11-20-16 02:42 PM
68 123
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  1. blackshark's Avatar
    The whole point of a brand is that you have an expectation that is met or exceeded when you buy from that brand. If you walked into a McDonalds one day and all they had were hemp shakes and a vegan salad bar you might not ever return. (nothing against those menu items, but its just not what you go to MickyD's for.)

    Such has been the experience with BB. We die hard users got used to, in fact relied on, a certain set of features over the decades and those features kept us coming back over and over, and in many cases those very features were the envy of users tied to other more flashy brands.
    But now with the advent of touch screens the coders have decided to get "clever" and seem to be changing things even in the non-touch related areas for no good reason, even on phones like the Classic that still retain hard buttons.

    Then there are those features that became ubiquitous for all cell phones, dating back to the brick-sized behemoths (a call accept or end button for instance). Sure, with an all touch screen phone there has to be a paradigm shift - although I've never understood how a swipe to answer is better than a virtual button press - how many phones have been dropped due to this silliness? So again, why mess with what we know and what worked so well? If Detroit suddenly required brake pedals on cars to need a double press to make them function there would be no end of chaos.

    Some of these features that have been monkeyed with include:
    -End call button
    -Accept Call button
    -The track pad
    -A proper alpha search
    -Grouping entries by a category so you could mass delete, save or respond
    -The new message indicator (I used to laugh at iPhone uses who had to turn on their phone to check for messages)
    -The lock screen
    - Dark themes
    - Finish on the rear of the device to reduce slipperiness
    - Crazy small scroll areas

    I could go on and on with this list as it relates to the Classic and OS10. None of these things has been superseded by a better solution and all could have remained as they were with no diminishment to the OS10 environment or experience.

    Back in the Bold days (even the last of the not-quite-Bolds) and just prior to OS10, you could in your Address book hit the B and be taken to the Bs. Now you get every entry that has a B in it. Who designed that? How useful is that? Ive never seen a directory that functioned in such a way. Are the coders at BB so young that they have no memory of how a phonebook worked? (in fact it takes more lines of code to do this kind of crazy sorting). I might even accept this if the entries that started with B came first and all the B containing entries came after - I can see value in that. But what exists is next to useless.

    I often need to collect emails or calls from certain contacts so that I can save or delete them en mass. This was easy on pre OS10 devices. Now, while you can search and get a good cluster of entries, you cant delete them all at once, you have to do it one at time over and over. I thought computers were supposed to remove repetitive tasks?

    And that indicator light!!! Sometimes it works and sometimes not. It annoys me when I know there are no new messages and its blinking away, but it infuriates me when, after being away from the phone for 20 minutes or so and then returning, it doesnt blink at all even though I have a ton of new messages. By the time I pick up the phone, turn it on and realize I have all these messages, Im really late in responding.

    My first OS10 device was a Q10 and it had a wonderful dark theme interface to choose from. But in an inconsistent functionality plan, BB got rid of all but the texting environment dark themes. Why? That kind of thing is a users choice and an easy option to keep and make available. Especially since on the Classic its an LCD so it's burning the same power whether you have a bright or dark theme. I understand why they went that route for the OLEDS but is good design only applicable when it benefits the hardware requirement and not the user? And more telling is why they got rid of it on some areas and not others? Is there no cohesive plan over there or are they just reacting?

    Who is checking the code? Who is checking the phones? Certainly it must be non BB users not to notice these missing functionalities. Who thought any of these choices were an advance? BBs core users are their greatest assets and marketing tool. Alienating them by removing tools we have come to rely on - and not offering something better - is probably why BB usership is in the state its in.

    I get that we need to move forward and that sometimes there is pain (the 32 bit vs 64 bit architecture switch over on desktops, or the Mac OSX shift) But all of these functions that have been changed on the BB are still with us and could easily work the way we got used to, without diminishing the OS10 experience - hell they could even work both ways with an additional menu setting: there could be two check boxes- 1) Sane, 2) Insane. Choose your torture level. This is the whole point of software - things can be changed without altering the hardware. And BB as Chen has said is a software company now - all evidence to the contrary.

    Perhaps the run to Android is less about being more compatible and hooking into a larger user base in which to sell BB security, and more due to the lack of a plan. If you cant innovate without screwing up world-leading features, I guess its time to get comfy on someone elses coat-tails.
    10-19-16 02:20 AM
  2. Uzi's Avatar
    Ok.

    posted via the last true BlackBerry
    anon(2313227) likes this.
    10-19-16 02:23 AM
  3. AmritD's Avatar
    The whole point of a brand is that you have an expectation that is met or exceeded when you buy from that brand. If you walked into a McDonalds one day and all they had were hemp shakes and a vegan salad bar you might not ever return. (nothing against those menu items, but its just not what you go to MickyD's for.)

    Such has been the experience with BB. We die hard users got used to, in fact relied on, a certain set of features over the decades and those features kept us coming back over and over, and in many cases those very features were the envy of users tied to other more flashy brands.
    But now with the advent of touch screens the coders have decided to get "clever" and seem to be changing things even in the non-touch related areas for no good reason, even on phones like the Classic that still retain hard buttons.

    Then there are those features that became ubiquitous for all cell phones, dating back to the brick-sized behemoths (a call accept or end button for instance). Sure, with an all touch screen phone there has to be a paradigm shift - although I've never understood how a swipe to answer is better than a virtual button press - how many phones have been dropped due to this silliness? So again, why mess with what we know and what worked so well? If Detroit suddenly required brake pedals on cars to need a double press to make them function there would be no end of chaos.

    Some of these features that have been monkeyed with include:
    -End call button
    -Accept Call button
    -The track pad
    -A proper alpha search
    -Grouping entries by a category so you could mass delete, save or respond
    -The new message indicator (I used to laugh at iPhone uses who had to turn on their phone to check for messages)
    -The lock screen
    - Dark themes
    - Finish on the rear of the device to reduce slipperiness
    - Crazy small scroll areas

    I could go on and on with this list as it relates to the Classic and OS10. None of these things has been superseded by a better solution and all could have remained as they were with no diminishment to the OS10 environment or experience.

    Back in the Bold days (even the last of the not-quite-Bolds) and just prior to OS10, you could in your Address book hit the B and be taken to the Bs. Now you get every entry that has a B in it. Who designed that? How useful is that? Ive never seen a directory that functioned in such a way. Are the coders at BB so young that they have no memory of how a phonebook worked? (in fact it takes more lines of code to do this kind of crazy sorting). I might even accept this if the entries that started with B came first and all the B containing entries came after - I can see value in that. But what exists is next to useless.

    I often need to collect emails or calls from certain contacts so that I can save or delete them en mass. This was easy on pre OS10 devices. Now, while you can search and get a good cluster of entries, you cant delete them all at once, you have to do it one at time over and over. I thought computers were supposed to remove repetitive tasks?

    And that indicator light!!! Sometimes it works and sometimes not. It annoys me when I know there are no new messages and its blinking away, but it infuriates me when, after being away from the phone for 20 minutes or so and then returning, it doesnt blink at all even though I have a ton of new messages. By the time I pick up the phone, turn it on and realize I have all these messages, Im really late in responding.

    My first OS10 device was a Q10 and it had a wonderful dark theme interface to choose from. But in an inconsistent functionality plan, BB got rid of all but the texting environment dark themes. Why? That kind of thing is a users choice and an easy option to keep and make available. Especially since on the Classic its an LCD so it's burning the same power whether you have a bright or dark theme. I understand why they went that route for the OLEDS but is good design only applicable when it benefits the hardware requirement and not the user? And more telling is why they got rid of it on some areas and not others? Is there no cohesive plan over there or are they just reacting?

    Who is checking the code? Who is checking the phones? Certainly it must be non BB users not to notice these missing functionalities. Who thought any of these choices were an advance? BBs core users are their greatest assets and marketing tool. Alienating them by removing tools we have come to rely on - and not offering something better - is probably why BB usership is in the state its in.

    I get that we need to move forward and that sometimes there is pain (the 32 bit vs 64 bit architecture switch over on desktops, or the Mac OSX shift) But all of these functions that have been changed on the BB are still with us and could easily work the way we got used to, without diminishing the OS10 experience - hell they could even work both ways with an additional menu setting: there could be two check boxes- 1) Sane, 2) Insane. Choose your torture level. This is the whole point of software - things can be changed without altering the hardware. And BB as Chen has said is a software company now - all evidence to the contrary.

    Perhaps the run to Android is less about being more compatible and hooking into a larger user base in which to sell BB security, and more due to the lack of a plan. If you cant innovate without screwing up world-leading features, I guess its time to get comfy on someone elses coat-tails.
    Mostly valid rant
    Unfortunately with BB10, BlackBerry tried to someone else instead of being what they were known for
    I mean can you imagine the Q10 didn't have speed dials on launch!?
    While there were some pretty awesome things about BB10, it should never have skipped features from BBOS. That's nothing but stupid.
    Well they lost their way which is why they are where they are
    Right now your best bet is to hope that you can get an option to at least buy a BlackBerry keyboard every couple of years.

    Z30STA100-2/10.3.2.2876
    nvsfg likes this.
    10-19-16 02:33 AM
  4. Lithtech's Avatar
    The classic would've been champion if it has a removable battery... WHAT ON EARTH WAS BLACKBERRY THINKING/DOING ?

    Do they even know? over time... batteries degrade? so we can easily replace it and its fresh again. (Good Example - THE BOLD9900)


    That's my biggest beef with the Classic, well any NEW BB phone. (ive tried it i love it... but didnt get the classic because of that factor cant replace battery) well you can with some DIY but no thanks.


    Bold9900
    Q10
    BB Torch 9810


    Top three in my view.
    johnsliderbb likes this.
    10-19-16 05:39 AM
  5. AmritD's Avatar
    The classic would've been champion if it has a removable battery... WHAT ON EARTH WAS BLACKBERRY THINKING/DOING ?

    Do they even know? over time... batteries degrade? so we can easily replace it and its fresh again. (Good Example - THE BOLD9900)


    That's my biggest beef with the Classic, well any NEW BB phone. (ive tried it i love it... but didnt get the classic because of that factor cant replace battery) well you can with some DIY but no thanks.


    Bold9900
    Q10
    BB Torch 9810


    Top three in my view.
    A lot of us would have liked removable batteries
    But we just loved the keyboard and toolbelt more than that so had no choice really

    Z30STA100-2/10.3.2.2876
    PantherBlitz likes this.
    10-19-16 05:46 AM
  6. keyboardweeb's Avatar
    I've never seen the indicator light to not come on when I have a new message, but I have seen it continue blinking until I dismiss the message.

    Say I get a text. I go into hub, open it, and read it. Light keeps blinking. I hit the back button to go back to hub from the text thread, and THEN the light stops. This makes no sense. It's not like it's just waiting a few seconds to stop after I read the message, it will happily blink away until I back out of the message.

    The other way to make the light stop blinking seems to be using the preview on the lock screen. If I preview a message from the lock screen, the light will stop blinking. This is convenient, but also contradicts the behavior above, and makes no sense in that context, especially since the preview only shows a portion if the message is long.
    10-19-16 06:11 AM
  7. ohcrapitscurtis's Avatar
    From someone who was never on BBOS (7 and prior) BB OS10 is awesome for me. (FYI i just bought a Bold 9900 last night to try it out as there's still a lot of love for this OS so it makes me curious).

    I've also never had a blinking light issue; except yes, it will continue to blink until I back out of it. Doesn't seem like a big deal though.

    I never noticed the address book single letter search button issue because I always just type the full name or keep typing until i see the name. However, now that you mention it, that does seem annoying.

    However, my overall statement is this: Blackberry was in an industry-leading position. Then iPhone came around in 2007 and changed everything for everybody. Google came around a year later and met/exceeded the needs of the rest of the world and left BB and Microsoft in the dust.

    All I can say is that if you no longer like what BB is putting out, there are three other options for OS out there ( iOS, Android, Windows Phone) I have used all three of them in the past and learned to hate them all, which is what led me to Blackberry and the Classic, which I love.

    I understand the frustration you have being a long time customer of one brand and learning to hate what they've done with it (that's why I left Pocket PC (Windows Mobile) back in the day and went to iPhone, which I hated, then went to Android, which was better, but still not for me, then to the new Windows Phone 8/10, then.... to the Blackberry.

    That's just me though. Brand loyalty is great and Blackberry has it in their base that's for sure, but sometimes you need to move on if they no longer meet your needs or make you happy with the device in your hand.


    For you OP - I would recommend the Priv or the DTEK50; Still Blackberry, but a "fresh OS" for you. Android really isn't that bad and it's probably pretty good coming from BB.
    10-19-16 11:36 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    Why are we talking about an OS that is not being developed any further anyway?
    10-19-16 11:45 AM
  9. conite's Avatar
    The classic would've been champion if it has a removable battery... WHAT ON EARTH WAS BLACKBERRY THINKING/DOING ?
    I, for one, would prefer a fixed battery. As the constantly restarting Q10s and Z10s will attest, battery contacts are just another wear/fail point.

    With standardized charging ports and chargers, USB ports, and power packs absolutely all over the place (even on airplanes), I'll take the more solid hardware choice.

    When the battery needs replacing, it's a five minute job anyway. I've replaced my Z30 battery.
    BBVill and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    10-19-16 11:49 AM
  10. Lithtech's Avatar
    Changing a battery shouldn't be a 'five minute job' and not everyone like you is handy in 'DIY' c'mon lol
    10-19-16 12:18 PM
  11. anon(2313227)'s Avatar
    Yes, they sold so many, why did they stop making them. People were lining up in droves to buy them.
    10-19-16 12:52 PM
  12. blackshark's Avatar
    I promise you, the battery is removable - have your brand-new BB holster snap at the beltclip while standing on a 3rd floor balcony and watch gravity do it for you - or it may have been my ear-piercing, case-opening, battery-removing "Noooooo!" - granted, it's a pretty sissy mutant-superhero power. So it appears that the flaws even extend to the branded peripherals. I've never had any of my other holsters snap at the swivel of the plastic clip (did I mention it was about a week old?). If it's not a manufacturing flaw it's a choice to save on plastic and make the parts thinner.

    I do use the phone a little differently: I don't like or use the lock screen, I like to wake the phone and jump right in and start using it. So I'm starting to wonder if I used the lock screen if the indicator light might work correctly or if everything might start working a little more correctly. It has been suggested by my provider that the unit is defective - but this is my second classic because of a defective keyboard on the first and both units did the same. I was ever hopeful that the first one was defective across the board and the second one would clear up all these oversights. Alas it was just a bad keyboard.
    In addition to the blinking light, the chimes I have set for general emails or texts will also chime long after the message has been sitting in the Hub. It chimes once when a cluster comes in but it seems like it wants to chime again perhaps for the others in the cluster that didn't get to ring the bell.

    And for those that are saying "quit griping and move to another platform", I hear you, but I love that keyboard. I have had a Samsung Galaxy but I just couldn't do with their virtual keyboard (or any of the software add on keyboards) what I can do with the BB keyboard. I use my BB's with one hand so much I think my brain has rewired.
    Most of my crew have either Apple or Android phones. The apple phones are horrible as phones - with me getting a first hand demo from the other end of the call - and I wanted a great phone first. In this area too BB has let things slide. I don't know if it's the antenna placement or more metal in the case or what, but the number of dropped calls or tunnel-voice calls I'm accused of has risen sharply. Ironically mine is the only phone that can make calls from one of our underground machine bunkers.
    Android though does seem to be way and the light. Users seem very happy especially with this latest 7 offering. I might have to convert and try that slip on keyboard I've seen for the 7. But even though I was a Mac guy for the longest time (and still am in some areas of my life) you won't find me drinking the kool-aid ("New this year! Colors!" - that's not an upgrade, that's a marketing plan)
    And then there's the battery life - I can go three days on my BB. But my wife has a 7 and charges once a day and one of my crew has an iPhone and charges two to three times a day.

    What does it say that the BB phone and the OS are no longer being developed? It feels like they are giving up.
    Last edited by blackshark; 10-19-16 at 03:47 PM. Reason: faulty quote symbols in font
    10-19-16 01:00 PM
  13. hplovecraft's Avatar
    A bit late for the BBOS vs. BB10 complaint (we had that plenty). But always like to see people who are passionate about using their device.....

    CB10 on my Classic
    10-19-16 01:38 PM
  14. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    I often need to collect emails or calls from certain contacts so that I can save or delete them en mass. This was easy on pre OS10 devices. Now, while you can search and get a good cluster of entries, you cant delete them all at once, you have to do it one at time over and over. I thought computers were supposed to remove repetitive tasks?
    Tap and hold the date header in the list of messages. In the menu that slides out from the right of the screen you will see a "Mark Prior Read" option.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10
    ohcrapitscurtis likes this.
    10-19-16 02:07 PM
  15. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Why are we talking about an OS that is not being developed any further anyway?
    Because this is a BlackBerry fan forum, frequented by BlackBerry fans, many of whom still use that OS.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10
    10-19-16 02:09 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    Because this is a BlackBerry fan forum, frequented by BlackBerry fans, many of whom still use that OS.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10
    I understand that, but it would seem the OP is requesting changes that will never come. Perhaps he is not aware of the current status of BB10.
    10-19-16 02:17 PM
  17. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    I understand that, but it would seem the OP is requesting changes that will never come. Perhaps he is not aware of the current status of BB10.
    He is a BB10 user making some observations, pointing out perceived shortcomings of his phone, and suggesting changes. Whether or not the changes will ever happen is irrelevant.

    The TV show Firefly has long been canceled and off the air. So should fans of the show just stop talking about it since none of the criticisms or suggestions they continue to make will ever happen?

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10
    10-19-16 02:23 PM
  18. conite's Avatar

    The TV show Firefly has long been canceled and off the air. So should fans of the show just stop talking about it since none of the criticisms or suggestions they continue to make will ever happen?

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10
    If said individual was coming up with suggestions on the future evolution of the show with full knowledge that it was off the air, then fine. Of course.

    Otherwise, someone may wish to break it to him.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    10-19-16 02:29 PM
  19. blackshark's Avatar
    In fact the masses can make a difference - and since we've gone down the genre path - In 1963 StarTrek was canceled, done, dead. And even though the viewership wasn't high, there were enough fans that a letter writing campaign brought it back, and the rest is history. Have we become so complacent, so jaded with the planned obsolescence baked into these devices that we've forgotten to stand up for quality ideas?

    I wasn't aware that development had stopped on OS10 - it had a shorter shelf-life than most Microsoft hardware products. But being a UX/UI developer, I know first hand how easy it is to make these kind of changes, and I'm both frustrated and boggled that BB has left things in such a sorry state.

    Can a small group of dedicated individuals ever hope to make a difference? It's the only thing that ever has!
    anon(6038817) likes this.
    10-19-16 02:58 PM
  20. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    In fact the masses can make a difference - and since we've gone down the genre path - In 1963 StarTrek was canceled, done, dead. And even though the viewership wasn't high, there were enough fans that a letter writing campaign brought it back, and the rest is history. Have we become so complacent, so jaded with the planned obsolescence baked into these devices that we've forgotten to stand up for quality ideas?

    I wasn't aware that development had stopped on OS10 - it had a shorter shelf-life than most Microsoft hardware products. But being a UX/UI developer, I know first hand how easy it is to make these kind of changes, and I'm both frustrated and boggled that BB has left things in such a sorry state.

    Can a small group of dedicated individuals ever hope to make a difference? It's the only thing that ever has!
    BB10 End of Life has not been officially announced and BlackBerry continues to affirm their commitment to the platform.

    Two more OS updates are planned (although they are supposedly security updates only, but nobody outside of BlackBerry really knows for sure).

    Top brass at BlackBerry has said there is interest from third parties in licensing BB10 and they are actively exploring that possibility.

    All that said, they have no plans to update SDKs or the Android Runtime. And yes, they have let the vast majority of their BB10 dev team go.

    Technically, the platform is in a holding pattern, but it's not quite dead yet.



    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-19-16 03:08 PM
  21. werkregen's Avatar
    You shouldn't speak ill of the dead...
    10-20-16 06:53 AM
  22. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    You shouldn't speak ill of the dead...
    My Q10 is alive and kicking.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-20-16 07:42 AM
  23. werkregen's Avatar
    My Q10 is alive and kicking.

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    Yeah sure, so is my Nokia E71.
    10-20-16 09:10 AM
  24. mh1983's Avatar
    Why are we talking about an OS that is not being developed any further anyway?
    Why not? It's a BB forum and it's fair game. Otherwise, let's close the BB10 subforums.

    The OP put "rant" in the subject too, which is appreciated.

    What would be acceptable in your eyes to discuss in these forums?
    10-20-16 09:55 AM
  25. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Yeah sure, so is my Nokia E71.
    Awesome! Do you still use it?

    Posted from my Q10 via CB10
    10-20-16 09:57 AM
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