[Tim Heard]

The Classic isn't intended to be a "flagship" phone.
They *did* research what their remaining business customers were wanting, which led to the Classic. They have added back in the "tool belt." They have enlarged the touch screen, compared to the Q models.
It is NOT intended to be competing head to head with the Passport. It also clearly isn't a large slab phone.
It's not a flagship. It's a replacement phone for enterprise customers, who have been holding on to their legacy phones for years.

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...esigns-933040/

Well here you go again Blackberry. Evidently you have not done any MARKET RESEARCH for the newest Flagship "Classic". Do you really know what your customers want in this phone? IMO you have dropped the ball once again.

Why would you even consider a new "FLAGSHIP PHONE" to only have 2-gig RAM? Rediculas! Or any spec. lesser that any phone available--real head scratcher! One would think that AT LEAST the Classic should equal the Passport in specs.

Survey all current customers who have 9900's or earlier and ask them what they want or are afraid that you'll find you made another mistake. DO YOUR MARKET RESEARCH UP FRONT and stop guessing! Then you may hit that home run you've been waiting on.

[Mr4aces]

It's a step forward compared to what it's replacing (BBOS).

Posted via CB10

It's replacing the Q10. Why do you defending BlackBerry's poor decisions? Did you "also" help design it and never owned a 9900?

They said a Foxconn version was coming out why would the put such old specs on the Q20 (I quit calling it a Classic because it is a Q10 with a track belt). Why pay big bucks for the name and a stainless bezel if the Foxconn has the same specs?

[Mr4aces]

Oh that's highlarious! Do you do stand-up comedy in your spare time? BlackBerry 10 is a gesture based operating system optimized for devices like the Z10 and Z30. The Z10 was released first for a reason.

I think BlackBerry should scrap the BB10 Classic all together and continue to make BBOS 7 devices for people like yourself.

I would go for a updated Bold with quad core processor and 3g RAM and still have the OS7. Hey all you BB10 users have been telling how great the BB10 is, well I used my grandson's Z10 for 3 days to test it out it is better than my wife's Samsung but at least the BBM app on BB10 sucks. You can not do multiple sharing with BB10 like you can with OS7 because it does not have the same type of menu hub as the 9900. Don't know about all the apps but in most cases it is better to go directly to the website than use an app. I don't play games on my mobile device so I wouldn't know about that.

[slagman5]

The Classic isn't intended to be a "flagship" phone.
They *did* research what their remaining business customers were wanting, which led to the Classic. They have added back in the "tool belt." They have enlarged the touch screen, compared to the Q models.
It is NOT intended to be competing head to head with the Passport. It also clearly isn't a large slab phone.
It's not a flagship. It's a replacement phone for enterprise customers, who have been holding on to their legacy phones for years.

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...esigns-933040/

It's too bad John Chen did refer to it as a flagship phone. Oh well, they also said the playbook will get BB10 afterall...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Mr4aces]

Yes. If it's a $350 device, they will have a better chance of that. This could be their fleet device while the Passport is their consumer device for the spec chasers.

Posted via CB10

I paid $600 for the 9900, if the Q20 is $350 I can see why the specs are 2 years old. But why would the make a $350 Q20 when Foxconn is coming out with a cheaper version $200-250? The stainless bezel is not worth $100. BlackBerry "just don't get it", 9900 users want a 9900 with updated OS and good specs. Not some cheesy Q10 with a tool belt.

Up until I used my grandson's Z10 I was all ready to buy a Q20. I think I will wait for the Foxconn version and still use my 9900.

[irweezyy]

If this is priced at $349.99 - $399.99 I can see it doing well.

Posted via CB10

[Mr4aces]

I'm not saying to forget about people who want the physical keyboard. I'm laughing because Bishkin said The Classic is a step forward for BlackBerry? It's called The Classic for Pete's sake!

The fact is the gesture based BB10 was made for touch screens. The Classic is nothing more then an attempt by BlackBerry to get its die hard BBOS user base on board with BB10.

Posted with X10 via CB10

Did you own a 9900? Do you really know what the benefits of having a removable battery, contract charging points and quick disconnect? I also "thought" the BB10 was the way to go I no long think that after using a Z10

[Mr4aces]

It is weird to feel disappointed even though I know I shouldn't be. BlackBerry is still the same old BlackBerry. Release new device, give it hardly any new hardware and call it a day. All they need to do now is give the Classic a ridiculously expensive price and they can call it a day.

The upgrade from Q10 to Classic is even worse than the upgrade from Storm to Storm 2 or any of the Curves were. I'm sad that they are still trying to pull this crap, but I am very happy that consumers no longer allow them to get a way with it like they used to. The Classic will be a failure if they don't price it aggressively, which let's be honest, we all know that they won't.

Sad day, I was interested in picking one up until I heard that it was nothing more than a repackaged Q10 with a slightly bigger battery.

You and all Quary users feel the same way they package the Q20 as a Q10 with a tool belt and 2 year old specs. Since you didn't own a 9900 you wouldn't know what the advantages are. The BB10 is not all what it is made out to be.

[Mr4aces]

Yep, I paid $350 for a OnePlus One, a phone that is about as high-end as you can get at the moment. I was really interested in the Classic, but the specs along with BlackBerry's completely outlandish pricing practices has me almost entirely convinced that I won't be buying one.

If I do buy one, it will be used just to ensure BlackBerry doesn't get the money from me directly.

It isn't about the money, I can afford to pay the price they will ask for a Classic, it is just a matter of principal for me. I refuse to be one of those people who tell BlackBerry that their pricing is appropriate by rushing out and buying one of their overpriced and outdated devices. In the old days, I did just that because BlackBerry didn't have any worthy competition. But now all of that has changed, leaving only the BlackBerry Collectors to pay the BlackBerry tax.

Just wait for the Foxconn version to come out later next year should be about $200 like the Z3

[Mr4aces]

If this is priced at $349.99 - $399.99 I can see it doing well.

Posted via CB10

Why would Qwary users pay $150-$200 more for a stainless bezel? When the Foxconn version will have the same 2 year old specs? Unless BlackBerry made a 180 the Q20 will be another failure.

For all you OS7 users the BB10 is not what it cracks up to be. Borrow a Z10 or Z30 from someone for 2 or 3 days and you will see what I mean. The BBM app sucks on BB10 for one.

Like Steve said if they would have just upgraded the 9900 with better specs they would make money. He said do the upgrade in increments with better specs every 2 years. Someone in the "rendering department" and someone in the "R&D" had their head up their ....

Up until last week when I tried the Z10 I was going to buy a Q20. Now I will continue to pull my battery because I run out of RAM and start using my computer more. Maybe Apple or Samsung will make a replacement mother board for the 9900 and software developers do an update for OS7. Just kidding about Apple/Samsung. But I know 9900 user would buy the mother board and pay for OS7 updates.

If you are going to take shots at me, be sure you have owned a 9900 for at least 1 year, have at least 10 email, 5 Twitter, 5 BBM Channels and 2 Face Book accounts and spend at 3-6 hours/day on your mobile device so you know what I am talking about. Otherwise your shooting blanks.

[phuoc]

I just want the trackpad and function keys back together with the keyboard.

I don't care much about having the latest, cutting-edge specs. As long as it has the recent OS version and I can text, email, call, and browse with it, I'm good. I like my Q10, but I just want the toolbelt back really bad.

Posted via CB10

This^^^^^^^^absolutely!

[Mr4aces]

Why can't they just bag the Q20 before it comes out and make a new mother board and camera for the 9900 and call it the 9950 or something. You really don't need BB10 for a working phone. I know we are going backwards, but I bet it would sell if they supported OS7 or had a software programer sell updates.

I hope BlackBerry don't put all their eggs in the Q20 basket. Unless it is reasonable priced it won't sell.

[AthenaSmith]

Why can't they just bag the Q20 before it comes out and make a new mother board and camera for the 9900 and call it the 9950 or something. You really don't need BB10 for a working phone. I know we are going backwards, but I bet it would sell if they supported OS7 or had a software programer sell updates.

I hope BlackBerry don't put all their eggs in the Q20 basket. Unless it is reasonable priced it won't sell.

I'd buy that Bold 9950. Trackpad, toolbelt, silver-colored bezel, curved keyboard, but with a better camera... sounds great.

Posted via CB10

[Mr4aces]

I'd buy that Bold 9950. Trackpad, toolbelt, silver-colored bezel, curved keyboard, but with a better camera... sounds great.

Posted via CB10

Thank you, I think thousands would by this phone. Thank idssteve for the idea. The Q20 will fail because the 20 something kids that designed it did not even own a 9900.

[phuoc]

I think the Q20 will fail because the 20 something kids that designed it did not even own a 9900.

This is what scares me.

[UrbanGlowCam]

I paid $600 for the 9900, if the Q20 is $350 I can see why the specs are 2 years old. But why would the make a $350 Q20 when Foxconn is coming out with a cheaper version $200-250? The stainless bezel is not worth $100. BlackBerry "just don't get it", 9900 users want a 9900 with updated OS and good specs. Not some cheesy Q10 with a tool belt.

Up until I used my grandson's Z10 I was all ready to buy a Q20. I think I will wait for the Foxconn version and still use my 9900.

I see your point, but can't fully agree with you. I had several BBOS devices including the Storm 9930, Storm 9950, Bold 9650, and Bold 9930. Though it had some advantages with using BIS and in handling emails/contacts, everything else works better for me on BB10. I remember even my 9930 constantly black clocking to death when I was using BBM Groups and members would go in and out. My phone would literally be unusable for 10 minutes and my battery would be significantly hammered.

While BB10 is still missing a lot of features that legacy BlackBerry devices had, the performance kills BB7 and prior. The browser is better, app quality with Cascades is SIGNIFICANTLY better, more fluid UI, apps that crash don't distrupt the whole OS, and much more. The areas that my Q10 is lacking in are mostly software and UI improvements that can still come with 10.3 and feature iterations.

I think 10.3.1 is already focused on polishing these areas in BB10 and I heard the Contacts native app will be reworked. The Bold 99xx could have been updated further, but there are still too many areas where BBOS' old-school JAVA architecture can't make up for. BlackBerry 10 / QNX's potential is much much greater in my eyes. Though I still hope the Classic will have the Z30's internals, I think BB10 will utilize even the bare minimum very well.

[Mr4aces]

I see your point, but can't fully agree with you. I had several BBOS devices including the Storm 9930, Storm 9950, Bold 9650, and Bold 9930. Though it had some advantages with using BIS and in handling emails/contacts, everything else works better for me on BB10. I remember even my 9930 constantly black clocking to death when I was using BBM Groups and members would go in and out. My phone would literally be unusable for 10 minutes and my battery would be significantly hammered.

While BB10 is still missing a lot of features that legacy BlackBerry devices had, the performance kills BB7 and prior. The browser is better, app quality with Cascades is SIGNIFICANTLY better, more fluid UI, apps that crash don't distrupt the whole OS, and much more. The areas that my Q10 is lacking in are mostly software and UI improvements that can still come with 10.3 and feature iterations.

I think 10.3.1 is already focused on polishing these areas in BB10 and I heard the Contacts native app will be reworked. The Bold 99xx could have been updated further, but there are still too many areas where BBOS' old-school JAVA architecture can't make up for. BlackBerry 10 / QNX's potential is much much greater in my eyes. Though I still hope the Classic will have the Z30's internals, I think BB10 will utilize even the bare minimum very well.

It is too bad BlackBerry did not listen to the 9900 and OS7 users. When JC said they were going to remake the Bold we thought it would be with all the good thinings people like about the 9900 Bold. As far as specs go why put the minimum hardware to drive this device? If BB would have put the latest processor in the Bold my device would not have the problems with RAM issue. Are phone manufacturers doing this so it has to be replaced every 2 years?

[koebi90]

LCD or OLED screen?

Posted on CB 10 and typed on the best Keyboard ever

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

It is too bad BlackBerry did not listen to the 9900 and OS7 users. When JC said they were going to remake the Bold we thought it would be with all the good thinks people like about the 9900 Bold. As far as specs go why put the minimum hardware to drive this device? If BB would have put the latest processor in the Bold my device would not have the problems with RAM issue. Are phone manufacturers doing this so it has to be replaced every 2 years?

Classic is all that BlackBerry believes is needed for enterprise... so that's all they are building.

Would a device with specs the rival any other "real" flagship device on the market this Fall run better and be received by users better.... YES. Doesn't mean it would sell better or be in the right price range for enterprise. BlackBerry has to make money.... and with the cuts they have made to BES licenses, cuts to carrier collected fees.... devices have to stand on their own! So if enterprise says they want a device that is cheap or free.... then that is what BlackBerry is building.

I really don't think BlackBerry is going to have the devices or the platform that some of us "prosumers" are going to be interested in....

[UrbanGlowCam]

It is too bad BlackBerry did not listen to the 9900 and OS7 users. When JC said they were going to remake the Bold we thought it would be with all the good thinks people like about the 9900 Bold. As far as specs go why put the minimum hardware to drive this device? If BB would have put the latest processor in the Bold my device would not have the problems with RAM issue. Are phone manufacturers doing this so it has to be replaced every 2 years?

Which features are you missing from BBOS devices?

I think they are trying to incorporate features that legacy users have been complaining about with 10.3.1. We should see very shortly with the 10.3.1 Beta SDK to hit any day now.

[Dr_Evol500]

I was SO excited when they announced the Classic. It was everything I wanted from a modern BlackBerry. Needless to say, these specs are disappointing. The ONLY saving grace will be if they price it appropriately. The Google Nexus 5 brought flagship specs, at a discounted price. If they can do it with great specs, BlackBerry should be able to with out-dated specs. I might still get one, but it's just kind of disappointing that they didn't even TRY with this phone.

[Mr4aces]

Classic is all that BlackBerry believes is needed for enterprise... so that's all they are building.

Would a device with specs the rival any other "real" flagship device on the market this Fall run better and be received by users better.... YES. Doesn't mean it would sell better or be in the right price range for enterprise. BlackBerry has to make money.... and with the cuts they have made to BES licenses, cuts to carrier collected fees.... devices have to stand on their own! So if enterprise says they want a device that is cheap or free.... then that is what BlackBerry is building.

I really don't think BlackBerry is going to have the devices or the platform that some of us "prosumers" are going to be interested in....

So why buy Q20 when the Foxconn version will be cheaper next year?
I would be for the Q20 with the fancy bezel and good looks if it had 3g RAM.
I always run out of RAM.

[Mr4aces]

Which features are you missing from BBOS devices?

I think they are trying to incorporate features that legacy users have been complaining about with 10.3.1. We should see very shortly with the 10.3.1 Beta SDK to hit any day now.

Unless you have multiple social media accounts it would be hard for you to understand, but I will try to explain it to you.

I have 5 BBM Channels, 5 Twitter and 2 Face Book accounts.
One of the FB accounts is MrGorilla Race which car and race related. On my 9900 if i bring up the menu hub I can "share" to: PIN, BBM Chat, BBM Channel, Social Feeds, FaceBook or Twitter. In Social Feeds I can post to BBM, Face Book and up to 5 Twitter account at the same time. You can not do this with BB10 because it does not have the same type of hub.

Up until 2 weeks ago I did not have internet because we live in the country. So I used the 9900 as my internet computer and did all my social feeds through it. The PC will still not share the same way OS7 does because Window 8 uses a mobile app for BBM on BB10. So I still use the 9900 for sharing.

This is why I don't feel BB10 is so great. The hub menu on 9900 does so many things a touch phone can not. Maybe that will get fixed when the track belt is incorporated into BB10. BlackBerry is under the gun to get BB10 modified for the track belt so I don't think all the OS7 features will be there right away and there are going to be lots of bugs. If ML/RIM would have designed the track belt into the BB10 phone JC would not have this problem now. ML/RIM took the easiest path by writing the OS for a touch phone only. ML/RIM's arrogance though faithful BB users would follow them like sheep and ants. They under estimated the intelligence of their users.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

So why buy Q20 when the Foxconn version will be cheaper next year?
I would be for the Q20 with the fancy bezel and good looks if it had 3g RAM.
I always run out of RAM.

I've never had an issue with RAM.... and if Android can make Kit-Kat work fine on 512 MB, I would hope BlackBerry can do OK with 2 GB.

But I understand people use their devices differently and that there maybe an App or two out there that's needs more RAM. Or maybe you like having eight open frames/apps???

For me the issue is after two years I want a better device... this time around it needs to be quad core and 50% - 80% faster. The GPU needs to be a couple of generations along. Based on how fast I filled 16GB up... I'm thinking for the next two years I need to have 32 GB as I doubt installing Apps to the SD card is ever coming. Camera.... BlackBerry has to do better here!!!!!!! Battery.... with my Z10 experience, I don't plan to ever buy a device with that small of a batter again. Then there are all the newer upgrades... like AC Wi-Fi, USB 3.0, Mira-cast....

But just because I want these things, that doesn't mean I really expect BlackBerry to be the one providing them. Maybe one day they will take a second shot at the consumer market...

[Mr4aces]

I've never had an issue with RAM.... and if Android can make Kit-Kat work fine on 512 MB, I would hope BlackBerry can do OK with 2 GB.

But I understand people use their devices differently and that there maybe an App or two out there that's needs more RAM. Or maybe you like having eight open frames/apps???

For me the issue is after two years I want a better device... this time around it needs to be quad core and 50% - 80% faster. The GPU needs to be a couple of generations along. Based on how fast I filled 16GB up... I'm thinking for the next two years I need to have 32 GB as I doubt installing Apps to the SD card is ever coming. Camera.... BlackBerry has to do better here!!!!!!! Battery.... with my Z10 experience, I don't plan to ever buy a device with that small of a batter again. Then there are all the newer upgrades... like AC Wi-Fi, USB 3.0, Mira-cast....

But just because I want these things, that doesn't mean I really expect BlackBerry to be the one providing them. Maybe one day they will take a second shot at the consumer market...

Thanks for you insight. I use up the RAM on Twitter and Face Book down loading and going though news feeds. When you scroll down the feeds it has to load the pictures on you phone for you to see them, so it doesn't take long to use up 280kb of starting RAM.