10-24-14 10:24 AM
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  1. jayemmbee's Avatar
    That's to trick old school BBOS users in to buying it thinking they're getting BBOS 8.

    Then they take their first tentative steps with it and discover that, OH NO! It doesn't render my phone almost unusable and force me to reboot the phone when installing or uninstalling apps.

    And OH NO! It doesn't force me to rummage through my pockets for my other battery and look like I just walked out of 2005 in public by cunningly lasting a full day on one charge.

    And OH NO! It doesn't randomly lock up just when I need it and show me the spinning clock of lag until it's ready to allow me to "get things done".

    And OH NO! It doesn't slow down my web browsing experience by taking an eternity to resolve URLs to IP addresses through the NOC and start loading the page.

    And OH NO! It supports multiple core processors and huge amounts of RAM so it can work with enormous amounts of data with processing power still to spare allowing me to multitask in a modern and efficient way.

    And OH NO! It supports ActiveSync allowing me to add multiple work mailboxes so I can BYOD in a modern and efficient way.

    And OH NO! It gives me easy access to my work network drives and Intranet when on BES10 so my documents are just a few taps away wherever I am and not stored in a leaky Cloud.

    And OH NO! It doesn't reduce my phone to a stuttering unusable crawl when over-the-air OS upgrades are downloaded and installed while I need to keep using my phone to stay in touch with the world.

    And OH NO! It runs most Android apps opening up my digital world to things my old BlackBerry could never dream of doing!

    They'll definitely return it in bitter disappointment.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    Rofl

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk likes this.
    09-10-14 04:08 PM
  2. idssteve's Avatar
    The 9900 that has such a pathetic battery life that is HAS to be swappable to make it through a day? Give me a battery that lasts a full working day and then on til midnight any day of the week over that. Mobile external power sources are the future for those who need more.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    Aftermarket 3600ma batt in my 99 provides a solid 3 day endurance. I still carry spares.
    09-10-14 06:41 PM
  3. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    The problem, though, is the classic is looks only. Plenty of folks aren't converting because the company doesn't want to support a new platform. They don't have time and money to move to a new BES and buy all new phones.

    And some people don't want to upgrade simply because the apps they have aren't going to be available.

    It isn't always just about the looks. But it would be nice if it was

    Posted via CB from my LE
    That's why BES12 Is being made. You can get new devices and still have people on the old ones.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    09-10-14 06:43 PM
  4. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    The 9900 that has such a pathetic battery life that is HAS to be swappable to make it through a day? Give me a battery that lasts a full working day and then on til midnight any day of the week over that. Mobile external power sources are the future for those who need more.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    Is the battery life worse than Z10?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    09-10-14 06:44 PM
  5. Loc22's Avatar
    I'm hoping for a Z10 with a tool belt. Will that ever come?

    Posted via CB10
    09-10-14 06:53 PM
  6. idssteve's Avatar
    That's to trick old school BBOS users in to buying it thinking they're getting BBOS 8.

    Then they take their first tentative steps with it and discover that, OH NO! It doesn't render my phone almost unusable and force me to reboot the phone when installing or uninstalling apps.

    And OH NO! It doesn't force me to rummage through my pockets for my other battery and look like I just walked out of 2005 in public by cunningly lasting a full day on one charge.

    And OH NO! It doesn't randomly lock up just when I need it and show me the spinning clock of lag until it's ready to allow me to "get things done".

    And OH NO! It doesn't slow down my web browsing experience by taking an eternity to resolve URLs to IP addresses through the NOC and start loading the page.

    And OH NO! It supports multiple core processors and huge amounts of RAM so it can work with enormous amounts of data with processing power still to spare allowing me to multitask in a modern and efficient way.

    And OH NO! It supports ActiveSync allowing me to add multiple work mailboxes so I can BYOD in a modern and efficient way.

    And OH NO! It gives me easy access to my work network drives and Intranet when on BES10 so my documents are just a few taps away wherever I am and not stored in a leaky Cloud.

    And OH NO! It doesn't reduce my phone to a stuttering unusable crawl when over-the-air OS upgrades are downloaded and installed while I need to keep using my phone to stay in touch with the world.

    And OH NO! It runs most Android apps opening up my digital world to things my old BlackBerry could never dream of doing!

    They'll definitely return it in bitter disappointment.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    So, mimicking Apple's fixed battery is what fixed all those "OH NOs"?? Never realized battery configuration could cure so many ailments. Z/Q10 users might be surprised to hear that.
    09-10-14 06:58 PM
  7. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Aftermarket 3600ma batt in my 99 provides a solid 3 day endurance. I still carry spares.
    Clearly you are not a typical 9900 owner and you don't like plugging in!

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    idssteve likes this.
    09-10-14 07:04 PM
  8. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I'm hoping for a Z10 with a tool belt. Will that ever come?

    Posted via CB10
    That would be interesting to see actually.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    09-10-14 07:05 PM
  9. johnnyuk's Avatar
    That's why BES12 Is being made. You can get new devices and still have people on the old ones.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    What makes me think that this is a red herring as to why Enterprises didn't leap on to the BB10 train is that it is possible to install BES10 on the same server as BES5. So you could always get new devices and still have people on the old ones. You can even manage the devices on BES5 from the BES10 Management Studio console.

    Even with the 2 free BES5 to BES10 CAL trade up programs that BlackBerry has run this fact has not helped BES10 and BB10 adoption.

    BES12 effectively allows you to upgrade an existing BES5 installation to 12, so yes it's a slightly easier install and more integrated in how you use it but the perceived barrier that people think has been there for the last year and a half just isn't really there.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    09-10-14 07:14 PM
  10. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Is the battery life worse than Z10?

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    It's about the same. :/

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    09-10-14 07:15 PM
  11. johnnyuk's Avatar
    So, mimicking Apple's fixed battery is what fixed all those "OH NOs"?? Never realized battery configuration could cure so many ailments. Z/Q10 users might be surprised to hear that.
    What?????????

    Have you quoted the right person???

    I said it's called the "Classic" to trick BBOS stalwarts in to thinking they're getting BBOS 8.

    Didn't say anything about fixed batteries causing all the reasons BBOS is a dead end to go away, because that wouldn't make any sense at all.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    09-10-14 07:20 PM
  12. johnnyuk's Avatar
    I'm hoping for a Z10 with a tool belt. Will that ever come?

    Posted via CB10
    Uh oh, the Curve 9380 and Torch 9860 felt weird for being all touch...but with the old physical toolbelt too. Felt odd to use and took some getting used to.

    The biggest human-computer interface quirk on those old phones was scrolling. On the screen you would move your finger UP the screen to scroll down a web page for example. But if you switched to using the trackpad you had to move your finger in the opposite direction, DOWN the trackpad to scroll down.

    It felt very unintuitive switching between the two so I hope they've tidied that up for the Classic!

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    09-10-14 07:28 PM
  13. idssteve's Avatar
    What?????????

    Have you quoted the right person???

    I said it's called the "Classic" to trick BBOS stalwarts in to thinking they're getting BBOS 8.

    Didn't say anything about fixed batteries causing all the reasons BBOS is a dead end to go away, because that wouldn't make any sense at all.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    LOL... confusion intended. I felt that the single sentence you quoted from my post didn't accurately reflect the point i was making in that post. lol

    My point in that previous post had NOthing to do with any conspiracies to "trick" BBOSers. IMO, the single biggest impediment for attracting legacy users into BB10 has little to do with the OS's themselves. Given BB10.3's maturity, HARDWARE is now the predominant impediment to that transition, IMO. WHY does transitioning to BB10 require loosing swappable batteries and other hardware features legacy users value? WHY is BB so resistant to including those hardware features in BB10 devices??
    09-10-14 08:56 PM
  14. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Why does this point come up repeatedly on these forums? How dumb are we assuming the enterprise/business user holding OS7 to be? I sincerely don't think any quantifiable amount of OS7 users think they are getting a legacy OS upgrade here. Every. Single. Q20. Article. Says it has OS10. It's no secret. If Blackberry's goal was tricking their customers, they should be doing a lot more than just naming the phone "classic."

    Let's all not forget it was always called the Q20 until Chen went off on a tanget at Mobile World Congress and called it the classic despite repeated prompts from his handler that it's called the Q20. Only later was it renamed (breaking from Blackberry's longstanding naming convention), and zero other attempts have been made by Blackberry to otherwise rename, redesign or respec the phone from what it was always originally designed and advertised to do.
    Somehow I don't think you quite got the tongue in cheek tone of my full comment.

    But having said that, I must add that as a BES Admin in an Enterprise who procures, configures and manages mobile devices for our employees to use I can assure you that when it comes to BlackBerrys in 2014 in the workplace nobody and I mean NOBODY has the faintest idea that BlackBerry phones have progressed any further than that creaking old Curve they once used in 2000-and-something-or-other. And they also are not the least bit interested in doing research for themselves to find out what BlackBerry phones are like today. BlackBerry is already dead to them, they think we still buy them because we get them dirt cheap from a liquidator after BlackBerry's bankruptcy, I kid you not!

    So, given that, when they hear that their employer is buying them a "BlackBerry Classic" what kind of phone and user experience do you think that conjours up their mind's eye?

    Discuss.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    09-10-14 09:32 PM
  15. spork141's Avatar
    Why does this point come up repeatedly on these forums? How dumb are we assuming the enterprise/business user holding OS7 to be? I sincerely don't think any quantifiable amount of OS7 users think they are getting a legacy OS upgrade here. Every. Single. Q20. Article. Says it has OS10. It's no secret. If Blackberry's goal was tricking their customers, they should be doing a lot more than just naming the phone "classic."

    Let's all not forget it was always called the Q20 until Chen went off on a tanget at Mobile World Congress and called it the classic despite repeated prompts from his handler that it's called the Q20. Only later was it renamed (breaking from Blackberry's longstanding naming convention), and zero other attempts have been made by Blackberry to otherwise rename, redesign or respec the phone from what it was always originally designed and advertised to do.
    Its tongue in cheek.

    Posted via CB10
    09-11-14 04:39 AM
  16. spork141's Avatar
    LOL... confusion intended. I felt that the single sentence you quoted from my post didn't accurately reflect the point i was making in that post. lol

    My point in that previous post had NOthing to do with any conspiracies to "trick" BBOSers. IMO, the single biggest impediment for attracting legacy users into BB10 has little to do with the OS's themselves. Given BB10.3's maturity, HARDWARE is now the predominant impediment to that transition, IMO. WHY does transitioning to BB10 require loosing swappable batteries and other hardware features legacy users value? WHY is BB so resistant to including those hardware features in BB10 devices??
    It doesn't. There's still the z10 and the q10 which have swappable batteries. Don't want those because one doesn't have a toolbelt and one doesn't have a keyboard? Well the classic has those. But that doesn't have swappable batteries? TOO BAD LIFE ISNT ALWAYS PERFECT!

    (yes Steve I know you are getting a classic. It's not you I'm speaking to, its the mindset.)

    None of us work for blackberry so we don't know why they skipped on the battery. But we have to assume price was a big factor here. As someone who works in tech dev I have seen this issue cause my own company to make very hard decisions about the product we offer because of both tech constraints and budget. It doesn't make us stupid or care any less about our customers.

    It's called the classic because the toolbelt is back. That's it. The core UX is similar to the classic blackberry we all love(d). It doesn't mean that ever single little feature and nuance is back.

    Posted via CB10
    johnnyuk likes this.
    09-11-14 04:53 AM
  17. raph_ryo's Avatar
    Im relatively new to BB but i think the way the general public is unaware of BB10 is similar to how BB users/fans are unaware of OS7.1. Its a huge improvement. My 9300 was a daily nightmare on OS6. My 9720 is a delight. Its smooth, hardly freezes and i have honestly only done about 3 battery pulls since i got it a year ago. We all know BB has found it difficult to lower the price point of BB10 devices. If things really take off for BB or if they decide to compete with the Nokia Ashas and basic Samsungs Alcatels etc of this world; Potentially BBOS could be used in devices cheaper than the Z3 (say $50-150). This is nothing unusual for a mobile phone brand. Nokia uses its old Symbian OS for cheaper devices and Samsung has Rex. A cheap BB OS7 device with BIS would probably sell very well in developing markets and act as a stepping stone to BB10. Just like Nokia uses the Asha range as an introduction to the Lumia range.
    This also whats on my mind. I also think that BB should have separate two division which are high end smartphone and low end smartphone. Since BB mostly focus on smartphone compared to apple and google which have other kind of business.

    So BB should cater all kind of phone market as possible since they already declared they going niche.

    Btw im also 9720 user .

    Sorry for my broken english


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    09-11-14 07:22 AM
  18. raph_ryo's Avatar
    i am one of those bbos hold outs. when the q10 came out i was ready for an upgrade. all excited i headed to my carrier to see the latest and greatest available. when i saw the q10 i was like wow looks great but wait a min wheres the trackpad and keys? needless to say total disappointment and i did not upgrade i decided to use my os7 device until something better came along. for me its all about the physical call end/send buttons, now that there back with the classic i will def make the jump to bb10 no question
    Haha me too, when i tested q10 last time i found it weird that it didnt have call key. I dont want to search for phone app just to make a call especially when im doing something while trying to make a call at the same time.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    09-11-14 07:35 AM
  19. idssteve's Avatar
    Haha me too, when i tested q10 last time i found it weird that it didnt have call key. I dont want to search for phone app just to make a call especially when im doing something while trying to make a call at the same time.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Q20 has finally corrected that oversight.
    09-11-14 08:24 AM
  20. Loc22's Avatar
    Uh oh, the Curve 9380 and Torch 9860 felt weird for being all touch...but with the old physical toolbelt too. Felt odd to use and took some getting used to.

    The biggest human-computer interface quirk on those old phones was scrolling. On the screen you would move your finger UP the screen to scroll down a web page for example. But if you switched to using the trackpad you had to move your finger in the opposite direction, DOWN the trackpad to scroll down.

    It felt very unintuitive switching between the two so I hope they've tidied that up for the Classic!

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    Good point Johnny, I was just hoping if it might make it easier to navigate to links on the websites as links are usually very small & my fingers can't tap on the one I want unless I enlarge the screen.

    Posted via CB10
    09-11-14 11:22 AM
  21. Loc22's Avatar
    Somehow I don't think you quite got the tongue in cheek tone of my full comment.

    But having said that, I must add that as a BES Admin in an Enterprise who procures, configures and manages mobile devices for our employees to use I can assure you that when it comes to BlackBerrys in 2014 in the workplace nobody and I mean NOBODY has the faintest idea that BlackBerry phones have progressed any further than that creaking old Curve they once used in 2000-and-something-or-other. And they also are not the least bit interested in doing research for themselves to find out what BlackBerry phones are like today. BlackBerry is already dead to them, they think we still buy them because we get them dirt cheap from a liquidator after BlackBerry's bankruptcy, I kid you not!

    So, given that, when they hear that their employer is buying them a "BlackBerry Classic" what kind of phone and user experience do you think that conjours up their mind's eye?

    Discuss.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    I believe that most employees will be in total disbelieve & usually protest against the move to acquire any old BlackBerry mobile devices for the company. I'm sure that even if this agenda was pushed through, most of them would totally resist trying the device as well.

    They will just buy an Android device or an iPhone to use for work & leave the BlackBerry at home in the drawer. Those who have no choice but to use it would probably resist & try to find as many faults as possible with the device.

    Posted via CB10
    09-11-14 11:30 AM
  22. idssteve's Avatar
    Uh oh, the Curve 9380 and Torch 9860 felt weird for being all touch...but with the old physical toolbelt too. Felt odd to use and took some getting used to.

    The biggest human-computer interface quirk on those old phones was scrolling. On the screen you would move your finger UP the screen to scroll down a web page for example. But if you switched to using the trackpad you had to move your finger in the opposite direction, DOWN the trackpad to scroll down.

    It felt very unintuitive switching between the two so I hope they've tidied that up for the Classic!

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    They do work inverted from each other and i never used 9380 or 9860, but my 9900 touchscreen scrolls along with the finger and trackpad scrolls down for up like a PC mouse scroll wheel. Always felt the PC mouse wheel was un-intuitively backward but reversing that might add confusion??

    Edit: Naturally the curser/pointer moves same direction as thumb motion on the trackpad. Up/Down scroll starts once pointer gets to the full top/bottom of screen.

    Faster flick of thumb on trackpad speeds screen ahead with simulated inertia, just like quick finger on touchscreen.
    Last edited by idssteve; 09-11-14 at 12:01 PM.
    emanuel0ss0 likes this.
    09-11-14 11:31 AM
  23. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Well just to clarify, I think only having the Hub, like BB10 does, is a step backwards. Having both the optional account icons + the Hub in the form of Messages on legacy os is awesome and I can't believe that BlackBerry still hasn't added the option to add account icons on BB10 yet.

    All you BBOS holdouts - It's time to convert to the classic-img_20140911_143222.png

    You mean like this? I'm confused.

    Posted via CB10
    09-11-14 01:33 PM
  24. th.1977's Avatar
    They do work inverted from each other and i never used 9380 or 9860, but my 9900 touchscreen scrolls along with the finger and trackpad scrolls down for up like a PC mouse scroll wheel. Always felt the PC mouse wheel was un-intuitively backward but reversing that might add confusion??

    Edit: Naturally the curser/pointer moves same direction as thumb motion on the trackpad. Up/Down scroll starts once pointer gets to the full top/bottom of screen.

    Faster flick of thumb on trackpad speeds screen ahead with simulated inertia, just like quick finger on touchscreen.
    i would hate it if they started massing with trackball directions its perfect the way it is.
    09-11-14 01:34 PM
  25. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Good point Johnny, I was just hoping if it might make it easier to navigate to links on the websites as links are usually very small & my fingers can't tap on the one I want unless I enlarge the screen.

    Posted via CB10
    That was the advantage of having the trackpad when browsing on a 9380 and 9860 yes, just like every BBOS BlackBerry, and something that used to make other people go "oh that's handy!" lol.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    09-11-14 01:59 PM
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