[johnnyuk]

I believe that most employees will be in total disbelieve & usually protest against the move to acquire any old BlackBerry mobile devices for the company. I'm sure that even if this agenda was pushed through, most of them would totally resist trying the device as well.

They will just buy an Android device or an iPhone to use for work & leave the BlackBerry at home in the drawer. Those who have no choice but to use it would probably resist & try to find as many faults as possible with the device.

Posted via CB10

I'm pleased to report that while many people have the initial prejudices that we have both touched upon, after having actually used BB10 phones for a few days 99% of those users in my workplace ending up liking the phones; how they work and what they can do for them that iPhones and Android phones can't (so easily/securely).

It's the most positive thing I've learned from rolling out BB10 phones, when people actually try them instead of dismissing them outright they are almost always totally converted to admitting that they are good work phones! Some of my users have said I'm they are the best work phone they've ever used due to the ease of access to work documents on the move.

It reinforces in my mind that most of the damage to the BlackBerry brand had already been done by BlackBerry persisting with BBOS for too long before replacing the OS with something modern. That turned people, certainly in the western markets, completely off the company's phones by 2012 to the point that when BB10 launched in 2013 almost nobody was interested in even giving it a try.

If you're trying to sell a phone in a shop the customer has to at least be willing to pick it up and try it out to stand a chance of a sale. That desire had already been to drained out of the consumer after years of BBOS phones that over promised and under delivered on just about everything other than messaging and security, two things which were no longer "killer apps" - apps themselves had become the "killer app"!

Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3

[idssteve]

I'm pleased to report that while many people have the initial prejudices that we have both touched upon, after having actually used BB10 phones for a few days 99% of those users in my workplace ending up liking the phones; how they work and what they can do for them that iPhones and Android phones can't (so easily/securely).

It's the most positive thing I've learned from rolling out BB10 phones, when people actually try them instead of dismissing them outright they are almost always totally converted to admitting that they are good work phones! Some of my users have said I'm they are the best work phone they've ever used due to the ease of access to work documents on the move.

It reinforces in my mind that most of the damage to the BlackBerry brand had already been done by BlackBerry persisting with BBOS for too long before replacing the OS with something modern. That turned people, certainly in the western markets, completely off the company's phones by 2012 to the point that when BB10 launched in 2013 almost nobody was interested in even giving it a try.

If you're trying to sell a phone in a shop the customer has to at least be willing to pick it up and try it out to stand a chance of a sale. That desire had already been to drained out of the consumer after years of BBOS phones that over promised and under delivered on just about everything other than messaging and security, two things which were no longer "killer apps" - apps themselves had become the "killer app"!

Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3

Agree with most of that. Dragging BBOS past it's time was an unfortunate necessity created by belated BB10 development. BBOS was so old for for so long because, until lately, BB10 wasn't ready to replace it. That condition is now mostly corrected and BBOS's days are finally numbered. I've been sensing some dissatisfaction with Appledroid. A significant vendor of ours has committed to transitioning to Q20's after working closely with my team on a couple projects. Our old 99's impressed them enough to sell that company on Q20's sight unseen! Other clients and vendors are also expressing interest. Maybe i should pursue sales commissions... Point is, exposure to productive BB users can generate sales.

[evodevo69]

If you like to take more steps to do things. More power to you. :-)

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Never said I "like" to take more steps to do things, my point was that I can get things done, with enough time with a adevice, efficiently as possible with a given interface - be it a touch screen or a toolbelt. In other words - it isn't a deal-breaker, I'm not going to not use a phone, if it offers everything one could ever want in a modern phone, just because I can't press buttons to make and end calls.

Of course between the two - I enjoy physical keys more, and the call and end keys are no different - but to hold back from using say a Q10 because of that, to me, in my opinion, is being really anal or just stuck in your ways.


#CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse

[evodevo69]

You've obviously never worked in an intensely competitive environment. The BlackBerry I know is a working tool. Glass CAN do anything that keys and trackpad CAN do. The reverse is at least equally true. You find your way better for you, I, and 25 coworkers find our way better for us. My company's fiercest competitor is still using 9650s. Only after returning from our Zs & Qs back to 9900's could we recover our historic competitive edge in control cabinet terminal connection validation. Try editing 100+ spreadsheet cells per day on your Z. Then do it woth a single hand while tracing conductors with the other. Just for one example. Throw in dozens of calls, texts, emails. Including critical tasks like coordinating a new plant startup. Too noisy to talk. Single handed text rules. Battery dies half way into a 3 day startup and parts of the line will melt down while waiting on wall hugging fixed device batteries. BTDT! Or, how about the 38hr troubleshooting marathon a few weeks ago where my colleague on the other side of the globe had to resort to the plant's cordless landline because he couldn't get power into his Z30 out on the plant floor. (he since went back to his old Z10 for field work)

I could go on but since you're the expert on MY needs what's the point? Who needs their device for WORK? There I go again, that awful four letter word.

Never said you could edit spreadsheets well on touch-screens - I recognize the utility of the trackpad for that.

Now for the battery - I'd rather have a battery that lasts me a full day than to have to carry around a spare battery bundle.

I constantly bring mine around now with my bold, didn't have to with my Q10 or Z30.

Your work sounds exciting - but I don't believe that you or your friend really work 72 hours straight without sleeping (ie. With no down time where you can charge your phone).

Only people I know who do are surgeons and they don't need their phones during surgery.

I'll stick by this - if my phone can last 24 hours, I don't NEED to carry around more batteries, which is a hassle. My usage pattern would be to charge the phone during downtime, for most people that's during sleep, and then when you start your day - it's full. The Z30 and Q10 will last you till your next down-time, repeat cycle.

Old BlackBerry's didn't do this, iphones couldn't do this - people are used to their phones dying in the middle of work, I get it - it's an old behavior but saying you won't buy a passport or a classic because it doesn't have a removable battery is asinine.

Your work sounds like it's the type where you make calls and text too - your not watching youtube or playing games right? Even more reason to believe the battery will last MORE than you can stay at work.

#CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse

[jayemmbee]

Haha me too, when i tested q10 last time i found it weird that it didnt have call key. I dont want to search for phone app just to make a call especially when im doing something while trying to make a call at the same time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What are you talking about search for phone app? It's right on the bottom of the screen at all times, where it would be if it were physical button, as soon as u hit the app icons screen it's right there, always there. How can you miss it? You couldn't if you tried

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

Never said I "like" to take more steps to do things, my point was that I can get things done, with enough time with a adevice, efficiently as possible with a given interface - be it a touch screen or a toolbelt. In other words - it isn't a deal-breaker, I'm not going to not use a phone, if it offers everything one could ever want in a modern phone, just because I can't press buttons to make and end calls.

Of course between the two - I enjoy physical keys more, and the call and end keys are no different - but to hold back from using say a Q10 because of that, to me, in my opinion, is being really anal or just stuck in your ways.


#CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse

Well, there are times when "anal" is necessary. We joked off the soft end failures for almost a year. 9 months with the Z and 3 months with the Q. 26 devices, dozens of calls per day per device, 24/7 availability, eventually stacked the odds high enough to cost us a valued client. I've posted on this elsewhere so wont detail here but long story short, that client continued listening after one of my teem failed to get the call properly disconnected on her Q. His justifiable concern was that one of his competitors, also our client, might have too easily listened in on our office processing his project.

I, for one, believe that the soft "end" might pose confidentiality issues for various legal, medical, etc professions as well as engineering. Confidentiality issues that have not been adequately considered, IMO. We haven't had a single failure to "end" since transitioning back to 99s six months ago. My Q is relegated to mostly back up service these days. We'd still be using them if they had toolbelt or if a physical key shortcut could have been implemented. The new Q20's toolbelt should provide a WELCOME solution.

[idssteve]

Never said you could edit spreadsheets well on touch-screens - I recognize the utility of the trackpad for that.

Now for the battery - I'd rather have a battery that lasts me a full day than to have to carry around a spare battery bundle.

I constantly bring mine around now with my bold, didn't have to with my Q10 or Z30.

Your work sounds exciting - but I don't believe that you or your friend really work 72 hours straight without sleeping (ie. With no down time where you can charge your phone).

Only people I know who do are surgeons and they don't need their phones during surgery.

I'll stick by this - if my phone can last 24 hours, I don't NEED to carry around more batteries, which is a hassle. My usage pattern would be to charge the phone during downtime, for most people that's during sleep, and then when you start your day - it's full. The Z30 and Q10 will last you till your next down-time, repeat cycle.

Old BlackBerry's didn't do this, iphones couldn't do this - people are used to their phones dying in the middle of work, I get it - it's an old behavior but saying you won't buy a passport or a classic because it doesn't have a removable battery is asinine.

Your work sounds like it's the type where you make calls and text too - your not watching youtube or playing games right? Even more reason to believe the battery will last MORE than you can stay at work.

#CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse

Yes, during that marathon we took many breaks and "power naps". Usually while i'm searching through prints or while he's tracing and trying. Downtime was costing this plant about several $K per hr so getting much sleep was a poor option. His Z30 held up admirably for about 12 hrs but it never recovered during the brief breaks for more than an hr of use at a time from there on. No clue what the charge state of his 30 was before he called me. He wound up using it mostly for text and photos and used the plant's cordless land line for voice. It was a Uniden of some kind that utilized swappable battery, interestingly. Depending on usage and signal, the 3600ma aftermarket battery i use in my 99 easily holds up 3+ days at a shot but i still carry a spare. I burned through two of the those large batts and a few oems during that marathon. Flashlight use in the under-lighted document room burned up battery pretty quickly. Rarely a clue when these marathons might start. More than a few times about 5 minutes after climbing in bed. Batt swap returns device to 100% in five minutes.

I realize we aren't 99% of users but lack of replaceable battery is a significant handicap for us. Lack of physical "end" key has proven to be an even costlier handicap for us so... Q20 "Classic" physical "end" key is my trump card to keep management in BlackBerry despite the fixed batt handicap.

[evodevo69]

Well, there are times when "anal" is necessary. We joked off the soft end failures for almost a year. 9 months with the Z and 3 months with the Q. 26 devices, dozens of calls per day per device, 24/7 availability, eventually stacked the odds high enough to cost us a valued client. I've posted on this elsewhere so wont detail here but long story short, that client continued listening after one of my teem failed to get the call properly disconnected on her Q. His justifiable concern was that one of his competitors, also our client, might have too easily listened in on our office processing his project.

I, for one, believe that the soft "end" might pose confidentiality issues for various legal, medical, etc professions as well as engineering. Confidentiality issues that have not been adequately considered, IMO. We haven't had a single failure to "end" since transitioning back to 99s six months ago. My Q is relegated to mostly back up service these days. We'd still be using them if they had toolbelt or if a physical key shortcut could have been implemented. The new Q20's toolbelt should provide a WELCOME solution.

Only way to confirm call has ended is to push the end button, and verify by looking and listening - you can just as easily press the end call button and it may malfunction.

#CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse

[evodevo69]

Haha me too, when i tested q10 last time i found it weird that it didnt have call key. I dont want to search for phone app just to make a call especially when im doing something while trying to make a call at the same time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Funny, I thought you'd still have to press the call button - then LOOK for the number or contact you want to call, select, then call.

But oh wait I forgot - you bbos people became so efficient with your phones you do everything with your eyes closed and telepathically - press the call button once and it'll automatically call the person you are thinking about with your mind!

#CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse

[idssteve]

Only way to confirm call has ended is to push the end button, and verify by looking and listening - you can just as easily press the end call button and it may malfunction.

#CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse

True, anything can fail anytime. Obviously, user error was identified as root cause. Device configuration was identified as contributing to that error. Statistical odds are demonstrably in favor of physical key end, in our experience.

[idssteve]

Funny, I thought you'd still have to press the call button - then LOOK for the number or contact you want to call, select, then call.

But oh wait I forgot - you bbos people became so efficient with your phones you do everything with your eyes closed and telepathically - press the call button once and it'll automatically call the person you are thinking about with your mind!

#CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse

LOL, well, almost... I have the most used # programed to "P" speed dial. P is easily found by feel. Press and hold P while extracting the device from holster and put to ear. Never remove eyes from terminal block and right hand stays on wire keeping label turned to see. Press end multiple times (just to be "anal" ) while returning device to holster. Many times per day. The "teet" on "5" is also easily found.

How did you know we're developing telepathic tech? LOL

[johnnyuk]

His Z30 held up admirably for about 12 hrs but it never recovered during the brief breaks for more than an hr of use at a time from there on.

I have a rule for my users, only ever use the high amperage PlayBook chargers with the yellow USB plugs for charging BlackBerrys. The supplied chargers are far too weedy for workplace demands.

Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3

[AllanQuatermain]

I still use a 9900 so I must be a BBOS holdout, looking at the Classic non removable battery
And no charging dock contacts both useful features, and build quality? 9900 still as new
After three years, never let me down yet a brilliant work device, if something works
Why change it, and the replaceable battery question, it will usually fail before the phone,
and why throw it out when battery is dead?, I still have my old Nokia E series keyboard
Phone 2007 a new battery and its working again, the same with 9900,
There will be Legacy Bolds around for sometime yet, sorry BlackBerry they aren't
going crawl into a corner and die gracefully.

[idssteve]

I have a rule for my users, only ever use the high amperage PlayBook chargers with the yellow USB plugs for charging BlackBerrys. The supplied chargers are far too weedy for workplace demands.

Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3247 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.3

YES! +100 Playbook charger is a beast!!

Here's a scary fast charging solution our field service division uses in their trucks. Cradle charges through charging pads, provides 3w signal boost and hands free functions. External speaker mounted outside provides message alerts while personnel are working in remote low signal outdoor conditions. Like substations, etc. Device gets a little warm when charging but no detriment to battery life has been observed, tho.

Edit: Q20 "Classic" bottom mUSB port should provide interesting possibilities for similar cradles.

[KermEd]

I can't see how so many legacy users feel ignored when John Chen brought back both the trackpad and keyboard shortcuts AND continues to make qwerty phones.
Posted via CB10

Ah no. Chen didn't have anything to do with those decisions, those were made before he got there.

He did try desperately to sell the company - even in pieces - to earn a bonus. But when that failed he fired a bunch of people and killed a bunch of programs. And now he's turning it into an Android device.

Posted via CB from my LE

[idssteve]

I still use a 9900 so I must be a BBOS holdout, looking at the Classic non removable battery
And no charging dock contacts both useful features, and build quality? 9900 still as new
After three years, never let me down yet a brilliant work device, if something works
Why change it, and the replaceable battery question, it will usually fail before the phone,
and why throw it out when battery is dead?, I still have my old Nokia E series keyboard
Phone 2007 a new battery and its working again, the same with 9900,
There will be Legacy Bolds around for sometime yet, sorry BlackBerry they aren't
going crawl into a corner and die gracefully.

Yeah, i'm a BBOS holdout mostly because BB10, and it's hardware, hasn't yet adequately replaced BBOS. Several months to November yet. Time is closing in on our beloved 99s but there's still some life in them. BB's recent 9900 re-release likely means a couple years worth of life, sort of anyway. Unless OS7 browser gets some kind of upgrade (unlikely??) it's usefulness will gradually decline. Amazingly, the single most BBOS unfriendly website i frequent is CrackBerry itself. Not sure what that says but... ??

I think the whole purpose of this thread is to point out that BBRY itself is barely in the device business and unless Q20 "Classic" sales prove worthy of BBRY's efforts, this might be our last chance at a new toolbelt device. For a long time, if not ever. I'm not in to corporate charity but on a strictly self serving level, support for the new Q, including purchases, increases BBRY's chance of staying in the business long enough to someday get the device some of us really want. Top end spec, BB10 B99... some distant day. On a more self serving level, owning a Q20 "Classic" might continue to provide a functional toolbelt device if BB does evaporate over the next couple years. Not sure what implications such an evaporation might mean for BIS??

For the foreseeable future, they'll pry my 99 "from my cold dead hand" but i'll be buying a Q20, keeping 99 as backup and feel that the Q20 "Classic" is a rational bet on a not distant enough future. Its no 9900, and each individual must evaluate their own preferences, but the Q20 "Classic" really should provide impressively useful service for MANY.

[Denvertorch]

I owned one BB in my life. It was (as the name suggests) a Torch 9800. It was an awful experience. I went through about 5 phones in the first year, because it kept crashing and wouldn't recover. There were other problems after the one-year warranty expired too numerous to mention, but I ended up ditching the phone for Skype—yes Skype—on a tablet until my two-year contract expired.

But I am tempted to buy the Classic. (Specifically a huge fan of the physical keyboard. Also encouraged by the Amazon Appstore.) But I have this nagging feeling that I'm going to regret it. The biggest things that concern me are:

1. The long boot time—especially after crashes. From what I understand, this is still an issue on BB devices. I've never had a single boot issue on my Android and only a few on my iPad. I don't understand why this is still an issue with BB.

2. The inability to use BB features once I'm no longer on contract. This was another issue I had with the Torch. If you have an Android or Apple phone, those guys want you to continue to use the device after the contract expires. They're smart enough to understand that parents give old devices to their kids, who want to buy movies and games. BB restricted my access to everything besides the web browser once my contract was done. (Not that I cared with the Torch. But I'd want to be able to continue to use the Classic even after my contract's up.) To me, this seems like another short-sighted, arrogant BB decision. They assume customers will be more likely to buy a new BB phone, without thinking that customers would actually give the old phone to their kids, which as I mentioned would actually be great for BB. Or without thinking that customers would go buy an Android or iPhone—phones that have a higher resale value.

3. Massive price drops not long after the phone is released. I haven't followed BB recently well enough to know specifics, but I do know that their phones have dropped significantly not too long after release. I understand that companies do this when phone sales are weak, but we already know that all BB phone sales are probably going to be weak. So why not just release them with the heavy subsidies instead of waiting for sales to wane before doing so? It's only incentivizes potential buyers to wait, at which point they might move on to another phone.

4. I was also shocked by the lack of apps on my Torch. I was under the assumption that Skype was one of the few available apps, but suddenly that wasn't an option either. I know things have improved, especially with Amazon and side-loading capabilities. But for me it's more the concern of BB's future, given their recent decision to scale back emphasis on hardware. I wonder where BB (the phone maker) will be next year. What if they discontinue phone sales altogether the way Nike did with the Fuelband?

5. Probably the biggest thing that got to me was the way BB handled (and still handles?) OS updates. On my Torch, OS updates were not an option once a new version was released. I could not believe this. Apple and Android continue to update most phones for pretty much as long as the hardware allows. BB, it seems to me (based on my limited experience and familiarity with them), once again made the short-sighted decision to limit a new version of their OS to mostly new phones, specifically because they believed customers would just go out and get a new BB phone with the new OS version. Not thinking that people wanted to make their phones last as long as possible. I'm afraid that I'm going to get the Classic and won't get the newest OS updates even when the phone has the capability to run it.

I also don't understand why Blackberry wouldn't partner with a company (and companies) like Republic Wireless, which is essentially a no-contract plan that modifies Moto phones to run on wifi instead of cell when available. Customers have to pay around $300 upfront for a Moto X (partially subsidized by Republic) and then have several low budget plan options. This would seem to be a great fit for BB, especially since Republic customers have to pay about 75% of the unlocked phone price.

[idssteve]

I owned one BB in my life. It was (as the name suggests) a Torch 9800. It was an awful experience. I went through about 5 phones in the first year, because it kept crashing and wouldn't recover. There were other problems after the one-year warranty expired too numerous to mention, but I ended up ditching the phone for Skype—yes Skype—on a tablet until my two-year contract expired.

But I am tempted to buy the Classic. (Specifically a huge fan of the physical keyboard. Also encouraged by the Amazon Appstore.) But I have this nagging feeling that I'm going to regret it. The biggest things that concern me are:

1. The long boot time—especially after crashes. From what I understand, this is still an issue on BB devices. I've never had a single boot issue on my Android and only a few on my iPad. I don't understand why this is still an issue with BB.

2. The inability to use BB features once I'm no longer on contract. This was another issue I had with the Torch. If you have an Android or Apple phone, those guys want you to continue to use the device after the contract expires. They're smart enough to understand that parents give old devices to their kids, who want to buy movies and games. BB restricted my access to everything besides the web browser once my contract was done. (Not that I cared with the Torch. But I'd want to be able to continue to use the Classic even after my contract's up.) To me, this seems like another short-sighted, arrogant BB decision. They assume customers will be more likely to buy a new BB phone, without thinking that customers would actually give the old phone to their kids, which as I mentioned would actually be great for BB. Or without thinking that customers would go buy an Android or iPhone—phones that have a higher resale value.

3. Massive price drops not long after the phone is released. I haven't followed BB recently well enough to know specifics, but I do know that their phones have dropped significantly not too long after release. I understand that companies do this when phone sales are weak, but we already know that all BB phone sales are probably going to be weak. So why not just release them with the heavy subsidies instead of waiting for sales to wane before doing so? It's only incentivizes potential buyers to wait, at which point they might move on to another phone.

4. I was also shocked by the lack of apps on my Torch. I was under the assumption that Skype was one of the few available apps, but suddenly that wasn't an option either. I know things have improved, especially with Amazon and side-loading capabilities. But for me it's more the concern of BB's future, given their recent decision to scale back emphasis on hardware. I wonder where BB (the phone maker) will be next year. What if they discontinue phone sales altogether the way Nike did with the Fuelband?

5. Probably the biggest thing that got to me was the way BB handled (and still handles?) OS updates. On my Torch, OS updates were not an option once a new version was released. I could not believe this. Apple and Android continue to update most phones for pretty much as long as the hardware allows. BB, it seems to me (based on my limited experience and familiarity with them), once again made the short-sighted decision to limit a new version of their OS to mostly new phones, specifically because they believed customers would just go out and get a new BB phone with the new OS version. Not thinking that people wanted to make their phones last as long as possible. I'm afraid that I'm going to get the Classic and won't get the newest OS updates even when the phone has the capability to run it.

I also don't understand why Blackberry wouldn't partner with a company (and companies) like Republic Wireless, which is essentially a no-contract plan that modifies Moto phones to run on wifi instead of cell when available. Customers have to pay around $300 upfront for a Moto X (partially subsidized by Republic) and then have several low budget plan options. This would seem to be a great fit for BB, especially since Republic customers have to pay about 75% of the unlocked phone price.

That's a pretty thorough question. I'm sure someone with more time can help with your details but, in short, unlike your Torch experience, modern BB10 devices are superbly reliable, imo. Some of us love the older BBOS for various reasons but modern BB10 is very solid and definitely the OS of the future. The Q20 "Classic" is expected to utilize processor and ram specs from the Z30, which is still BB's flagship, until the PassPort at least. With those numbers, "Classic" should be well future proofed. Combined with one of the best keyboards and also the only modern toolbelt, it promises to provide an extraordinarily productive experience. Good luck!

[slagman5]

I owned one BB in my life. It was (as the name suggests) a Torch 9800. It was an awful experience. I went through about 5 phones in the first year, because it kept crashing and wouldn't recover. There were other problems after the one-year warranty expired too numerous to mention, but I ended up ditching the phone for Skype�yes Skype�on a tablet until my two-year contract expired.

But I am tempted to buy the Classic. (Specifically a huge fan of the physical keyboard. Also encouraged by the Amazon Appstore.) But I have this nagging feeling that I'm going to regret it. The biggest things that concern me are:

1. The long boot time�especially after crashes. From what I understand, this is still an issue on BB devices. I've never had a single boot issue on my Android and only a few on my iPad. I don't understand why this is still an issue with BB.

2. The inability to use BB features once I'm no longer on contract. This was another issue I had with the Torch. If you have an Android or Apple phone, those guys want you to continue to use the device after the contract expires. They're smart enough to understand that parents give old devices to their kids, who want to buy movies and games. BB restricted my access to everything besides the web browser once my contract was done. (Not that I cared with the Torch. But I'd want to be able to continue to use the Classic even after my contract's up.) To me, this seems like another short-sighted, arrogant BB decision. They assume customers will be more likely to buy a new BB phone, without thinking that customers would actually give the old phone to their kids, which as I mentioned would actually be great for BB. Or without thinking that customers would go buy an Android or iPhone�phones that have a higher resale value.

3. Massive price drops not long after the phone is released. I haven't followed BB recently well enough to know specifics, but I do know that their phones have dropped significantly not too long after release. I understand that companies do this when phone sales are weak, but we already know that all BB phone sales are probably going to be weak. So why not just release them with the heavy subsidies instead of waiting for sales to wane before doing so? It's only incentivizes potential buyers to wait, at which point they might move on to another phone.

4. I was also shocked by the lack of apps on my Torch. I was under the assumption that Skype was one of the few available apps, but suddenly that wasn't an option either. I know things have improved, especially with Amazon and side-loading capabilities. But for me it's more the concern of BB's future, given their recent decision to scale back emphasis on hardware. I wonder where BB (the phone maker) will be next year. What if they discontinue phone sales altogether the way Nike did with the Fuelband?

5. Probably the biggest thing that got to me was the way BB handled (and still handles?) OS updates. On my Torch, OS updates were not an option once a new version was released. I could not believe this. Apple and Android continue to update most phones for pretty much as long as the hardware allows. BB, it seems to me (based on my limited experience and familiarity with them), once again made the short-sighted decision to limit a new version of their OS to mostly new phones, specifically because they believed customers would just go out and get a new BB phone with the new OS version. Not thinking that people wanted to make their phones last as long as possible. I'm afraid that I'm going to get the Classic and won't get the newest OS updates even when the phone has the capability to run it.

I also don't understand why Blackberry wouldn't partner with a company (and companies) like Republic Wireless, which is essentially a no-contract plan that modifies Moto phones to run on wifi instead of cell when available. Customers have to pay around $300 upfront for a Moto X (partially subsidized by Republic) and then have several low budget plan options. This would seem to be a great fit for BB, especially since Republic customers have to pay about 75% of the unlocked phone price.

1. The boot time still sucks, but my Q10 hasn't crashed once. Same with my mom's Z10. BB10 is a completely new OS. Don't assume any qualities of the old BBOS applies.

2. What contract?? You sign a contract with your carrier, not BB. But I think maybe your problem stemmed from the old devices' reliance on BIS. All data going to and from your phone has to go through BB as a filter, it almost acts as a proxy. So when you stop paying your carrier (that in turn paid BB for the BIS subscription), you lose access to BIS. That's no longer the case. BIS is phased out and only still exists for the legacy devices. Any new BB10 will work on any plan as long as the network is supported (locked device or unlocked).

3. The cost of the phone really should be irrelevant to your buying decision. You should buy what phone you think you would enjoy. If you really care about the price going down, wait for it to go down, then buy it. That's your choice...

4. Skype is on BB10, but honestly, the quality sucks. And not just on BB10, it just does, across all platforms. BBM video chat is so much better, but oh well. Skype it is...

5. OS updates are handled by your carrier. And since I've gotten the Q10, I went from 10.1 to 10.2 to 10.2.1 and many maintenance updates in between. So I don't really see that "updates only with new devices problem" and don't really remember that being an issue even when I had my old legacy devices. But I could be have forgotten or not noticed...

6. I don't know anything about prepaid whatever plans. I have AT&T and has been with them for over 10 years and enjoy their excellent coverage, so I never looked elsewhere... My mom's Z10 is running on a prepaid plan, Ultra Mobile that runs off the T-Mobile network and hasn't had an issue with it...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[ChainPunch]

At the end of the day people are only going to spend their money on what they feel comfortable with regardless of other people views. I believe that there will still be BBOS users even after the end of support for BBOS, so I am not interested in telling people that they need to move on from BBOS devices just to provide money to blackberry on a device that may or may not provide what they are looking for.

In the end is up to Blackberry to provide a product that makes people want to spend their hard earn cash on a nice new BB10 device.

[riss89]

Aaaalllllllll those people who have been griping and complaining about not having a toolbelt and it's accompanying buttons on a BB10 phone, and citing that as the reason they're still on BBOS... best be gettin ready to switch. BlackBerry and John Chen, CEO.. they made a device just for you. Don't let it all be for nothing lol. Seriously though.

+-keystroke queen-+

[Loc22]

I owned one BB in my life. It was (as the name suggests) a Torch 9800. It was an awful experience. I went through about 5 phones in the first year, because it kept crashing and wouldn't recover. There were other problems after the one-year warranty expired too numerous to mention, but I ended up ditching the phone for Skype�yes Skype�on a tablet until my two-year contract expired.

But I am tempted to buy the Classic. (Specifically a huge fan of the physical keyboard. Also encouraged by the Amazon Appstore.) But I have this nagging feeling that I'm going to regret it. The biggest things that concern me are:

1. The long boot time�especially after crashes. From what I understand, this is still an issue on BB devices. I've never had a single boot issue on my Android and only a few on my iPad. I don't understand why this is still an issue with BB.

2. The inability to use BB features once I'm no longer on contract. This was another issue I had with the Torch. If you have an Android or Apple phone, those guys want you to continue to use the device after the contract expires. They're smart enough to understand that parents give old devices to their kids, who want to buy movies and games. BB restricted my access to everything besides the web browser once my contract was done. (Not that I cared with the Torch. But I'd want to be able to continue to use the Classic even after my contract's up.) To me, this seems like another short-sighted, arrogant BB decision. They assume customers will be more likely to buy a new BB phone, without thinking that customers would actually give the old phone to their kids, which as I mentioned would actually be great for BB. Or without thinking that customers would go buy an Android or iPhone�phones that have a higher resale value.

3. Massive price drops not long after the phone is released. I haven't followed BB recently well enough to know specifics, but I do know that their phones have dropped significantly not too long after release. I understand that companies do this when phone sales are weak, but we already know that all BB phone sales are probably going to be weak. So why not just release them with the heavy subsidies instead of waiting for sales to wane before doing so? It's only incentivizes potential buyers to wait, at which point they might move on to another phone.

4. I was also shocked by the lack of apps on my Torch. I was under the assumption that Skype was one of the few available apps, but suddenly that wasn't an option either. I know things have improved, especially with Amazon and side-loading capabilities. But for me it's more the concern of BB's future, given their recent decision to scale back emphasis on hardware. I wonder where BB (the phone maker) will be next year. What if they discontinue phone sales altogether the way Nike did with the Fuelband?

5. Probably the biggest thing that got to me was the way BB handled (and still handles?) OS updates. On my Torch, OS updates were not an option once a new version was released. I could not believe this. Apple and Android continue to update most phones for pretty much as long as the hardware allows. BB, it seems to me (based on my limited experience and familiarity with them), once again made the short-sighted decision to limit a new version of their OS to mostly new phones, specifically because they believed customers would just go out and get a new BB phone with the new OS version. Not thinking that people wanted to make their phones last as long as possible. I'm afraid that I'm going to get the Classic and won't get the newest OS updates even when the phone has the capability to run it.

I also don't understand why Blackberry wouldn't partner with a company (and companies) like Republic Wireless, which is essentially a no-contract plan that modifies Moto phones to run on wifi instead of cell when available. Customers have to pay around $300 upfront for a Moto X (partially subsidized by Republic) and then have several low budget plan options. This would seem to be a great fit for BB, especially since Republic customers have to pay about 75% of the unlocked phone price.

Wow that is really alot of bad luck & services you got from your network provider. To answer some of your questions let me give you my experiences.

1. Yes, long boot times are a big bummer on the BlackBerry phones but sometimes my Z10 reboot within 30 seconds & sometimes it takes 2 or 3 minutes. I don't know or understand why. Not sure about the boot times of iPhones or Android phones. I only had an iPhone as a backup as it was very inconvenient to use.

2. Your inability to use services upon the contract expiration is really silly of your network provider. I used to have a Curve & a 9900 using Digi. When my contract expires, Digi just continues charging me for the BIS to provide me with the service. There was just no arguments on it as I want to use the phone. Your provider could have easily done the same.

3. Massive price drops? Which phone doesn't drop in price? What's the big deal? No matter which phone you buy, the price will surely drop. Seriously, does anyone look at second hand value of phones? Even know a new unit doesn't drop in price, it's second hand value will easily be about 30-40% cheaper when it is used. Don't forget the vendor buying the phone from you still need to make a profit of at least 30%

4. I've only used skype on my computer via broadband access & it's really horrible. The picture quality is lousy & there is plenty of lag & jerking movement & the sound quality is really bad. I've tried BBM Video call with my friends in Canada & the sound quality & the video quality is really good. Unfortunately that is not really the case when I did a BBM Video call with my friend in the Philippines. Perhaps the Philippines Internet access is not as good. I did these BBM Video call via 3G.

5. My Curve 9800 I believe came with BlackBerry OS 5 & I upgraded to 6. Then I upgraded to a Bold 9900 which came with a. BlackBerry OS 6 & subsequently upgraded to BlackBerry OS 7. After which I switched to a Z10

Posted via CB10

[Dave Bourque]

It is confirmed that you can navigate the UI with the trackpad with the BlackBerry Classic.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247

[Witmen]

Attachment 297198

You mean like this? I'm confused.

Posted via CB10

No, I mean account icons on the home screen. Have you ever used the legacy OS? With it, you had the option of adding icons to the home screen for all of your accounts. Those icons brought you directly to the account you needed and made certain tasks faster.

With the legacy OS, you could fully handle all of your communication related tasks without ever using the Hub.

With BB10, you are stuck going into the Hub to access things. Your screen shot, which is of the Hub, is an example of my point. BB10 forces the Hub on you. In my opinion, the Hub was better when it was still only one of the methods of accessing accounts.

[slagman5]

No, I mean account icons on the home screen. Have you ever used the legacy OS? With it, you had the option of adding icons to the home screen for all of your accounts. Those icons brought you directly to the account you needed and made certain tasks faster.

With the legacy OS, you could fully handle all of your communication related tasks without ever using the Hub.

With BB10, you are stuck going into the Hub to access things. Your screen shot, which is of the Hub, is an example of my point. BB10 forces the Hub on you. In my opinion, the Hub was better when it was still only one of the methods of accessing accounts.

You have to be specific with what tasks can be done faster that way because I came from a 9900 and to me consolidating all accounts to the hub works faster for me... So can you state a specific function or situation where it's faster to have to go to one specific account one at a time?

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10