[The Big Picture]

What kind of BlackBerry phone do BlackBerry users want? Full touch? Nope, almost $1 billion dollar write-off. BB10 with keyboard? Nope, not close enough to BBOS7 with keyboard.

Yeap the "classic" I feel is a good move to test the market.

That and the large screen keyboard flagship device.

People may think the keyboard is old tech/dead and is not for the masses. I believe this to be somewhat true. But I also know that there are quite a few people like me who cant do with out a keyboard and there are people in the 25-32 year old market segment. Professionals and entrepreneurs.

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.2228, Z30, Z10, iP5, SGS3

[CyberMan2013]

The 'classic' may or may not woo back corporate professionals, but I fear BlackBerry is going to be an even more niche player in an already niche area here with this revamped 'classic'. Nothing I see to really get excited about. Keyboard phones are dead to the mass market, and only the die hard BlackBerry fans seem to want these dinosaur phones around still.

Careful! Z10 in action!

Well seeing that BlackBerry has lost almost all of its mass market appeal those die hard BlackBerry fans are about the only people left who will still be very interested in buying their products so they have to cater to those and mind you those are not like many of the people who are on CrackBerry and are in love with BB10 and find it the most elegant and best thing since sliced bread interface ever. I've seen first hand "regular" folks struggle to grasp some of the simplest (to me) UI concepts of the BB10 phones. Many upgraded from BBOS and they are frustrated when things don't work as they used to before or features are missing and they can't find the hidden features nor remember some of the things which some of us may find the coolest and innovative features of the OS. Options are good because BlackBerry customers are a varied bunch. I'm in the camp that used to like physical keyboards but I've since moved on from the form factor and doubt I'll ever go back regardless of its real benefits. I'm not willing to live with the compromises that are required to enable a physical keyboard to be placed on a stylish form factor phone a la the Q10. To me it's a beautiful device but the screen is too small and the aspect ratio doesn't work for me. I also don't want any super-long, strange-looking phone nor a super-wide one for that matter with a keyboard strapped on to the bottom. Plus keyboards on a smartphone just look outdated in my opinion.

Posted via CB10

[dustmalik]

I'm certainly not waiting for it. I have always preferred the all-touch phones (bigger screen estate and all), never really was the keyboard kinda guy. So Z30 here i come.

Posted via CB10 using my Gorgeous Z10

[knighty2112]

Options are good because BlackBerry customers are a varied bunch. I'm in the camp that used to like physical keyboards but I've since moved on from the form factor and doubt I'll ever go back regardless of its real benefits.

Posted via CB10

Sadly I don't think that the small amount of die hard fans will be enough to keep BlackBerry making phones in the future if the current trends continued. I became a BlackBerry user when I bought the Torch 9800 which I loved. Also, I used the physical keyboard 95% of the time in that phone over the touch screen keyboard. This was on due to the screen size, which with the release of the Z10 form factor this overcame, plus the beautiful intuitiveness of the Z10 touchscreen keyboard wooed me right over, so I can type way much faster than I ever did on my Torch and also my works Curve (ughh.....I hate that Curve). So going backwards in time is not something I will do even for a BlackBerry phone. And personally I don't see any benefits to physical typing as opposed to touchscreen typing, so apart from the niche BlackBerry user who hanker for physical keyboard phones I can foresee another debacle in the sales of these phones just as much (sadly) as the BB10 phones have failed to ignite in the consciousness of the mass market user.



Careful! Z10 in action!

[Alex Alex]

Sounds good

Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

So BlackBerry has officially announced their version of a cheap Touch Device that most likely has no place in many markets where the Z10 is already free on contract. And know they have announced the Classic, and it's going to have a track pad and tool belt?

BlackBerry is well on its way... to continuing the trend of selling fewer devices each year.

Posted via CB10

[JWWDUKE]

Might be time to leave BlackBerry. Not liking them doing the same old mistake over and over.

Sad....JC is producing a phone he wants and not what the BYOD folks want.



Posted via Verizon Z10 - OS v10.1.2.2174

I think if you look at the upcoming devices, it's pretty clear that this is not a byod converter, but just a bbos7 converter.

There is still supposed to be a bigger screened keyboard phone(Q30) with no belt and a new big screen touch phone(Z50). Not to mention the more immediate Z3 twins(3G and LTE).

As long as all this happens, it's all good in my books. No need to be packing your bags just yet.

Via CBZ10 10.2.1.2947

[sixpacker]

People say things like "The problem with the Q20 / Classic is that they have to make major modifications to BB10 for it."

Yet, these same people are too completely terrified to even TRY to describe what "major modifications" are required.

It irritates me, because ALMOST NO MODIFICATIONS WILL BE REQUIRED. ALMOST NONE. And, any that ARE made will be "invisible" to those on devices that don't have the Belt.



Ok, you too... go ahead... try to describe what this "rebuild OS" will be like.

I just wish people would stop jumping to conclusions about how much work the Belt will be to implement, when they haven't even stopped for 2 seconds to actually think about it, never mind posting it along side their "it will be so much work to get BB10 to work with the Belt" statements.... because if you do think about it, you'd probably not post those "oh lord what horrible things will happen to my beautiful BB10 OS?" lamentations, because you'd realize that most of what is needed to support the Belt is already there.

Again. It irritates me.

I am eager for the release of these belted "Classic" devices (SLIDER!) and repeatedly seeing so-called "BlackBerry Fans" saying this stuff, building anti-Belt criticism before the launch, further disparaging BlackBerry "they don't know what they're doing"... irritates.

I think people are trying to find an explanation for why the launch is all the way to November if the changes are trivial?
Maybe the delay relates to production?, because lets face it they need this device out ASAP to try and stimulate some demand for BB10 devices...

[SunshineStateFlyer]

That's great news. Although there are gonna be some more awesome devices coming out by this time of the year. So I really hope that BlackBerry can keep up and that I won't get lured away by a nice Android competitor.

Posted via CB10

[qbnkelt]

There is still supposed to be a bigger screened keyboard phone(Q30) with no belt ........

Via CBZ10 10.2.1.2947

IF that pans out to be true, that's the device I want.

As long as it doesn't look like that square render I've seen.

Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I think people are trying to find an explanation for why the launch is all the way to November if the changes are trivial?
Maybe the delay relates to production?, because lets face it they need this device out ASAP to try and stimulate some demand for BB10 devices...

Any change they reduces the number of days within the all important Christmas selling season... is not trivial.

There is a reason the many manufactures launch products in August and September. October is seen as the very latest to get a product launched and on those wish list... At least in the consumer world, which I guess this is not aimed at anyway.

As for these OTHER devices.... I think Chen is reconsidering EVERYTHING on a weekly basis.

[anon(5818411)]

Ii don't think so. I think it was more the keyboard and navigation through the OS has always been the selling point. And there is not even a close second in that venue.

you are 100% right

BBOS7 now is the easiest to use out of any OS. Everything is just black and white with it.

I can only see this phone have a small niche. If they really want this phone to kill it, they need to bring have the option to go to BBOS7 theme then for the active frames have it like PBOS2 or have a PBOS theme. (which is best of both worlds anyways)




1. Open up the damn theme API!! (imagine themes and icon packs on BB10, i loved themes back on OS5)
2. make it possible to have a virtual 'Tool Belt" for other build owners which works just as good as the old one
TrackPad Editor - BlackBerry World just add the call, menu and end key.

Chen is doing an amazing job. He does need to look at these little things and integrate them to the OS TODAY!!!

Future is touch screen so he should just repackage the Z30 just like Samsung and HTC did with their flagships (with barely any difference) just to get the name out and make it a little better like camera, battery (3000mah would really pick it up a notch from 2-3 days to steady 3 days :P), better ppi and that's it!

[Mr4aces]

BB10 already fully and proficiently supports navigation using a bluetooth/usb mouse with a cursor in case many didn't realise. Adding track pad controls wouldn't really be any challenge since it can function in exactly the same manner. They might add some stuff but it's not like they would have to start from scratch to allow track pad control. I can see the track pad being very useful in situations where the device is hooked up to a projector, monitor or TV via HDMI or Miracast and the device can be easily used as a mini desktop/laptop replacement without the need for an additional mouse / keyboard. That would be one advantage real-world advantage over the touchscreen only paradigm because using a touchscreen only to control mirrored content while not looking at the touchscreen is difficult to near impossible to do proficiently.

Posted via CB10

Excellent! Nobody wants to see your projected finger....rofl

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[bambinoitaliano]

I'm in Toronto. I see tons of BlackBerry everyday. Not the OS10 rather the OS7 kind. This classic is an attempt to shift this OS7 users to OS10. I know many here are crying about getting the latest and greatest spec on a new phone. Let's face the reality, BlackBerry is not in the position to compete in the consumer's market right now. What it's trying to do is to retain the company's current customers that are still on the old platform and get back those that have left because they do not like the OS10. Let's be real here,when Chen talk about loyal customers he meant these customers. When we talk about people who do, it's these same customers. Some of us here just want to play with the latest greatest devices here, we might buy more phones or go through more phones than regular users, we are merely a minority when all said and done. The bottom line is the numbers do not lie. BlackBerry needs to focus on those customers not a few of is here looking for the newest phone every 6 month.

[kbz1960]

I'm going to bet that the ones who want the toolbelt still will nit be happy because it doesn't have BBOS on it or it doesn't work exactly like BBOS.

[anon(5818411)]

I'm going to bet that the ones who want the toolbelt still will nit be happy because it doesn't have BBOS on it or it doesn't work exactly like BBOS.

You are right, it will still be too complicated for them

Posted via CB10

[SparkyBC]

It's a too little to late phone, released yet again late. Sure it will appeal to those stuck in the past from os7. But in no way is this phone going to turn things around.

The amount this will sell it's not going to generate positive cash flow.

When a company is well behind any product cycles it slides further and further into nothingness.

A time machine going back to cater to the old os7 users is the final death sentence. I look at it as catering to VHS users. Eventually that market all but dried up.

Much will be the fate of releasing yet another outdated flop phone. Catering to the past era..

You're not innovating going backwards like blackberry is. They're simply throwing things out there hoping something sticks!

[privateeyes]

Sadly I don't think that the small amount of die hard fans will be enough to keep BlackBerry making phones in the future if the current trends continued. I became a BlackBerry user when I bought the Torch 9800 which I loved. Also, I used the physical keyboard 95% of the time in that phone over the touch screen keyboard. This was on due to the screen size, which with the release of the Z10 form factor this overcame, plus the beautiful intuitiveness of the Z10 touchscreen keyboard wooed me right over, so I can type way much faster than I ever did on my Torch and also my works Curve (ughh.....I hate that Curve). So going backwards in time is not something I will do even for a BlackBerry phone. And personally I don't see any benefits to physical typing as opposed to touchscreen typing, so apart from the niche BlackBerry user who hanker for physical keyboard phones I can foresee another debacle in the sales of these phones just as much (sadly) as the BB10 phones have failed to ignite in the consciousness of the mass market user.



Careful! Z10 in action!

I don't really see a debacle and not just a niche BlackBerry users. If that was the case many people using other equipment would not have rushed to go buy the now infamous typo for their phones. I mean I agree with the fact of classic not sure if that is the way to go. Unless it will keep Q10 style and BB10 OS but more powerful and more to offer then I can see it working out and a market for it. Other than that just keep improving on Q10.

[JWWDUKE]

IF that pans out to be true, that's the device I want.

As long as it doesn't look like that square render I've seen.

Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.

Yes I admit, it would tempt me. Although I think I am forever a "touch" guy. I did enjoy typing on my 9900 but I love big screens more.

So I say "bring on the Z50".

Via CBZ10 10.2.1.2947

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I'm in Toronto. I see tons of BlackBerry everyday. Not the OS10 rather the OS7 kind. This classic is an attempt to shift this OS7 users to OS10. I know many here are crying about getting the latest and greatest spec on a new phone. Let's face the reality, BlackBerry is not in the position to compete in the consumer's market right now. What it's trying to do is to retain the company's current customers that are still on the old platform and get back those that have left because they do not like the OS10. Let's be real here,when Chen talk about loyal customers he meant these customers. When we talk about people who do, it's these same customers. Some of us here just want to play with the latest greatest devices here, we might buy more phones or go through more phones than regular users, we are merely a minority when all said and done. The bottom line is the numbers do not lie. BlackBerry needs to focus on those customers not a few of is here looking for the newest phone every 6 month.

Have you asked any of them why they haven't changed to BB10?????

In my area of the US, I rarely see any BlackBerry's anymore. When I do it is a BBOS device... but the reason they haven't changed is always the same - THE COMPANY hasn't allowed them to. I don't really think that a device is the reason business are not upgrading. There are two groups that I know of:

1) Company's with FREE BESX Platforms that don't what to pay for BES or another management platform... and are holding out as long as BlackBerry allows.

2) Military - lots of DOD employees in my area, those with devices are still carrying BBOS devices (most not even BBOS7). Again BlackBerry isn't forcing anyone to move on, and really right now all the military wants is an email and phone device... so a four year old BlackBerry is fine. But EVERYONE of these people carry another device, and I have yet to see any of those be BlackBerry's.

If it is solely about the device, then maybe this will sale 200 - 300 Thousand units.

[KDB84]

Hmm....I guess maybe it's the Q10 for me then. . . 7 months is a bit longer than I was expecting to wait.

[JWWDUKE]

I'm in Toronto. I see tons of BlackBerry everyday. Not the OS10 rather the OS7 kind. This classic is an attempt to shift this OS7 users to OS10. I know many here are crying about getting the latest and greatest spec on a new phone. Let's face the reality, BlackBerry is not in the position to compete in the consumer's market right now. What it's trying to do is to retain the company's current customers that are still on the old platform and get back those that have left because they do not like the OS10. Let's be real here,when Chen talk about loyal customers he meant these customers. When we talk about people who do, it's these same customers. Some of us here just want to play with the latest greatest devices here, we might buy more phones or go through more phones than regular users, we are merely a minority when all said and done. The bottom line is the numbers do not lie. BlackBerry needs to focus on those customers not a few of is here looking for the newest phone every 6 month.

I believe there are too many users like us here that want the newest and greatest and BlackBerry cannot afford to ignore/lose us. That's why I still think they will be coming out with an updated Z50 with top notch specs in early 2014. I doubt it will have class leading specs but will have very good specs.

Via CBZ10 10.2.1.2947

[Deckard79]

November is over half a year away, and a keyboard/belt phone isn't going to sell in significant quantities.

I wish Chen and BlackBerry the very best, but I still think they're on completely the wrong trajectory.

The Z3 would provide greater hope, and yet we're now looking at a release date pushed back to May and a price point higher than expected.

All very concerning.

Posted via CB10

[Arjun Sahota]

This sucks, BlackBerry should aim for a summer release, not a christmas season. No children are going to want this phone, adults who do regularly don't have an issue financially...

It's a heck of a wait too, 18 months since the release of the original Q.. guess BlackBerry loves making its customers wait.

Posted via SQN100-3

[peter0328]

This sucks, BlackBerry should aim for a summer release, not a christmas season. No children are going to want this phone, adults who do regularly don't have an issue financially...

It's a heck of a wait too, 18 months since the release of the original Q.. guess BlackBerry loves making its customers wait.

Posted via SQN100-3

I think it is unfair to start the release cycle clock for the Classic from the launch of the Q10. The Classic was clearly created by Chen after he became CEO and was asking enterprise customers what they wanted.

I have seen no evidence that the Classic was in development prior to Chen taking over.

To put this in perspective, the Foxconn deal was already in negotiations, Chen just wrapped them up and put the Z3 on the quick release road map. It uses existing hardware and does not require almost any OS modifications. Much easier to have a quick roll out of the Z3, but it can't be rushed otherwise sales will suffer if the release is not coordinated and the experience is poor.

The Classic requires a much larger OS overhaul to give the tool belt value. The biggest issue I see is making the menu button due something useful throughout the OS and apps. Also making the back button work as expected from BlackBerry OS7 (since that is where the Classic users will be coming from).

The Classic also CANNOT launch with any bugs or hardware issues. It must go through full testing and CANNOT be launched prematurely. This is a workhorse device for enterprise. They aren't going to tolerate a device with problems, they want to purchase Classics for 2+ year deployments.

Posted via CB10