10-24-14 10:24 AM
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  1. spork141's Avatar
    Well, anyone that's been around much surely realizes my support for toolbelt. I've done my part to push back against anti-toolbelt "trolls" in other threads. In the end, this is a Q20 forum. It should be oriented in support of genuine Q20 owners and future owners, IMO. Q20's Toolbelt will prove an invaluable asset even in a fixed battery device. We are exploring various strategies for mitigating the fixed battery issue. Never kno, my company is always open for exploring new markets?? Something smaller companies are well suited for. BB is certainly well equipped and positioned to leverage their potential agility afforded by their smaller organization.

    All said, to call the Q20 a replacement for legacy Bold's is a long stretch. BUT, it will be a modern BB10 device with a tool belt! A wonderful development in it's own right. A development that just might find market potential beyond us legacy users. Q20 will do OK, IMO.
    And just so you know, even though I dont think anyone "needs" a toolbelt, I'm pretty much excited to see it back. It's hard to argue less physical keys on a phone when most of us also argue the need for a physical keyboard. Can't wait to see what BlackBerry does with it.

    Posted via CB10
    09-09-14 07:12 PM
  2. th.1977's Avatar
    i am one of those bbos hold outs. when the q10 came out i was ready for an upgrade. all excited i headed to my carrier to see the latest and greatest available. when i saw the q10 i was like wow looks great but wait a min wheres the trackpad and keys? needless to say total disappointment and i did not upgrade i decided to use my os7 device until something better came along. for me its all about the physical call end/send buttons, now that there back with the classic i will def make the jump to bb10 no question
    Mr4aces likes this.
    09-09-14 07:19 PM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    And just so you know, even though I dont think anyone "needs" a toolbelt, I'm pretty much excited to see it back. It's hard to argue less physical keys on a phone when most of us also argue the need for a physical keyboard. Can't wait to see what BlackBerry does with it.

    Posted via CB10
    Well, i dont think anyone "needs" a touch screen so.... Don't get me started... "All i NEED is the air that i breathe..."
    Mr4aces likes this.
    09-09-14 07:34 PM
  4. idssteve's Avatar
    i am one of those bbos hold outs. when the q10 came out i was ready for an upgrade. all excited i headed to my carrier to see the latest and greatest available. when i saw the q10 i was like wow looks great but wait a min wheres the trackpad and keys? needless to say total disappointment and i did not upgrade i decided to use my os7 device until something better came along. for me its all about the physical call end/send buttons, now that there back with the classic i will def make the jump to bb10 no question
    Me2!! I think the mistake was calling it the "Classic". A term I mostly refuse to use. It's really more akin to a "hopped up" Q10 with toolbelt and that's pretty darn good in it's own right. I'd STILL be using my Q10 IF it had a toolbelt.

    The 20's fixed battery makes more sense if you realize they really weren't targeting legacy directly. As such, it can find a ready home in relatively predictable 9-5 service.
    Mr4aces likes this.
    09-09-14 07:41 PM
  5. meztek's Avatar
    So, I'm assuming that it's you that determines which is the "right side"?
    Quite insightful, the "right side" is an interesting argument in the tech world.

    What makes you think people are holding onto their BBOS phone for "some granular feature"?
    There are several things about my 9900 I would miss with a Classic (charging contacts, side button, etc), but it is also worthwhile to say I know I would be getting a lot of new features that I want about as much as the features I don't want to lose (separate lock/home screen pictures, larger display, not sure what else just yet). It is a trade-off.
    09-09-14 08:51 PM
  6. evodevo69's Avatar
    Well, i dont think anyone "needs" a touch screen so.... Don't get me started... "All i NEED is the air that i breathe..."
    People "need" a toolbelt as much as iPhone users say the "need" a home button when criticizing the Z10.

    For someone who does a lot of document editing or cutting and pasting, I can see how they "need" a trackpad - a physical end, call, back, and home button however, I fail to see how you "need" to have it when the overwhelming majority of the world's smartphone users use their phones to make and end calls just fine with touch screens.

    Yea don't bother bringing up how you can double tap a key to redial your last call or how you can press "end" without looking, or how it can "confirm" you've ended the call.

    Redialing, ending a call - I can do with a touchscreen, and although it might take more steps in some cases where your screen is locked, and you need to wake the phone to press "end", it's a pretty OCD thing to say you "need" to press a button to save literally a few seconds - and don't BS me about how these few seconds matter, you're not in a war or performing a surgery, you're making a phone call.





    #Q10 #Gold #LimitedEdition #CB10
    09-09-14 08:57 PM
  7. slagman5's Avatar
    People "need" a toolbelt as much as iPhone users say the "need" a home button when criticizing the Z10.

    For someone who does a lot of document editing or cutting and pasting, I can see how they "need" a trackpad - a physical end, call, back, and home button however, I fail to see how you "need" to have it when the overwhelming majority of the world's smartphone users use their phones to make and end calls just fine with touch screens.

    Yea don't bother bringing up how you can double tap a key to redial your last call or how you can press "end" without looking, or how it can "confirm" you've ended the call.

    Redialing, ending a call - I can do with a touchscreen, and although it might take more steps in some cases where your screen is locked, and you need to wake the phone to press "end", it's a pretty OCD thing to say you "need" to press a button to save literally a few seconds - and don't BS me about how these few seconds matter, you're not in a war or performing a surgery, you're making a phone call.





    #Q10 #Gold #LimitedEdition #CB10
    If you like to take more steps to do things. More power to you. :-)

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    09-09-14 09:08 PM
  8. spork141's Avatar
    i am one of those bbos hold outs. when the q10 came out i was ready for an upgrade. all excited i headed to my carrier to see the latest and greatest available. when i saw the q10 i was like wow looks great but wait a min wheres the trackpad and keys? needless to say total disappointment and i did not upgrade i decided to use my os7 device until something better came along. for me its all about the physical call end/send buttons, now that there back with the classic i will def make the jump to bb10 no question
    Bravo. That's all were asking. Let the toolbelt return end the divide.

    Posted via CB10
    09-09-14 09:58 PM
  9. idssteve's Avatar
    People "need" a toolbelt as much as iPhone users say the "need" a home button when criticizing the Z10.

    For someone who does a lot of document editing or cutting and pasting, I can see how they "need" a trackpad - a physical end, call, back, and home button however, I fail to see how you "need" to have it when the overwhelming majority of the world's smartphone users use their phones to make and end calls just fine with touch screens.

    Yea don't bother bringing up how you can double tap a key to redial your last call or how you can press "end" without looking, or how it can "confirm" you've ended the call.

    Redialing, ending a call - I can do with a touchscreen, and although it might take more steps in some cases where your screen is locked, and you need to wake the phone to press "end", it's a pretty OCD thing to say you "need" to press a button to save literally a few seconds - and don't BS me about how these few seconds matter, you're not in a war or performing a surgery, you're making a phone call.





    #Q10 #Gold #LimitedEdition #CB10
    You've obviously never worked in an intensely competitive environment. The BlackBerry I know is a working tool. Glass CAN do anything that keys and trackpad CAN do. The reverse is at least equally true. You find your way better for you, I, and 25 coworkers find our way better for us. My company's fiercest competitor is still using 9650s. Only after returning from our Zs & Qs back to 9900's could we recover our historic competitive edge in control cabinet terminal connection validation. Try editing 100+ spreadsheet cells per day on your Z. Then do it woth a single hand while tracing conductors with the other. Just for one example. Throw in dozens of calls, texts, emails. Including critical tasks like coordinating a new plant startup. Too noisy to talk. Single handed text rules. Battery dies half way into a 3 day startup and parts of the line will melt down while waiting on wall hugging fixed device batteries. BTDT! Or, how about the 38hr troubleshooting marathon a few weeks ago where my colleague on the other side of the globe had to resort to the plant's cordless landline because he couldn't get power into his Z30 out on the plant floor. (he since went back to his old Z10 for field work)

    I could go on but since you're the expert on MY needs what's the point? Who needs their device for WORK? There I go again, that awful four letter word.
    Mack Gans likes this.
    09-09-14 10:06 PM
  10. spork141's Avatar
    If you like to take more steps to do things. More power to you. :-)

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    I would say for most tasks the toolbelt and keyboard add a ton if more steps to almost everything. A tool belt in ADDITION to a touch screen is more options and that should be good. But in place of one? Sorry man you lose me there.

    Posted via CB10
    09-09-14 10:09 PM
  11. spork141's Avatar
    You've obviously never worked in an intensely competitive environment. The BlackBerry I know is a working tool. Glass CAN do anything that keys and trackpad CAN do. The reverse is at least equally true. You find your way better for you, I, and 25 coworkers find our way better for us. My company's fiercest competitor is still using 9650s. Only after returning from our Zs & Qs back to 9900's could we recover our historic competitive edge in control cabinet terminal connection validation. Try editing 100+ spreadsheet cells per day on your Z. Then do it woth a single hand while tracing conductors with the other. Just for one example. Throw in dozens of calls, texts, emails. Including critical tasks like coordinating a new plant startup. Too noisy to talk. Single handed text rules. Battery dies half way into a 3 day startup and parts of the line will melt down while waiting on wall hugging fixed device batteries. BTDT! Or, how about the 38hr troubleshooting marathon a few weeks ago where my colleague on the other side of the globe had to resort to the plant's cordless landline because he couldn't get power into his Z30 out on the plant floor. (he since went back to his old Z10 for field work)

    I could go on but since you're the expert on MY needs what's the point? Who needs their device for WORK? There I go again, that awful four letter word.
    Steve what the hell do you do anyway? Your life sounds like an action movie. I work in app development for a major retailer. Most of you would know us. Yes I have made an android and iPhone app. It works on glass. And I tested the android one on my z30

    Posted via CB10
    09-09-14 10:14 PM
  12. slagman5's Avatar
    I would say for most tasks the toolbelt and keyboard add a ton if more steps to almost everything. A tool belt in ADDITION to a touch screen is more options and that should be good. But in place of one? Sorry man you lose me there.

    Posted via CB10
    Who the f*** said anything about having a toolbelt in place of a touchscreen??? You confuse me by answering questions that were never asked...
    09-09-14 10:22 PM
  13. idssteve's Avatar
    Steve what the hell do you do anyway? Your life sounds like an action movie. I work in app development for a major retailer. Most of you would know us. Yes I have made an android and iPhone app. It works on glass. And I tested the android one on my z30

    Posted via CB10
    Never a dull day. Wouldn't have it any other way.
    09-09-14 10:25 PM
  14. spork141's Avatar
    Who the f*** said anything about having a toolbelt in place of a touchscreen??? You confuse me by answering questions that were never asked...
    You said if you like to take more steps to do things more power to you. You said it in defense of the toolbelt. And I'm saying using the toolbelt over a touch screen is almost more steps in every task I can think of. Assuming you couldn't use both

    PS chill out. Why you always such a hot head?

    Posted via CB10
    09-09-14 10:33 PM
  15. th.1977's Avatar
    I would say for most tasks the toolbelt and keyboard add a ton if more steps to almost everything. A tool belt in ADDITION to a touch screen is more options and that should be good. But in place of one? Sorry man you lose me there.

    Posted via CB10
    i disagree with this completely. for me buttons are way more efficient at completing just about any task, especially typing. dont even get me started about making calls, for some touch works great, for me not so much. yes it works, works great no way.
    09-09-14 11:48 PM
  16. jayemmbee's Avatar
    Lol as much I agree with the op, calling out the holdouts isn't going do anything or change anything, they will cling/clutch the BBOS

    Posted via CB10
    09-10-14 12:08 AM
  17. th.1977's Avatar
    Lol as much I agree with the op, calling out the holdouts isn't going do anything or change anything, they will cling/clutch the BBOS

    Posted via CB10
    while i agree that this thread isnt going to do anything for ppl's desire to make the jump to a bb10 device, i disagree that ppl that are holdouts are not going to upgrade.

    many holdouts are waiting for a toolbelt phone, i am one of them. That was all i wanted, i love the form factor of my os7 device and when the q10 came out it simply wasnt what i wanted. it wasnt that i was clinging to os7 it was simply that i prefer physical buttons, that's my personal preference and i wasn't about to upgrade because bby made a phone they wanted me to like. i was put off with the lack of the belt because that was the single biggest reason why i owned a blackberry.

    i have had touch devices before i owned my first curve. i remember getting an important call and not being able to answer because my phone was locked up sleeping and couldnt wake it up in time. since having a curve i havent had one issue not one. i answer a call everytime i want to, and hang up just as easy no more fking around for me.

    now that bby came to there senses and listened to there customers, we finally have a toolbelt phone coming,one i like and will gladly pay for. i know there are others that will do the same.
    idssteve and spork141 like this.
    09-10-14 01:55 AM
  18. spork141's Avatar
    while i agree that this thread isnt going to do anything for ppl's desire to make the jump to a bb10 device, i disagree that ppl that are holdouts are not going to upgrade.

    many holdouts are waiting for a toolbelt phone, i am one of them. That was all i wanted, i love the form factor of my os7 device and when the q10 came out it simply wasnt what i wanted. it wasnt that i was clinging to os7 it was simply that i prefer physical buttons, that's my personal preference and i wasn't about to upgrade because bby made a phone they wanted me to like. i was put off with the lack of the belt because that was the single biggest reason why i owned a blackberry.

    i have had touch devices before i owned my first curve. i remember getting an important call and not being able to answer because my phone was locked up sleeping and couldnt wake it up in time. since having a curve i havent had one issue not one. i answer a call everytime i want to, and hang up just as easy no more fking around for me.

    now that bby came to there senses and listened to there customers, we finally have a toolbelt phone coming,one i like and will gladly pay for. i know there are others that will do the same.
    Yup that's all were saying. The toolbelt was a passionate debate but it's behind us now. So let's move fwd bbosers. Hopefully the rest of the features come soon enough.

    Posted via CB10
    09-10-14 06:25 AM
  19. spork141's Avatar
    i disagree with this completely. for me buttons are way more efficient at completing just about any task, especially typing. dont even get me started about making calls, for some touch works great, for me not so much. yes it works, works great no way.
    I know they are more efficient. Just saying it's not less steps than glass. For glass you see what you want and you tap it. Buttons you need to use one or more buttons to scroll and select etc. Better precision for some things. Just more steps

    Posted via CB10
    09-10-14 06:27 AM
  20. th.1977's Avatar
    I know they are more efficient. Just saying it's not less steps than glass. For glass you see what you want and you tap it. Buttons you need to use one or more buttons to scroll and select etc. Better precision for some things. Just more steps
    Posted via CB10
    ahh ic funny how ppl look at things differently lol i was thinking about making a call with physical buttons just dial and press send while touch open call app,dial, press send. extra step there as well. i would use the touch feature for app selection anyway btw.

    the classic as the q10 and 9900 all have touchcreen so its the best of both worlds. man i cant wait for this phone to arrive. its been a long time coming.
    idssteve and spork141 like this.
    09-10-14 08:08 AM
  21. slagman5's Avatar
    You said if you like to take more steps to do things more power to you. You said it in defense of the toolbelt. And I'm saying using the toolbelt over a touch screen is almost more steps in every task I can think of. Assuming you couldn't use both

    PS chill out. Why you always such a hot head?

    Posted via CB10
    Um, it's in defense of HAVING a toolbelt. Is there some stipulation somewhere that you can't add features only replace them?? The old legacy Bold 9900 had both a touchscreen and a toolbelt just like the Classic will have. And in fact, in terms of what the person was talking about I was replying to, all of those things could be done with the toolbelt alone and in much fewer steps. To call someone back (last contact who you spoke to) you simply press the call button twice. Never do you need to touch the touchscreen even though it's still there. Rather than launching the phone app, navigating to the call log (if you navigated away from it before) and then touching the person you want to call. When you're done with a call, whether the screen is on, off, whether you're navigated away from the phone app, speakerphone or not, you press the end call button and it ends the call, no exceptions. Again, the touchscreen is still there, you're not replacing anything, but instead of having to wake up your screen, navigate back to the phone app, the touching the end call icon, you simply press one button.

    So, never did I make any mention about replacing the touchscreen with the toolbelt, but since you decided to go to somewhere irrelevant (as usual) I decided to humor you anyway...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    09-10-14 11:18 AM
  22. Paz7's Avatar
    As I've said time and time again....whether anyone likes it or not, the Bold 9790 and Bold 9900 were pretty much their most successful devices ever. And *finally* there seems to be a 9900 replacement after literally years....and still no logical 9790 upgrade available till date. Still rocking my 9790 and wow am I frustrated!
    09-10-14 11:52 AM
  23. Q10Bold's Avatar
    To all- there is a way to use all devices


    Ok so I gonna take a Classic and Passport. But my Q10 will be my personal device.
    The classic for work hours and Q10 for free time. I've got a clone SIM(TMobile) so 2 SIMs with 1 phonenumber
    The Passport is gonna have my Private Phonenumber(also TMo) + Email machine over Wifi in my office to pair the passport I gonna use my 2nd option for the clone SIM and use my 2nd Q10 for my private phone as well.
    That way I will have the new Classic + Passport and gonna still use my lovely Q10s. Yeahhh
    Another option- I have a company in another country so maybe one Q10 will have Tmobile PL inside (my company/production is in Poland and Ive got a PL number too )

    Ohh I still dont like the removable battery options but hey- BlackBerry must survive.

    Posted via Q10Bold
    09-10-14 02:44 PM
  24. johnnyuk's Avatar
    The Q20 belatedly corrects that handicap only to take away the swappable battery. WHY?? What legacy users REQUESTED to get rid of the Q's swappable battery? Again, BBRY ignored legacy users and listened to iPhone lovers, IMO. Has ANYone at BBRY EVER used a 9900??? ??
    The 9900 that has such a pathetic battery life that is HAS to be swappable to make it through a day? Give me a battery that lasts a full working day and then on til midnight any day of the week over that. Mobile external power sources are the future for those who need more.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    jayemmbee likes this.
    09-10-14 02:45 PM
  25. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Me2!! I think the mistake was calling it the "Classic". A term I mostly refuse to use.
    That's to trick old school BBOS users in to buying it thinking they're getting BBOS 8.

    Then they take their first tentative steps with it and discover that, OH NO! It doesn't render my phone almost unusable and force me to reboot the phone when installing or uninstalling apps.

    And OH NO! It doesn't force me to rummage through my pockets for my other battery and look like I just walked out of 2005 in public by cunningly lasting a full day on one charge.

    And OH NO! It doesn't randomly lock up just when I need it and show me the spinning clock of lag until it's ready to allow me to "get things done".

    And OH NO! It doesn't slow down my web browsing experience by taking an eternity to resolve URLs to IP addresses through the NOC and start loading the page.

    And OH NO! It supports multiple core processors and huge amounts of RAM so it can work with enormous amounts of data with processing power still to spare allowing me to multitask in a modern and efficient way.

    And OH NO! It supports ActiveSync allowing me to add multiple work mailboxes so I can BYOD in a modern and efficient way.

    And OH NO! It gives me easy access to my work network drives and Intranet when on BES10 so my documents are just a few taps away wherever I am and not stored in a leaky Cloud.

    And OH NO! It doesn't reduce my phone to a stuttering unusable crawl when over-the-air OS upgrades are downloaded and installed while I need to keep using my phone to stay in touch with the world.

    And OH NO! It runs most Android apps opening up my digital world to things my old BlackBerry could never dream of doing!

    They'll definitely return it in bitter disappointment.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3
    09-10-14 03:28 PM
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