[Tre Lawrence]

I disagree, I can get my phone out of its holster in 1/5th the time it would take me to take my wallet out and then try to pick the right credit card out of it with my fingertips...

Just ask anyone living in a place where NFC payments is widespread and ask them how convenient it is.

The potential flexibility that NFC provides is beyond question. As noted, it is better to have than not.

But one way to look at it, would it be the deciding factor in a purchase decision? Would anyone here switch platforms if a BB10 flagship doesn't have it?

[southlander]

I disagree, I can get my phone out of its holster in 1/5th the time it would take me to take my wallet out and then try to pick the right credit card out of it with my fingertips...

Just ask anyone living in a place where NFC payments is widespread and ask them how convenient it is.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

True but there's plenty of time waiting in line to get a card ready and no rule that says one has to wait until they get to the cashier to do so. Speaking of that what about those annoying folks that wait to actually get to the cashier before they fill out a personal check. Grrr.

And I agree with you in that I'd personally LIKE to use NFC to pay. My point was that the decision makers do not agree here in the US. I install these systems and if there was something significant to be gained in the eyes of the card associations, banks, payment processors, etc. they'd push it and make it happen. If they've fought Chip and PIN for so long due to cost then I suppose they'd resist NFC based on the same arguments.

If it came at no extra cost to the merchant as a standard feature of all the systems then it would probably do better. All NFC does is get the data into the terminal. The software support should be a breeze. Well as far as the card data goes.

[slagman5]

True but there's plenty of time waiting in line to get a card ready and no rule that says one has to wait until they get to the cashier to do so. Speaking of that what about those annoying folks that wait to actually get to the cashier before they fill out a personal check. Grrr.

And I agree with you in that I'd personally LIKE to use NFC to pay. My point was that the decision makers do not agree here in the US. I install these systems and if there was something significant to be gained in the eyes of the card associations, banks, payment processors, etc. they'd push it and make it happen. If they've fought Chip and PIN for so long due to cost then I suppose they'd resist NFC based on the same arguments.

If it came at no extra cost to the merchant as a standard feature of all the systems then it would probably do better. All NFC does is get the data into the terminal. The software support should be a breeze. Well as far as the card data goes.

A lot of times while waiting in line unless it's a grocery store with a moving belt, I'm holding the merchandise with my hands. I only put it down when I get to the counter so I can get my wallet.

No need to find all of these ifs, ands, or buts to find a specific situation where NFC might not be more efficient. It just is. If you disagree, great, don't use it. But it's definitely more convenient than credit cards for my uses and for a lot of people who use it every day and love it.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

The potential flexibility that NFC provides is beyond question. As noted, it is better to have than not.

But one way to look at it, would it be the deciding factor in a purchase decision? Would anyone here switch platforms if a BB10 flagship doesn't have it?

Why do I care what other people do? I'm saying I want future devices to have it because *I* would like to use it. Not to sound selfish, but that's really all I care about. But a lot of other people also use it. Right now the status quo is having it. The question is not whether having it will benefit, but whether removing it will benefit. Changing the status quo has the burden of proof...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

Why do I care what other people do? I'm saying I want future devices to have it because *I* would like to use it. Not to sound selfish, but that's really all I care about. But a lot of other people also use it. Right now the status quo is having it. The question is not whether having it will benefit, but whether removing it will benefit. Changing the status quo has the burden of proof...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

I don't disagree. I wave the things I want for my own purposes.

But I think it's a fair question: would folks change platforms for just NFC? It kind of gives an unofficial gauge of its importance.

To be clear, removing tangible features makes no sense IMHO, but I doubt too many would make purchasing decisions based on the availability of NFC alone at this point.

[ray689]

No point in removing features because Apple chooses to whether you use them or not.

[Tre Lawrence]

No point in removing features because Apple chooses too whether you use them or not.

I agree, unless it significantly increases the cost of production. I haven't seen anything that says it does.

[cjcampbell]

2 points....

1) Being in Canada, almost every new-ish POS terminal has the tap to pay option and all recently issued credit cards and debit cards support this. I see it being a very handy and fast way of taking care of small purchases.

2) Why is this discussion in the Q20 forum and not a more widely read one?

[Joe Clean]

Temporarily closed for review.

Reopened after cleanup.

Please feel free to discuss, debate, even disagree. However, do so in a civil manner!

What happened? Did someone say something rude / inappropriate?
(Been busy last night, when I opened this thread this morning I was surprised to see the warning sign)

[slagman5]

I don't disagree. I wave the things I want for my own purposes.

But I think it's a fair question: would folks change platforms for just NFC? It kind of gives an unofficial gauge of its importance.

To be clear, removing tangible features makes no sense IMHO, but I doubt too many would make purchasing decisions based on the availability of NFC alone at this point.

Again, having NFC is the status quo, you shouldn't be asking if having NFC will make people change but whether REMOVING NFC will get people to change since that is the change from status quo. The CHANGE has the burden of needing to be proven worth doing, not the other way around. How about how many people BB might lose if they no longer offer it? I know I like it even without nfc payments. I'd be very disappointed if it was removed and Android will look more and more appetizing...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

I agree, unless it significantly increases the cost of production. I haven't seen anything that says it does.

Yah, I doubt a little strip of copper costs an arm and a leg...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Joe Clean]

I am not sure but I'd expect all this stuff is being built into the chipsets regardless of whether one chooses to use it. For sure 802.11b is (obviously).

I agree, unless it significantly increases the cost of production. I haven't seen anything that says it does.

This is what I'm really concern about, will it increase the costs of making the Q20 (significantly)? Putting NFC inside means paying patent royalty, and paying the circuit needed (at the back of the battery door). BlackBerry isn't exactly in good shape nowadays, the company need every penny it can save, that includes saving every penny it can when building the Q20. The future of the company is at stake here.

I don't have anything against NFC, even though I don't use it much, but I'm very much concern about BlackBerry.

[jonno_atamaniuk]

I think I am going to have to side with the people saying that NFC is more efficient for certain things and would most definitely be a bad idea to remove.

There are a couple things to think about with NFC. The biggest thing we all think of would be NFC payments. I will be honest, my carrier doesn't support my bank of choice for NFC payments, nor do they support BlackBerry devices for NFC payments just yet, but I am more than certain that it will be coming and soon. But let's not forget that one thing that Android devices like to tout is Android beam (on Samsung devices it would be S-Beam). This "Beam" function is simply using NFC to instantly share information, be it a photograph, a song, a link, contact information, or some other shareable data. I used this a while ago with a friend to beam them a song that I wanted to get their opinion on. Was it handy? Oh goodness yes, I didn't have to spend time trying to pair their nexus 4 with my Z30, nor did I have to spend time uploading the file to a cloud service (or sending via email) or downloading it on their phone. Neither of us used our data plans in the process. It was convenient!

A feature I would love to use more for NFC would be using it to turn on and off my Wi-Fi on my phone when I come home and when I leave. Something I would REALLY like to try to figure out is putting together an NFC lock system. I have there was / is a forum member or two who put together a lock for their home that worked with the NFC on their device.

Would I jump ship from BlackBerry if they removed NFC function? Well if they removed it entirely, I may be more inclined back to the platform of Android, something I really don't want to do personally as BlackBerry does make things more efficient for me. So I would prefer they keep it.

Posted by my Z30 via CB10

[Joe Clean]

True but there's plenty of time waiting in line to get a card ready and no rule that says one has to wait until they get to the cashier to do so. Speaking of that what about those annoying folks that wait to actually get to the cashier before they fill out a personal check. Grrr.

If it came at no extra cost to the merchant as a standard feature of all the systems then it would probably do better. All NFC does is get the data into the terminal. The software support should be a breeze. Well as far as the card data goes.

Hear, hear. I also handle POS system in retail shops, so I understand what you're saying. Not all of the NFC implementations are a breeze, sometimes quirks happened like all of a sudden the NFC terminal was down or frozen, or it took too long to send the data to the cashier machines, etc. Or in my case, there was once a time when I was about to try using my Bold 9900 to pay with NFC, all of a sudden it rebooted.

[Joe Clean]

2) Why is this discussion in the Q20 forum and not a more widely read one?

Because we're currently talking NFC in the upcoming Q20.

[Joe Clean]

Would I jump ship from BlackBerry if they removed NFC function? Well if they removed it entirely, I may be more inclined back to the platform of Android, something I really don't want to do personally as BlackBerry does make things more efficient for me. So I would prefer they keep it.

So you actually won't get the Q20 if it doesn't have NFC?

[slagman5]

Hear, hear. I also handle POS system in retail shops, so I understand what you're saying. Not all of the NFC implementations are a breeze, sometimes quirks happened like all of a sudden the NFC terminal was down or frozen, or it took too long to send the data to the cashier machines, etc. Or in my case, there was once a time when I was about to try using my Bold 9900 to pay with NFC, all of a sudden it rebooted.

And sometimes the card readers don't work. I know because I used to work in retail. So we should just get rid of those too and accept cash only. But hopefully the cash drawers don't ever act weird or we'll just have to start trading things for goats and grain...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[jpvj]

Two days ago the Danish techsite "Version2" stated the opposite due to the face that the banks have spend a lot of ressources on deploying NFC enabled terminals. In Denmark approx 50% of all terminals are already NFC capable and in general NFC is to be the standard in Europe.

The title says (translated): "Payment expert: Apple will be forced to accept NFC"

Source: Betalingseksperter: Apple bliver tvunget til at bide til NFC-bollen | Version2
(Translate with Google).

[Joe Clean]

Two days ago the Danish techsite "Version2" stated the opposite due to the face that the banks have spend a lot of ressources on deploying NFC enabled terminals. In Denmark approx 50% of all terminals are already NFC capable and in general NFC is to be the standard in Europe.
The title says (translated): "Payment expert: Apple will be forced to accept NFC"

Wow, shocking.
If indeed Europe is adopting NFC as standard, it's going to boost NFC to the rest of the world.

[darkhawk]

Hello
blackberry need to keep the NFC
but they should give a tag or 2 with every device to encourage the use for fun tags around the house
they need to get more stores and advertisers onboard, or even advertise with it them selves!
they also need to add some improvements to the smart tags app, (generate your own qr tags, more triggers like location on off)
it need more and better marketing and that should be in part form berry them selves

[thurask]

BGR supports Apple's use of proprietary tech instead of something that the rest of the industry standardized for a while now...

I wonder if their offices are full of USB to Firewire converters.

Posted via CB10

[RyanGermann]

First of all: if it's an opinion of BGR, it's probably wrong: doing the opposite is a safe bet. They a-holes.

Secondly, just because a good idea hasn't caught on yet doesn't mean it's not a good idea. I use NFC for mobile payments and while sometimes I feel like I'm a betatester, that's how things will improve. First of all I think NFC needs to be a single central service on a device (with all my credit cards stored) and when I go to a store to pay, I just tap my phone and if it's above a certain amount, I have to enter a PIN, but otherwise tap and go.

Third, even the article states that the problem is with the competing standards, not the technology itself... so what would Apple's alternative be? A totally proprietary iBeacon "Apple" solution that pays lip service to open standards and interoperability and funnels all the "slightly lower" service fees directly into Apple's overflowing vaults. This is Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD all over again, but with a lot more at stake. The "article" fails to mention that Apple is proposing iBeacon as some kind of competitor to NFC, so leaving the fact that Apple wants to try to own the mobile payment space as a possible rationale of why Apple isn't playing in the NFC sandbox is a little lightweight in terms of "analysis"... but it's BGR, I'm not suggesting it should be otherwise, but context matters.

The banks need to get it together and lower the per-transaction fees to mere pennies per transaction to get this off the ground, not be gouging. These transactions cost only nonocents to process so if the banks are 'playing it safe' on covering their butts re: possible security issues, well, that's their own fault, not the technology. The US doesn't use PINs on credit cards yet, but they're introducing this broadly soon, and the cards themselves have the chips in them so there's an argument against using ANY mobile device "tap and go" payment service (until the Banks figure out "hey, we can actually charge people for the cards! "If you want a physical card instead of using your smartphone, there is a $7 charge...". Oh, I can see it now... charging for the actual chip-enabled card will be a thing.

I should be able to set a default card, but the NFC station should be able to identify itself as being a particular "vendor" so when I tap my NFC at Tim Hortons it knows that it is Tim Hortons and uses my TIM card, and if I'm on a Presto-enabled transit vehicle it knows its a transit service and would use my Presto card information.

It's not as good as it can be yet, but that doesn't mean the chipset and antenna should be left out of future devices.

Besides, NFC is low power (less than Bluetooth) and the cost of the components is just a few dollars per device, so I don't see what taking it out of designs going forward would achieve.

So, as usual, BGR reports some "isn't Apple smart" nonsense and totally misses the nuances and oversimplifies... but people clicked. BGR 1, intelligent discourse 0.

[wincyUt]

The sample polling above clearly indicates that a majority wants the NFC to stay on BB phones. Really, Apple doesn't rule the world.

[Berry-cracked-up]

If Apple had NFC and Blackberry didn't, I bet the conversation would be "Why is blackberry behind in technology again?", but instead Blackberry has the technology, and Apple doesn't, so that means NFC is useless? Since when does apple determine what is and what isn't useful. Apple is all about battery life. They don't do certain things, just to save battery life, including not adding NFC. I think NFC is awesome. I transfer contacts, video, pictures to my wife Q10 or my Dad's Z10. It works awesome and I love it. Not to mention that's how I buy a Tim Horton's coffee in the morning....using my Timmy Me app and NFC. Why would you take a way something, just because the competition doesn't use it? Blackberry should stick with NFC.

[WArcher]

One of BGR's newest post: "Apple�s decision to ignore NFC is looking better every day" (source: GigaOM), what do you think?

Should BlackBerry follow Apple's decision to skip NFC on the upcoming Q20? Or do you use NFC (with your BlackBerry) and think the company should keep supporting the technology? If so, what do you use the NFC for?

I for one, only use the NFC (on my Bold 9900) for transferring musics and files with other compatible BlackBerry phones, there was once mobile payment offering (using NFC) from Telkomsel (one of the biggest wireless companies in Indonesia) but like in the US over there, it didn't really take off and I couldn't find it anywhere now. Personally, I think BlackBerry shouldn't include NFC in the Q20, it got little of use and only add more costs to the device, which users will be paying for.

NFC is becoming more popular especially with Payment systems; I can use a Q10 or Z10 in Canada as a VISA card (with CIBC) and two other banks are also now in Beta tests for this. Tim Hortons (aka Timmys) also has a payment app as does Starbucks.

Arguing that "because iPhone doesn't do it nobody should" is goofy. Only iPhone users need a special (expensive) connector to charge and sync. No BlackBerry or Android device that I know of does. No Apple device supports expandable memory. Most Android and all BlackBerry's do.

Apple will promote their "Beacons" technology instead of NFC because it's their invention. Android and BlackBerry will lead the charge on NFC because it's simple, efficient, and cheap.