[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I understand the OP frustrations... we have all heard then repeated for three years now. Yes BlackBerry made a mistake in moving too far away from the "old" BlackBerry experience, and it takes time to get use to the differences in BBOS and BB10.

But OP you owned a Q10 and was aware of how it worked, you bought a Classic after last summer's move to "support mode only". It is what it is... at this point we all know it could and should be better, but it's not going to be. You either "settle" and use it or you move on.

[anon(8063781)]

Back in the Bold days (even the last of the not-quite-Bolds) and just prior to OS10, you could in your Address book hit the “B” and be taken to the “B’s”. Now you get every entry that has a “B” in it. Who designed that? How useful is that?

You can't ask questions like that on these forums. All change is progress. Buy a new phone. Be cool. Get the right apps and join the collective.

[anon(6038817)]

You can't ask questions like that on these forums. All change is progress. Buy a new phone. Be cool. Get the right apps and join the collective.

Everyone's doing it, so how bad can it be?

[blackshark]

All change is progress? I would agree with the opposite, but a dumb change is not necessarily progress.
Look, I stuck with BB because of the form factor and because the company seemed committed to providing excellent communication tools for business professionals who don't want to waste time and want efficient ways of dealing with the barrage of information coming at them every second. The other manufacturers seemed more intent on providing a good Pokemon Go experience or giving budding photojournalists the best camera they could fit into a postage stamp or being able to tweet while watching a movie. The other platforms were, by their nature, more of a distraction tool rather than a tool that let you focus on the business at hand. And that's what differentiated BB for me.

So when I chose and and continued to choose BB, I expected things like the address book to be able to sort things alphabetically like we have been doing since the alphabet was invented, not in some new ADHD kind of way. (this particular change is certainly not progress and I'll bet its simply a coding mistake). I expected to be able to have a secure experience, and that extrapolates to preventing my jeans from dialing the phone unexpectedly. I expected "at a glance" information that a busy professional appreciates - a wink of that colored LED let you know whether that new message deserves attention or it can be pushed off till later. And I expected not to be embarrassed by poor call quality.

I wouldn't be ranting about any of this if BB hadn't already achieved these things in spades. But it feels, much like a previous poster, BB wanted progress for progress sake and broke a few things in the process.

Really it comes down to BB taking their eye of the ball (or is that the "puck"?). They got clobbered by the hype machine of Google and Apple and started flailing to keep afloat. It feels like they had to try and copy instead of charting a coarse of their own. I can't say whether staying the coarse and relying on users (who wanted the kind of experience in which BB excelled) to see the company through the turbulence would have kept them above water, but I guess there's a reason the game is called "Follow the Leader". If you are following, you aren't the leader.

[AmritD]

All change is progress? I would agree with the opposite, but a dumb change is not necessarily progress.
Look, I stuck with BB because of the form factor and because the company seemed committed to providing excellent communication tools for business professionals who don't want to waste time and want efficient ways of dealing with the barrage of information coming at them every second. The other manufacturers seemed more intent on providing a good Pokemon Go experience or giving budding photojournalists the best camera they could fit into a postage stamp or being able to tweet while watching a movie. The other platforms were, by their nature, more of a distraction tool rather than a tool that let you focus on the business at hand. And that's what differentiated BB for me.

So when I chose and and continued to choose BB, I expected things like the address book to be able to sort things alphabetically like we have been doing since the alphabet was invented, not in some new ADHD kind of way. (this particular change is certainly not progress and I'll bet its simply a coding mistake). I expected to be able to have a secure experience, and that extrapolates to preventing my jeans from dialing the phone unexpectedly. I expected "at a glance" information that a busy professional appreciates - a wink of that colored LED let you know whether that new message deserves attention or it can be pushed off till later. And I expected not to be embarrassed by poor call quality.

I wouldn't be ranting about any of this if BB hadn't already achieved these things in spades. But it feels, much like a previous poster, BB wanted progress for progress sake and broke a few things in the process.

Really it comes down to BB taking their eye of the ball (or is that the "puck"?). They got clobbered by the hype machine of Google and Apple and started flailing to keep afloat. It feels like they had to try and copy instead of charting a coarse of their own. I can't say whether staying the coarse and relying on users (who wanted the kind of experience in which BB excelled) to see the company through the turbulence would have kept them above water, but I guess there's a reason the game is called "Follow the Leader". If you are following, you aren't the leader.

Obviously they broke a lot of things which is why they are they are
When BB10 came out, three were 85 million people using BBOS phones
Even if half of them would have bought a BB10 phone, it would have been a different story today
But BlackBerry, instead of going after the 85 million people tried to go after the people who had already left BlackBerry for other Operating systems.
They came up with good things but it came at the cost of foregoing their very core functionality (atleast at launch of BB10)
Don't know who is to blame for the so many stupid decisions, Theins or the Co-founders
But unfortunately, we will just have to move onto using a much unproductive phone. Rant as much as you want that's reality

Z30STA100-2/10.3.2.2876

[keyboardweeb]

Not sure BB10 is completely to blame for the fall of BlackBerry.

Apple is a marketing genius while Google just flooded the market and had a ton of goodwill built up already. Android was pretty rough in the early days. It was sustained mainly by the tight Google apps integration, low prices and multitudes of free apps.

How many free apps in BlackBerry World are worth the bits they're printed on? Not many. Coming from Android to BB10, that was the biggest culture shock to me.

Posted via CB10

[anon(6038817)]

All change is progress? I would agree with the opposite, but a dumb change is not necessarily progress.
Look, I stuck with BB because of the form factor and because the company seemed committed to providing excellent communication tools for business professionals who don't want to waste time and want efficient ways of dealing with the barrage of information coming at them every second. The other manufacturers seemed more intent on providing a good Pokemon Go experience or giving budding photojournalists the best camera they could fit into a postage stamp or being able to tweet while watching a movie. The other platforms were, by their nature, more of a distraction tool rather than a tool that let you focus on the business at hand. And that's what differentiated BB for me.

So when I chose and and continued to choose BB, I expected things like the address book to be able to sort things alphabetically like we have been doing since the alphabet was invented, not in some new ADHD kind of way. (this particular change is certainly not progress and I'll bet its simply a coding mistake). I expected to be able to have a secure experience, and that extrapolates to preventing my jeans from dialing the phone unexpectedly. I expected "at a glance" information that a busy professional appreciates - a wink of that colored LED let you know whether that new message deserves attention or it can be pushed off till later. And I expected not to be embarrassed by poor call quality.

I wouldn't be ranting about any of this if BB hadn't already achieved these things in spades. But it feels, much like a previous poster, BB wanted progress for progress sake and broke a few things in the process.

Really it comes down to BB taking their eye of the ball (or is that the "puck"?). They got clobbered by the hype machine of Google and Apple and started flailing to keep afloat. It feels like they had to try and copy instead of charting a coarse of their own. I can't say whether staying the coarse and relying on users (who wanted the kind of experience in which BB excelled) to see the company through the turbulence would have kept them above water, but I guess there's a reason the game is called "Follow the Leader". If you are following, you aren't the leader.

I'm pretty sure he was being facetious with the "change is progress" remark.

I'm currently using a Q10 as my daily driver, but I've been seriously thinking about trying a Classic.

You're making me rethink things, though. I'm concerned that the toolbelt doesn't behave like it did on the Bold 9900/9930. I mean, the "End Call" button should end the call the moment it is pressed, regardless of what you are doing, shouldn't it?

You are really making me want to dust off my 9930 and give it another serious look. There are some fantastic software improvements in BB10, but the basic, rock-solid functionality that was so reliable in BBOS never really seemed to materialize.

[blackshark]

Sorry if tongue in cheek was intended with "all change is progress" - the problem with text only communication - no intonation. I didn't mean to pile on.
To make sure I haven't been talking out of my other end, I have all my blackberries out here while I've been ranting to make sure my memory wasn't just a dreamy warp of reality.
I've got my 9900, my 9000, my baby bold (9630?) my Q10 and my currently in use Classic sitting right here. (there have been a few more but the batteries and trackballs have sadly not survived)

One thing I haven't talked about is the trackpad. I get why they went to a digital device over the track ball (lint, dirt and constant pressing shortened the life of these little units like no other) but it seems the functionality of the trackpad has also gotten worse over the years. The digital proportional aspect of the current offering is far from desirable. For me it seems to take a while (alright, a few too many ms) to get going so by the time it catches up to you, you've over shot the mark in a text or email you are trying to correct. Just try moving the caret over just one character. i find it tough. I also have never been able to correct the first letter on the left side of the screen. I just can't get the caret to that first character. I end up having to delete a few just to get back there or go up to the end of the previous line and work my way forward.

I also find the acceleration curve once you are moving doesn't match any of the previous devices and, at least for me, is troublesome. I thought with the return of the tool belt i would be able to edit easier without my finger touching down on the touch screen and blotting out what I was trying to hit. But I've found I rarely use the trackpad to help me edit due to these issues.

Then there is the scrolling use of it. I can't tell you how many times I've scrolled the touch screen as my thumb rides just off the pad and is detected by the screen itself. Here too the acceleration curve comes into play. Scrolling through emails seems laborious with the trackpad because the acceleration curve (or perhaps lack of one) makes you work for it.There is a sensitivity setting but nothing to change the acceleration as any good desktop mouse has in it's control panel. Again the touch screen is much faster. My Q10 was better in this area.
To be fair I like to use the phone quickly and with one hand so the track pad was my main reason for BB. Not so much any more.

Finally, as a business phone, there is the shocking lack of a percent sign on the outer keyboard. The dollar sign is there and you don't even have to shift to get it, but I can't tell you how many times a day I have to get out the symbol lib for a %. Mercifully the percent is in the top right corner so that reduces the eyeball search.
There is however an @ when you don't really need it on a BB, since it's smart enough to know you can't have a space in an address and it sticks and @ in there for you.

[blackshark]

One last thing on size - the extra tool belt space plus (I believe) a slightly bigger screen, combined with a centered power button make that reach to shut it off just a little harder (with one hand). For those of us without large manly hands it's a new kind of work out stretch. I thought I would get used to it but the slightly smaller form factors of the previous models made this so much easier.
There's also the more slippery back than the Q10. It makes one-handing things a little harder. To be fair, the back on my Classic has gotten better as it's gotten dirtier, so their may have been mold release still hanging around when it still had that new phone smell. But that Q10 back was stellar.

[blackshark]

Just so you don't think I'm a Debbie Downer: the back button and the menu button on the tool belt, plus the functionality of the trackpad press to send emails etc. (who decided the onscreen send button should be as far away from your thumb as possible?) - all of these things are worth the price of the upgrade from the Q10.

[keyboardweeb]

When I hit end call, it ends the call. Not sure what's up with op's phone.

Posted via CB10

[ankenn]

As far as I am aware, the blinking notification light will go out if you go to the hub but do not open any messages. LED will stop.

[blackshark]

This is my second classic and that end call button remains my biggest gripe - it's possible I have another lemon especially when I see others saying their indicator light also works as advertised and mine does not (I have many custom indicators set with every color used - could this be part of it? - but then that's what it's for!)

[anon(6038817)]

Just so you don't think I'm a Debbie Downer: the back button and the menu button on the tool belt, plus the functionality of the trackpad press to send emails etc. (who decided the onscreen send button should be as far away from your thumb as possible?) - all of these things are worth the price of the upgrade from the Q10.

You've given the most detailed explanation of trackpad use on a Classic that I've come across and I have found it extremely helpful.

And while I do appreciate what the toolbelt can add to the BB10 experience, your detailed explanations of the quirks and challenges you've encountered in every-day use may have put the final nail in the Classic coffin for me.

It's obvious BB10 was not originally designed with a toolbelt in mind, so the implementation - while certainly useful in some ways - comes across as half-baked.

As much as I would love to have a toolbelt, I just don't think the afterthought BB10 implementation of it in the Classic is worth giving up the swappable battery, more compact size, and better overall build quality of the Q10.

The more research I do, the more I think about it, I may just be riding the Q10 into the sunset (or find myself back on my 9930 until BIS and/or 3G support is officially killed by Verizon).

[blackshark]

Glad to help (without the hype).
I have alluded to it but I do suspect that there is something up with this unit. But my provider did a deep diagnostic and found nothing. And it is my second after a keyboard hardware failure. Both had all of these issues. I have not had a pile-on from posters with regards to the functionality I'm complaining about so I'm not sure if it's just me or this is the state of the tech.
I also use it at high speed and to its full extent (big address book, lots of custom notifications, no lock screen, thousands and thousands of emails kept for very long times, all hot keys have been customized - but also very few third party apps and none that lurk, no third party ring tones - it's a really clean phone and OS). I do however have a few custom (we wrote them) android apps we use for tracking things - but they are fired and then end, again not lurking. So perhaps it's the way I have it configured that has led to these issues.

I do find the phone slow - I must keep the phone app open in the background or I'm waiting and waiting and waiting around for it when I start bashing numbers to call someone, but even with it running (but not focused) I can type in the whole ten digits long before I even get to see them on the screen.
I do like the assistant but find I end up yelling "No!" a lot through misunderstanding - "Hey Google" I find has better AI and speech recognition.
The external sound suppression tech is great but not when on headset or earbuds. I don't remember if the Q10 had those dedicated mics for that.

Battery life is stellar and the return to the LCD is super bright outdoors (that was one big downer for the Q10 - very dim outside with it's OLED)

I too like the smaller form factor of the Q10 - man that fit my hand well. I don't know how these people use things like the Note 2. Do they knock themselves out when they answer the phone? ..."Hello?" clunk! A bigger screen would be nice for sure but you can't have it both ways. And I'd rather pop for portability and a slim profile.
I also can't seem to get used to an all touch screen phone. I'm always either treating it too delicately (and thereby risk dropping it) or touching the screen and setting something running. I've noticed this new paradigm of people walking around like waiters with a tray of champagne - that's how they hold the phone while talking. It's not private as it has to be on speaker, and the phone leaps from their finger tips far too often. So why? Is it cultural? or bad design?

I'm not so bummed about the battery change thing. I figure the planned obsolescence in the OS and software, along with the carrier's need to upgrade their network will make the unit obsolete long before the battery fails. I've only ever replaced one on my original Bold. And it is doable on the classic just not simple. (drop it from 3 stories and it's a sinch!)

I did find I was swiping over and over on the Q10 to try and answer a call - again the "end" was a button why not the option for the same on pickup? (i know, I know, but if the sleep function worked as it should, then that lipstick in my purse wouldn't accidentally answer it - the fact that I might have liptsick or a purse is quite disconcerting to my wife.

The keyboard felt better on the Q10 - less resistance to the keys - that's not nostalgia, just tried it - and the keyboard is a little larger on the Classic - not sure if that's good or bad
There was a little arrow or something on the middle (mute) button between the volume buttons on the Q10 and that led to more accurate use of those buttons - you could feel it rasp your finger. I've muted quite a few people by accident with the Classic without any kind of differentiation on that button. But really - who puts a mute button between volume buttons? What are the chances you might want to change the volume on a call? Oops!

Going back to the Q10 I often have to pause to figure it out when I don't have that back button or the menu button on the tool belt. its like my fingers have forgotten what to do. To me, when a button will do, a swipe is the wrong answer. Swiping through a list, sure, but a simple press is more definitive than a swipe when its an on or off thing. Especially when that swipe can trigger something else.

And I hate hate hate the small swipeable text entry areas (one line or less) or the small areas that are hot areas to swipe in - it's too narrow for the swipe and you end up continuing your swipe into other areas outside. ie Once you set the alarm time, there is a very small area below to bring up the vibration and day of the week settings. This is not an issue if you do those things first, but once that time set area opens it overtakes (almost) the entire screen and you can only move the interface up from this small leftover area below.

And lets talk colors. The native weather app has white text on a light blue sky. In the same vein, after 5pm. the calendar has light grey text on white. Very unreadable. I think these might be hold overs from the Q10's glorious dark theme that only remains in the texting area. Or just bad design.

They seem to have forgotten on the Classic that there is a menu button - a physical one - why is there also one on-screen taking up real estate? - oh I know, because they couldn't be bothered altering to the OS to best suite the hardware. I guess they knew they would only have to support this device for a heartbeat in phone history. But they returned to bright themes for this unit alone because it's back to constant power LCD.

While this ranting may not help the current situation, if you don't demand change, it's never comes.

[anon(6038817)]

Again, great observations and explanations about your experiences. I'm sorry your experience has been less than stellar. I hate to even suggest this, but it may be the sheer number of contacts, emails, and texts you are managing that accounts for at least some of the lag. For example, I have seen other CB threads where people complain their text message interface is painfully slow, but on the suggestion of other users they delete hundreds of old text messages and notice an improvement in performance. But didn't BBOS handle ridiculous amounts of contacts, emails, and texts like a champ?

One of my biggest gripes about the Q10 is that typing and editing large swaths of text (which I do often) can be a pain. The typing experience itself is brilliant, but trying to use the touch-screen edit tools can be sooooo frustrating at times. By contrast, the text editing experience on my 9930 was heavenly. The laser precision of the trackpad allowed me to get the cursor exactly where I wanted it each and every time. And selecting, copying/cutting, and pasting text was also a breeze.

On the Q10, it's a crap shoot as to whether I can even get the cursor on the line I want the first time I tap, let alone the exact location. And there seems to be no rhyme or reason to whether or not that big cursor-moving-circle-thingy even appears. I regularly find myself tapping all over the screen multiple times trying to get it to appear. Honestly, I've found it easier (not perfect, but easier) to use the iOS touch screen interface for text editing.

I'm still willing to give the Classic a shot. Everyone uses their phone differently and I may find it actually works well for me.

[slagman5]

I have to say, their search algorithm is the most ******** thing in the world. What you said about hitting a B and instead of going to the B's it'll include everything with a B in it, yes, stupid as hell. A great example of just how dumb this new algorithm is compared to the good ol BBOS days, I have my mom as "Mom" in my phone. If I typed "mom" in the search or in the address book, I'll get: Andrea's Mom, Andrew's Mom, Jenny's Mom, basically everyone's mother before mine, just because they contain the letters "mom" in them and are in alphabetical order. Seriously, why isn't the entry that matches my query 100% showing up first? It would have in BBOS. So I definitely agree with you there.

Not the only thing I agree with, but it's definitely something that has driven me up the wall about BB10 since it came out.

That and the loss of alpha-numeric phone number dialing... Again, something that worked great in BBOS that for some reason the geniuses at BB felt they should randomly remove...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

Again, great observations and explanations about your experiences. I'm sorry your experience has been less than stellar. I hate to even suggest this, but it may be the sheer number of contacts, emails, and texts you are managing that accounts for at least some of the lag. For example, I have seen other CB threads where people complain their text message interface is painfully slow, but on the suggestion of other users they delete hundreds of old text messages and notice an improvement in performance. But didn't BBOS handle ridiculous amounts of contacts, emails, and texts like a champ?

One of my biggest gripes about the Q10 is that typing and editing large swaths of text (which I do often) can be a pain. The typing experience itself is brilliant, but trying to use the touch-screen edit tools can be sooooo frustrating at times. By contrast, the text editing experience on my 9930 was heavenly. The laser precision of the trackpad allowed me to get the cursor exactly where I wanted it each and every time. And selecting, copying/cutting, and pasting text was also a breeze.

On the Q10, it's a crap shoot as to whether I can even get the cursor on the line I want the first time I tap, let alone the exact location. And there seems to be no rhyme or reason to whether or not that big cursor-moving-circle-thingy even appears. I regularly find myself tapping all over the screen multiple times trying to get it to appear. Honestly, I've found it easier (not perfect, but easier) to use the iOS touch screen interface for text editing.

I'm still willing to give the Classic a shot. Everyone uses their phone differently and I may find it actually works well for me.

Yes, the lag in the text messages is a bummer indeed. And while the trackpad is smaller on the Classic, it'll definitely relieve the headache you're getting trying to move the cursor around with the Q10. It's partially why my Q10 is now my kitchen timer and I use the Classic full-time...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[TheBirdDog]

I often need to collect emails or calls from certain contacts so that I can save or delete them en mass. This was easy on pre OS10 devices. Now, while you can search and get a good cluster of entries, you can�t delete them all at once, you have to do it one at time over and over. I thought computers were supposed to remove repetitive tasks?

I didn't notice if anyone had already mentioned this but you absolutely CAN do this with the Classic. It is also a pain for me that this functionality is not possible in the touchscreen world and, while some were claiming the trackpad was obsolete and redundant when BlackBerry first announced the Classic, I was actually touting the opposite and think that it should be included on all devices - even full touch screen. Apple and Samsung have their dedicated 'home' buttons, why not have the trackpad as the one congruent piece that ties all of their hardware together? Anyway, too late for that, I suppose. However, if you are still using your Classic, a simple hold shift + scroll on the trackpad will allow you to select as many messages as you want within the Hub. Definitely useful and would [/will] miss not having it when the time comes to step into the less efficient future.

[Nguyen1]

He is a BB10 user making some observations, pointing out perceived shortcomings of his phone, and suggesting changes. Whether or not the changes will ever happen is irrelevant.

The TV show Firefly has long been canceled and off the air. So should fans of the show just stop talking about it since none of the criticisms or suggestions they continue to make will ever happen?

Posted from my Z30 via CB10

I love firefly! The movie was decent but the show was better! Shiny!

Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE

[blackshark]

Who knew? Thanks for that shift advice. That'll do the trick.

And I'm starting to wonder, now that I've read all the replies, if my problems with the end call button stem from the phone lagging in performance. I just ended a call with the phone asleep and it worked as advertised. But I've also just had one where the end call button didn't do anything but make the phone active - the caller remained on the line. I'll bet I'm hitting the end button twice when the first one doesn't do the job and then of course that brings up the preview screen. So its a bit of me not using the device correctly but still, why no hang up on first press? And why the inconsistency? As I've mentioned that was always the benefit of BB - end call with no doubt.

[keyboardweeb]

I must admit, my usage is pretty light. I'm rather asocial in life, and don't have a lot of contacts and don't call people often. I do text and email quite a bit, but not as much as some. I've had my Classic for just over a year so maybe I haven't had time to build up a huge history of text messages.

Sadly with BB10 dead and various other issues, the Classic may end up being my shortest-lived phone despite everything else that I really do love about this phone. Though I like BB10 better than Android, if BlackBerry released a Classic with Android and LTE band 12, I'd buy it day one.

Posted on my Model M.

[co4nd]

The Brand you speak of is BBOS, not BB10. BB10 killed the brand more than anything. Most of the Blackberry user base jumped to other platforms instead of upgrading to BB10.

[anon(8063781)]

All change is progress? I would agree with the opposite, but a dumb change is not necessarily progress.

I knew I should have written that in sarcastica font. I was kidding. It was a good rant.

[to boldly go]

Sadly with BB10 dead and various other issues, the Classic may end up being my shortest-lived phone despite everything else that I really do love about this phone. Though I like BB10 better than Android, if BlackBerry released a Classic with Android and LTE band 12, I'd buy it day one.
Posted on my Model M.

BB10 is not dead! [growllll]
I dont understand why people want to leave BB10 I they like it better, unless there are things nonfunctional on BB10 that you want.

The Passport is amazing too and snappier than the Classic, but no toolbelt.