04-01-18 02:01 PM
58 123
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  1. scubafan's Avatar
    I think blackberry should go back to the concept of having everything you need for a smartphone under the OS. Back in the BBOS and BB days, you could get by with using the OS apps and maybe a handful of third-party apps. Looking at my IOS and android devices, I got to have 2 or 3 apps just to get 1 thing done right.


    For those of you who want to have some control of your android devices, I would look at copperhead OS. Been testing it out for a few months and I haven't had any issues with it. Monthly security updates has been right on time, and there's no google services or anything google on the phone. The only thing is that you HAVE to use a nexus or pixel device

    https://copperhead.co/android/

    Posted via CB10
    As others have posted, you usually have to have multiple 3rd party apps to do some basic functions. And of course 95+% of apps want access to every part of the device. Does Copperhead provide any level of blocking? Is it a variant of android or just a related OS? Because even without google play the basic android TOS still says that google can & will access all data on or generated by the device just to be allowed to power it on for the first time... so it seems moot whether you use play store or not. AFAIK that's still the only source for getting apps for any use, not just games & social media.

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    01-07-18 08:36 PM
  2. zodmode247's Avatar
    As others have posted, you usually have to have multiple 3rd party apps to do some basic functions. And of course 95+% of apps want access to every part of the device. Does Copperhead provide any level of blocking? Is it a variant of android or just a related OS? Because even without google play the basic android TOS still says that google can & will access all data on or generated by the device just to be allowed to power it on for the first time... so it seems moot whether you use play store or not. AFAIK that's still the only source for getting apps for any use, not just games & social media.

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    If you haven't read the technical overview, it should answer some of your questions
    https://copperhead.co/android/docs/technical_overview

    Posted via CB10
    01-07-18 09:15 PM
  3. scubafan's Avatar
    Thanks, I'll Check it out!

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    01-07-18 09:29 PM
  4. JSmith422's Avatar
    I think blackberry should go back to the concept of having everything you need for a smartphone under the OS. Back in the BBOS and BB days, you could get by with using the OS apps and maybe a handful of third-party apps. Looking at my IOS and android devices, I got to have 2 or 3 apps just to get 1 thing done right.


    For those of you who want to have some control of your android devices, I would look at copperhead OS. Been testing it out for a few months and I haven't had any issues with it. Monthly security updates has been right on time, and there's no google services or anything google on the phone. The only thing is that you HAVE to use a nexus or pixel device

    https://copperhead.co/android/

    Posted via CB10
    Are you still using Copperhead? If so, what can you tell us about it? Our company has been looking into it, but haven't pulled the trigger yet as bb10 is still doing the job. However we're looking for a viable long term strategy, and bb10 obviously isn't it.

    From a user's perspective, how's the experience? Have you loaded any apps? Are you using it in a business environment?
    02-01-18 04:36 AM
  5. zodmode247's Avatar
    Are you still using Copperhead? If so, what can you tell us about it? Our company has been looking into it, but haven't pulled the trigger yet as bb10 is still doing the job. However we're looking for a viable long term strategy, and bb10 obviously isn't it.

    From a user's perspective, how's the experience? Have you loaded any apps? Are you using it in a business environment?
    Y‎es I'm still using copperhead OS as my daily driver. I'm using it with a nexus 5x and nexus 6p. As far as performance, the phones are butter smooth. It's just like using stock android. Didn't have any lag whatsoever. Battery life wasn't the greatest on the nexus 5x though. Security updates comes every month on-time. I even got two extra updates last month. Both phones is on android oreo 8.1.

    There is a few issues though. Since there's no google services from top to bottom, some apps that depend heavy on Google won't work. I don't know which one in particular, but when I tried to add a Gmail account to the email app that comes with the OS, it wouldn't let me sign up. I also got an email from google saying someone was trying to access my account. Other apps works fine. The OS comes with F-droid. You can also side load other stores too.

    If you're looking for a long term solution, i'll wait until they offer the pixel 2. You'll get a much longer software support from them. The company mention they supposed to stop supporting the nexus devices sometime towards the end of this year. I'll say get one of the nexus phone and flash the OS yourself or pick up one the pixel devices.

    The pixel devices will give you all the extra security features that the nexus devices won't have. It's not that copperhead is favoring the pixels over the nexus devices, it just the pixels uses newer technologies for copperhead to take advantage of.


    Posted via CB10
    02-01-18 04:29 PM
  6. scubafan's Avatar
    Any updates on how Copperhead is faring for you? Or whether anything newer is out as possible improved options as far as giving users the granular control that BlackBerry 10 gives to block apps & especially google from reading contacts, calendar & files?

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    03-19-18 05:30 AM
  7. JSmith422's Avatar
    Any updates on how Copperhead is faring for you? Or whether anything newer is out as possible improved options as far as giving users the granular control that BlackBerry 10 gives to block apps & especially google from reading contacts, calendar & files?

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    We're still evaluating, but getting closer to having to make a decision on something. BB10 seems to glitch more and more. Unfortunately, we don't have the in depth expertise to answer some of the important questions we have regarding the OS.

    We're considering the Pixel 2 running Copperhead OS.

    While it all seems on the up and up, there's no telling how long Copperhead will be in business, so that's a risk too. We also need remote wipe capabilities, and ideally wipe on X number of failed login attempts. We also aren't sure if we can get those. There's also the question of security if someone has the device in their possession.

    In terms of utility,we're thinking of running Blackberry Hub+ but aren't sure how well it will work without any Google services. Perhaps Cobalts solution, but I doubt it would meet our compliance requirements.

    If anyone has any insight on the above, we'd love to hear it.
    03-21-18 02:23 AM
  8. scubafan's Avatar
    Whoa, it sounds as if you have some serious requirements! I'm curious, what's your position on the OS permissions regarding not only what areas apps are allowed to examine but google itself? That's my critical issue!

    While I still think that it's very deliberate fostering an anti consumer privacy attitude that's behind the way that when google pretended to offer a weak imitation (in the marshmallow update) of the granular control every single BlackBerry has given me. If they ACTUALLY wanted to give users any TRUE privacy they would've killed off the "all or nothing" approach nearly all android apps use! I have dozens of apps on my Q10 that run perfectly fine without allowing any of them to access my calendar, contacts, stored files, Web search history, texts etc. Heck, the core BlackBerry Maps app will still be totally usable for trip planning without even giving IT access to my GPS!

    So that's the goal that I'm shooting for, namely the ability to keep google's slimy paws from data mining my "to-do list", calendar or contacts. Then I could continue to keep my data private & resume using MS Outlook to comfortably add or modify entries with a full size pkb instead of slowly pecking out everything on these itty-bitty keys.

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    03-21-18 05:40 AM
  9. JSmith422's Avatar
    Whoa, it sounds as if you have some serious requirements! I'm curious, what's your position on the OS permissions regarding not only what areas apps are allowed to examine but google itself? That's my critical issue!

    While I still think that it's very deliberate fostering an anti consumer privacy attitude that's behind the way that when google pretended to offer a weak imitation (in the marshmallow update) of the granular control every single BlackBerry has given me. If they ACTUALLY wanted to give users any TRUE privacy they would've killed off the "all or nothing" approach nearly all android apps use! I have dozens of apps on my Q10 that run perfectly fine without allowing any of them to access my calendar, contacts, stored files, Web search history, texts etc. Heck, the core BlackBerry Maps app will still be totally usable for trip planning without even giving IT access to my GPS!

    So that's the goal that I'm shooting for, namely the ability to keep google's slimy paws from data mining my "to-do list", calendar or contacts. Then I could continue to keep my data private & resume using MS Outlook to comfortably add or modify entries with a full size pkb instead of slowly pecking out everything on these itty-bitty keys.

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    In a nutshell, it sounds like Copperhead is exactly what you're looking for, it was literally designed to do everything you're describing.

    As far as I understand, there is no need to worry about Google accessing anything on the device because Google has been completely removed from it...they literally have zero access. It's likely the most private OS since the flip phone, and from my understanding, far more private than even bb10 (but perhaps not quite as secure - there is a huge difference between privacy and security, and we happen to require both).

    In terms of other Apps, Sandboxing has been improved and reinforced so in theory it's better than any other Android, but I have no way of knowing how it specifically compares to Apple's implementation or BlackBerry 10 for that matter. That's a question we're trying to get answered actually. But on the surface it appears to be very strong. If you don't load malicious apps that are going to suck up your data, then you shouldn't have a problem, imo.

    Ultimately, if we can't get some of our questions answered because people just don't know...for example bb10 is closed source, does anyone REALLY know how good their Sandboxing was? We might end up using multiple devices again. Ios for specific apps, and Copperhead for communications and certain data.
    03-21-18 12:13 PM
  10. moonflyer's Avatar
    I think blackberry should go back to the concept of having everything you need for a smartphone under the OS. Back in the BBOS and BB days, you could get by with using the OS apps and maybe a handful of third-party apps. Looking at my IOS and android devices, I got to have 2 or 3 apps just to get 1 thing done right.


    For those of you who want to have some control of your android devices, I would look at copperhead OS. Been testing it out for a few months and I haven't had any issues with it. Monthly security updates has been right on time, and there's no google services or anything google on the phone. The only thing is that you HAVE to use a nexus or pixel device

    https://copperhead.co/android/

    Posted via CB10
    That is really an amazing product as described - Copperhead OS. I hope that everything written there is true, and that Google buys it one day to make all those features a part of the core Android OS.

    Unfortunately, going anything less than Pixel 2 seems to be a bad choice.
    03-21-18 02:07 PM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    That is really an amazing product as described - Copperhead OS. I hope that everything written there is true, and that Google buys it one day to make all those features a part of the core Android OS.

    Unfortunately, going anything less than Pixel 2 seems to be a bad choice.
    What makes you think Google wants those features which undeniably would undermine the capabilities of Android OS? With all their resources, wouldn't Google do this on their own? Copperhead is probably valued about the amount of loose change in the couches in the Google breakrooms.
    03-21-18 02:57 PM
  12. zodmode247's Avatar
    That is really an amazing product as described - Copperhead OS. I hope that everything written there is true, and that Google buys it one day to make all those features a part of the core Android OS.

    Unfortunately, going anything less than Pixel 2 seems to be a bad choice.
    I seriously doubt Google will buy a company that's based on security. Google wants to data mined everything.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by zodmode247; 03-21-18 at 04:01 PM.
    03-21-18 03:38 PM
  13. zodmode247's Avatar
    Any updates on how Copperhead is faring for you? Or whether anything newer is out as possible improved options as far as giving users the granular control that BlackBerry 10 gives to block apps & especially google from reading contacts, calendar & files?

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    Copperhead is doing great over here. Still getting security updates. The phone still runs good. And google free! I'm looking to upgrade to a pixel 2 sometime in the next couple of months as support will stop later this year. The pixels has more security built-in their devices and the support is much longer

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by zodmode247; 03-21-18 at 04:00 PM.
    03-21-18 03:45 PM
  14. JSmith422's Avatar
    What makes you think Google wants those features which undeniably would undermine the capabilities of Android OS? With all their resources, wouldn't Google do this on their own? Copperhead is probably valued about the amount of loose change in the couches in the Google breakrooms.
    This is true, it probably doesn't make sense from acquisition standpoint, but to my understanding Copperhead does already have code in Google Android. Copperhead figured out how to fix security issues that Google hadn't. Google actually spoke about this at Black Hat 2017 and mentioned Copperhead specifically by name and how impressed they were with what Copperhead has done security wise...the presentation is on youtube.
    moonflyer likes this.
    03-21-18 08:47 PM
  15. zodmode247's Avatar
    I'm going have to check out that presentation. One of my main concerns is that in the near future, more apps will need google services or play services to work properly.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-18 08:53 PM
  16. JSmith422's Avatar
    I'm going have to check out that presentation. One of my main concerns is that in the near future, more apps will need google services or play services to work properly.

    Posted via CB10
    That's by design I think, Google gives away the OS, but can't do much with it if you need their services to run anything.
    03-21-18 09:44 PM
  17. scubafan's Avatar
    Um, now I'm further confused. I thought I read that Copperhead had some way to get basic android apps & the ability to run them? I would only go to the expense & effort to learn more about the new OS if it can do the few apps I'd find useful that my Q10 can't run. None are ones that (I hope) need to be constantly checking in with google play. I specifically would like to use the Consumer Reports app, a few airline apps for mobile boarding passes, & the local TV news app for severe weather alerts since we're in "tornado alley". After that, I of course would like the CB app, one reliable weather app, Wikipedia & a good browser.

    Do any of these sound like a problem for Copperhead to run?

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    03-22-18 04:38 PM
  18. zodmode247's Avatar
    Um, now I'm further confused. I thought I read that Copperhead had some way to get basic android apps & the ability to run them? I would only go to the expense & effort to learn more about the new OS if it can do the few apps I'd find useful that my Q10 can't run. None are ones that (I hope) need to be constantly checking in with google play. I specifically would like to use the Consumer Reports app, a few airline apps for mobile boarding passes, & the local TV news app for severe weather alerts since we're in "tornado alley". After that, I of course would like the CB app, one reliable weather app, Wikipedia & a good browser.

    Do any of these sound like a problem for Copperhead to run?

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    I can't comment on those particular apps. Copperhead OS doesn't comes with play store. When I tried to sign in my gmail account with the email app, I couldn't sign in. All the apps I use are from F-Droid and Aptoide. Aptoide do have a lot of apps from the playstore.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by zodmode247; 03-22-18 at 05:20 PM.
    03-22-18 04:56 PM
  19. JSmith422's Avatar
    Um, now I'm further confused. I thought I read that Copperhead had some way to get basic android apps & the ability to run them? I would only go to the expense & effort to learn more about the new OS if it can do the few apps I'd find useful that my Q10 can't run. None are ones that (I hope) need to be constantly checking in with google play. I specifically would like to use the Consumer Reports app, a few airline apps for mobile boarding passes, & the local TV news app for severe weather alerts since we're in "tornado alley". After that, I of course would like the CB app, one reliable weather app, Wikipedia & a good browser.

    Do any of these sound like a problem for Copperhead to run?

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    Copperhead is Android, it can run any Android app, and if you want to, you can load whatever you feel is needed onto your device (such as Amazon App store or side load or other app stores, but you may compromise privacy and security in the process). The problem comes in if the app you want to use relies on Google. Then you have a dilemma, because that's what Copperhead is, is de-googled Android. If you need apps that use Google, then just buy a blackberry and be done with it.

    In reality, I don't think anyone besides the actual app developers themselves can answer your questions directly. You'll just have to check to see if each app you want requires Google Services in order to function. With that said though, many SAY that it's required, but the app runs perfectly without it. Others truly need Google in order to function. There are also work around apps that you can use to mimic Google Services to make some apps function normally. Every app is going to be different and nobody will be able to say if each app you want will work or not...some may have limited functionality without Google - that may, or may not, work for your needs. You'll have to try to find out.

    Luckily Copperhead OS is open source. You can try for free.

    The reality is though, there's no free lunch. Privacy and Security come at a price, and unfortunately, that price is often function. We give up function to gain privacy. Everyone has a different tolerance for each. You'll have to decide what your tolerance is.

    One other thing you may want to be aware of, is that while the OS can certainly be a contributing factor in the lack of privacy, it's often the Apps that are the worst culprit. A judicious review of their privacy policies and an exploration of what they're actually collecting is often prudent. We find that if the app doesn't specifically tell you it's not collecting, it's usually collecting. Again, that may or may not be an issue for you. Its just something to consider if privacy is of significant concern.
    zodmode247 and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    03-22-18 07:55 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Copperhead is Android, it can run any Android app, and if you want to, you can load whatever you feel is needed onto your device (such as Amazon App store or side load or other app stores, but you may compromise privacy and security in the process). The problem comes in if the app you want to use relies on Google. Then you have a dilemma, because that's what Copperhead is, is de-googled Android. If you need apps that use Google, then just buy a blackberry and be done with it.

    In reality, I don't think anyone besides the actual app developers themselves can answer your questions directly. You'll just have to check to see if each app you want requires Google Services in order to function. With that said though, many SAY that it's required, but the app runs perfectly without it. Others truly need Google in order to function. There are also work around apps that you can use to mimic Google Services to make some apps function normally. Every app is going to be different and nobody will be able to say if each app you want will work or not...some may have limited functionality without Google - that may, or may not, work for your needs. You'll have to try to find out.

    Luckily Copperhead OS is open source. You can try for free.

    The reality is though, there's no free lunch. Privacy and Security come at a price, and unfortunately, that price is often function. We give up function to gain privacy. Everyone has a different tolerance for each. You'll have to decide what your tolerance is.

    One other thing you may want to be aware of, is that while the OS can certainly be a contributing factor in the lack of privacy, it's often the Apps that are the worst culprit. A judicious review of their privacy policies and an exploration of what they're actually collecting is often prudent. We find that if the app doesn't specifically tell you it's not collecting, it's usually collecting. Again, that may or may not be an issue for you. Its just something to consider if privacy is of significant concern.
    Very true. Google is not usually your worst enemy - apps are.

    The sad truth is that the vast majority of decent apps now require Google Play Services. This was essentially the death knell for BB10 (after native development dried up in the early months).

    The list of "Google-less" Android platforms - BB10 and Fire OS - haven't exactly taken the world by storm.
    03-22-18 09:35 PM
  21. JSmith422's Avatar
    Um, now I'm further confused. I thought I read that Copperhead had some way to get basic android apps & the ability to run them? I would only go to the expense & effort to learn more about the new OS if it can do the few apps I'd find useful that my Q10 can't run. None are ones that (I hope) need to be constantly checking in with google play. I specifically would like to use the Consumer Reports app, a few airline apps for mobile boarding passes, & the local TV news app for severe weather alerts since we're in "tornado alley". After that, I of course would like the CB app, one reliable weather app, Wikipedia & a good browser.

    Do any of these sound like a problem for Copperhead to run?

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    Give this a read. It should help.

    https://copperhead.co/android/docs/usage_guide
    03-23-18 06:51 AM
  22. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The sad truth is that the vast majority of decent apps now require Google Play Services. This was essentially the death knell for BB10 (after native development dried up in the early months).
    And by design, it also took most of the wind out of the sails of anyone - including Microsoft - who was considering trying to run Android apps on other platforms. Google hasn't invested billions into Android and their app store just so other companies can ride Google Play's coattails. But by making Play Services optional (though highly desirable for most developers), they've ensured a slow but steady transition towards Play Services by developers. Every year, it will get harder for non-Google platforms to use Android apps.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-23-18 08:57 PM
  23. scubafan's Avatar
    Thanks for the input, it's helpful! I'm going to ask another noob question. If I just put the ".com" on the end I hope to find the two app sources. But I don't know if I'll be able to browse through the apps or not, & whether or not they will list permissions needed like the traditional app stores do. Will they?

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    03-24-18 12:14 PM
  24. scubafan's Avatar
    Give this a read. It should help.

    https://copperhead.co/android/docs/usage_guide
    Well, I thank you for the link, but won't be able to read it until later. All 4 browsers on my Q10 say that the link is to a "known security risk and has been blocked for your protection". None would even let me use it with an exception. So when I have my laptop I'll look into it. Just wanted to thank you while I was thinking about it.

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    03-24-18 12:22 PM
  25. JSmith422's Avatar
    Well, I thank you for the link, but won't be able to read it until later. All 4 browsers on my Q10 say that the link is to a "known security risk and has been blocked for your protection". None would even let me use it with an exception. So when I have my laptop I'll look into it. Just wanted to thank you while I was thinking about it.

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    What version OS are you on? Seems to work fine on 10.3.3, but it didn't work at all on 10.3.2.
    03-24-18 05:50 PM
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