09-20-14 02:52 PM
38 12
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  1. nikesu's Avatar
    I was so happy & excited when Mr Chen announced the return of tool-belt. But slowing I'm losing my interest in Classic. The main reason is non-removable battery. All I wanted from BB is....Keyboard with shortcuts + ToolBelt + at least 3000 mah removable battery. Am I asking too much??

    Looking at leaks & rumors it is almost sure that BB classic will have non-removable battery with 2 yrs old specs. I do not understand why BB wanna go with non-removable battery if their main target is old legacy Bold users like me. I also do not understand why BB Passport gets high specs & treated as a flagship device over classic.

    PS: Bold 9900 was almost a perfect device then but RIM screwed it up by putting smaller battery & also omitting auto focus feature. Now they are doing the same thing with Classic.
    09-16-14 09:42 AM
  2. FunktasticLucky's Avatar
    If it has a big enough battery I don't think it is an issue. My Z30 makes it easily through the day. I was on it non stop for 13.5 hours and still finished the day with 20 percent. I was at cedar point too so it was direct sunlight. The specs are a totally different story. But seeing the target demographic it makes sense. The 9900 crowd is still getting a major major upgrade and the phone will probably cost less than 350 bux. You have no reason not to upgrade your bold.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-14 09:48 AM
  3. spork141's Avatar
    I was so happy & excited when Mr Chen announced the return of tool-belt. But slowing I'm losing my interest in Classic. The main reason is non-removable battery. All I wanted from BB is....Keyboard with shortcuts + ToolBelt + at least 3000 mah removable battery. Am I asking too much??

    Looking at leaks & rumors it is almost sure that BB classic will have non-removable battery with 2 yrs old specs. I do not understand why BB wanna go with non-removable battery if their main target is old legacy Bold users like me. I also do not understand why BB Passport gets high specs & treated as a flagship device over classic.

    PS: Bold 9900 was almost a perfect device then but RIM screwed it up by putting smaller battery & also omitting auto focus feature. Now they are doing the same thing with Classic.
    If the target users are bold users then I would say BlackBerry has done an excellent job with the classic. The bumps in processing power and ram should be enough alone for a 9900 user to. witch

    Plus non removable battery means no more battery pulls! (come on laugh I know you wanna)

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-14 10:55 AM
  4. spork141's Avatar
    Non-removable battery isn't a problem, it's one solution. There's a lot of comments on these forums about removable or non-removable. No doubt because the problem is battery life, and for heavy, heavy power users always has been an issue.

    Let's identify the problem: battery life

    Now let's all focus on what the various solutions are: bigger battery, better power management in the OS, removeable battery, even imagine if solar charging was possible.

    None of us know what battery life will look like, we don't even have 100% confirmation what final battery capacity will be. But I think we can all agree, rather than focus on the battery being non-removable or not, we all want good battery life. So put another way, this phone needs 12-14hours of battery life for heavy usage (intensive email, messaging, internet and phone calls) for me to not care about a removable battery.

    I'm also in the camp that says if the phone's power management and battery capacity are so bad I need a removable battery, I'll just go with another brand.
    Agreed. Well said. I am hopeful the battery life will be great. There was some stuff on BlackBerry channels saying battery life for the classic was going strong after 5 days of standby and over 24 hours of heavy use. Plus knowing how great my z30 is and the classic has half the screen.

    I'm just hopeful. That's all.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-14 01:48 PM
  5. Ernest101's Avatar
    Non-removable battery isn't a problem, it's one solution. There's a lot of comments on these forums about removable or non-removable. No doubt because the problem is battery life, and for heavy, heavy power users always has been an issue.

    Let's identify the problem: battery life

    Now let's all focus on what the various solutions are: bigger battery, better power management in the OS, removeable battery, even imagine if solar charging was possible.

    None of us know what battery life will look like, we don't even have 100% confirmation what final battery capacity will be. But I think we can all agree, rather than focus on the battery being non-removable or not, we all want good battery life. So put another way, this phone needs 12-14hours of battery life for heavy usage (intensive email, messaging, internet and phone calls) for me to not care about a removable battery.

    I'm also in the camp that says if the phone's power management and battery capacity are so bad I need a removable battery, I'll just go with another brand.
    Spot on mate, agreed on all points save for the another brand bit . If the battery life is excellent to the point it can last a whole day of heavy use (which the Q10 sadly doesn't for me), the battery being removable is redundant.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-14 06:18 PM
  6. matt4pack's Avatar
    The only times I've actually seen the use of the removable battery was always just to reset the phone and not to actually use a spare battery.

    I'm sure a few do use spares but that didn't seem like the main purpose for it in bbos days.

    Posted via CB10
    neoberry99 likes this.
    09-16-14 06:59 PM
  7. dale-c's Avatar
    I would glad trade a removable battery for a battery that was not removable but got me double life.

    That said, I don't need swappable batteries, but it does need to be replaceable so when the capacity starts to fade, I can replace it.

    Posted via CB10
    robitaille93 likes this.
    09-16-14 08:23 PM
  8. nikesu's Avatar
    I agree with you all that we should not be worried if Classic would have a stellar battery life. But again... the ability to change battery in few seconds is much more convenient, simpler and preferable esp for ppl who are always on the go. If you do regular 9-5 jobs, then it shouldn't be problem at all with non-removable battery.

    I often travel on train and my normal journey time is anywhere between 10-14 hrs. Battery life has been always a problem for me. So, lets say you have 2 spare batteries & a Device, you don't need to worry about for 1 week long business/leisure trip :-)
    Last edited by nikesu; 09-16-14 at 08:59 PM.
    dmlis likes this.
    09-16-14 08:48 PM
  9. Jtaylor1986's Avatar
    There is unfortunately a trade off with either scenario, removable battery is thicker more expensive and smaller capacity. There is only a very small percentage of users that truly need a removable battery as long as there is decent battery life out of the box and not many options other than Samsung to switch to.
    09-16-14 09:14 PM
  10. Katika99's Avatar
    When you are sleeping you can charge the device.

    And the Z30 already support 12 or 14h of heavy use. If the device have enough battery life, you will not have the need to have a spare battery on you.

    Posted via my Q10
    09-16-14 09:14 PM
  11. bobshine's Avatar
    I never ever had a phone that outlasted since the Motorola Startac... which I purchased their large capacity battery.

    But with the Z30... I never would had thought that I would finished every single day, before going to bed with more than 20%. And I only sleep 5-6 hours per night.

    I think non removable is the way to go... allows better designs and also removes a lot of contraints in battery size and shape.

    Also, for legacy BlackBerry users, the removable battery gives an bad image of "battery pull". I read the forum every day and I still see people talking about pulling your battery! This has to change.

    For those that needs extra juice, there are solutions... look at Anker powerbanks.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-14 09:30 PM
  12. Gatmyer's Avatar
    When you are sleeping you can charge the device.

    And the Z30 already support 12 or 14h of heavy use. If the device have enough battery life, you will not have the need to have a spare battery on you.

    Posted via my Q10
    Some people don't sleep. I'm talking to you Bla1ze

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-14 09:30 PM
  13. lushpinkgirl's Avatar
    That is my worry. There have been times that only removing the battery will reset whatever issue i am having. Also, my phone would. Ot turn off, and stay off on my last airplane trip. Had to pull it to make it stop turning on.
    09-16-14 09:38 PM
  14. Gatmyer's Avatar
    That is my worry. There have been times that only removing the battery will reset whatever issue i am having. Also, my phone would. Ot turn off, and stay off on my last airplane trip. Had to pull it to make it stop turning on.
    With bb10 simply hold the power button or the volume up and down keys at the same time to to a hard reset. No battery pull required.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-14 09:42 PM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    I agree with you all that we should not be worried if Classic would have a stellar battery life. But again... the ability to change battery in few seconds is much more convenient, simpler and preferable esp for ppl who are always on the go. If you do regular 9-5 jobs, then it shouldn't be problem at all with non-removable battery.

    I often travel on train and my normal journey time is anywhere between 10-14 hrs. Battery life has been always a problem for me. So, lets say you have 2 spare batteries & a Device, you don't need to worry about for 1 week long business/leisure trip :-)
    9-5? What is THAT?? lol... Too many times i've climbed in bed only to get called back out 5 minutes later. 3600mAh aftermarket battery provides my 9900 with 3+ day endurance, depending on usage and signal. I STILL carry spares and use them enough to feel really vulnerable without them. I realize 24/7 Pro's are a small minority but isn't that what niche markets are about? Watts out mean watts in. Bigger batts might take more "wall time" to charge. Probably not an issue for many but a BIG deal for some of us. Swappable battery restores device to 100% in five minutes. Tough to match that "charge rate" with any battery tech i'm aware of. Maybe SuperCaps someday??

    The swappable batt debate will likely go on forever but i'd really like to explore the market side of this. Virtually ALL legacy devices featured swappable battery. If legacy users were dissatisfied with that configuration, they likely wouldn't still be legacy users, IMO. My tiny personal "survey" of legacy users, in and around my little part of the world, can find NO current legacy users that feel like the non-swappable battery is a GOOD idea. Well less than half feel they can even tolerate non-swappable. With that in mind, it seems a pretty risky marketing strategy to be targeting existing "legacy" users with a non-swappable device. Irregardless of how great, or poor, the idea might be, the risk seems surprising given the importance of the success of this device. ???

    The easiest way for my old "legacy brain" to connect those dots is to assume BB really isn't solely targeting existing legacy directly. The device really resembles Q10 fitted with toolbelt more than it resembles 9900. THAT can be a GOOD thing in it's own right. Given the Q's history with it's swappable battery connection reliability, it makes sense that they were at least partially targeting Q10 users, also.

    Additionally, if existing legacy users were the sole target, it sure seems counter-intuitive to re-introduce 9900's just a few months prior to "Classic" intro.... Gotta be a bigger picture in all of this.
    nikesu and Mr4aces like this.
    09-16-14 10:52 PM
  16. bobshine's Avatar
    I don't think the Classic is targeting solely legacy users. The Classic is simply targeting traditional BlackBerry users and "nostalgic" BlackBerry Users or ex users. The charm of that phone is that it has a traditional keyboard and a belt.

    So the main clientle of the classic are people that already used a BlackBerry in the past and like the tool belt and the current users of legacy device.

    I doubt that it will appeal many BlackBerry Users and touchscreen users from other platform, especially those that never used at BlackBerry.



    Posted via CB10
    nikesu likes this.
    09-16-14 11:01 PM
  17. Ernest101's Avatar
    9-5? What is THAT?? lol... Too many times i've climbed in bed only to get called back out 5 minutes later. 3600mAh aftermarket battery provides my 9900 with 3+ day endurance, depending on usage and signal. I STILL carry spares and use them enough to feel really vulnerable without them. I realize 24/7 Pro's are a small minority but isn't that what niche markets are about? Watts out mean watts in. Bigger batts might take more "wall time" to charge. Probably not an issue for many but a BIG deal for some of us. Swappable battery restores device to 100% in five minutes. Tough to match that "charge rate" with any battery tech i'm aware of. Maybe SuperCaps someday??

    The swappable batt debate will likely go on forever but i'd really like to explore the market side of this. Virtually ALL legacy devices featured swappable battery. If legacy users were dissatisfied with that configuration, they likely wouldn't still be legacy users, IMO. My tiny personal "survey" of legacy users, in and around my little part of the world, can find NO current legacy users that feel like the non-swappable battery is a GOOD idea. Well less than half feel they can even tolerate non-swappable. With that in mind, it seems a pretty risky marketing strategy to be targeting existing "legacy" users with a non-swappable device. Irregardless of how great, or poor, the idea might be, the risk seems surprising given the importance of the success of this device. ???

    The easiest way for my old "legacy brain" to connect those dots is to assume BB really isn't solely targeting existing legacy directly. The device really resembles Q10 fitted with toolbelt more than it resembles 9900. THAT can be a GOOD thing in it's own right. Given the Q's history with it's swappable battery connection reliability, it makes sense that they were at least partially targeting Q10 users, also.

    Additionally, if existing legacy users were the sole target, it sure seems counter-intuitive to re-introduce 9900's just a few months prior to "Classic" intro.... Gotta be a bigger picture in all of this.
    I have never used a legacy device but I heard that the battery life in those devices are terrible, was your survey based on that battery life in particular or based on a possible 3.1k mAH Classic?

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-14 11:07 PM
  18. idssteve's Avatar
    I have never used a legacy device but I heard that the battery life in those devices are terrible, was your survey based on that battery life in particular or based on a possible 3.1k mAH Classic?

    Posted via CB10
    My tiny, decidedly NON-scientific "survey" included at least a few using 3000+mAh aftermarket batteries. The 9900's oem batt is notorious and might be the worst of legacy batt life. Survivable because the batts can be swapped. I know of other legacy, like the 9650, that provided much better endurance than the 9900. Tiny "surveys" aside, given the fact that so many legacy users are still using swappable batteries, it seems risky marketing to "fix" something that the target market is still willing to use. ?? Risks that might make more sense to me if the device's success wasn't so critical. ??

    Given the Q10's connection issue, i'm thinking that existing Q10 users might be more eager to seek the fixed batt configuration. ??
    nikesu likes this.
    09-16-14 11:29 PM
  19. AmritD's Avatar
    If it has a big enough battery I don't think it is an issue. My Z30 makes it easily through the day. I was on it non stop for 13.5 hours and still finished the day with 20 percent. I was at cedar point too so it was direct sunlight. The specs are a totally different story. But seeing the target demographic it makes sense. The 9900 crowd is still getting a major major upgrade and the phone will probably cost less than 350 bux. You have no reason not to upgrade your bold.

    Posted via CB10
    A bigger battery cannot make up for a non removable battery for a lot of people. And personally I feel removable batteries are better. U can just swap batteries. Whenever and wherever u want to.
    nikesu, Mr4aces and dmlis like this.
    09-16-14 11:41 PM
  20. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    A bigger battery cannot make up for a non removable battery for a lot of people. And personally I feel removable batteries are better. U can just swap batteries. Whenever and wherever u want to.
    I sleep every night and plug in every night. The Z30 would never run out unless something screwed up drained the battery. And these batteries are getting too big. Do you really want to carry a 2500+ battery or 3000+?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    09-17-14 12:20 AM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    I sleep every night and plug in every night. The Z30 would never run out unless something screwed up drained the battery. And these batteries are getting too big. Do you really want to carry a 2500+ battery or 3000+?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    LOL,.. i carry a charged 3600 in my left pocket. It's a chunk to carry. Wouldn't want it to be any larger.. , Discharged 3600 goes into right pocket till swapped for charged batt again. I've gone weeks at a time without usb charging. A tiny minority, i know. A moot point since we're pretty convinced the new Q will be fixed batt so... just adding my .02 to the OP.

    All said and done, as the only BB10 toolbelt device, the Q20 "Classic" will be WELCOMED by most and i'm excited to get one in hand. I personally expect MANY legacy users will jump on it right off and quite a few will eventually migrate to it as their older stuff ages over the next year or two. I'm betting a colleague a week's worth of coffee that the new Q outsells the old Q by May.
    09-17-14 12:42 AM
  22. VR6's Avatar
    This reminds me of a post I made a while back about bring too picky. BlackBerry has never released a "perfect" phone that leaves you wanting nothing.

    OP said it. The 9900 was almost perfect except the crappy camera and battery.

    The Classic has enough going for it for me to want to get it, even though it has its drawbacks (permanent battery, no convenience buttons, no charging contacts, no lighted trackpad)

    Posted via CB10
    nikesu likes this.
    09-17-14 12:58 AM
  23. idssteve's Avatar
    This reminds me of a post I made a while back about bring too picky. BlackBerry has never released a "perfect" phone that leaves you wanting nothing.

    OP said it. The 9900 was almost perfect except the crappy camera and battery.

    The Classic has enough going for it for me to want to get it, even though it has its drawbacks (permanent battery, no convenience buttons, no charging contacts, no lighted trackpad)

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, sometimes you just have to play the hand you have. A few here in the breakroom feel BB is guilty of what they call "Bill Gates" market model... That is, if you produce a perfect product, no one will ever buy the new ones. Always include a flaw so that existing users, seeking correction, are eager for the next upgrade. Next upgrade fixes old flaws but introduces new flaws.... Been pretty profitable for MS. BB might have carried to extreme...??? LOL...
    nikesu and Mr4aces like this.
    09-17-14 01:06 AM
  24. iPomps's Avatar
    I really like the fact that when I drop my BlackBerry (which I do from time to time) I don't have the thing broken like the iPhone and have to replace the whole phone.

    The back pops off and the battery falls out (absorbing the shock), I slap everything back in place and I'm good to go.

    This may seem like a weird comment but this fact of having a removable battery is a lifesaver for me!

    CB10/Z10
    nikesu likes this.
    09-17-14 01:06 AM
  25. VR6's Avatar
    Yeah, sometimes you just have to play the hand you have. A few here in the breakroom feel BB is guilty of what they call "Bill Gates" market model... That is, if you produce a perfect product, no one will ever buy the new ones. Always include a flaw so that existing users, seeking correction, are eager for the next upgrade. Next upgrade fixes old flaws but introduces new flaws.... Been pretty profitable for MS. BB might have carried to extreme...??? LOL...
    Well even if you try to make. A perfect phone you will fail. Ppl will find something to complain about anyway. Plus even if you make a great hardware phone, the next model will be faster or higher or brighter. Kinda like iPhone and so ppl will still buy.

    Posted via CB10
    09-17-14 01:54 AM
38 12

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