10-16-14 07:44 AM
38 12
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  1. slagman5's Avatar
    looking at the side by side pictures of the 9900 and Classic/Q20? based on these
    i still prefer the 9900 in its size and looks, putting updated components and BB10 operating system in Bold 9900 casing and having the best keyboard of all would have pleased the 9900/30 holdouts,
    if the Classic is not suitable keep using 9900's if Blackberry can't produce a true replacement.
    Ok... First, I'll simply ignore the "looks" argument since that's subjective, and uh, I'm a dude so I don't care about my phone looking cute with the shoes I'm wearing... But in terms of the size, if the Classic was as small as the 9900, I definitely would not be buying it, and the same can be said for just about everyone except for the few people who seem to think a smaller screen is better simply because it'll make the overall device small enough to... I don't know, why is it you need it to be so small again?

    Anyway, and regarding the curved keyboard, you'll get used to the straight keyboard just fine. I came from a Bold 9000 and then a 9900 before I got the Q10. I don't even remember what the difference is anymore between the curved and straight keyboard...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    10-04-14 09:09 AM
  2. evodevo69's Avatar
    The rest if the market doesn't want a 2.6 inch screen. You can't sell devices to bbos users alone. You need to be able to sell a marketable device for a carrier to bother carrying it and people (aside from bbosers) buy it.

    Posted via CB10
    When former BlackBerry users were leaving in droves to competing companies in the years leading up to the launch of bb10, that was all the evidence they needed to tell them that whatever they were doing was NOT working - screen size included, OS7 included, etc



    #Q10 #Gold #LimitedEdition #CB10
    10-04-14 09:32 AM
  3. neoberry99's Avatar
    well it can't win on every single area can it....

    hehehe

    Seriously, I don't know if this phone should have been the 9900, as that would have been way ahead of its time and unlikely. But one this certain in my mind. The Q10 should NEVER have happened, and the Classic should have been the Q10 for sure.

    I'm retconning my q10 ownership from my personal phone owning history now I've finally flogged it off on ebay...
    Very true

    Not Fours Years But A Lifetime
    10-04-14 09:55 AM
  4. SK122387's Avatar
    I think the back should have been more like the 9900 and the Q10, because this does look just like a Q5 with a Z10 back. But aside from that, the specs are pretty good. I hope it has the same camera as my Passport, and while I wish it had the same internals and swipe gesture keyboard (which could be disabled) as the Passport, it seems to be a perfectly acceptable step up from both the Q10 and Bold 9900.

    Posted via CB10
    10-05-14 01:27 AM
  5. Nine54's Avatar
    When former BlackBerry users were leaving in droves to competing companies in the years leading up to the launch of bb10, that was all the evidence they needed to tell them that whatever they were doing was NOT working - screen size included, OS7 included, etc



    #Q10 #Gold #LimitedEdition #CB10
    And most of the former users who left in droves will not be returning regardless of how big the Classic is. They've moved on from physical keyboards. If anything, they would go for the Passport because of the screen size.

    BlackBerry needs to target the users who didn't leave in droves and, when the Q10 and Z10 came out, chose the Q10 or just stuck with their BBOS devices. I don't think anyone is saying that these users want an updated 9900 that's identical to the original: they just want a device that remains true to the original. Make the phone a little bigger, but preserve the width:length ratio of the original. Keep the curved keyboard. Bump up the specs, especially the camera.

    Part of the problem is that the BB10 gestures make it tough to increase screen real estate without exponentially increasing the device size. In this age of minimal bezels, "infinity edge" displays, and even wrap-around displays (e.g., Galaxy Edge), the reliance on edge gestures seems like a disadvantage on smaller form-factors, such as phones. I'm not saying I don't like the gestures, but it's tough to get past the bezel trade-off. Hopefully the Classic ushers in a new wave of alternative UX paradigms that are less reliant on bezels.
    10-05-14 07:37 AM
  6. matt4pack's Avatar
    Really so you want to keep the 2.7 inch screen? There was no way they could make it the same size with a bigger screen.

    The curved keyboard also looks a bit dated I think with no real benefit. You're typing with your thumbs not all 10 fingers.

    Posted via CB10
    10-05-14 11:12 AM
  7. idssteve's Avatar
    And most of the former users who left in droves will not be returning regardless of how big the Classic is. They've moved on from physical keyboards. If anything, they would go for the Passport because of the screen size.

    BlackBerry needs to target the users who didn't leave in droves and, when the Q10 and Z10 came out, chose the Q10 or just stuck with their BBOS devices. I don't think anyone is saying that these users want an updated 9900 that's identical to the original: they just want a device that remains true to the original. Make the phone a little bigger, but preserve the width:length ratio of the original. Keep the curved keyboard. Bump up the specs, especially the camera.

    Part of the problem is that the BB10 gestures make it tough to increase screen real estate without exponentially increasing the device size. In this age of minimal bezels, "infinity edge" displays, and even wrap-around displays (e.g., Galaxy Edge), the reliance on edge gestures seems like a disadvantage on smaller form-factors, such as phones. I'm not saying I don't like the gestures, but it's tough to get past the bezel trade-off. Hopefully the Classic ushers in a new wave of alternative UX paradigms that are less reliant on bezels.
    Some of us ARE saying we like the 9900's physical size. No one would be more surprised than myself if BB actually listened to that request but... I've used and mastered Z10 and Q10 and find the Q's overall size ok but the stretch between first finger and fourth finger, top & bottom, clasp gets painful for my old arthritic fingers by the end of the day with my Q. Not so with my 99. Several smaller handed folks in my office never fail to voice concern about the new Q's dimensions. I, personally, anticipate it will be fine but certainly appreciate the preference for compactness, in general. A possible niche market in itself.

    The 9900's implementation of trackpad relegates screen size as irrelevant to navigation. An alien concept to iGlassers but once the trackpad is given a true chance, over sized screens become more annoying than useful, IMO. Screen size will always be important for viewing but that's what PlayBooks, and/or, hdmi are for, IMO. In a pinch, "I" and "O" zoom shortcuts help to see details, if needed. 9900's tiny 2.7" screen works just fine because of the trackpad. Trackpad ported through the Playbook into a 100" flat screen works marvelously as well.

    I get asked about my 99 at least a couple times per week out in public. Almost inevitably, displeasure is voiced with the oversized dimensions of the newer iPhones and Samsungs. Compactness never goes out of style.
    1TIME likes this.
    10-05-14 11:20 AM
  8. Nine54's Avatar
    Some of us ARE saying we like the 9900's physical size. No one would be more surprised than myself if BB actually listened to that request but... I've used and mastered Z10 and Q10 and find the Q's overall size ok but the stretch between first finger and fourth finger, top & bottom, clasp gets painful for my old arthritic fingers by the end of the day with my Q. Not so with my 99. Several smaller handed folks in my office never fail to voice concern about the new Q's dimensions. I, personally, anticipate it will be fine but certainly appreciate the preference for compactness, in general. A possible niche market in itself.

    The 9900's implementation of trackpad relegates screen size as irrelevant to navigation. An alien concept to iGlassers but once the trackpad is given a true chance, over sized screens become more annoying than useful, IMO. Screen size will always be important for viewing but that's what PlayBooks, and/or, hdmi are for, IMO. In a pinch, "I" and "O" zoom shortcuts help to see details, if needed. 9900's tiny 2.7" screen works just fine because of the trackpad. Trackpad ported through the Playbook into a 100" flat screen works marvelously as well.

    I get asked about my 99 at least a couple times per week out in public. Almost inevitably, displeasure is voiced with the oversized dimensions of the newer iPhones and Samsungs. Compactness never goes out of style.
    100% agree. My point was less about the size and more about the implication that those calling for a 9900 update don't want any changes at all, i.e., same specs, etc. But I hear what you're saying. And agree. By separating the input mechanism from the output mechanism (the screen), the trackpad should allow for more efficient screen usage. And I think the zoom-in and zoom-out shortcuts should be OS-wide and fast. Can't see something? Press the shortcut and, boom, it zooms in. Then quickly back out when navigating. Why BBRY couldn't make a browser with this efficient experience is a mystery.

    And agree on the size trend of newer devices. One of the main reasons I got a Moto X was that Moto managed to fit a 4.7" screen in a compact, comfortable form-factor. But of course, they went with a 5+" screen on the 2014 Moto X "because people said they'd buy a phone with a larger screen." With modern manufacturing capabilities, BBRY could fit a screen larger than 2.7" in the same overal dimensions of the 9900. But, it will take rethinking the BB10 bezel gestures by--like you said--giving the trackpad a true chance. Compactness doesn't go out of style, and neither does doing more with less
    idssteve likes this.
    10-05-14 03:17 PM
  9. Frehley's Avatar
    Well said by Matty:

    The Classic is the new and improved Bold 9900.....

    It's what should have come out instead of the q 10... and now it's here!!! bigger and better than ever!!! And os 10 3 with BlackBerry Balance is exciting.

    Former Bold 9900 die hard user.....

    Posted via CB10
    I would agree with you that "The Classic is the new and improved Bold 9900" if it only had the ergonomic keyboard...IMHO. I have read many posts that say "grow up and get over it", but I have never been able to get used to the straight keyboard of the Q10. I PERSONALLY type faster, and more accurate, on the 9900 keyboard.

    It all comes down to personal preference, but to me...to be called the Classic, it should emulate the 99xx series...after all, JC is going after "Business Users" first. I wonder how many have used a Q10...just saying...
    Last edited by Frehley; 10-13-14 at 06:14 PM. Reason: spelling
    jegs2 and 1TIME like this.
    10-13-14 06:09 PM
  10. KR2013's Avatar
    ...... I don't think anyone is saying that these users want an updated 9900 that's identical to the original: they just want a device that remains true to the original. Make the phone a little bigger, but preserve the width:length ratio of the original. Keep the curved keyboard. Bump up the specs, especially the camera.
    That's not the message I am getting from some of these posts. Look at Post #25 for example. I get a feeling some people keep insisting on getting EXACTLY a Bold body with BB10 inside and tons of other improvements. Interestingly, many Q10 owners (including myself) think one of the negatives of Q10 is the small screen size. I am not sure how many people (in the market for buying a new phone) will be happy these days going back to the size of the Bold, even amongst the BB diehards! Also, there are many advantages the gesture based UIs and the new designs/sizes offer that would make it hard to go back to an oudated design/system!
    10-15-14 04:23 AM
  11. 1TIME's Avatar
    I agree, as much as I want to like the classic I hate the following about it;

    1. Straight keyboard: The 9900 keyboard was more ergonomic and better looking, the straight keyboard is worse from a design and function stand point.

    2. No lit up track pad: This was a premium feeling feature on the 9900 but I don't see it on the classic also the 9900 had the whole shut down sequence which although not useful was pretty awesome and give it a more premium feel.

    3. Disproportionate sizing: The size between the keyboard and screen is too large, why the need to go bigger so that it boarders on Z10 sizing? The whole point of it is for 1 handed use and users buying a qwerty phone know they will never have an equal experience browsing of viewing things as an all touch LCD phone so making it the size of a Z10 kills the pocketability factory and puts it in a category of ize that's neither a sleek candy bar or a big touchscreen.
    Frehley likes this.
    10-15-14 04:56 AM
  12. Nine54's Avatar
    I would agree with you that "The Classic is the new and improved Bold 9900" if it only had the ergonomic keyboard...IMHO. I have read many posts that say "grow up and get over it", but I have never been able to get used to the straight keyboard of the Q10. I PERSONALLY type faster, and more accurate, on the 9900 keyboard.
    Many of those same people also said to get over the lack of the trackpad and call/end buttons, but now are probably all excited about the Classic.

    It all comes down to personal preference, but to me...to be called the Classic, it should emulate the 99xx series...after all, JC is going after "Business Users" first. I wonder how many have used a Q10...just saying...
    "Pre-Chen" BlackBerry started going down this path of thinking it knew better than its customers. It tried following general market trends instead of catering to the needs of its own, albeit much smaller, user base. "People want larger screens." Yes, and most of those that want larger screens won't ever buy a BlackBerry phone. And for the BlackBerry users, sure, they might like larger screens, but that doesn't mean they'd be willing to give up the trackpad and physical buttons for it. And for those that would, well, there's the all-touch BB devices.

    The problem with focus groups and other related types of customer research is that they're conducted in a bubble and the questions leave out context. Someone might say they want want a larger screen, but could be using the phone in a way that contradicts that, such as by predominately using it one-handed, putting it in their shirt-pocket or other small pockets, etc. Is the user a hypocrite? No, because the question didn't tell them the trade-offs with a larger screen. Had they been able to use such a device, they might have realized that larger screens are nice, but easy one-handed use was more important. That's why designers should see what people do and observe how they actually use your products.

    The Q10 is a perfect example. Sure, it has a larger screen, but users have to give up the trackpad to get it. For some, it might not be a big deal, but for others, it's a show-stopper. With the Passport, BlackBerry started asking itself better questions like, "How can we maintain the trackpad functionality without sacrificing screen size? Maybe we can implement the trackpad into the keyboard..." That's innovation.
    idssteve likes this.
    10-16-14 07:18 AM
  13. Nine54's Avatar
    That's not the message I am getting from some of these posts. Look at Post #25 for example. I get a feeling some people keep insisting on getting EXACTLY a Bold body with BB10 inside and tons of other improvements. Interestingly, many Q10 owners (including myself) think one of the negatives of Q10 is the small screen size. I am not sure how many people (in the market for buying a new phone) will be happy these days going back to the size of the Bold, even amongst the BB diehards! Also, there are many advantages the gesture based UIs and the new designs/sizes offer that would make it hard to go back to an oudated design/system!
    Sure, you probably are right: some people might want the exact same size. Though, I would think that new manufacturing capabilities might allow BlackBerry to fit a larger screen within the same overall size, give or a take a millimeter. And this is where the gesture-based OS becomes problematic on smaller form-factors. First, the gestures require bezel space. This might not be a big deal on larger all-touch devices, but on phones that already are trading off screen size for a physical keyboard, users don't want to give up even more screen size for functions that could be replicated by the physical buttons already on the phone. Second, while I agree it would be hard to go back to a 9900-sized screen, a big part of the reason is because BB 10 was obviously designed with larger, all-touch devices in mind. Like Android and iOS, it assumes people will be navigating using their finger, which is a relatively large, inaccurate pointing device. So, to minimize errors, icons are large and broad swiping gestures are needed. BBOS was built around much more precise and efficient trackpad, which allowed for smaller UI elements and overall more efficient screen space usage.

    When you design for the desired user experience, you can overcome or at least mitigate the constraints. The 9900 screen was small, but with BBOS, it worked. Sure, it might not be as good as larger screen phones for some tasks, but OS and hardware felt seamlessly integrated, resulting in a device that felt purpose built. With the Q10, I think a lot of hardcore BB users felt like BlackBerry just slapped a keyboard on a phone with an OS obviously designed for touch and that's why they balked. BlackBerry mistakenly thought its users mostly just cared about typing on physical keys vs. glass, but it really was about more than that: users cared about the whole integrated experience of the software+trackpad+keyboard.
    idssteve likes this.
    10-16-14 07:44 AM
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