[Witmen]

At times, I think that maybe I am "a BBOS holdout" even though I no longer use a BBOS device and do have BB10 devices.

I used the old BlackBerry OS as my primary mobile operating system of choice for many many years, nearly 10. During that time, I had other devices as well, but my BlackBerry was always my primary device. Even when I had the Nexus 4, it was secondary while my Bold 9930 was my primary device. The Nexus 4 was WiFi only, while the Bold had actual service on it.

Then the Z10 came along. No more BIS, no more amazing email that delivered faster than anything else, no more QuickLuanch or other efficiency boosting headless applications. The things I want from a BlackBerry weren't on BB10 at launch, many of them still aren't on BB10 all this time later. The Z10 and BB10 was just a "me too" product that was missing the advantages of both BlackBerry 7 and Android.

So for the first time in nearly ten years, my BlackBerry device became a WiFi only device while my Android device got actual cellular service.

If the new BlackBerry met my needs like the old ones did, I'd still be using them. I was hoping BB10 would take what the legacy OS did well and improve on it, instead, we just got a Frankensteinish OS that is a mixture of WebOS, MeeGo and Android.

Some folks will be happy with anything with a BB logo on it, I'm not one of those folks though. I still have BB10 devices (they have a layer of dust on them at the moment) and I truly hope that the platforms improves soon, but for now, BB10 just doesn't meet my needs like the legacy OS did.

I'd be more interested in buying the classic if it ran an updated version of the legacy OS. So I guess I'm a hold out.

[idssteve]

... No matter how you feel about who does what better, blackberry just wants to make it through the next 2 years at this point, and making the best decisions to get there should be the only thing they are worried about.

Posted via CB10

Wouldn't targeting their proven markets help assure short term survival?

[droiddude]

Thank you. People need to realize that others have different opinions & taste. There is no need to put people down simply because they don't always agree with you. I'm personally tired of coming on here to find answers or to learn something new & all I find is people throwing tantrums. Before you post something or reply something think to yourself WWCD( what would Chen do) . I personally have a Z30 & love it but I also like the Legacy devices I guess you could call me a Divergent

Posted via CB10

[spork141]

Wouldn't targeting their proven markets help assure short term survival?

Nope. In order to break into the iPhone market BlackBerry has to do waaaaay more work on their brand recognition. One day maybe but at this point they can't seem to even please their legacy users, for reasons I don't understand.

Posted via CB10

[Stevebez]

... or (mind explode) wearing gloves in the winter.

Actually, Nokia figured this one out.

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

Nope. In order to break into the iPhone market BlackBerry has to do waaaaay more work on their brand recognition. One day maybe but at this point they can't seem to even please their legacy users, for reasons I don't understand.

Posted via CB10

They must live long enough to someday break into the iDroid market. Meantime they must survive. Legacy is a proven market. BB should already know how to sell to that market. What i don't understand is why they would risk leaving out so many valued legacy features when that market is so essential to their short term survival?? Certainly not the way i would have approached a "life or death" choice. But then John Chen hasn't called for my advice lately...

Bigger screens and keyboards are not without compromise, btw. External dimensions also get compromised.

[droiddude]

I love BlackBerry but if it doesn't offer what I want why should I keep buying from them. I had a Z10 an Q10 now a Z30 & while the latter is an awesome phone in its own right it has a lot missing that the other OS's offer I myself am thinking of leaving BlackBerry. When I buy something I want it to serve me well. I've heard all the arguments of why BB10 is better because of the HUB or peak & flow etc. They are great but that is not alone going to keep customers or bring customers over. BlackBerry has to realize that people communicate in many different ways not just through email or text message or through BBM. They communicate the social media etc & that is mostly done through apps. Do you think Apple would still be around if they didn't have the apps. BlackBerry missed the boat the first time because they didn't want to see that people were willing to type on glass. Now it's like they are missing the boat this time with the apps. I'm sorry but a half assed attempt at the app situation is appalling. If I wanted Android on my phone I would go buy an Android phone.

Posted via CB10

[spork141]

They must live long enough to someday break into the iDroid market. Meantime they must survive. Legacy is a proven market. BB should already know how to sell to that market. What i don't understand is why they would risk leaving out so many valued legacy features when that market is so essential to their short term survival?? Certainly not the way i would have approached a "life or death" choice. But then John Chen hasn't called for my advice lately...

Bigger screens and keyboards are not without compromise, btw. External dimensions also get compromised.

It's a quickly dying market. I don't think we are connecting here. The legacy bbos / bis market is not enough to cover the cost of mass producing new phones and getting carrier support. More and more companies are going byod and quickly because it's more cost effective and users don't want to carry around 2 devices.

I know people will go on and on about security and email and there's still a lot of companies that need bis for that. But it's not enough anymore for BlackBerry to survive on alone. Just look at BlackBerry market share compared to 2010. It's staggering how it's tanked. It's not even a market anymore.

So BlackBerry needs to produce devices that are a nice middle ground to both. And at the point bb10 has only matured enough to get this far. The why did they abandon "me" thing has to stop. They pulled together and got the toolbelt back and the hot keys. Are we really now moving on to the charging contacts and convenience keys?


Posted via CB10

[Q10Bold]

I saw the back of the Classic today- looks really cheap.
Shouldnt cost more than 300$

Posted via CB10

[mountainman]

I wish this thread would die.

Or maybe I'll start a thread "All you Q10 users - It's time to stop using an OS that's lacking and go back to the Bold 9900/9930"

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

[slagman5]

I bought many BlackBerry products because I want the brand to succeed. Because I like the company, agree with their values and how they make/made their products.

If another company like Samsung would release a well-built, feature rich Qwerty phone tomorrow, I wouldn't buy it because I disagree with the company's work ethics and strategic values.

That's how simple it is and why Brand Loyalty is a beautiful thing.



Posted via Q10 ?

Um, well, you said it yourself. You support them because they make "well made" products. Well, what is "well made" to you? Using low quality materials rather than premium materials still considered "well made"? Or how about removing feature after feature? When will it become not "well made" for you?

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

But it's not compromise after compromise. With the classic you'll get a much bigger screen and a bigger keyboard and a better battery we assume. In tradeoff you lose swappable battery. You only see "compromise" in that? The benefits don't factor in at all? For bbos folks I see a great upgrade in so so so much in hardware and software. I know the battery thing is a negative but to look passed all the good for that one thing?

Also, enough with the iPhone talk. Really. It's not even a comparison. If you want to see why people copy the iPhone look at the sales numbers. Everyone has gone the touch screen non removable battery route. Android and windows phone included. The z3 is likley BlackBerry only bb10 success and it doesn't have a removable battery. BlackBerry and iPhone don't need to be in the same convo anymore. It's not apple to apple (pun) in market, hardware, or software or anything. No matter how you feel about who does what better, blackberry just wants to make it through the next 2 years at this point, and making the best decisions to get there should be the only thing they are worried about.

Posted via CB10

Don't be so tunnel visioned to only think about bbos devices. The point of BB is to keep moving forward right? So we need to take every prior device in consideration. So based on what we've seen so far, we've already lost the convenience keys, now we might lose a swappable battery, we have to settle with 2 year-old technology, a plastic battery door instead of glass weave, possibly crappy plastic frets instead of stainless steel... how much more should we lose before we stop with this "brand loyalty" silliness?

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[wilber1]

My take on why BlackBerry stayed in business this long is all the BBOS 7 users stayed with them when others tried OS 10 and then went to i phones or android half off my family did so .But a lot (**** load) stayed and waited for a progression of the 9900 bold that is close to becoming a reality and I am sure there will be some very nice all touch devices coming next year for people that want them .
Bugs me to hear people whine about the classic coming if they remember there was NO lineups for the z or 10 or 30 lets enjoy the classic and move on , one thing for sure we are all pulling for BlackBerry to survive .

[spork141]

Don't be so tunnel visioned to only think about bbos devices. The point of BB is to keep moving forward right? So we need to take every prior device in consideration. So based on what we've seen so far, we've already lost the convenience keys, now we might lose a swappable battery, we have to settle with 2 year-old technology, a plastic battery door instead of glass weave, possibly crappy plastic frets instead of stainless steel... how much more should we lose before we stop with this "brand loyalty" silliness?

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Jesus dude now we're complaining about plastic battery doors? The Samsung galaxy series has sold hundreds of millions of units with plastic battery doors. 90% of the phones out there have plastic battery doors. And since when has blackberry been known for their premium materials. Aside from the 3 bolds they made all the other blackberries were plastic as they come.

I owned the q10 and now the z30. I like the glass weave but relax, it's not made from alien technology. It's pretty much a soft touch plastic back. I don't care how BlackBerry sold it. Its nothing soft touch plastic can't accomplish. The PlayBook had a plastic back and was just as nice.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

Jesus dude now we're complaining about plastic battery doors? The Samsung galaxy series has sold hundreds of millions of units with plastic battery doors. 90% of the phones out there have plastic battery doors. And since when has blackberry been known for their premium materials. Aside from the 3 bolds they made all the other blackberries were plastic as they come.

I owned the q10 and now the z30. I like the glass weave but relax, it's not made from alien technology. It's pretty much a soft touch plastic back. I don't care how BlackBerry sold it. Its nothing soft touch plastic can't accomplish. The PlayBook had a plastic back and was just as nice.

Posted via CB10

Wow, you have no clue about materials. Not to be mean, but you don't. Glass weave is pretty much fiberglass made like carbon fiber. You can't use actual carbon fiber in a phone because it'll act as a faraday cage and interfere with the signal. But the glass weave material, like fiberglass, is stronger than STEEL of the same weight. So no, it's NOT "just a soft plastic." Quite the opposite, it's a very strong material that doesn't add more weight. And you own a Q10 yet you say every other BB other than the Bold is plastic? Please show me where all of this plastic is in the Q10... the frame/bezel is milled out of a solid block of FORGED STAINLESS STEEL, the frets between the keys are made out of stainless steel, and the fret across the back is also stainless steel. The only plastic you will find on the outside of the Q10 are the actual keys themselves and the chin piece... Even the domes under the keys are metal. Please do a bit of research before you start rambling on a bunch of misinformation...

Edit: Sorry if you don't care about any of this. I work really hard for my money, so if I am to spend hundreds of dollars, I don't want to be holding a slab of plastic. If I am forced to go all-touch, the HTC One M8 is looking real nice with that body that is milled from a solid block of aluminum...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[spork141]

Wow, you have no clue about materials. Not to be mean, but you don't. Glass weave is pretty much fiberglass made like carbon fiber. You can't use actual carbon fiber in a phone because it'll act as a faraday cage and interfere with the signal. But the glass weave material, like fiberglass, is stronger than STEEL of the same weight. So no, it's NOT "just a soft plastic." Quite the opposite, it's a very strong material that doesn't add more weight. And you own a Q10 yet you say every other BB other than the Bold is plastic? Please show me where all of this plastic is in the Q10... the frame/bezel is milled out of a solid block of FORGED STAINLESS STEEL, the frets between the keys are made out of stainless steel, and the fret across the back is also stainless steel. The only plastic you will find on the outside of the Q10 are the actual keys themselves and the chin piece... Even the domes under the keys are metal. Please do a bit of research before you start rambling on a bunch of misinformation...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

I know! I know that they take 2 hours to make and blah blah. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ. It's still a soft plasticy battery door. In the end it doesn't change your life. Forged stainless steel made by elves in the forest. It's metal. Relax. Your classic will still feel nice in your hands without the snobby lingo to go along with it. No dolphins have to die making our phones.

Posted via CB10

[spork141]

Anyway. I feel like I made my point (or didn't) with his thread. I am excited for the classic l, even if its not going to be the perfect smartphone for me or anyone else. I hope the toolbelt brings a lot of us back together and that blackberry is successful and we all can keep arguing for years to come. That's why we're are all here right? We are blackberry fanatics after all.

Took this pic about 20 mins ago. On my z30 with HDR. Not something I ever expected to do with a blackberry a few years back. Hopefully it's a good sign well get there one day.



Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

Anyway. I feel like I made my point (or didn't) with his thread. I am excited for the classic l, even if its not going to be the perfect smartphone for me or anyone else. I hope the toolbelt brings a lot of us back together and that blackberry is successful and we all can keep arguing for years to come. That's why we're are all here right? We are blackberry fanatics after all.

Took this pic about 20 mins ago. On my z30 with HDR. Not something I ever expected to do with a blackberry a few years back. Hopefully it's a good sign well get there one day.



Posted via CB10

Safe to say, very few of us are still using 9900 for it's "outstanding camera"...

[ChubbleTrouble]

I was a holdout for a long time for all the oft-repeated reasons (BIS, highly customizable profiles, toolbelt, etc.). I finally switched to a Q10 and have never looked back. If some people want the toolbelt, I'm happy that they can have a model which has one, but I myself don't want or need it. My email works wonderfully, I have BBM and Skype video calling, the Hub, Peek, and Flow. I don't have any problems whatsoever copying, pasting, or editing text. The Notification profile customization, while more options are always better, I hardly miss; anyway they were making me busier than I needed to be with tweaking and re-tweaking them. The Browser screams, and phone call quality is excellent. Although my Q10's battery is a beast and does very well on most days, I still bought a battery bundle so that I always have a 100% charged battery on hand when the on-board battery is depleted. Wouldn't want a non-removable battery. I love BB10 and my Q10.

[slagman5]

I know! I know that they take 2 hours to make and blah blah. ZZZZZZZZZZZZ. It's still a soft plasticy battery door. In the end it doesn't change your life. Forged stainless steel made by elves in the forest. It's metal. Relax. Your classic will still feel nice in your hands without the snobby lingo to go along with it. No dolphins have to die making our phones.

Posted via CB10

Wow, so a material that is stronger than steel of the same weight is just "a soft plasticy battery door"? Yah, well, you keep living in whatever lala land you live in. I'm done trying to use logic on this ridiculous discussion... I honestly can't hold a serious conversation like this. What a waste of my time this has been...

?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Q10Bold]

Thats it. I think the Classic will be a great device. But the Q10 is much more premium and imo a better looking device.

Posted via Q10Bold

[dguy123]

perhaps removable batteries are more susceptible to random reboots due to battery shifting / temperature effects (expansion/contraction of the battery)

to avoid the acursed random reboot issue put in a fixed battery big enough not to need a spare.

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

perhaps removable batteries are more susceptible to random reboots due to battery shifting / temperature effects (expansion/contraction of the battery)

to avoid the acursed random reboot issue put in a fixed battery big enough not to need a spare.

Posted via CB10

Well, there are countless devices of all descriptions that utilize swappable batteries without loosing contact. Proper design is the solution there, imo. Users actually wanting a fixed battery seem to be a pretty small minority. Can't recall the last time i heard someone complain about the Q10 being too thick, also. A couple "smart guys" in my office are convinced the fixed rear cover has more to do with antenna configuration. ?? IDK. If so, that might at least provide a rational "excuse" for the config. fwiw. ??

[ChubbleTrouble]

My Q10's batteries never lose contact. I've never had a random reboot.

[Supa_Fly1]

I don't care if it's because of a toolbelt, removable battery, programmable hot keys, charging contacts, or some silly bbos feature that hasn't been ported over. If the classic doesn't sell, you won't see another blackberry of this nature. It's time to accept change and get on the right side. Holding on to your ancient phone because some granular feature hadn't made its way to bb10 hardware yet is just as bad for BlackBerry as you getting an iphone or Android.

John Chen has brought you the toolbelt. Arguably a useless feature with how far touchscreen tech has come, but the BlackBerry community has seemed to embrace it anyway. This is where the divide has to end though.

This is as good as its going to get unless BlackBerry can prove that it can push hardware again. Time to shut up about all the little advantages charging contacts, or removable batteries bring, and move into reality. It's either the classic, or you will be getting the next iphone because this is as good as its gonna get if it doesn't sell.

Posted via CB10

BOWZE!!!!

Talk about dropping the BOMB! Been trying to say this for 9mths ... but you sir have put it to the punch and eloquently.

Users of holdout BBOS devices - legacy need to embrace and try BB10 fully without reserve of going back to another device and THEN communicate what they need and HOW it is not there in BB10 or different! The greatest detriment to BB hardware sales has NOT been those iPhone users ... nor even Android ... it was the BB faithful NOT accepting CHANGE ... BB10 was meant for them ... and I'll admit rushed and missing features ... but not buying and showing support with your dollars and just their MOUT (mispelled on purpose for effect) is the SOLE reason for their dropping stock until Chen came about.