11-14-14 07:44 PM
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  1. Mr4aces's Avatar
    I don't think I could have said this better--and the 30-year-old horse analogy was perfect! How many companies have to attempt and arguably botch a massive platform migration before others learn from it? It's almost mind-boggling to me how corporate leaders simply ignore history and the mistakes of their competitors. Microsoft with Windows Mobile to Windows Phone, Nokia with Symbian to Windows Phone, and BlackBerry with BBOS to BB10: all of these suffered from similar strategic and tactical errors that have cost the companies millions (if not billions) of dollars, cost employees their jobs, and cost shareholders significant earnings. All of them must have thought, "Oh no, our situation is different from so-and-so's. That will never happen to us." Let's look at the top 3 critical errors made during each of these transitions:
    1. Announcing to the world that your existing platform is dead before your new platform is anywhere near ready. This is like sending an SOS to your customers telling them to stop buying your existing products. This is probably the most egregious error, especially since history has shown that the likelihood of obstacles and delays with developing a new platform is very high.
    2. Offering no backwards-compatibility or seamless migration plan between your existing and new platform. Microsoft--almost to a fault--usually ensures backwards-compatibility on the PC side. But, on the mobile side, in addition to offering zero compatibility between Windows Mobile and Windows Phone, Windows Phone 7 was so immature that hardware supporting it wouldn't even be able to support future versions of the OS. With BlackBerry, why couldn't they include a JRE with BB10 and run BBOS as a JVM? Or, just completely virtualize a BBOS device? The entire BBOS operating system + apps was loaded into less than 1GB of RAM/cache on BBOS devices! Throw a little more memory into a BB10 phone and have it run both BB10 and BBOS and just allow for seamless application windows.
    3. Overestimating your brand equity. BlackBerry had a high loyalty factor, but expecting your customers to just wait around while you get your act together shows incredible hubris. In this highly competitive market, you have to keep your customers engaged with your brand and, more importantly, give them something to buy.

    The last point, I believe, is what the OP was driving at: while BB10 was being developed and then delayed and then delayed again, the company could have continued refreshing its existing product lines. He's not saying they needed to throw an army behind it; rather, just continue to iterate on the products just like Apple does with devices like the iPhone 5 and iPhone 5s. BlackBerry could have had the 9900 and 9900+, which would have been largely the same phone but with bumped-up specs, a better camera, and whatever other new features could have been incorporated into a form-factor that wouldn't have required extensive machine retooling. And it could have run an updated version of BBOS...BBOS 7.2 or 7.5 let's say.


    Thank you.
    10-07-14 11:25 AM
  2. tufcustomer's Avatar
    The 9900 is not a classic either though. That would be the 6230.

    Posted via CB10
    10-07-14 11:36 AM
  3. thurask's Avatar
    No the other way around, people that were on BBOS and went to BB10 when it first came out. Have that feeling of being rip off because BB10 was not ready and the BB10 phones were over prices. Then to top things off RIM came out the the Playbook and abandon the BBOS platform. How many people over paid for that product?
    Ask the average person on the street to describe a BlackBerry and what they think of it. Most of the time you'll get "old", "slow", "hourglass", "battery pull" and "outdated", not "panacea" as you seem to think.

    Posted via CB10
    ThunderShock2005 likes this.
    10-07-14 11:38 AM
  4. Mr4aces's Avatar
    This was on the PassPort Forum:

    Whilst I love the look and feel of the phone, it is let down dreadfully by the Hub.
    Whilst I appreciate a lot of you will love the Hub, for me it is THE reason why I will probably have to return the phone & get a bb with os7 on instead.Why? - I have 10 different e-mail accounts which I need to see on 10 different icons - and know that I am responding from that account & not risk responding off the default account). I dont mind BBM's / texts in one place.but I dont want to see every e-mail I receive in the one place.
    This is the key reason I stuck with a blackberry when all around me were getting androids / iphones - and now the only way I can get what I need is to either get an old BB or a new windows phone.
    To solve this, Hub should be optional - with the option to show e-mails in different tabs as you used to be able to. If this can be done - great, I have 6 days left to decide on whether to keep the phone or not.
    Also, a word of warning to anyone who gets a BB p/port - DO NOT upgrade the amazon marketplace - if you hit agree you are giving Amazon the right to look at any of your files / images stored basically anywhere - and know where you are in the world at any time. If you hit decline, you cant access the marketplace until you agree to their ability to intrude in your life! So dont upgrade !
    People have different priorities. For most BB10 users it is hard to understand why I keep saying BB10 is not what the BBOS is. It is "almost" there maybe by next year it will come to fold.
    10-07-14 11:50 AM
  5. Mr4aces's Avatar
    Ask the average person on the street to describe a BlackBerry and what they think of it. Most of the time you'll get "old", "slow", "hourglass", "battery pull" and "outdated", not "panacea" as you seem to think.

    Posted via CB10
    The "average person" don't know what a BlackBerry is.
    10-07-14 11:55 AM
  6. Tyler Nellissen's Avatar
    This thread is about reality vs fantasy. op seems to be clinging to and demanding that his specific fantasy become reality. Which it will not. Making more threads like this is a pointless endeavor.

    Posted via CB10
    rthonpm and ponpiri like this.
    10-07-14 01:56 PM
  7. AthenaSmith's Avatar
    I'm inclined to agree with the OP with regard to the look of the phone.

    My ideal Classic is basically a bigger Bold 9900 with a better camera and running on the BB10 OS.

    Posted via CB10
    jegs2, Mr4aces and Frehley like this.
    10-07-14 09:25 PM
  8. matt4pack's Avatar
    All this debate has me wondering, has anyone ever done an interview with BB on why so many great BBOS features are missing from BB10?
    Maybe the same reason so many macos features were left out of os x.

    Because those legacy systems had years and years of feature bloat in them that couldn't just be replicated in an instant.
    10-07-14 10:05 PM
  9. idssteve's Avatar
    Maybe the same reason so many macos features were left out of os x.

    Because those legacy systems had years and years of feature bloat in them that couldn't just be replicated in an instant.
    Last i heard, OS x was still single digit global market share. ?? Of course that was before MS tried adopting Apple's "less is more, we know better" arrogance with their later OS's so maybe MS's slip has helped OSx position. ??

    Like most, I have no inside view into BBRY's motives. Only conjecture. What else do we have to go on?? To my limited knowledge, no one at QNX had ever developed a complete phone?? If so, and considering the project's belated start, it's perfectly understandable that stripping any and all "features" would fall under "Aggressive Schedule 101". BB certainly had experience with toolbelts. Both hardware and software. Possibly NO living person had ANY experience with coding QNX for toolbelts. Given their late start, attempting to code toolbelt before the Q10 release would have been an intimidating challenge for ANYone, IMO. The Z/Q10 HAD to be rock solid reliable or BB would have been toast. Given the pressure of those constraints, it's perfectly understandable, to me, that they chose to jettison ANY and ALL features they could possibly be rid of. Starting with the tool belt. The rest is history. Here we are.

    One user's "years and years of feature bloat" is another's "years and years of usability experience". Experience that was abandoned. When you abandon features, don't be surprised if the existing customers that liked those features complain, refuse to migrate, or move to other platforms. Nothing new or extraordinary about that. If your "less is more, we know better" approach appeals to a greater number of NEW consumers then who cares? Send the old ones packing and enjoy the prosperity of the fickle consumer market. BUT, if your NEW consumers fail to materialize, you'll have little choice but to re-visit the features your legacy customers are still clinging to. Here we are.
    wilber1, gabbleratchet and Mr4aces like this.
    10-08-14 05:28 AM
  10. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    BUT, if your NEW consumers fail to materialize, you'll have little choice but to re-visit the features your legacy customers are still clinging to. Here we are.
    So it would seem. They are finally adding some missing feature but they better darn well hurry up with the rest of the missing features too or my phone after the Classic will not be a BB.
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-08-14 09:27 AM
  11. rthonpm's Avatar
    A big for instance, it's ticked off so many of us faithful since the launch of OS10 that it still does not sync completely with MS Outlook as it did with Legacy devices!! I and I'm sure hundreds of thousands of other business people, rely on MS Outlook for business on our laptops as our daily driver!!!
    Most businesses I deal with are using Exchange as their mail backend so there's no need to sync a mobile device with a local install of Outlook to begin with. BlackBerry 10's support of Exchange Active Sync does all of it for them, and the majority of my BlackBerry using customers aren't even using BES, so you can't make that argument either. If anything, it's the outdated nature of BBOS that forced you to use desktop syncing to begin with.
    ThunderShock2005 likes this.
    10-08-14 09:43 AM
  12. Dsrtwlf's Avatar
    I am waiting on the Classic to come out, look at the reviews on it. Still use my old 9650, was going to 9930, but I read where they only update and all through Dec 2015. Do not know if this is true. But I for one, like the track pad.
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-09-14 05:18 PM
  13. idssteve's Avatar
    I am waiting on the Classic to come out, look at the reviews on it. Still use my old 9650, was going to 9930, but I read where they only update and all through Dec 2015. Do not know if this is true. But I for one, like the track pad.
    +1000 for the Trackpad! It truly is a modern marvel of efficient precision! After trying the iOriginal in 2007 and the Storm in 2008, i JUMPED on the Trackpad when intro'd in 2009 as the modern solution. Gave the Z my best for nine months and my Q for 3 months but just had to honestly admit to myself that i simply like TrackPad. Glass interfaces keep trying to catch up but nothing intro'd since has matched TP's efficient precision, IMO. It's why relatively tiny screens on 9650's are adequately useable. Nothing "high tech" about lugging around unnecessary hectare acres of screenestate, IMO.

    While I share OP's disappointment over much of BB's feature abandonment, the Q20 "Classic" will, after a 3 year wait, finally provide a NEW device with the efficient precision of TrackPad! A giant leap forward in itself! Combined with features getting restored in 10.3.1, I'm genuinely excited for it's arrival.
    Last edited by idssteve; 10-10-14 at 05:14 AM.
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-10-14 03:39 AM
  14. Mr4aces's Avatar
    I am just now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. With BlackBerry's new patent on the folding keyboard, there is no little hope for the ergonomic pkb in BB's future. I can now accept the straight pkb and move on.

    Looks like the future is going to be good for BB in the mobile devices.
    idssteve likes this.
    10-11-14 07:21 AM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    I am just now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. With BlackBerry's new patent on the folding keyboard, there is no little hope for the ergonomic pkb in BB's future. I can now accept the straight pkb and move on.

    Looks like the future is going to be good for BB in the mobile devices.
    Yeah, the straight kb will forever remind me of when software expedience (driven by Q10 belated development schedule, imo) took precedence over hardware ergonomics but... it is what it is.

    BB10 is a powerfully reliable OS and 10.3.1 does promise to finally restore at least some functionality lost in their belated rush to development. AND, three years since the last one, we FINALLY get a new tool belt equipped device!!
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-11-14 09:01 AM
  16. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    Did they ever bring back group contacts?

    This was so vital for me back in the day when I would have to send text messages to a bunch of people and it was so easy to just select the teams (group contacts) that I had setup and just blast them out to everyone. Did they bring that back?
    10-11-14 12:53 PM
  17. Mr4aces's Avatar
    Did they ever bring back group contacts?

    This was so vital for me back in the day when I would have to send text messages to a bunch of people and it was so easy to just select the teams (group contacts) that I had setup and just blast them out to everyone. Did they bring that back?
    yes, I used it also. Don't think "Blend" or BB10 has it yet.
    10-11-14 02:25 PM
  18. elgolfman's Avatar
    I think the faith of the "Classic" was predetermined by a staff that never used the 9900 during the first 2 months if JC tenure. Then to make matters worst they had another bozo to do a rendering that also never used a 9900. JC most likely took the word of these people by the time JC announced the "Classic" the proto types were already setup as a straight keyboard. Mean while the cash went out for a new Q10 with a track belt. Just think if JC would have asked a BBOS employee instead of a BB10 bozo, we would have had the retro 9900 out in 3 months running on BBOS8.

    Look at all the 9900 parts on Ebay and Amazon. Just think same frame, same keyboard, same glass. Make the back a little thicker to accommodate a bigger battery, updated mother board with 2-3g RAM and a better camera.

    If I was running the R & D and my staff could not come up a design in 7 days they would be all fired.

    BBOS8? Just some updates from 7.1 or modify the hybrid. The retro 9900 does not need the BB10 the screen is to small to play games anyway. Sell this for under $200-300 and you have a winner. Dedicate one (1) person to update and develop the BBOS8. And if BIS is going away modify the OS.

    Continue to keep making this retro 9900 til hell freezes over. Drop the price 10-15% each year for 3-4 years.

    While this retro phone is making money and increasing the user base. Start working on a 3.5 screen for the next update 6-10 months later under a new series using BB10.

    I wonder how many man hours went into the BB10 OS to add the track belt with the BBOS hub? I would bet money it is not up to par with BBOS7. I took them 2-3 years to add about half the features that was dropped from OS7.

    Yeah, I'm the guy that was ******** 1-2 mos ago about BB10 not being as good as OS7. I don't think Blend will do everything OS7 does. So if Blend is suppose to incorporate the features of OS7 what happened when BB10 came out?

    OP think I'm beating a dead horse. Open your eyes.

    BB "just don't get it"
    Exactly... good post. Why did we lose all the good apps and features we had in 7?

    Posted via CB10
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-11-14 03:02 PM
  19. KR2013's Avatar
    This was on the PassPort Forum:

    People have different priorities. For most BB10 users it is hard to understand why I keep saying BB10 is not what the BBOS is. It is "almost" there maybe by next year it will come to fold.
    I am actually glad that BB10 is not what BBOS was! Regardless of what's missing in BB10, overall I find it superior to BBOS in many ways. BB10 is why I am back with BlackBerry and keep buying their phones again!

    Posted via CB10
    ThunderShock2005 likes this.
    10-12-14 01:51 AM
  20. Dat Gui's Avatar
    the passport is a q10 with a square design and a touch keyboard, the z10 is a q10 without the keyboard. The iPhone is a z10 with iOS. See how stupid you sound?
    ThunderShock2005 likes this.
    10-12-14 02:24 AM
  21. Alec Senior's Avatar
    Because, internet...
    ThunderShock2005 likes this.
    10-12-14 02:58 AM
  22. ThunderShock2005's Avatar
    I think the faith of the "Classic" was predetermined by a staff that never used the 9900 during the first 2 months if JC tenure. Then to make matters worst they had another bozo to do a rendering that also never used a 9900. JC most likely took the word of these people by the time JC announced the "Classic" the proto types were already setup as a straight keyboard. Mean while the cash went out for a new Q10 with a track belt. Just think if JC would have asked a BBOS employee instead of a BB10 bozo, we would have had the retro 9900 out in 3 months running on BBOS8.

    Look at all the 9900 parts on Ebay and Amazon. Just think same frame, same keyboard, same glass. Make the back a little thicker to accommodate a bigger battery, updated mother board with 2-3g RAM and a better camera.

    If I was running the R & D and my staff could not come up a design in 7 days they would be all fired.

    BBOS8? Just some updates from 7.1 or modify the hybrid. The retro 9900 does not need the BB10 the screen is to small to play games anyway. Sell this for under $200-300 and you have a winner. Dedicate one (1) person to update and develop the BBOS8. And if BIS is going away modify the OS.

    Continue to keep making this retro 9900 til hell freezes over. Drop the price 10-15% each year for 3-4 years.

    While this retro phone is making money and increasing the user base. Start working on a 3.5 screen for the next update 6-10 months later under a new series using BB10.

    I wonder how many man hours went into the BB10 OS to add the track belt with the BBOS hub? I would bet money it is not up to par with BBOS7. I took them 2-3 years to add about half the features that was dropped from OS7.

    Yeah, I'm the guy that was ******** 1-2 mos ago about BB10 not being as good as OS7. I don't think Blend will do everything OS7 does. So if Blend is suppose to incorporate the features of OS7 what happened when BB10 came out?

    OP think I'm beating a dead horse. Open your eyes.

    BB "just don't get it"
    Lmao are you for real?! You can't be for real!

    I owned a Bold 9900. It was an amazing and beautiful phone. But it is nowhere as powerful as my Q10.

    What is wrong with expanding the phone's height (or length, whatever) and just putting a track belt under the Q10's screen? The Q10 is already a powerful phone as it is, with a well optimised and resource-friendly OS.

    You remember BBOS and the memory leaks? How about the JVM Error? How about needing to go to the Host Routing Table and "registering"? (BB10 depends less on the NOC) How about requiring service books just to use the BlackBerry Browser, or instant messaging other than BBM, or even just SENDING MMS?! How about forgetting your carrier.blackberry.net login and losing your device, deeming you unable to regain your settings including your @carrier.blackberry.net email setup? How about being required to carry a different device other than your personal phone because one is on BES?

    Ugh. I can't.

    Posted via BlackBerry Q10 on AT&T
    10-12-14 03:22 AM
  23. idssteve's Avatar
    Lmao are you for real?! You can't be for real!

    I owned a Bold 9900. It was an amazing and beautiful phone. But it is nowhere as powerful as my Q10.

    What is wrong with expanding the phone's height (or length, whatever) and just putting a track belt under the Q10's screen? The Q10 is already a powerful phone as it is, with a well optimised and resource-friendly OS.

    You remember BBOS and the memory leaks? How about the JVM Error? How about needing to go to the Host Routing Table and "registering"? (BB10 depends less on the NOC) How about requiring service books just to use the BlackBerry Browser, or instant messaging other than BBM, or even just SENDING MMS?! How about forgetting your carrier.blackberry.net login and losing your device, deeming you unable to regain your settings including your @carrier.blackberry.net email setup? How about being required to carry a different device other than your personal phone because one is on BES?

    Ugh. I can't.

    Posted via BlackBerry Q10 on AT&T
    Wow, if i'd experienced even 10% of those issues, i'd hate BBOS also. Thing is, after a year of trying to compensate for missing features on BB10, i jumped back to 9930 6+ months ago and have experienced ZERO of the problems you just listed. What is the difference?? IDK. Maybe we're on different carriers? Mine's Verizon, FWIW. Maybe OS7.1.0.1066 got things sorted out? Maybe different third party apps??? IDK. I DO know that my 9930 has been granite stone reliable over these last six months and after the first few months 3years ago. Early OS's were certainly a problem but i really think they have it sorted out by now. 3yrs too late, but...

    All that said, i don't think anyone believes java OS can hold a candle to QNX's reliability. The complaint by most of us "holdouts", and in my case "reverse migrator", is the loss of DOZENS of valued features!! Maybe users that never used, appreciated, or even knew they were there didn't miss them, but some of those features are absolutely essential for keeping SOME of us in BB at all. For us, those features are what differentiate BB from iOS and Droid. 10.3.1 is finally starting to restore some of those features. Q20 "Classic" is finally even restoring the tool belt feature!!
    10-12-14 04:07 AM
  24. ThunderShock2005's Avatar
    Wow, if i'd experienced even 10% of those issues, i'd hate BBOS also. Thing is, after a year of trying to compensate for missing features on BB10, i jumped back to 9930 6+ months ago and have experienced ZERO of the problems you just listed. What is the difference?? IDK. Maybe we're on different carriers? Mine's Verizon, FWIW. Maybe OS7.1.0.1066 got things sorted out? Maybe different third party apps??? IDK. I DO know that my 9930 has been granite stone reliable over these last six months and after the first few months 3years ago. Early OS's were certainly a problem but i really think they have it sorted out by now. 3yrs too late, but...

    All that said, i don't think anyone believes java OS can hold a candle to QNX's reliability. The complaint by most of us "holdouts", and in my case "reverse migrator", is the loss of DOZENS of valued features!! Maybe users that never used, appreciated, or even knew they were there didn't miss them, but some of those features are absolutely essential for keeping SOME of us in BB at all. For us, those features are what differentiate BB from iOS and Droid. 10.3.1 is finally starting to restore some of those features. Q20 "Classic" is finally even restoring the tool belt feature!!
    Haha well actually I don't hate BBOS. I like BBOS! I've had it since the 8700 all the way to Bold 9900! I loved OS 7.1! I hated the battery life on the Bold 9900--I occasionally had to do a "battery pull" NOT for a reset but for a battery swap, but "4G" with the efficient handling of the NOC basically made it the most data efficient device that can actually be livable ever!

    I was just making the point that there were annoyances in BBOS that don't exist in BB10. There really are many things the Java-based OS can't achieve without being antiquated.

    The toolbelt is a feature I will miss. That BlackBerry button replaces any need for me to smudge my screen. Haha I did hate the trackpad though. I think I'm more of a click-wheel kind of guy. Haha remember how you had to hold alt when you wanted to scroll left to right? It was cool. Haha and although I am annoyed by the HRT and service book provisioning stuff that most other devices don't have to worry about, BIS was the best and handling email! And if the personal email is Gmail or Outlook.com/(then "Windows Live"), then calendar and contacts synchronisation was great too! And I LOVED the shortcuts on the main screen when you turn off "Dial from Home Screen"!!! I still sometimes accidentally press N to try and open the browser, L to open the calendar app, C for contacts, etc.

    But, come on, BlackBerry Attachment Service might be efficient with data usage, but it was annoying having to re-download something that is already being previewed. And if you got that, or really any entry, deleted from your service books menu by accident, you'll need to re-send service books on BIS! As well, no one needs to have the all unique and special "BlackBerry Internet Service" plan with BB10, which most prepaid carriers and T-Mobile won't offer. It costs them more to rent the licences! Also, BlackBerry Hub is beast!!! Yes, pressing M will give you the universal message list similar to BlackBerry Hub anyway, but it just feels so natural gesturing up-right!

    Also, in regards to the memory leak issue in OS 7.1, I remember it wasn't as prominent as in earlier versions, but I guarantee you that it is still there. I dare you to keep apps wide open and keep switching by holding alt whilst scrolling left and right. Do that several times throughout the day and see if OS 7.1 won't start slowing on you. Check the info and you'll see that you're losing RAM so quickly such that you'll need to do a battery pull if you want your BlackBerry not to fail randomly on you and/or randomly deleting messages, calendar and contact entries. I remember having to clear something by pressing alt+LGLG every few days just to keep things running smoothly and to prevent losing PIM data. I don't remember what I was erasing exactly, but for some reason, from BlackBerry 4.0-7.1, it had helped me not get a "your memory is low" message. Otherwise, I would start seeing that hour glass (older OS) or the black square clock spinning without me realising that it's deleting my ****!

    Posted via BlackBerry Q10 on AT&T
    Norg likes this.
    10-12-14 05:00 AM
  25. Loc22's Avatar
    How is BBOS draging BlackBerry down? They don't support it, they make money off BIS and they are still selling BBOS phones used and new. There is no R & D cost, no additional tooling cost to make the 9900.

    Think like a executive and look at the bottom line.



    No the other way around, people that were on BBOS and went to BB10 when it first came out. Have that feeling of being rip off because BB10 was not ready and the BB10 phones were over prices. Then to top things off RIM came out the the Playbook and abandon the BBOS platform. How many people over paid for that product?

    After 3 years BB10 is only now getting to be what it should have been. I wonder how many man hours went into BB10 to get it up to this point?
    The most important thing is that BBOS 7 requires BIS or BES to work. This means maintaining a network for these phones to work. As time goes on & more BBOS users migrate to other OS or to BlackBerry 10 then BlackBerry will be loosing money to maintain this worldwide network for a few users.

    Posted via CB10
    10-12-14 06:36 AM
129 ... 23456

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