View Poll Results: Do you think BlackBerry should skip NFC on the upcoming Q20 or not?

Voters
175. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, ditch it!

    24 13.71%
  • No, keep it!

    151 86.29%
04-30-14 10:39 AM
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  1. southlander's Avatar
    There is usually a secondary card reader on the cashier's machine that can be used.

    There is almost never a suitable failsafe for the NFC payments.

    If you worked in retail, you would know this.

    Cash Drawers can usually be opened with a key, so again, there is a completely workable failsafe.

    And if you're paying with a CC, unless you're getting Cash Back there is no need for a cash drawer, Lol.
    The workaround in our environment (and most any) and the one that is allowed by the card associations is to hand key the number and expiration date with the CVV code if supported. In which case part of the track 2 data is not present -- thus downgrading the transaction to become "non-qualified/card not present". Thus costing the retailer more in fees to process. But it works in a pinch.

    So with NFC I am not sure how one works around some failure if there is no manual way to enter the account data. Though perhaps there is some way. I guess.
    03-21-14 01:36 PM
  2. 21stNow's Avatar
    If the Lumia cost the same price as the iPhone I think that would have been different.

    I don't think that decision has anything to do with NFC or not. I think cost was the biggest factor there :-)
    Any higher-priced Lumia released around the same time as the 521 has NFC capability. My whole point was that I'm not willing to pay a lot of money for a phone that doesn't have NFC capability. There were at least two phones that I purchased last year that do have NFC capability and cost around the same as an iPhone 5S. I don't see your point in your comment.
    03-21-14 01:37 PM
  3. 21stNow's Avatar
    Yes, if you can convince someone to come up to you, unlock their screen, then touch their device's back to your device's back... Yep, it can go completely unnoticed... lol

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Rooted Android users have the option to have NFC active even if the phone is locked. The FUD scenario for this was that someone would randomly tap women's purses or men's pockets in order to get data from the victims' phones.

    I used to take this risk with one of my Android phones. I figured that there would be too few people trying this for me to worry about this. The convenience of tapping a tag to turn off my ringer without having to wake my phone up outweighed any fear that I had.
    03-21-14 01:55 PM
  4. slagman5's Avatar
    Rooted Android users have the option to have NFC active even if the phone is locked. The FUD scenario for this was that someone would randomly tap women's purses or men's pockets in order to get data from the victims' phones.

    I used to take this risk with one of my Android phones. I figured that there would be too few people trying this for me to worry about this. The convenience of tapping a tag to turn off my ringer without having to wake my phone up outweighed any fear that I had.
    So basically, the user is the one that has to open him/herself to the risk in the first place. Which means someone like myself who has it so nfc is only active when the screen is unlocked AND active have absolutely nothing to worry about and someone like you could continue to use nfc safely if you simply keep it that way too? Alrighty, so, basically I could just ignore that so-called risk all-together, awesome.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    03-21-14 02:57 PM
  5. 21stNow's Avatar
    So basically, the user is the one that has to open him/herself to the risk in the first place. Which means someone like myself who has it so nfc is only active when the screen is unlocked AND active have absolutely nothing to worry about and someone like you could continue to use nfc safely if you simply keep it that way too? Alrighty, so, basically I could just ignore that so-called risk all-together, awesome.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    It depends on how you use your phone. If you walk down the street and use your phone while walking, someone could theoretically run up to you, tap the back of your phone and run off. I think that this scenario would yield too few results right now to be attractive to most data thieves, at least in the US. If you don't use your phone a lot while walking, this tiny risk pretty much vanishes for you.
    03-21-14 03:58 PM
  6. rambo47's Avatar
    Better to have it and just turn it off if you don't use it than not have it at all. That just sounds like common sense to me. NFC is not ready for broad acceptance yet, but I'd personally like to try new apps as they come out for it, or at least have the option to do so.
    CDM76 likes this.
    03-21-14 04:29 PM
  7. spacemanspork's Avatar
    IMO, NFC is only usable between Samsung phones because of S Beam. It makes the Wi-Fi Direct pairing trivial for large/fast content transfers.

    For every other use case it is awkward, hamstrung, etc.
    I don't know. I've transferred photos between my Z10 and people's current gen smart phones thru NFC. Though admittedly it was mostly just for fun cuz we could do it. Regrettably this doesn't work with last gen smart phones. (Meaning it works with the SGS4, but not the SGS3. Works with the HTC One, not the HTC One X). Admittedly there's not that much of a use for it, but I like having it on my phone. There's so much potential for the technology even if it's not being used.

    As for the article itself, it's from BGR. I used to read BGR until I realized their Apple bias was absurd. Now I know everyone likes accusing every site of Apple bias and I find that stupid because some people feel like if you like any Apple product you must be in Apple's pocket. But for BGR I didn't really think much of the cries of bias until I reached an opinion piece written by the chief editor of BGR.

    In that he raved about how great Apple's iOS update was and how it's so great it demolishes Android. What was so great about it? He listed a ton of reasons. Almost all of them existed on Android already. That's right. The head of BGR said "because Apple now finally has features Android already has, Apple wins! Android loses! GOOOO APPLE!". Now if he had said something like "the things Apple was missing which put it behind Android have now been added and combined with Apple's attention to detail, I feel this now pushes Apple ahead of Android" I would've shrugged and said "fair enough." But it was literally more like the prior. "APPLE NOW DOES STUFF ANDROID HAS ALWAYS DONE! APPLE WINS! ANDROID IS A BIG LOSER!" :-/ Yeah. I deleted them from my reading list and haven't missed them.
    03-21-14 04:56 PM
  8. jonno_atamaniuk's Avatar
    So you actually won't get the Q20 if it doesn't have NFC?
    Well to be truthful, I will be skipping the Q20 altogether for two reasons. One, I have a Z30 and absolutely love it, and two, I have grown to prefer the touch screen keyboard as long as it is BlackBerry's exact keyboard.

    What I did say was I would be more inclined to an Android. Not I would never purchase something sans NFC, but that my preferences now include it. I would prefer to have a huge app / accessory ecosystem, but my need for a best in class messaging system and battery life of a champ trumped that. referencing Crackberry Kevin's hierarchy of needs in a smartphone there.

    Posted by my Z30 via CB10
    Joe Clean likes this.
    03-21-14 05:11 PM
  9. Alain_A's Avatar
    Yes, if you can convince someone to come up to you, unlock their screen, then touch their device's back to your device's back... Yep, it can go completely unnoticed... lol

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    no, the show demonstrated that someone sitting, reading paper or whatever then someone else came from behind to get close enough and snatch the info of the other one using NFC special app.....that is as long as the NFC of the first one was on....I believe.....would have to re-watch the show....
    03-21-14 05:34 PM
  10. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    For the easy sharing feature alone, please leave us NFC !
    I can't count the number of files, Vcards and files I've been transferring from my BB10 to friends' .
    Absolute must on a high end BlackBerry device.
    On the cost side, are we debating about +/- $10 overcost as a price mark ? C'mon, these are $500+ devices !
    Joe Clean likes this.
    03-21-14 06:30 PM
  11. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    no, the show demonstrated that someone sitting, reading paper or whatever then someone else came from behind to get close enough and snatch the info of the other one using NFC special app.....that is as long as the NFC of the first one was on....I believe.....would have to re-watch the show....
    You are referring to credit cards, I believe; not BB10 devices. Interesting to notice that our devices are - once again - safer than many other objects ...
    03-21-14 06:33 PM
  12. BigAl_BB9900's Avatar
    Lol. I remember debating someone on here years back when the Bold 99xx phones were coming. They were saying that there would be payment terminals all over the place that could utilize NFC. I work (in part) installing point of sale systems and NFC is NOT something that is ever added. Significant extra cost for not enough extra benefit.

    As I posted I have other uses, but the whole payment terminal thing is not about to take off -- not in the US.
    NFC payment is getting pretty big in the UK and most of the major credit card companies now give you a 'Contact-less Wave' credit card as standard. All the small businesses I know who have recently got a new card reader, have found that NFC payments functionality is built into the devices (though there is usually a 'ceiling limit' of 30 or 50 for purchases).

    NFC Payment tech is growing fast in Germany, Italy and Austria too (though the most implementations I have seen for contactless payment are actually in Istanbul, Turkey).

    NFC is also used as a standard in many European countries for things like transport passes (eg the Oyster Card for the London Transport network)
    Last edited by BigAl_BB9900; 03-21-14 at 09:05 PM.
    Superfly_FR and Joe Clean like this.
    03-21-14 07:40 PM
  13. gebco's Avatar
    I love NFC! It is so convenient to transfer files between phones. In addition, here in Canada, more and more merchant terminals have NFC.
    03-21-14 09:18 PM
  14. arlene_t's Avatar
    I have not found a use of my NFC yet.

    via Q10
    03-21-14 10:42 PM
  15. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    THANK YOU.

    There is so much misunderstanding about iBeacon (which is only an implementation of the standard protocol known as BT LE) and anything Apple/not BB going on here it's terrifying.

    NFC has been around a very long time without gaining traction in the US. I was told part of it was licensing fees on hardware that are expiring (don't know if true). The other thing is that the big credit card companies seem to be banding together to support it and fight off Google and Google Wallet. Their support is critical to getting NFC off the ground.

    FWIW I never use Paypass. It was faster FOR ME to just swipe and go on to getting ready to pump gas or go into my purse vs hold and wait for it to be approved before doing other stuff. Consequently I developed a habit of not using it that I see no reason to break.
    You welcome sir :P
    03-21-14 11:58 PM
  16. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    tbh I don't even get why this is a poll. There is no question why their shouldn't be NFC. Sure a lot of people don't use it and don't care about the feature, but others it's a deal breaker. More and more banks are getting on board with NFC payments every year. In Canada almost every cashier has had Paypass for years. The amount of people I see take their phone out for Tim Hortons is crazy.
    Apple can afford to make it late to the game and call ti something stupid like iNFC as a marketing gimmick just like Airdrop (wifi-direct) and iBeacon (BT LE).

    Leave it in the phones, more features in the phones. The larger variety of developer audience + Larger number of NFC lovers = better Blackberry ecosystem which is currently dying if we all haven't noticed. Every little feature on the phone will help out the Blackberry economy even if it's indirectly.
    03-22-14 12:03 AM
  17. slagman5's Avatar
    It depends on how you use your phone. If you walk down the street and use your phone while walking, someone could theoretically run up to you, tap the back of your phone and run off. I think that this scenario would yield too few results right now to be attractive to most data thieves, at least in the US. If you don't use your phone a lot while walking, this tiny risk pretty much vanishes for you.
    Yah, and someone can always run up to you and just snatch your phone out of your hand while you're using it, accessing everything on it... Just as easily as someone running up and bumping into you to get the data off the smart chips on your credits cards in your wallet. Seriously, are we going to grasp at every straw to try to find that one perfect planet aligns situations? You can make those arguments about anything...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-22-14 12:30 AM
  18. slagman5's Avatar
    no, the show demonstrated that someone sitting, reading paper or whatever then someone else came from behind to get close enough and snatch the info of the other one using NFC special app.....that is as long as the NFC of the first one was on....I believe.....would have to re-watch the show....
    Um, exactly. On BB, the NFC is *OFF* until the screen is active. Maybe it's different for Android, but they never cared about security as much as BB...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    03-22-14 12:34 AM
  19. CDM76's Avatar
    What if by removing the 'less-used' technologies, like the NFC and WiFi 802.11b, means lowering the handset costs thus making the Q20's price tag cheaper?
    OK you may not use them but I use nfc to pay for my morning coffee. And sometimes lunch. And 802.11b I use daily for my wifi.

    Just because you don't use them don't assume others don't. I just want more nfc point abilities!

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-14 12:37 AM
  20. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Looks like some places are trying to work around NFC:

    Wendy's rolls out mobile payment in US restaurants - SFGate
    03-22-14 01:14 AM
  21. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I have used NFC to share a URL from my Z30 to a Nexus 5 and vice versa. You don't even have to do anything on the receiving device: go to your browser and click share by NFC on your NFC enabled device, hold it up to another device and the other device will open the browser automatically... you don't have to go into the browser and choose "receive URL'... this makes sharing links between two people who are near one another a lot easier than tweeting it or emailing it.

    Now, any apps could do this between devices from different manufacturers if the software exists on both platforms.

    Developers have to get wise and creative and build better NFC support into their apps... so... if Apple is left behind even more as Android adoption continues to eat their lunch, maybe they'll learn sooner or later that interoperability with other platforms is good for them and the industry as a whole.. or I hope Apple can convince Best Buy to deploy whatever alternative they want to use.
    Beaming links is a waste of time. Just text it or send an IM. Requires much less setup and is way more convenient. Beaming Files of considerable size is more important than light data like that, and as long as OEMs aren't either using NFC to Negotiate Wi-Fi Direct transfers (as Samsung is doing) OR using BT +HS in their devices it doesn't matter. It is simply too slow to be usable for any Files or Batches of Files of Significant Size.

    BT Range is much less than Wi-Fi Direct. BT EDR is Too Damn Slow (+HS is 10x faster). BT is also Flakey (Obstructions *really* interfere with the signal, those of you with BT Headsets should know).

    These phones have all these protocols. Use them.

    Samsung had the BT issue solved since the first Galaxy S phone. They implemented the BT 3.0 +HS Optional Spec, which allowed transfers between their devices over BT to go 10x faster than other OEM's devices. They Solved the Android Beam fail by doing S Beam, which IMO was worth "going proprietary for" as Wi-Fi Direct otherwise requires too much setup for the average consumer to bother using and BT still has its same issues unless you have +HS in the device (which I think they stopped using after the GS2)..

    Other OEMs need to copy that.
    03-22-14 01:21 AM
  22. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    The workaround in our environment (and most any) and the one that is allowed by the card associations is to hand key the number and expiration date with the CVV code if supported. In which case part of the track 2 data is not present -- thus downgrading the transaction to become "non-qualified/card not present". Thus costing the retailer more in fees to process. But it works in a pinch.

    So with NFC I am not sure how one works around some failure if there is no manual way to enter the account data. Though perhaps there is some way. I guess.
    Most stores I've been in have a second card scanner on the computer that the cashier uses. If the card reader fails to read the card, they can take it and use that scanner (sometimes built into their keyboard) and see if it works. If that doesn't work, then they can hand key the code.

    With NFC there is no work-around. You either need to whip the card/ID out, or whip out the cash.
    03-22-14 01:30 AM
  23. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    OK you may not use them but I use nfc to pay for my morning coffee. And sometimes lunch. And 802.11b I use daily for my wifi.

    Just because you don't use them don't assume others don't. I just want more nfc point abilities!

    Posted via CB10
    I doubt you are using 802.11b for your Wi-Fi. Most routers these days are b/g/n and really the place/person would have to be using equipment manufactured around the 1999-2002 equipment to not give their users access to a Wi-Fi 'g' signal. That, or be strictly limiting their router to only broadcast that type of Wi-Fi, which makes no sense since Wi-Fi 'b' has a slower theoretical max transfer rate than a ton of consumer broadband internet connections (DSL even... never mind Cable or Fiber).

    Really, a bit less exaggeration would be nice.

    Maybe in some poor countries people still use this type of very old equipment that they have likely gotten out of a trash bin or imported on the cheap for lack of the ability to get anything better. But any country that is rolling out NFC terminals clearly would not qualify, nor would anyone who's wasting money on "morning coffee" seeing how cheap a decent modern wireless router is...
    Joe Clean likes this.
    03-22-14 01:35 AM
  24. Joe Clean's Avatar
    OK you may not use them but I use nfc to pay for my morning coffee. And sometimes lunch. And 802.11b I use daily for my wifi.
    Just because you don't use them don't assume others don't. I just want more nfc point abilities!
    Good for you, that the NFC is being adopted in real use at your place. Unfortunately that's not the case at my place here (and some others who have also posted at this thread).

    I don't assume, dear friend. I throw a question to the CrackBerry nation, where I trust the community here is open minded and with less prejudice on questions such as this one.* The question is very simple: NFC hasn't exactly taken off until now, except in the European countries the adoption rate is still low, especially at the USA and my country (and also at some other places), do you think BlackBerry should skip on remove** the technology or not?

    Yes, I use BGR's news (about Apple skipping the NFC) at the initial post, but I never intended to say something like: "Apple doesn't adopt NFC thus the technology is surely dying," or "Apple has picked the right move," or "BlackBerry should copy every Apple moves," or worse "Apple is always right," etc. For me, it's just an intriguing news from once a trusted blog that often defend BlackBerry and had a good record of leaking BlackBerry rumors.

    I hope this will clear some of the heavy air that's been lingering around this thread since it's started. And I must say, the opinions surrounding NFC in the BlackBerry is fascinating. Hopefully John Chen listens to everyone's opinions here on the matter.

    * Note: I think I'm beginning to understand on the sentiments of some members that think I'm siding with Apple / pro-Apple on this NFC topic, I'm not. No wonder some of the posts feel like somewhat mocks those who think NFC is not exactly useful (for their personal usage). Just to clear this up one more time: I like my BlackBerry, and I'm rooting for the belaguered company to survive and to keep churning out great phones for all of us.

    ** Note: as pointed out by Slagman5, I should have used "remove" instead of "skip", thanks Slagman5.
    Last edited by Joe Clean; 03-23-14 at 05:00 AM. Reason: yes, another grammar correction
    03-22-14 02:29 AM
  25. endevour's Avatar
    They're so right! It's looking better every day!

    For all the competitors! I like!

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-14 02:46 AM
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