09-25-14 09:05 PM
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  1. spork141's Avatar
    I'm sure all of the businesses using iphones are doing it to save money. Just saying...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    It's not them buying the phones, it's their companies. They buy 20 / 30 of them and give them to their employees for use. They don't care about your phone heating up. They care about overall value. Spend less and get more. This is why "good enough" is important to the classic. It's actually imperative to its success.

    Z30 internals will do well on a 720x720 device. And it'll cost BlackBerry less for parts (greater supply at lower demand) and development (since they already used it on a z30). Pass the savings on to the customer (mostly enterprise) and your "C" graded phone becomes a winner.

    Go high end and you'll have a $599 dud with tons of dead stock.

    Posted via CB10
    JGoodard likes this.
    08-24-14 07:20 PM
  2. slagman5's Avatar
    It's not them buying the phones, it's their companies. They buy 20 / 30 of them and give them to their employees for use. They don't care about your phone heating up. They care about overall value. Spend less and get more. This is why "good enough" is important to the classic. It's actually imperative to its success.

    Z30 internals will do well on a 720x720 device. And it'll cost BlackBerry less for parts (greater supply at lower demand) and development (since they already used it on a z30). Pass the savings on to the customer (mostly enterprise) and your "C" graded phone becomes a winner.

    Go high end and you'll have a $599 dud with tons of dead stock.

    Posted via CB10
    Well, my point is that iphones are not cheap either. They cost as much as high-end phones with their mediocre internals...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    08-24-14 07:39 PM
  3. spork141's Avatar
    Well, my point is that iphones are not cheap either. They cost as much as high-end phones with their mediocre internals...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Listen. We can go back and forth forever. Point is, the classic is not positioned for a high end device. The fact is that even if it could benefit from the high end internals, it wouldn't cause a significant jump in customer interest. Not enough to warrant the price which would be a detractor for that class of phone. That high end market wants big shiney pixel dense touch screens to brag about, and blackberry is already trying to tackle this market with the passport.

    So the classic being "good enough" is fine for me and many others. That's because it's either "good enough" or blackberry would axe the device. And I would be happy to look passed a few minor edgecases so I can get the device I've been waiting for.

    Posted via CB10
    JGoodard likes this.
    08-24-14 07:55 PM
  4. idssteve's Avatar
    Not all business managers went to the same school. There is, no doubt, no shortage of "management without a clue" that think they can "save their way into a profit" through shortsighted strategies. They'll get their promotions into their "level of incompetency" while the poor sucker taking their place behind them gets to deal with the results. For that business management model, "good enough is good enough".

    Future proofing means the business can prolong the period before enduring the learning curve of the next device "upgrade". Businesses paid TOP dollar for the highest spec device BB offered, three years ago. What has changed since then??

    My management keeps inquiring if we'll be adding "security apps" to our devices over the next couple years. Q30 specs are certainly "good enough" for now. Are they future proofed enough to power unforeseen "security apps"?? IDK what to tell them... probably??

    All that said, the PassPort is intended to be a high risk entry. Q20 is a "safer bet". Q30 guts do have a proven record of reliability. Something all businesses value. THAT, imo, is why the 20 gets proven hardware. NOT price. IMO.
    Last edited by idssteve; 08-24-14 at 08:56 PM.
    08-24-14 08:00 PM
  5. slagman5's Avatar
    Listen. We can go back and forth forever. Point is, the classic is not positioned for a high end device. The fact is that even if it could benefit from the high end internals, it wouldn't cause a significant jump in customer interest. Not enough to warrant the price which would be a detractor for that class of phone. That high end market wants big shiney pixel dense touch screens to brag about, and blackberry is already trying to tackle this market with the passport.

    So the classic being "good enough" is fine for me and many others. That's because it's either "good enough" or blackberry would axe the device. And I would be happy to look passed a few minor edgecases so I can get the device I've been waiting for.

    Posted via CB10
    I just feel like for some people, not particularly you, would have argued that this is the best way to whichever way they would have picked...

    Edit: oops, just realized it sounds wrong. I meant some people would argue however they chose to do it is the best way.

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Last edited by slagman5; 08-24-14 at 09:49 PM.
    08-24-14 08:01 PM
  6. spork141's Avatar
    Not all business managers went to the same school. There is, no doubt, no shortage of "management without a clue" that think they can "save their way into a profit" through shortsighted strategies. They'll get their promotions into their "level of incompetency" while the poor sucker taking their place behind them gets to deal with the results. For that business management model, "good enough is good enough".

    Future proofing means the business can prolong the period before enduring the learning curve of the next device "upgrade". Businesses paid TOP dollar for the highest spec device BB offered, three years ago. What has changed since then??

    My management keeps inquiring if we'll be adding "security apps" to our devices over the next couple years. Q30 specs are certainly "good enough" for now. Are they future proofed enough to power unforeseen "security apps"?? IDK what to tell them... probably??

    All that said, the PassPort is intended to be a high risk entry. Q20 is a "safer bet". Q30 guts do have a proven record of reliability. Something all businesses value. THAT, imo, is why the 20 gets proven hardware. NOT price. IMO.
    Well I have to argue the point of "future proofing". It's a nice buzz term and all but is it realistic to say that anyone knows the type of processing power the future brings? I'm sure the top dollar blackberry was a good idea the day before the original iphone was announced. In contrast, most blackberry I see in nyc are bold 9900's which likely can't run a single modern day app that isn't produced by blackberry. But they are still around in droves probably bringing in billions of dollars on behalf of their users.

    So what is future proofing? There's no such thing. It all depends on your goals for the immediate future. If all you need is secure email, then get some q5s and call it a day. If you might need to run oculus rift off of your phone one day, get some galaxy s5s. Still a guess. Just an informed one.

    Either way your company likely doesn't want to break the bank on a gamble. Is the passport future proof? I'd think that's a big risk. If it flops would blackberry support it? I would think the classic is a safer bet. At least if it flops you likely didn't break the bank.

    So yeah. Price doesn't always mean future proof. And I'm pretty sure, from experience, every company will be somewhat concerned with price to some degree.

    Posted via CB10
    08-24-14 09:57 PM
  7. slagman5's Avatar
    Well I have to argue the point of "future proofing". It's a nice buzz term and all but is it realistic to say that anyone knows the type of processing power the future brings? I'm sure the top dollar blackberry was a good idea the day before the original iphone was announced. In contrast, most blackberry I see in nyc are bold 9900's which likely can't run a single modern day app that isn't produced by blackberry. But they are still around in droves probably bringing in billions of dollars on behalf of their users.

    So what is future proofing? There's no such thing. It all depends on your goals for the immediate future. If all you need is secure email, then get some q5s and call it a day. If you might need to run oculus rift off of your phone one day, get some galaxy s5s. Still a guess. Just an informed one.

    Either way your company likely doesn't want to break the bank on a gamble. Is the passport future proof? I'd think that's a big risk. If it flops would blackberry support it? I would think the classic is a safer bet. At least if it flops you likely didn't break the bank.

    So yeah. Price doesn't always mean future proof. And I'm pretty sure, from experience, every company will be somewhat concerned with price to some degree.

    Posted via CB10
    All I know is that when I'm building my PC, future proofing it wouldn't be installing hardware from 2 years ago. But hey, I acknowledge I'm usually in the minority with my opinions, so perhaps the rest of the world is fine with "good enough" while I'm the odd one out. Oh well, what can you do?

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    08-24-14 11:35 PM
  8. idssteve's Avatar
    Well I have to argue the point of "future proofing". It's a nice buzz term and all but is it realistic to say that anyone knows the type of processing power the future brings? I'm sure the top dollar blackberry was a good idea the day before the original iphone was announced. In contrast, most blackberry I see in nyc are bold 9900's which likely can't run a single modern day app that isn't produced by blackberry. But they are still around in droves probably bringing in billions of dollars on behalf of their users.

    So what is future proofing? There's no such thing. It all depends on your goals for the immediate future. If all you need is secure email, then get some q5s and call it a day. If you might need to run oculus rift off of your phone one day, get some galaxy s5s. Still a guess. Just an informed one.

    Either way your company likely doesn't want to break the bank on a gamble. Is the passport future proof? I'd think that's a big risk. If it flops would blackberry support it? I would think the classic is a safer bet. At least if it flops you likely didn't break the bank.

    So yeah. Price doesn't always mean future proof. And I'm pretty sure, from experience, every company will be somewhat concerned with price to some degree.

    Posted via CB10
    We seem to agree that Q30 specs are most appropriate for Q20. I contend that fitting the 20 with relatively unproven (for BB) Passport specs would be a tough sell to my reliability conscious management. No one wants to waste money but we would happily pay more for 20's with proven Q30 "guts" than for unproven PP "guts". The cost of loosing a single client because of device failure makes the price of the device nearly irrelevant. No two companies are identical so maybe we're not necessarily representative. ?? Of course tax deductions might represent price discounts for companies in the black. Naturally companies in the red have nothing to deduct so..

    On the other hand, its worth noting that, AFAIK, the 9900 commanded top $$ three yrs ago. Several years after iPhone intro. its top of the BB line specs "future proofed" it enough to keep it serviceable three yrs later.

    Q10 specs for the 20 would be four yrs old, two yrs from now. At least Q30 specs will only be three yrs old, two yrs from now. Like the three year old 9900 specs are today.
    08-25-14 12:31 AM
  9. zocster's Avatar
    Hmm at this rate I think I will stick to my Q10 for the time being. Having just bought a white one along with current black.

    I just don't like the fact that there is no removable battery planned for this pup.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Q10 using Tapatalk
    Mr4aces likes this.
    08-25-14 12:42 AM
  10. idssteve's Avatar
    Hmm at this rate I think I will stick to my Q10 for the time being. Having just bought a white one along with current black.

    I just don't like the fact that there is no removable battery planned for this pup.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Q10 using Tapatalk
    Has the fixed battery been confirmed? If so, specs aside, that's a deal killer for us.
    08-25-14 05:46 AM
  11. spork141's Avatar
    All I know is that when I'm building my PC, future proofing it wouldn't be installing hardware from 2 years ago. But hey, I acknowledge I'm usually in the minority with my opinions, so perhaps the rest of the world is fine with "good enough" while I'm the odd one out. Oh well, what can you do?

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    But Slagman. Just like "Future proofing" adds cost to your PC, future proofing a device adds cost to the device. And when BlackBerry is discussing releasing a product, they likley aren't seeing future proofing as a marketing term to drive sales. But they are talking about pricing it right to drive sales. That's for sure.

    I'd rather the classic come with all the top end specs. I just know it won't happen. I'll accept so I can get all the other good things the device will come with.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-14 06:05 AM
  12. slagman5's Avatar
    But Slagman. Just like "Future proofing" adds cost to your PC, future proofing a device adds cost to the device. And when BlackBerry is discussing releasing a product, they likley aren't seeing future proofing as a marketing term to drive sales. But they are talking about pricing it right to drive sales. That's for sure.

    I'd rather the classic come with all the top end specs. I just know it won't happen. I'll accept so I can get all the other good things the device will come with.

    Posted via CB10
    Not as much as you'd think really. The two major components, CPU and GPU, getting something I would consider "future proof" and something slightly out-dated but still is "good enough" is at most $100 difference, and that's retail. Meaning production cost difference is probably less. And with my PC, my philosophy on specs are the same. I don't need top-end components, because they are usually overpriced and a bit over powered, but I get like one tier below the current top-end, which is still a bit over powered but is at a very competitive price. I was kind of hoping the same for the Classic, specs that are not top-end, but still better than what we need at this very moment. But again, that's just me...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Mr4aces likes this.
    08-25-14 07:04 AM
  13. spork141's Avatar
    Not as much as you'd think really. The two major components, CPU and GPU, getting something I would consider "future proof" and something slightly out-dated but still is "good enough" is at most $100 difference, and that's retail. Meaning production cost difference is probably less. And with my PC, my philosophy on specs are the same. I don't need top-end components, because they are usually overpriced and a bit over powered, but I get like one tier below the current top-end, which is still a bit over powered but is at a very competitive price. I was kind of hoping the same for the Classic, specs that are not top-end, but still better than what we need at this very moment. But again, that's just me...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    But I think the z30 specs fall into that category. It was the blackberry flagship of "last year" (november?). Still pretty good stuff, especially since it'll be powering only a 3.5 inch screen now.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-14 08:40 AM
  14. mountainman's Avatar
    It doesn't really matter all that much to me. I understand what slag is saying, but for me the camera is one of the most important specs. It can lag a little for me, as long as it doesn't embarrass me LOL.

    Plus, the Passport is ugly. There I said it.
    08-25-14 08:50 AM
  15. 3rdStone's Avatar

    Plus, the Passport is ugly. There I said it.
    I don't know why more people haven't said just that. It is easily the ugliest phone I've ever seen.

    There is a huge amount of "Emperor's New Clothes" going on with that that atrocity of design. Should be called the Blackberry "Feo."
    08-25-14 09:45 AM
  16. mountainman's Avatar
    I don't know why more people haven't said just that. It is easily the ugliest phone I've ever seen.

    There is a huge amount of "Emperor's New Clothes" going on with that that atrocity of design. Should be called the Blackberry "Feo."
    So true... it's like the old Robin Williams stand up when they couldn't get the Pandas to mate and RB says (as the male Panda) "That is an ugly Panda b****"

    Even though the Classic is marketed towards the business user, I would still rock it if it had a good camera. Not a good enough camera. Time will tell..... Do we know for sure if it's 8MP like the Q10?
    08-25-14 09:56 AM
  17. idssteve's Avatar
    But I think the z30 specs fall into that category. It was the blackberry flagship of "last year" (november?). Still pretty good stuff, especially since it'll be powering only a 3.5 inch screen now.

    Posted via CB10
    Q30... er, i mean Z30 specs are still BB "flagship", afaik. We've been calling Q20 the Q30, in the breakroom since that's what we now feel it should be called. If the PP specs had at least a few months of Raid (bug killer) i'd be all over it for Q20/30 specs but... reliability must trump EVERYthing else for a business device. That includes specs AND price. Our customers are also businesses. Mostly production. Downtime for some of them can run into several $K per minute!! We get emergency calls at ALL hours. The sun never sets on our "parent" company's customer base. Our devices are our "real time" link with clients and colleagues around the globe. Our clients couldn't care less what OUR devices cost. If they can't get timely and efficient support, there are at least two competitors they can, and should, turn to. Loosing a single client to one of our very competitive competitors would, and has, cost us 1000 X what ever our devices cost. Our devices MUST work when called upon. Specs or price be damned.

    We're not still using 9900's because they're cheap. Nor because of their blazing specs. MANY features of the device simply fit our needs best. To that end, the single Z30 "feature" i dearly wish they'd left out of the new Q is the fixed battery. Ahrg!! BB KNOWS how to make the perfect device. They've done it. BBRY just refuses to remember. lol
    08-25-14 10:29 AM
  18. idssteve's Avatar
    So true... it's like the old Robin Williams stand up when they couldn't get the Pandas to mate and RB says (as the male Panda) "That is an ugly Panda b****"

    Even though the Classic is marketed towards the business user, I would still rock it if it had a good camera. Something the 99 is abysmal for. Not a good enough camera. Time will tell..... Do we know for sure if it's 8MP like the Q10?
    Camera specs could be VERY useful for some businesses. I still use my Q for "photo-copying" documents. Mostly electrical and mechanical diagrams. Capabilities will find a use!
    08-25-14 10:51 AM
  19. phuoc's Avatar

    Plus, the Passport is ugly. There I said it.
    My granddaughter says it looks like SpongeBob SquarePants' phone.
    Igoran69 and Xenolock like this.
    08-25-14 12:05 PM
  20. spork141's Avatar
    Q30... er, i mean Z30 specs are still BB "flagship", afaik. We've been calling Q20 the Q30, in the breakroom since that's what we now feel it should be called. If the PP specs had at least a few months of Raid (bug killer) i'd be all over it for Q20/30 specs but... reliability must trump EVERYthing else for a business device. That includes specs AND price. Our customers are also businesses. Mostly production. Downtime for some of them can run into several $K per minute!! We get emergency calls at ALL hours. The sun never sets on our "parent" company's customer base. Our devices are our "real time" link with clients and colleagues around the globe. Our clients couldn't care less what OUR devices cost. If they can't get timely and efficient support, there are at least two competitors they can, and should, turn to. Loosing a single client to one of our very competitive competitors would, and has, cost us 1000 X what ever our devices cost. Our devices MUST work when called upon. Specs or price be damned.

    We're not still using 9900's because they're cheap. Nor because of their blazing specs. MANY features of the device simply fit our needs best. To that end, the single Z30 "feature" i dearly wish they'd left out of the new Q is the fixed battery. Ahrg!! BB KNOWS how to make the perfect device. They've done it. BBRY just refuses to remember. lol
    It's all good. I knew what you meant with q30.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-14 03:16 PM
  21. Qaddafi's Avatar
    The BlackBerry Bold phone is still better than the BlackBerry Q10, even with mediocre hardware and software. Having it be updated, even if slightly better, it's still a victory for me. Making it BlackBerry Q10 hardware and even better. I more or less want a bold in 2014. Adding 3gb of ram may hurt more than help when it comes to the battery, so I don't care. Also, every ******* thing in the world has a camera now. Even if BlackBerry has a bad one, which it isn't, your homie, tablet, car cam, whatever can take it for you. Not a deal breaker for me, or even relevant to be honest. I ain't a liberal arts students with a BlackBerry. I need emails, texting and sending women smileys

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-14 05:24 PM
  22. slagman5's Avatar
    But I think the z30 specs fall into that category. It was the blackberry flagship of "last year" (november?). Still pretty good stuff, especially since it'll be powering only a 3.5 inch screen now.

    Posted via CB10
    It's close. But when I say not top tier, I also don't mean last year's tech. They can have several iterations of the same generation chip. So current gen is always preferred at just slightly lower clock than the top-end version. Newer chips tend to be more efficient. But I'm somewhat OK with it having Z30 specs. Better than Q10 specs I have to say...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    08-25-14 05:26 PM
  23. slagman5's Avatar
    The BlackBerry Bold phone is still better than the BlackBerry Q10, even with mediocre hardware and software. Having it be updated, even if slightly better, it's still a victory for me. Making it BlackBerry Q10 hardware and even better. I more or less want a bold in 2014. Adding 3gb of ram may hurt more than help when it comes to the battery, so I don't care. Also, every ******* thing in the world has a camera now. Even if BlackBerry has a bad one, which it isn't, your homie, tablet, car cam, whatever can take it for you. Not a deal breaker for me, or even relevant to be honest. I ain't a liberal arts students with a BlackBerry. I need emails, texting and sending women smileys

    Posted via CB10
    RAM will pretty much do nothing in terms of battery life... Just saying...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    08-25-14 05:30 PM
  24. Xadion's Avatar
    People keep saying competitive in price, and usually as a justification for what is now considered old specs. But when ever has BlackBerry said that the classic will be an entry level phone? And history has shown us they have 3 price points, entry such as Z3 around 250 off contract, standard phone aka everything else thus far at around 500 to 600 off contract and then elite, portche and gold ones all at a lot more etc.

    The classic will be 500, 450 at the least off contract on release... mostly to get corporate monies, contract sub price will be 200 and then be 100 in 3 to 6 months with no off contract price decrease until at lease 6 mo, then we can look at the 300 to 400 range and it will be free or 50 on contract sub.



    Posted via CB10
    08-25-14 08:58 PM
  25. spork141's Avatar
    It's close. But when I say not top tier, I also don't mean last year's tech. They can have several iterations of the same generation chip. So current gen is always preferred at just slightly lower clock than the top-end version. Newer chips tend to be more efficient. But I'm somewhat OK with it having Z30 specs. Better than Q10 specs I have to say...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Yes. But bb10 has alreqdy been developed, QAED, field tested, and vetted on this exact hardware with the z30. that saves time and effort using the same chips. Even a marginal bump in internals would man you needed to do that all over again. And that's why I can see why they chose it this way.

    Posted via CB10
    08-26-14 03:40 PM
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