12-19-14 10:27 PM
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  1. tw1g_007's Avatar
    Yes you are correct OP.
    The Classic is indeed overpriced.
    It's massively underspecced.
    Every similarly specced phone retails for 200-300$ less.
    The market for such a device isn't big.

    Now we add the legendary and inexistant BlackBerry after sale support, the inexistant ecosystem, the inexistant native apps, the inexistant business apps (custom or in BBW/Amazon) and the relative value of the Classic gets even further diminished.

    The Classic is a 150-200$ phone, going by the current market realities. So, simply said, BlackBerry asks 100% more than anyone else, without any good reason.

    But I think that you are forgetting an important point, dear OP.
    You are on a BlackBerry fansite. By definition, most fans are biased.
    So you could try to explain it in a hundred different ways that the Classic is overpriced, and they still wouldn't accept it.

    You could point out, that enterprise customers are price sensitive because those companies don't have money to waste.
    And that those guys could just buy 200$ Android phones for their employees as fleet phones. Said Android phones would also have access an actual ecosystem and apps.

    You could also point out that the market for keyboard phones will be smaller than 0.5% this year, so everyone who expects the Classic to sell well, doesn't understand the market at all.

    You could then try to explain them, that BlackBerry has lost their dominant position in the enterprise sector (as a smartphone vendor) years ago already and that Android and iOS dominate that space now (with Apple having the most dominant position nowadays).

    You could also talk about BlackBerry's enterprise history and that their "mainstream" success (back in the day where selling 10 million smartphones a year actually was a lot) only happened because of their cheaper 250$ Curve line, but definitely not thanks to their 700$ Bolds.

    But as I said in the beginning already, none of those things mean anything, to the fanboys.
    They see the word BlackBerry on a phone, and their mind seems to go crazy and to completely ignore market realities and facts (which is not better than the often mentioned iSheep in these forums).

    Also.... Let's be honest here: BlackBerry needs those guys. BlackBerry needs mindless fanboys who actively want to pay 450$ for a phone, that wouldn't even have been worth that, 2 years ago.
    So, let's just enjoy the show. Let's just laugh when the next quarterly report comes out, because we knew it all along.
    Let's just laugh at all those silly arguments (or lack thereof), the fanboys will try to use, to explain why the Classic is worth that amount of money.
    And then let's just laugh again, because we know that the Playbook, the Z10, the Q10, the Q5 and the Z30 were already overpriced and didn't sell well, even though the fanboys declared them as rightly priced for their specs and capabilites.

    In the end, ignorance is still bliss for fanboys.
    Your post is pretty on point friend. At first I felt that you were a little too hard on the fanboys but judging by the responses I've read so far (even personal attacks towards me), I'm really starting to believe every word you typed out.

    Cheers.

    via CB10 - CH(s): (C0012477B , C003B32E9) - OS 10.2 Rogers
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    12-19-14 12:27 AM
  2. OzBogan's Avatar
    Guys, can't you keep this going. I love watching a group of mature (and I use the term loosely) adults getting their knickers in a knot over a phone. And at the end of the day it is a phone and nothing but a phone.

    The end of the world is nigh!
    mkelley65 likes this.
    12-19-14 12:27 AM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The only thing that should happen here is simple:

    Both you guys (vdbwork and Masupilami) should find another spamthread. 450 is too much for you ? Don't buy it then

    Yeah the passport is slightly more expensive bit lacks the toolbelt, programmable shortcuts and simply is too wide for a lot of people

    Yeah the specs - especially display - isn't top notch BUT the the target audience of this phone needs to get work done simple.
    I could order quite a few Classics right now, and it wouldn't be a problem for me in terms of money.
    My personal wealth isn't holding me back, when it comes down to the decision of not buying the Classic. It's a matter of not wanting to get ripped-off.
    (thanks for worrying though )

    Now I'll worry for you:
    Backseat modding isn't appreciated on here.
    And as long as I am not breaking any rules, I'll haunt the Classic pricing threads to my heart's content.

    One thing is correct though and has been said by Vbdwork already:
    Time will tell anyhow. But especially with BlackBerry we know one thing:
    They have a history of overpricing their devices and therefore losing potential customers which then leads to firesales.
    12-19-14 12:40 AM
  4. tw1g_007's Avatar
    You probably fail to realize an integral part of this discussion:
    The price/performance ratio.

    Bad specs are fine. Every low-end phone has them, and there is no reason to complain, because you pay 120$ for such a phone.

    Bad specs on a 450$ phone are another thing all together. It's unacceptable at that price to not have a certain level of specs in such a device.
    The way the market is segmented, makes a phone costing 450$ a part of the highest tier in the mid range (ignoring local Android manufacturers). Such a phone has to be slightly worse than the current flagship, but has to be significantly better than a low range device.

    And the Classic clearly ignores that market convention completely (while gaining an obscene margin for BlackBerry).

    Another thing that had been said quite some time now:
    BlackBerries need an Android runtime to deliver an acceptable app experience.
    That Android runtime needs ressources.
    Using outdated hardware won't exactly help that cause.
    This is basically feelings I was trying to echo to a tee. I apologize if I didn't do that good of a job to everyone who read and participated in this topic. I just get that vibe of being ripped off again when I purchase at $450.

    Keep in mind that I am pretty much a die hard BlackBerry consumer (not just your typical fanboy). I supported them with the severely overpriced Z10 (unlocked). I've taken one for the team already so I won't be making the same mistake a second time.

    via CB10 - CH(s): (C0012477B , C003B32E9) - OS 10.2 Rogers
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    12-19-14 12:44 AM
  5. slagman5's Avatar
    Really? Samsung TouchWiz, HTC Sense, Sony Xperia UI, Motorola MotoBlur, etc. come for free? Didn't know that... I love the new Sense on HTC One, nothing even close to stock Android look and feel. And I can change global system fonts size! Imagine that! This new and exciting feature is coming to BlackBerry 10 when... around 2020?



    I see no strategy. They are trying to survive with that they have left. In few years John Chen himself will be drawing hardware boards in the morning, typing software on his laptop in the afternoon, and browsing job search sites evening time.
    Yes, because building a UI is the same as building an OS from the ground up. Thanks for clearing that up for me. :-)
    12-19-14 12:59 AM
  6. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Your post is pretty on point friend. At first I felt that you were a little too hard on the fanboys but judging by the responses I've read so far (even personal attacks towards me), I'm really starting to believe every word you typed out.

    Cheers.

    via CB10 - CH(s): (C0012477B , C003B32E9) - OS 10.2 Rogers
    I know my crowd
    I lurk these forums since I have had my first BlackBerry, the Torch 9810. As a fan of sliders and nobody making any apart from BlackBerry, I came to this vendor.

    It wasn't the experience I looked for, so I then bought a Z10.
    As an early adopter, I didn't even thought of having an excellent experience, but I was satisfied more or less and wanted to stay with BB10.
    Time passed and I became annoyed. The Z30 annoyed me even more, because of those subpar specs. Paying 600$ for a phone in 2013/14 without a quad core (or 64 bit CPU) and without a 1080p, display was unacceptable.

    Therefore, I witnessed a lot of circular arguments, reoccurring themes, and the unwillingness of accepting certain criticism (I mean, I can understand why hearing for 2 years straight24/7, that BB10 lacks apps, is annoying, but the issue is real nonetheless).
    Anyhow, I am a fan of BB10 and certain BlackBerry hardware myself.
    I would love to buy a Z50 or a slider with adequate specs.
    But there's one thing I am totally over: fanboys not understanding the most simple market realities.

    As a fan and BB10 owner (even though my daily driver has become an HTC One M8 ), I feel entitled enough to openly talk about thinks that are (will become) most likely an issue.

    I hope that you can enjoy your topic nonetheless, as the debate itself is actually pretty interesting.

    This is basically feelings I was trying to echo to a tee. I apologize if I didn't do that good of a job to everyone who read and participated in this topic. I just get that vibe of being ripped off again when I purchase at $450.

    Keep in mind that I am pretty much a die hard BlackBerry consumer (not just your typical fanboy). I supported them with the severely overpriced Z10 (unlocked). I've taken one for the team already so I won't be making the same mistake a second time.

    via CB10 - CH(s): (C0012477B , C003B32E9) - OS 10.2 Rogers
    Haha, I bought the Z10 at launch, from Amazon.
    I was one of the first in my country to get that phone, for the full price.
    m1a1mg likes this.
    12-19-14 01:05 AM
  7. powereds's Avatar
    how is 950 dollars for an iPhone 6+ worth it.
    I agree!

    It's More Fun using Blackberry Q10 - 10.3.1.1154
    12-19-14 01:11 AM
  8. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    So don't buy it then. Simple.
    That's what lots of regular customers, even current-blackberry-customers (business and non-business) are going to do. You get, that this is not the best thing that could happen to blackberry? Keep in mind, even the ones who criticise the pricing would like to keep them producing smartphones...
    12-19-14 01:28 AM
  9. cleonwayne's Avatar
    Man I just want an official 10.3.1 for xmas

    Posted via CB10
    12-19-14 01:36 AM
  10. tanzarian's Avatar
    I don't think that a $400 price tag is crazy or extremely high.

    We have to see the device as a whole, that is: specs, software and build quality. I don't think BlackBerry puts hardware specs that are not enough to move the software fluently. In fact, the Qualcomm processor is almost the same as we have in the Z10, and the Z moves the latest 10.3.1 very smoothly.

    About BlackBerry 10. What is the cost of the OS? For me the whole OS is a killer feature on the phone, and I am happy to pay more for a device running this. If you want to pay less, you have the Q10 that is a very good device and similar in terms of performance.

    And last, removable battery. I don't want or need to remove batteries. This means opening and rebooting the phone, not very classy for me. I prefer to carry my always ready official charger bundle that charges the battery very fast.

    Just my opinion.
    12-19-14 01:48 AM
  11. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    I agree!

    It's More Fun using Blackberry Q10 - 10.3.1.1154
    As the proud owner of both the BlackBerry Z30 and, more recently, the iPhone 6+, I assure you that the iPhone 6+ is completely worth the money. 100% certainty there. I honestly didn't expect to be so impressed with the iPhone 6+, but it turns out that it is a very high performing smartphone with incredible support and capabilities.

    But here's the question for Chen: is the Classic going to be a killer device for its intended niche? For BlackBerry's sake of staying in phones, I hope so.


    iPhone 6+ / iOS 8.1.2 / T-Mobile USA
    MarsupilamiX and vbdwork like this.
    12-19-14 02:34 AM
  12. ponpiri's Avatar
    I don't get what you folks are saying. I believe it is a fair price. They have improved upon the 9900, and the Q10. Both phones started out higher and are slightly lower at this point. With a contract most places are offering it at $49. That is a very fair beginning price. I am not sure I get where you folks are coming from.
    They're cheap as hell and basically want to get the phone for free, practically. That's where they're coming from! It's silly to judge a phone by it's specs without considering how well it operates as a whole first. This is one thing that irritates me with marketing and buying new electronics. If I could figure out the brand managers who started this "spec war" trend, I'd throttle them a time or two for introducing something so stupid into the buying conscious.

    $450/$50 on contract is a steal. I don't know what these people expect from BlackBerry.

    The mods should REALLY think about merging this into a megathread where he folks who don't plan on buying the Classic can complain about the specs to their heart's content. It's ridiculous at this point.
    Last edited by ponpiri; 12-19-14 at 02:57 AM.
    mkelley65 likes this.
    12-19-14 02:47 AM
  13. Jaalouro's Avatar
    Really? Samsung TouchWiz, HTC Sense, Sony Xperia UI, Motorola MotoBlur, etc. come for free? Didn't know that... I love the new Sense on HTC One, nothing even close to stock Android look and feel. And I can change global system fonts size! Imagine that! This new and exciting feature is coming to BlackBerry 10 when... around 2020?



    I see no strategy. They are trying to survive with that they have left. In few years John Chen himself will be drawing hardware boards in the morning, typing software on his laptop in the afternoon, and browsing job search sites evening time.
    Chen has stated they already have there minium client base, government and such for its security software, blackberry doesn't only make phones and a operating system.

    How is blackberry trying to survive? So they messed up on z10 and went negative. Blackberry is fine.

    Passport/CB10 on WIND
    12-19-14 03:13 AM
  14. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    What a joke.

    Sure I'm not one of those people OVERLY obsessed with specs but when they are not priced appropriately, it becomes an issue. I really want to like this phone but it's just drawback after drawback preventing me from making a solid purchase.

    * No removable batteries was a huge let down.
    * The specs are a laughable.
    * Tool belt issues.

    Before BlackBerry gets my hard earned money on the Classic, I will need price reductions to roughly $250 minimum. Guess I will be sticking with the Z10 for a little longer.

    via CB10 - CH(s): (C0012477B , C003B32E9) - OS 10.2 Rogers
    Price will drop very soon, as soon as first production lots are gone I guess. $250 is undervalued, I'd bet more in the $350+ range. I've used it for a tiny hands-on (5 minutes) and by no means I found there was slowdowns or issues with the "specs". We can argue about the screen quality (esp. compared to Passport for instance) but remember this is a "Curve++" range device and accent has been made on productivity (i.e battery life, for instance). One of the most important aspect of so-called "specs" is durability and the day you'll have this device in hands, you'll understand it's meant to last under heavy usage, which is expected for most companies, maybe not for geeks or novelties addicts. You won't have that with a "Chinese" (sry for the shortcut) device.

    Also not sure what you describe as issue with the tool belt. This may be the only reason why I'd finally opt for this; ex: selecting text on my Q10 was *ahum* somehow difficult and I found the trackpad solved brilliantly this problem.

    Pass on Classic if you don't want it, you may want to wait for the next all touch "Manitoba" or whatever name.
    But if you're a KB lover, just don't start typing on it ... or you may experience instant 180 about your OP.


    Guys, remember this device has been created with BBOS users in mind. Millions of them.
    I for one own a Passport under 10.3.1 and this device has no function for me (I also have Z30, Z10s and Q10) and unless I can't resist the belt ...
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 12-19-14 at 03:35 AM.
    12-19-14 03:19 AM
  15. Jaalouro's Avatar
    $300? I just bought a 7950 with 3GB memory for $120 shipped... Now running crossfire, but stupid MSI (mobo company) put the sata ports right where the video card went, now I have to get a PCI-e to Sata card in order for me to use my optical drive...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    So basically u spent 240 running crossfire and how are these benchmarks? My card will still run faster then yours and my card is 3 years old.

    Msi makes one of the best boards. Build quality is fantastic.

    Passport/CB10 on WIND
    12-19-14 03:22 AM
  16. Jaalouro's Avatar
    You probably fail to realize an integral part of this discussion:
    The price/performance ratio.

    Bad specs are fine. Every low-end phone has them, and there is no reason to complain, because you pay 120$ for such a phone.

    Bad specs on a 450$ phone are another thing all together. It's unacceptable at that price to not have a certain level of specs in such a device.
    The way the market is segmented, makes a phone costing 450$ a part of the highest tier in the mid range (ignoring local Android manufacturers). Such a phone has to be slightly worse than the current flagship, but has to be significantly better than a low range device.

    And the Classic clearly ignores that market convention completely (while gaining an obscene margin for BlackBerry).

    Another thing that had been said quite some time now:
    BlackBerries need an Android runtime to deliver an acceptable app experience.
    That Android runtime needs ressources.
    Using outdated hardware won't exactly help that cause.
    Once again in simple terms people judging based on specs yet overlooking how classic performs. If you want a app experience get the iPhone or Android, blackberry doesn't "need" the experience of apps, they have there uses.

    All I did on my iphones was play games, same repeated games over and over.

    Let's admit that some people here just want a free phone, or try to justify the price based on sheet numbers. Get a job and buy the phone.

    I support blackberries products aswell, I love there phones and love bb10 and willing to spend the money again, it's that simple. If you don't like the price go elsewhere.

    Passport/CB10 on WIND
    Last edited by Jaalouro; 12-19-14 at 03:39 AM.
    Superfly_FR and BlackQtCoder like this.
    12-19-14 03:28 AM
  17. bakron1's Avatar
    It's a real simple solution folks, go look at the device and put it in your hand and try it out. If you like it and feel the price is right then buy it, if not, move on and buy something else. No one is twisting anyone's arm here, life is too short to argue about petty **** like this.

    Sent from my lovely z30 on T Mobile USA
    12-19-14 04:01 AM
  18. BlackQtCoder's Avatar
    Quality of OS + Quality of Device + Quality of Brand = cost $445 and more, guy !!
    12-19-14 05:12 AM
  19. Jaalouro's Avatar
    Quality of OS + Quality of Device + Quality of Brand = cost $445 and more, guy !!
    Don't forget blackberry increases status, like guys walking pocket dogs to increase status to pick up girls.

    Passport/CB10 on WIND
    12-19-14 05:58 AM
  20. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Don't forget blackberry increases status, like guys walking pocket dogs to increase status to pick up girls.

    Passport/CB10 on WIND
    I'm so glad I'm a grown up.

    Posted from my SEXY Q10 that I'd STILL be using IF I could find my FRACKING BANKING APP on BBW. And no I won't put Android apps here so don't EVEN go there!!!!
    m1a1mg likes this.
    12-19-14 06:00 AM
  21. Jaalouro's Avatar
    I'm so glad I'm a grown up.

    Posted from my SEXY Q10 that I'd STILL be using IF I could find my FRACKING BANKING APP on BBW. And no I won't put Android apps here so don't EVEN go there!!!!
    Even grown ups have a sense of humor. I suspect you been a victim with similar situation? It's ok.

    Passport/CB10 on WIND
    12-19-14 06:13 AM
  22. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Even grown ups have a sense of humor. I suspect you been a victim with similar situation? It's ok.

    Passport/CB10 on WIND
    I'm a fan of B I G doggies.
    A rat-on-a-rope won't work with me. A lab...a golden...an Irish Wolfhound...YEAH!!!!

    Posted from my SEXY Q10 that I'd STILL be using IF I could find my FRACKING BANKING APP on BBW. And no I won't put Android apps here so don't EVEN go there!!!!
    Jaalouro and m1a1mg like this.
    12-19-14 06:51 AM
  23. Jaalouro's Avatar
    I'm a fan of B I G doggies.
    A rat-on-a-rope won't work with me. A lab...a golden...an Irish Wolfhound...YEAH!!!!

    Posted from my SEXY Q10 that I'd STILL be using IF I could find my FRACKING BANKING APP on BBW. And no I won't put Android apps here so don't EVEN go there!!!!
    Lol yeah there like rodents, very annoying. The Irish wolfhound is a impressive dog!

    Passport/CB10 on WIND
    12-19-14 07:12 AM
  24. cobra16's Avatar
    Rogers is selling it for 49 dollars on a 2 year upgrade
    12-19-14 07:52 AM
  25. bombastic's Avatar
    Call me crazy
    OK, you're crazy

    All this discussion about the Classic.
    I saw the price, specs, eye candy, etc and concluded that although it looks good, it wasn't for me. But that's a choice, my choice, my decision.

    Others may be totally fine/happy with it.

    I'm saving up for a Passport Limited instead. Price even higher due to color combo, etc. But again it's a choice that might not make sense to some, but makes perfect sense to me.


    Now if only Lambourghini would make a cheaper model with two year old specs for $5000 dollars, I would be a very happy man.... (joke, obviously)


    Posted via CB10
    12-19-14 08:10 AM
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