11-14-14 07:44 PM
129 1234 ...
tools
  1. Mr4aces's Avatar
    EBay is still selling atari, laser tag sets, and board games. It doesn't mean there's a market for them. Making observations of local ebay sales and a holding a global inventory in multiple countries in multiple carriers is not the same thing. I bet it.cost more to ship a single shipment of phones to a warehouse in India than the sales of all the bold sales in ebay in a year.

    Posted via CB10
    Westinghouse, GE and other still sell the same basic washer and drier they made 40 years ago.

    I have a manual stapler, hand saw, wrenches, vise, lathe and other equipment over 20-30 years old. These items are still being made today with the exception of the lathe.

    People don't put a value on quality today. Everything is made off shore. Try to find a simple thing like a vise that is not made out of cheap recycled cast iron. A good one cost over $500.

    Anything made well will sell. They might not out sell the import but it will sell. Why manufacture a 100 cheap items and make the same profit as 10 quality ones? Takes less overhead, uses less cash flow........
    10-04-14 09:03 AM
  2. slagman5's Avatar
    I think the faith of the "Classic" was predetermined by a staff that never used the 9900 during the first 2 months if JC tenure. Then to make matters worst they had another bozo to do a rendering that also never used a 9900. JC most likely took the word of these people by the time JC announced the "Classic" the proto types were already setup as a straight keyboard. Mean while the cash went out for a new Q10 with a track belt. Just think if JC would have asked a BBOS employee instead of a BB10 bozo, we would have had the retro 9900 out in 3 months running on BBOS8.

    Look at all the 9900 parts on Ebay and Amazon. Just think same frame, same keyboard, same glass. Make the back a little thicker to accommodate a bigger battery, updated mother board with 2-3g RAM and a better camera.

    If I was running the R & D and my staff could not come up a design in 7 days they would be all fired.

    BBOS8? Just some updates from 7.1 or modify the hybrid. The retro 9900 does not need the BB10 the screen is to small to play games anyway. Sell this for under $200-300 and you have a winner. Dedicate one (1) person to update and develop the BBOS8. And if BIS is going away modify the OS.

    Continue to keep making this retro 9900 til hell freezes over. Drop the price 10-15% each year for 3-4 years.

    While this retro phone is making money and increasing the user base. Start working on a 3.5 screen for the next update 6-10 months later under a new series using BB10.

    I wonder how many man hours went into the BB10 OS to add the track belt with the BBOS hub? I would bet money it is not up to par with BBOS7. I took them 2-3 years to add about half the features that was dropped from OS7.

    Yeah, I'm the guy that was ******** 1-2 mos ago about BB10 not being as good as OS7. I don't think Blend will do everything OS7 does. So if Blend is suppose to incorporate the features of OS7 what happened when BB10 came out?

    OP think I'm beating a dead horse. Open your eyes.

    BB "just don't get it"
    Mr4aces, I have to ask, is this a new thread or have this been open for months? Because I think I remember you making a new thread with this same statement/argument at least 10 times before...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    ThunderShock2005 and rthonpm like this.
    10-04-14 09:03 AM
  3. Mr4aces's Avatar
    Mr4aces, I have to ask, is this a new thread or have this been open for months? Because I think I remember you making a new thread with this same statement/argument at least 10 times before...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Maybe over 10
    10-04-14 09:11 AM
  4. evodevo69's Avatar
    Funny, the old management team had the same idea as you OP, it ain't broke don't fix it, people will never take to typing on glass and apps were a joke.

    You should be thankful BlackBerry is even still around so you can continue to enjoy your BBOS devices because I'm pretty sure had they not changed their management team, had they not bought QNX, and had they not released BB10, they'd be pretty much dead right now.

    Nothing wrong with enjoying old technology - eBay is great for getting your hands on vintage stuff, but to believe BlackBerry can grow and survive by holding onto their legacy OS devices is pretty much ludicrous.

    Like others have said - 10.3.1 brings back all the functionality of BBOS and MORE, and better yet it's built into the OS, you don't need to download and pay for apps to do it (like on bbos).

    Bigger screen, more powerful and robust legacy features, tool-belt, a GIGANTIC battery, and a modern UI with android app support - quit your whining and just get the Classic when it comes out - you'll be glad you did



    #Q10 #Gold #LimitedEdition #CB10
    10-04-14 09:20 AM
  5. MrGlenn's Avatar
    Didn't they just release an updated BBOS device and also a second production run of the 9900? Sounds like they delivered on that area, and now the Classic is the next step.

    No more backwards devices: many relied upon BBOS functions in a BB10 shell is why they call it Classic, not the form factor only. I don't see the problem with a Q10 with toolbelt to be honest.

    BlackBerry Passport signed @ C0007CC89
    FrankIAm, JGoodard and ponpiri like this.
    10-04-14 09:29 AM
  6. flyingsolid's Avatar
    Besides a removable battery, I don't know what else you need. to be as good a the 9900, besides the hourglass we used to get to look at alot.

    Seriously that 10.3.1 leak with shortcuts, and profiles makes the Q10 2 buttons short of perfect.!
    There are a lot of specific (and unique) features that have been lost with the migration to BlackBerry 10. Making a broad statement about how 10.3.1 "makes the Q10 two buttons short of perfect" is not true in the extreme form as presented. Like another poster said in this thread, BlackBerry will have to win some and lose some in this fight to move the product line and code base forward. 10.3.1 is an effort, and those are happy with it will see that when the OS is released. I may not believe that 10.3.1 is the answer, but BlackBerry has to continue and that is what it is doing.
    10-04-14 09:43 AM
  7. slagman5's Avatar
    Funny, the old management team had the same idea as you OP, it ain't broke don't fix it, people will never take to typing on glass and apps were a joke.

    You should be thankful BlackBerry is even still around so you can continue to enjoy your BBOS devices because I'm pretty sure had they not changed their management team, had they not bought QNX, and had they not released BB10, they'd be pretty much dead right now.

    Nothing wrong with enjoying old technology - eBay is great for getting your hands on vintage stuff, but to believe BlackBerry can grow and survive by holding onto their legacy OS devices is pretty much ludicrous.

    Like others have said - 10.3.1 brings back all the functionality of BBOS and MORE, and better yet it's built into the OS, you don't need to download and pay for apps to do it (like on bbos).

    Bigger screen, more powerful and robust legacy features, tool-belt, a GIGANTIC battery, and a modern UI with android app support - quit your whining and just get the Classic when it comes out - you'll be glad you did



    #Q10 #Gold #LimitedEdition #CB10
    While I agree that BB10 is great and it's an overall improvement over using a much slower phone, 10.3.1 doesn't bring back "all" of the old functionality. There are still some things missing. Such as holster sensitive options in the notification settings. In BBOS, when you're customizing a profile, you were given choices for vibrate like always, while in holster, while out of holster, and never. So basically I could make my normal profile to where while my phone is in the holster, it'll ring and vibrate, but while out of holster it'll just ring. I loved that, I don't need it to vibrate the table when I had the phone out...

    There are definitely other functions besides this one, but that's the one that I really can't believe is still not implemented yet. It doesn't seem like it would be hard since the holsters still have that magnet to tell the phone it's in the holster. And I know the OS recognizes that as well since there is the option to answer a call or end a call when you take your phone out of the holster or put the phone back in. All it needs is for the option to be added back into the notification settings... I hope they add this feature back.

    But 10.3.1 does bring it the closest it has been so far. So it's definitely moving in the right direction...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    flyingsolid likes this.
    10-04-14 09:47 AM
  8. eddy_berry's Avatar
    Westinghouse, GE and other still sell the same basic washer and drier they made 40 years ago.

    I have a manual stapler, hand saw, wrenches, vise, lathe and other equipment over 20-30 years old. These items are still being made today with the exception of the lathe.

    People don't put a value on quality today. Everything is made off shore. Try to find a simple thing like a vise that is not made out of cheap recycled cast iron. A good one cost over $500.

    Anything made well will sell. They might not out sell the import but it will sell. Why manufacture a 100 cheap items and make the same profit as 10 quality ones? Takes less overhead, uses less cash flow........
    Not a good example man. The washer/dryer you bought 20 years ago is not compatible with a new set. You can't swap parts out of one into the other. Everything evolves even something as simplistic as a washer and dryer. The new washer and dryer would also likely be 100x more efficient than the one you bought 20 years ago.

    The tools are also a different story. Those are the type of things that you really can't alter much anymore. They are useful as they are and aren't economical to evolve further.

    The other thing you state is people not putting a value on quality. That is untrue. These days we put a value on a good balance of quality and affordability. If you want a high quality tool you pay more for a German made one. If you can't afford that then you get an American made one. Still good quality but cheaper. And if you can't afford that or don't care and are driven by price alone you buy a Chinese made one and then buy another one next year. And another... and another. I used to sell tools. Lol.

    BlackBerry is already in the game of making high quality devices in smaller numbers. People recognize my Q10 as a high quality device. The thing is they are also in the business of hardware, software and services which all evolves at a rapid pace. Unlike a tool manufacturer, they can't just keep making the same device for 20 years.

    Posted via CB10
    Trees and JGoodard like this.
    10-04-14 10:12 AM
  9. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Such as holster sensitive options in the notification settings. In BBOS, when you're customizing a profile, you were given choices for vibrate like always, while in holster, while out of holster, and never. So basically I could make my normal profile to where while my phone is in the holster, it'll ring and vibrate, but while out of holster it'll just ring. I loved that, I don't need it to vibrate the table when I had the phone out...
    Profile Changer Pro, take a look
    10-04-14 10:24 AM
  10. slagman5's Avatar
    Profile Changer Pro, take a look
    Unless I'm mistaken, that changes your profile. I don't want to change profiles. If I'm in normal, I want to stay in normal, if I'm in vibrate only I want to stay in vibrate only. I simply want it to only change the vibrate setting for the very specific situation that I set it to. Meaning in vibrate only, I want it to always vibrate regardless of holster. But while in normal mode, I want it to vibrate and ring while in holster and only ring out of holster. Although with 10.3.1 if they update that app to work on that, it can probably be made to work since I can simply make a separate profile for only ring and one for ring and vibrate and just have the app switch between them or something like that...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    10-04-14 10:29 AM
  11. Coffee Shampoo's Avatar
    BlackBerry 10 is a way more powerful OS. Something I would have liked is a theme that resembles the old BlackBerry 7 devices.

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-14 10:33 AM
  12. Beakman's Avatar
    This really belongs in the "Armchair CEO" forum
    Or a real crackhouse.
    ThunderShock2005 likes this.
    10-04-14 10:50 AM
  13. Mr4aces's Avatar
    Not a good example man. The washer/dryer you bought 20 years ago is not compatible with a new set. You can't swap parts out of one into the other. Everything evolves even something as simplistic as a washer and dryer. The new washer and dryer would also likely be 100x more efficient than the one you bought 20 years ago.
    100x better? Only difference is automatic settings. Have you replaced your computerized refrigerator yet? The only reason I bought a new refrigerator was style.

    The tools are also a different story. Those are the type of things that you really can't alter much anymore. They are useful as they are and aren't economical to evolve further.

    The other thing you state is people not putting a value on quality. That is untrue. These days we put a value on a good balance of quality and affordability. If you want a high quality tool you pay more for a German made one. If you can't afford that then you get an American made one. Still good quality but cheaper. And if you can't afford that or don't care and are driven by price alone you buy a Chinese made one and then buy another one next year. And another... and another. I used to sell tools. Lol.

    BlackBerry is already in the game of making high quality devices in smaller numbers. People recognize my Q10 as a high quality device. The thing is they are also in the business of hardware, software and services which all evolves at a rapid pace. Unlike a tool manufacturer, they can't just keep making the same device for 20 years.

    Posted via CB10
    LOL what a great profession, then you really understand the difference in recyled steel. Didn't it make you sick to see people choose price over quality? Tools are the one thing you always buy the best.

    Wasn't the Q10 made by BB?
    So what do you think about BB out sourcing the new phones?
    10-04-14 11:31 AM
  14. eduzojordan's Avatar
    If you think continuing to release BBOS phones would "increase there user base", then I don't know what else to say. We just disagree.
    I advice don't waste your time, this is the second or third post of OP suggesting that BB should keep doing
    old BB devices with old BB OS.
    10-04-14 11:48 AM
  15. Mr4aces's Avatar
    Funny, the old management team had the same idea as you OP, it ain't broke don't fix it, people will never take to typing on glass and apps were a joke.

    You should be thankful BlackBerry is even still around so you can continue to enjoy your BBOS devices because I'm pretty sure had they not changed their management team, had they not bought QNX, and had they not released BB10, they'd be pretty much dead right now.
    That is not why RIM/ML went down. Arrogance by ignoring the changing industry and poor management. RIM/ML still could have made up for the time lost if they had a well designed plan. RIM/ML's upper management was not the professionals they were made out to be. Success came from the brilliant mind of ML not good management. It takes many top professionals to run a billion dollar business. It is very hard to grow quickly because to many times people get promoted beyond their capabilities or there is not enough top executives available when you want them. Look how long it to JC to surround himself with his team 6-8 months.

    Just a few big mistakes lead to the down fall. Then when things kept falling apart it landslided. If RIM/ML would have just up dated the 9900 it would have bought them time to develop the BB10 properly. The BB10 was shoved out the door half done. Then you have the arrogance of having millions of dollars in inventory for a new product that is not ready. All this might have been saved by the Q10 if it had a tool belt, because the 9900 users didn't automatically buy it. It is only now that BB10 is doing the things BBOS does. The foundation of BB10 was wrong, it should have been a QNX/BBOS base with the touch screen on top. So here we are 3 years later doing what should have been done when it was run by RIM/ML, building a Q10 with a tool belt.

    I wonder if Apple and Samsung is laughing their *** off about the Classic?

    BlackBerry will never be able to keep up with Apple or Samsung, they have to much money. The only way BB can compete in the mobile industry is that niche market and by using QNX to elevate their phones to work with the "things" market.

    I would think BB start separating themselves from what we know as a phone. The possibilities is wide open for BB to develop QNX. Just think a machinist could use his phone to operate his CNC machine, or a any "thing" computerized can by run by a BB phone with special apps. Everything computerized will have the capabilities to be remotely accessed. Apps what we know today will be for QNX functions not gaming. Apps for things will make big money. JC know all this.

    Nothing wrong with enjoying old technology - eBay is great for getting your hands on vintage stuff, but to believe BlackBerry can grow and survive by holding onto their legacy OS devices is pretty much ludicrous.

    Like others have said - 10.3.1 brings back all the functionality of BBOS and MORE, and better yet it's built into the OS, you don't need to download and pay for apps to do it (like on bbos).

    Bigger screen, more powerful and robust legacy features, tool-belt, a GIGANTIC battery, and a modern UI with android app support - quit your whining and just get the Classic when it comes out - you'll be glad you did

    #Q10 #Gold #LimitedEdition #CB10
    Yes the Classic will be that phone. Makes me wonder what would have happened if the Q10 would have had that tool belt to begin with. More BB users? Maybe faith is what it is and BB users should be glad RIM/ML failed, otherwise BB would be still under that same management.
    Last edited by Mr4aces; 10-04-14 at 12:27 PM.
    10-04-14 12:08 PM
  16. Dirtymike14's Avatar
    Removable battery;
    Convince button;
    Ergonomic key board;
    Charging contacts;

    I can live without the convince button and charging ports. But the fixed battery turns the phone into "disposable"after 2 years, because most people won't take the phone apart to replace the battery.

    The fluid design of the ergonomic keyboard is un touchable. And will help prevent Carpal Tunnel in your thumbs.

    Yes the "Classic" is going to be better than the Q10 and the 9900 but it will never out type the 9900.
    Most phone contracts are 2 years anyways, so if it's disposable after 2 years then that works out nicely. Plus I could argue that the 9900 will never out type the 9000...

    Posted via CB10
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-04-14 12:21 PM
  17. Mr4aces's Avatar
    Most phone contracts are 2 years anyways, so if it's disposable after 2 years then that works out nicely. Plus I could argue that the 9900 will never out type the 9000...

    Posted via CB10
    Ok never had a 9000 but it is still a BBOS

    10-04-14 12:35 PM
  18. eddy_berry's Avatar
    100x better? Only difference is automatic settings. Have you replaced your computerized refrigerator yet? The only reason I bought a new refrigerator was style.

    LOL what a great profession, then you really understand the difference in recyled steel. Didn't it make you sick to see people choose price over quality? Tools are the one thing you always buy the best.

    Wasn't the Q10 made by BB?
    So what do you think about BB out sourcing the new phones?
    I said 100x more efficient. As in power and water usage. The electronics being added to household appliances can be a godsend and a burden at the same time. More options and controls can be great and yet they can also be confusing to many people. Those electronics don't last nearly as long as the old analog controls resulting in shorter product lifespans as well. So being better is not necessarily true.

    Also I said I used to sell tools. Not anymore. I work in aerospace manufacturing and have very good quality tools. Back then I didn't care what people bought. I wasn't the one using it so I didn't care. It was actually the contractors that bought cheap consumer tools over and over again that miffed me. They would never listen.

    Lastly the sourcing of device manufacturing is not a big deal. People these days want to be paid more and spend less and corporations want to make more money and still stay competitive. My Q10 was made in Mexico for that very reason. Still very good quality. So was my Bold 9900. I have an 8900 built in Hungary and a 7280 that was made in Canada. Those still work too. The material and design is still up to BlackBerry engineers though.
    10-04-14 12:48 PM
  19. Mr4aces's Avatar
    I said 100x more efficient. As in power and water usage. The electronics being added to household appliances can be a godsend and a burden at the same time. More options and controls can be great and yet they can also be confusing to many people. Those electronics don't last nearly as long as the old analog controls resulting in shorter product lifespans as well. So being better is not necessarily true.

    Also I said I used to sell tools. Not anymore. I work in aerospace manufacturing and have very good quality tools. Back then I didn't care what people bought. I wasn't the one using it so I didn't care. It was actually the contractors that bought cheap consumer tools over and over again that miffed me. They would never listen.

    Lastly the sourcing of device manufacturing is not a big deal. People these days want to be paid more and spend less and corporations want to make more money and still stay competitive. My Q10 was made in Mexico for that very reason. Still very good quality. So was my Bold 9900. I have an 8900 built in Hungary and a 7280 that was made in Canada. Those still work too. The material and design is still up to BlackBerry engineers though.
    Thanks, was all the Q10's made and assembled in Mexico? Did you have keyboard problems with your Q10? You must be a patient man to go through the BB10's initial problems.

    If I'm reading between the lines you were a aerospace tool manufacturer? So you understand what I'm talking about when I refer to bad decisions by poor management?

    Outsourcing: The most important part is inspection and quality control.
    eddy_berry likes this.
    10-04-14 12:59 PM
  20. idssteve's Avatar
    I agree with OP in wanting a compact, 9900 sized and featured, device fitted with modern OS, processor, ram, etc. Simply put, the Q20 "Classic" is not that device. Despite overstated claims in this thread, the Q20 "Classic" does NOT restore "ALL" or "EVERY" functionality lost from 9900. Generalized overstatements like that counter-productively miss the point but 10.3.1 has taken a significant leap forward to 7.1 level maturity. Or, at least about 4.5 level maturity, anyway. A GOOD thing. If the original Z had intro'd with 10.3.1 and Q10 with toolbelt, we would ALL be discussing vastly different topics today, IMO.

    I, for one, simply could not find a way to care less whether the device software is BBOS, BB10, QNX, Linux, CP/M, Pascal, etc. so long as the end result provides users with the experience they want. BBOS was bumping limits, especially running touch interfaces, but blaming it for BB's nose dive is like blaming a 30yr old horse for loosing the race. It simply isn't the old horse's fault the owner didn't get the young colt ready years earlier!! Rushing a poorly prepared young colt into a race is a recipe for last place. Delaying till BBOS was over the hill and THEN belatedly rushing an immature BB10 to market was also a recipe for last place, imo. It can be successfully argued that getting rid of BBOS's infamous "spinning clock" probably helped sales. In what way did getting rid of profile customization IMPROVE sales? Rushing a half baked OS into premature service did as much to damage BB's market share as anything BBOS's "spinning clock" had done, IMO.

    All that said, here we are. Here, with Passport and "Classic", is finally a pretty darned good place to be! The Q20 "Classic" is not a direct replacement for 9900's. I don't believe it was meant to be. If it were meant to replace the 9900, why re-release 9900s just month's before Q20's release? I believe it is a logical and worthy upgrade path for the Q10 and THAT is a VERY good thing! We finally get toolbelt fitted to a BB10.3.1 device!! Life could always be better but Q20 "Classic" might just be as good as it gets for a while. No device will fit all needs, and each individual must evaluate their needs individually, but Q20 "Classic" is certainly worth considering, imo.
    gabbleratchet likes this.
    10-04-14 01:24 PM
  21. eddy_berry's Avatar
    Thanks, was all the Q10's made and assembled in Mexico? Did you have keyboard problems with your Q10? You must be a patient man to go through the BB10's initial problems.

    If I'm reading between the lines you were a aerospace tool manufacturer? So you understand what I'm talking about when I refer to bad decisions by poor management?

    Outsourcing: The most important part is inspection and quality control.
    I think some were made in Hungary and USA as well. I can't remember now.

    It looks like you blurred the lines regarding my profession. A long time ago I sold tools for a living to both contractors and consumers and currently I am in aerospace building aircraft avionics components using high quality tools because I really have to. Not that I would use cheap tools anyway. But yes, bad decisions by poor management. It happens all the time, but I hear that a lot with Bombardier. I don't work for them though.
    10-04-14 01:28 PM
  22. spork141's Avatar
    I agree with OP in wanting a compact, 9900 sized and featured, device fitted with modern OS, processor, ram, etc. Simply put, the Q20 "Classic" is not that device. Despite overstated claims in this thread, the Q20 "Classic" does NOT restore "ALL" or "EVERY" functionality lost from 9900. Generalized overstatements like that counter-productively miss the point but 10.3.1 has taken a significant leap forward to 7.1 level maturity. Or, at least about 4.5 level maturity, anyway. A GOOD thing. If the original Z had intro'd with 10.3.1 and Q10 with toolbelt, we would ALL be discussing vastly different topics today, IMO.

    I, for one, simply could not find a way to care less whether the device software is BBOS, BB10, QNX, Linux, CP/M, Pascal, etc. so long as the end result provides users with the experience they want. BBOS was bumping limits, especially running touch interfaces, but blaming it for BB's nose dive is like blaming a 30yr old horse for loosing the race. It simply isn't the old horse's fault the owner didn't get the young colt ready years earlier!! Rushing a poorly prepared young colt into a race is a recipe for last place. Delaying till BBOS was over the hill and THEN belatedly rushing an immature BB10 to market was also a recipe for last place, imo. It can be successfully argued that getting rid of BBOS's infamous "spinning clock" probably helped sales. In what way did getting rid of profile customization IMPROVE sales? Rushing a half baked OS into premature service did as much to damage BB's market share as anything BBOS's "spinning clock" had done, IMO.

    All that said, here we are. Here, with Passport and "Classic", is finally a pretty darned good place to be! The Q20 "Classic" is not a direct replacement for 9900's. I don't believe it was meant to be. If it were meant to replace the 9900, why re-release 9900s just month's before Q20's release? I believe it is a logical and worthy upgrade path for the Q10 and THAT is a VERY good thing! We finally get toolbelt fitted to a BB10.3.1 device!! Life could always be better but Q20 "Classic" might just be as good as it gets for a while. No device will fit all needs, and each individual must evaluate their needs individually, but Q20 "Classic" is certainly worth considering, imo.
    I agree with everything you said here, and that's rare for us, but I don't think bb10 launched "half baked". I don't think sales were bad because the fan base didn't upgrade either. The blackberry name is ruined. For now at least. And they didn't wanna accept it. They bought way too many z10s and we're way too optimistic. Chens more accurate with pricing and inventory so far. And it's paid off. Hopefully this is l good sense that we are going back in the right direction.

    Posted via CB10
    10-04-14 01:35 PM
  23. idssteve's Avatar
    I agree with everything you said here, and that's rare for us, but I don't think bb10 launched "half baked". I don't think sales were bad because the fan base didn't upgrade either. The blackberry name is ruined. For now at least. And they didn't wanna accept it. They bought way too many z10s and we're way too optimistic. Chens more accurate with pricing and inventory so far. And it's paid off. Hopefully this is l good sense that we are going back in the right direction.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, most of the "half baked" i was referring to was my contention that lack of time to evolve tool belt coding was the real reason behind abandonment of the toolbelt on the Q10. How many ppl bought the Q10 expressly because it did NOT have a toolbelt? More than a few legacy BBOSers refused to buy it for the same reason. Of course some will contend that lack of tool belt was, in itself, a "feature". I remember when lack of automatic time zone update was referred to around here as a "feature"... sometime around OS4.2, or so...

    BBOS's reputation was obviously pretty positive with legacy BBOS "hold outs". Like many, my experience with early 7.0 was "spinning clock" abysmal but BB eventually matured it into shape. 7.1.0.1066 truly is pretty well behaved. Too little too late but... Q10's lack of toolbelt cost significant migration sales while obviously doing little to attract iPhone & Droid consumers. It also did some damage to BB's reputation among the legacy BBOS "hold outs". The whole thing was abysmally executed on multiple levels. All academic, at this point, though. Q20 "Classic" fitted with 10.3.1 is a great step in the right direction. No 9900, and not meant to be, but if the unfortunate name were never invoked, virtually everyone would likely just accept and welcome it as a worthy, and well past due, upgrade to the Q10. The Q that should have been, imo.

    Apple is vulnerable and i, personally, believe BB is well positioned to exploit a slight market of users growing bored and dissatisfied with typing on glass. Q20 "Classic" might just pick up some market from surprising directions. Chen has proven he's the man for the daunting job. I sure wouldn't swap places with him...
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-04-14 04:12 PM
  24. spork141's Avatar
    Yeah, most of the "half baked" i was referring to was my contention that lack of time to evolve tool belt coding was the real reason behind abandonment of the toolbelt on the Q10. How many ppl bought the Q10 expressly because it did NOT have a toolbelt? More than a few legacy BBOSers refused to buy it for the same reason. Of course some will contend that lack of tool belt was, in itself, a "feature". I remember when lack of automatic time zone update was referred to around here as a "feature"... sometime around OS4.2, or so...

    BBOS's reputation was obviously pretty positive with legacy BBOS "hold outs". Like many, my experience with early 7.0 was "spinning clock" abysmal but BB eventually matured it into shape. 7.1.0.1066 truly is pretty well behaved. Too little too late but... Q10's lack of toolbelt cost significant migration sales while obviously doing little to attract iPhone & Droid consumers. It also did some damage to BB's reputation among the legacy BBOS "hold outs". The whole thing was abysmally executed on multiple levels. All academic, at this point, though. Q20 "Classic" fitted with 10.3.1 is a great step in the right direction. No 9900, and not meant to be, but if the unfortunate name were never invoked, virtually everyone would likely just accept and welcome it as a worthy, and well past due, upgrade to the Q10. The Q that should have been, imo.

    Apple is vulnerable and i, personally, believe BB is well positioned to exploit a slight market of users growing bored and dissatisfied with typing on glass. Q20 "Classic" might just pick up some market from surprising directions. Chen has proven he's the man for the daunting job. I sure wouldn't swap places with him...
    I think the lack of toolbelt might have turned off more than a few bbosers, but I don't think the toolbelt would have made a significant difference in q10 sales back then. When I say back then I mean the time where BlackBerry actually figured the iphone and Android users of the world were still interested in BlackBerry. Seems not

    Chen seems to think that if he nails the price and the inventory then he can start winning back small areas. Get back the bbosers and get back some enterprise and some Canadians. Get people used to seeing new blackberries again. Then we can worry about the next step. I think this is a sound plan. Should have been the plan from the beginning.

    I don't think apple and Android even really need to be a part of the convo at the moment. If every apple fan who misses their blackberry left at the same day, apples market share would not even notice. In order for that to matter, BlackBerry needs to no longer be a joke. In a sense it needs to be kind of cool again. We are years away from that.

    Posted via CB10
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-04-14 05:48 PM
  25. Impartial's Avatar
    Imagine if we are in JC's position. Let's ask ourselves whether we should be stuck at some of the mistakes that the old/current management have made in the past? And feel depressed over it.

    Or, should we as a CEO learn from that and move forward by improving the CLASSIC?

    All the little mistakes that has been done in the past has already passed. We should now move forward with BB10.

    When JC took over last yr, BB was in all sorts of trouble. We shouldn't criticise him for not making q10 PERFECT. His first priority is to cut cost and safe the company first. Let us just move on.

    Posted via CB10
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-04-14 07:42 PM
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