[ShamrockRagEll]

I'd like to start this thread with a quote by Steve Jobs (yes the apple guy)

It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
? Steve Jobs

Why am I doing this? Because I think bringing back the tool belt bears a lot of dangers:

1. By listening to the long term blackberry customers you might make the fan base happy, but scare off a lot of potential clients. Why? Because you go back to a style people think looks dated.

2. You destroy everything you build up with BlackBerry 10. When I got my z10 I could brag about how os10 is innovative and completely gesture based - it won't be anymore with the tool belt. You will make the os feel archaic.

3. If all brands would have listened to what the clients would have liked we'd probably wouldn't have computers, phones or any other invention one person thought of. And that's exactly what I want to say:

Innovation doesn't come from a group of people. It comes from an individual/one company with a Vision. I hope blackberry has one and isn't just trying to please us BlackBerry fans from now on. I think it could be their end.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

OMG, I swear, if I read another one of these making these same claims...

It won't "scare away" potential new customers because it's not REPLACING any of the other formats!!!!! If you think a normal qwerty or an all-touch device will generate more interest from outsiders, THEY WILL STILL BE MADE AND RELEASED!! This is in ADDITION to these existing styles of phone, not IN PLACE of...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[berriedinblack]

Damn, you're right! Let me add something: blackberry wants to be the brand for people who want to get things done, people that alway know what they want and how to get it - businessmen - so there should be no room for childish games, no room for "I can't decide"!
If they bring back that ugly belt, it let's people believe that the guys behind BlackBerry don't know what they want.

Posted via CB10

[nikesu]

Why so much hate for tool belt? John Chen & his team know exactly what they are doing. Don't tell me you are smarter than them. You are talking as if BB is bringing back tool belt to all its flagship devices. This is only for Q20....the rest are untouched. Calm down! It's always good to have options & choices. Look at Samsung, how many Galaxy versions they launch each year.

[ShamrockRagEll]

Even if the q20 is just one model in the portfolio it makes a statement. Being in advertising myself I can tell you: it's not a good one. People will say "why are they taking a step back? Did the "all gesture based" concept not work out?" people will think that blackberry doesn't know what they want or that they failed. And people want to be on the winning side, so they will get an android or iPhone.

That is just how I feel about it. I hope I'm wrong trust me.

Posted via CB10

[serbanescu]

They should have offered the "Classic" line from the beginning - it would have made the transition to BB10 a lot smoother.

Doing it now still is a very good decision in my opinion, they have a lot of legacy users in the business sector ready to upgrade and probably many of those like to keep their use habits.

There is nothing wrong to listen to your user base and give them choices, as long as the tool belt solution is carefully implemented on BB10.


--------------------

Screen Timeout app - keep your BB10 screen awake as long as you need

[imz]

You guys... "people" won't think anything relax.

Let me tell you about people.

"People" don't even know bb10 exists.
"People" think the Q10 is the new bold.
"People" aren't aware of the z10 and z30
"People" besides CB, don't know or care about QNX
"People" don't know about the whole gesture OS except the BlackBerry fan brigade who have been shouting about it.

Blackberry is in a position that it could use the samsung logo and call it the Microsoft Z50 and nobody would notice or care because of the non existent advertising it does.

You really think the superbowl ads or these silly peek and flow commercials tell the full story about bb10 = gesture this and that, the "people" know nothing... yet, whereas "you people "go LOOKING for ads, big difference between you AND them.

Posted via CB10

[nhanken]

Why do you think Samsung is the #1 cell phone maker in the world now? .... because they give people choices with their Samsung Galaxy this, Mega that etc etc! 5~6 years ago Samsung phones were like garbage but they have tons of cash to spend on marketing and they can afford to continuously put ads in people's faces to tell them to get Samsung devices! BlackBerry cannot do the kind of marketing that Samsung or Apple does because they need to refocus and rebuild their tarnished brand.

If you like the Z10, then stick with the Z10. People have choices here buddy - new buyers who are using the Bold 9900 won't switch to Q10 because they'll want a Q20. BlackBerry won't take away the Q10 when they introduce the Q20 so relax! Thanks god you're not the CEO instead of John Chen.

Without Steve Jobs at the helm, do you think Apple is in a position to tell people that "they don't know what they want until we show them" mentality?

Steve Jobs said that the ipad 10 or something inch is the perfect size! Then why the hell did they make the ipad mini now?? Didn't Steve Jobs say iPhone 3.5 inch was the ideal size and anyone making a phone larger than that is an *****! How many inches are on the iPhone 5, 5c and 5s now?? Can you guess how many more inches the iPhone 6, 6s etc etc will have??

You're still not getting it OP? People want choices now and companies must cater to everyone's needs with different products in different sizes even if they're the same items. If Apple sticks to it's one size fits all mentality, they will be a victim of their own success.

If you open a business, wouldn't you rather have one extra customer than none?

Posted via CB10

[LordCrankypants]

If there were "potential clients" that BlackBerry is scaring off with the toolbelt, they would have already purchased a BB10 phone.

I don't feel the need for the toolbelt, but I also recognize that these phones aren't selling at the rate they need to in order to continue to be viable. They're not selling now, so something needs to change. Will this be the godsend the company is hoping for? Who knows. What's certain is that the number of BBOS loyalists who switch once the toolbelt is brought back will likely be higher than the amount of people who aren't buying into BB10 now.

JB

Posted from my brain to your screen via CBQ10

[ShamrockRagEll]

What im saying is that blackberry should not try to please everyone. What's next? A blackberry for people with only one thumb? A blackberry with a screen that looks more vibrant when you have blue eyes? I think they should be more stringent with what they want to say.

The reason few people know about bb10 is that they try to please everyone. They started bb10 as a consumer device that was purely gesture based. Since that didn't work they are now going back to please business people and legacy device owners by bringing back the belt. That way bb10 loses its claim to be completely gesture based. Do you guys really wonder why no one knows about bb10? For me it feels like they don't know what they want/what works.

And as for Samsung: their flagship devices are the galaxy S and the bigger galaxy note. That's two flagship phones everyone knows. They don't elevate their other hundred niche models to the same level of priority like black berry does.

And please, this is a discussion. No need to get personal here. Thank you.

Posted via CB10

[waterfrontmgmt]

The problem is not Blackberry, it's dumb customers.

I'd like to start this thread with a quote by Steve Jobs (yes the apple guy)

It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
? Steve Jobs

Why am I doing this? Because I think bringing back the tool belt bears a lot of dangers:

1. By listening to the long term blackberry customers you might make the fan base happy, but scare off a lot of potential clients. Why? Because you go back to a style people think looks dated.

2. You destroy everything you build up with BlackBerry 10. When I got my z10 I could brag about how os10 is innovative and completely gesture based - it won't be anymore with the tool belt. You will make the os feel archaic.

3. If all brands would have listened to what the clients would have liked we'd probably wouldn't have computers, phones or any other invention one person thought of. And that's exactly what I want to say:

Innovation doesn't come from a group of people. It comes from an individual/one company with a Vision. I hope blackberry has one and isn't just trying to please us BlackBerry fans from now on. I think it could be their end.

Posted via CB10

[waterfrontmgmt]

As long as they don't bring back the screen. That is soooo 1999.

[waterfrontmgmt]

I think Blackberry should just copy Apple and Android. and make off brand iPhones. They don't need their core market. Just start making iBerry's and iDroids! That's the ticket!

[nikesu]

Even if the q20 is just one model in the portfolio it makes a statement. Being in advertising myself I can tell you: it's not a good one. People will say "why are they taking a step back? Did the "all gesture based" concept not work out?" people will think that blackberry doesn't know what they want or that they failed. And people want to be on the winning side, so they will get an android or iPhone.

That is just how I feel about it. I hope I'm wrong trust me.

Posted via CB10

Here we are discussing the device we know nth about except the name Q20. Nobody knows what it looks like nor do we know how BB gonna implement its swipe gesture into it. Or there may not be no gestures at all in Q20. I understand swipe gesture is the integral part of BB10 and you seem to be fond of it. My guess is that Q20 will have all existing gestures + ability to perform the same thing by using tool belt. Its a win-win situation. With physical buttons you can do things in one click instead of 3-4 swipes.

If this is the case, will you be happy & accept tool belt??

[RyanGermann]

I think it's time for a new sub forum like the "abandoning blackberry? post here" but for "don't like the BB10 Belt? Post here" where these oft-refuted "warnings" can be... crammed.

Just my $.02

Posted via CB10

[Joe Clean]

Why am I doing this? Because I think bringing back the tool belt bears a lot of dangers:

1. By listening to the long term blackberry customers you might make the fan base happy, but scare off a lot of potential clients. Why? Because you go back to a style people think looks dated.

2. You destroy everything you build up with BlackBerry 10. When I got my z10 I could brag about how os10 is innovative and completely gesture based - it won't be anymore with the tool belt. You will make the os feel archaic.

There's one theory that most of us don't talk too much: BlackBerry doesn't exactly have many options, the next BlackBerry smartphone is do or die, it will determine whether the company still have a shot of survival or not. Bringing back the "belt", which most of loyal BlackBerry users love about (and familiar with), is one of that few choices available.

[garnok]

toolbelt phone being created to help people transition from old BB to newer one...

problem is toolbelt phone will launch in the end of the year, in that timeframe people who using toolbelt number will keep getting smaller moved to other phone / platform. if BB want to target old BB userbase, they have to do it now....in the end of the year it will be to late, and will be complete waste

[modbro]

The tool belt has now diluted the already reduced engineering capabilities of BB by focusing on another new direction. IMO

[slagman5]

What im saying is that blackberry should not try to please everyone. What's next? A blackberry for people with only one thumb? A blackberry with a screen that looks more vibrant when you have blue eyes? I think they should be more stringent with what they want to say.

The reason few people know about bb10 is that they try to please everyone. They started bb10 as a consumer device that was purely gesture based. Since that didn't work they are now going back to please business people and legacy device owners by bringing back the belt. That way bb10 loses its claim to be completely gesture based. Do you guys really wonder why no one knows about bb10? For me it feels like they don't know what they want/what works.

And as for Samsung: their flagship devices are the galaxy S and the bigger galaxy note. That's two flagship phones everyone knows. They don't elevate their other hundred niche models to the same level of priority like black berry does.

And please, this is a discussion. No need to get personal here. Thank you.

Posted via CB10

Oh yah, screw the people who actually want this feature, they should only appease people with the exact same opinion as yourself...

[slagman5]

As long as they don't bring back the screen. That is soooo 1999.

Or speakers and microphones. It should have a 3D scanner that reads your lips and transcribes it to the other person and you hear the message with an implant in your ear that stimulates your ear drums instead of this ancient technology of a speaker... lol. ;-)

[Bbnivende]

So BlackBerry should not listen when BlackBerry users say that the Z30 is too big and heavy for the screen size. The screen should be 1080 P and have a higher PPI. The design is lacking when compared with the latest HTC or LG. They need an android store in BBW. Forgot to mention that the device is too expensive.

No the Z30 is just great !

[ShamrockRagEll]

@Slagman :
Google is working on technologies like that. That's why they are liked. They look into the future instead of the past. Even if you find that laughable.

And btw I kind of like the tool belt. But it's not about what I like. It's about what's best for the brand. I have an opinion and you have one. And that's fine. That's why we are here for: constructively exchanging opinions. Not to hype everything blackberry does to the sky. That has never got anyone anywhere.
Posted via CB10

[ShamrockRagEll]

So BlackBerry should not listen when BlackBerry users say that the Z30 is too big and heavy for the screen size. The screen should be 1080 P and have a higher PPI. The design is lacking when compared with the latest HTC or LG. They need an android store in BBW. Forgot to mention that the device is too expensive.

No the Z30 is just great !

They should know that without having to ask the fans. But that's not what we are talking about here.


Posted via CB10

[waterfrontmgmt]

So what exactly has ranting about a new phone nobody has seen got anybody?

And btw I kind of like the tool belt. But it's not about what I like. It's about what's best for the brand. I have an opinion and you have one. And that's fine. That's why we are here for: constructively exchanging opinions. Not to hype everything blackberry does to the sky. That has never got anyone anywhere.
Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

They should know that without having to ask the fans. But that's not what we are talking about here.


Posted via CB10

What are we talking about then ... could it be that BB's with a tool belt out sold BB10 models 3 to 1 or that Qwerty BB's out sold Z models probably 4 to 1. Yes, no need to make any changes fearing the impact on current Z model sales.

Yes, BB needs to make Z models that consumers MIGHT want to purchase but they also need to attract BB owners like myself who would purchase a Q20 ( or a slider) but would not likely ever buy a Z model or a Q10.

Speaking of the core user base - why not a Z3 that is BIS capable. Not for me, but for developing countries that can not benefit from fast networks at this time.