case of Q20 this is a tradeoff. They are lowering their brand to extract more sales. I hope that their play pays off and that they are not sitting idly by thinking that the extra sales from the Q20 will do enough to uplift the brand so as to help repair the brand image. It's a fine line and it is my opinion that the Q20 move is a hasty one and quite possibly wrong. We will see I guess.

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This thread is still going? Why argue about a phone that's not even released, and go back and forth about opinion? Over 120 replies later, and nobody is changing theirs. Seems like a waste of time to me...

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Lowering their brand? That's funny. Is the screen lowering the brand? How about the keyboard? Maybe the Z series lowered the brand.

Originally Posted by dejanh

Sales will improve when the image improves. It's that simple. Actually, it's not that simple. I just wanted to illustrate that it goes both ways and that BlackBerry does need both, desperately. They need a strong presence as a brand, they need to portray a clear direction and confidence. They also need sales. In case of Q20 this is a tradeoff. They are lowering their brand to extract more sales. I hope that their play pays off and that they are not sitting idly by thinking that the extra sales from the Q20 will do enough to uplift the brand so as to help repair the brand image. It's a fine line and it is my opinion that the Q20 move is a hasty one and quite possibly wrong. We will see I guess.

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This horse is dead. Move on before the cops arrive.

Powered by BlackBerry

Originally Posted by xBURK

This horse is dead. Move on before the cops arrive.

Powered by BlackBerry

Or Jason Bourne.

Posted with my ? Q10.

What is a tool belt? Sorry...

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Originally Posted by dejanh

BlackBerry is not in a financial position to be catering to tiny markets. As-is they have too many devices. They should have released only the Z10 (with better specs, like the Z30), the Q10, and the Z3. All else was and will be a colossal waste of money. Q5 was a failure, Z30 is in principle a failure, even though I own one as it was too late to the market and really should have been the Z10, and the Q20 will just continue this trend. Diversification in product portfolio is very expensive and not something BlackBerry can support.At launch they should have had the Z3 at sub $200 prices off contract as the very first phone. They should have had the Q10 positioned as a middle tier device at around $400 off contract, and the Z10 with upgraded specs for around $550 off contract. That would have significantly boosted the chance of BlackBerry 10 taking off.


I said a source, you know, like one with actual stats or some concrete data. Not a user's personal experience.

You guys really make me laugh.

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tiny markets? im sure that toolbelt phones outsold all others by 2 to 1 or better its the touch devices with the tiny market where bb is conerned. soon as they start selling more touch devices that querty devices i agree with u until them im gonna use bb as long as they make button phones. when they no longer make button phones ill prob use whoever else is. if i have to go touch id prob get and android cuz of the apps but really i hate touch devices .

Originally Posted by elgolfman

What is a tool belt? Sorry...

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the tool belt is the 4 buttons and the track pad on legacy devices

Originally Posted by th.1977

the tool belt is the 4 buttons and the track pad on legacy devices

Ahhh - dang, old school. I like the buttons and track pad. Give me a device about the size of the 9930 or slightly larger with a tool belt and OS 10. Sometimes it's tough to use the Q10 while driving as you have to look at the phone and may need two hands. The track pad would eliminate that (a true one hand device) and be safer to use in the car. LOL.

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yep the q20 will have the toolbelt and a 3.5" screen

Originally Posted by gabbleratchet

But is image more important than substance? Is it more important to continue to make an inferior product so that we can claim that the image hasn't changed?

The Q10 is a good phone, and elegant. It represents a break from the past. It uses the new, modern BB10 UI. It's a good marketing story, if your most important goal is to not be the "same old blackberry".

Unfortunately the Q10 is not as efficient as a communication device as the old BBOS devices were. I don't think it's possible to make an all-touch UI that is as fast as a belt-based UI. I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

So, they have a choice. Stick with the new elegant, less efficient UI, and continue to market the new image. Or they could make a new and better and more efficient phone that borrows some elements from previous models.

Personally, I care more about substance than image. I want the better phone, the more efficient UI.

I also think that a better phone is easier to sell than a phone that is consistent with the current brand message.

If they execute properly on the Q20, they will end up with the most efficient phone ever for high-volume business communication. Who cares if the belt looks "retro"? They will have an actual product with an actual unique selling point that is relevant to an actual market segment.



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You said it! Totally right.

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....