[dmsbang]

So if BlackBerry is going to stay a niche and Enterprise friendly company, why don't they reproduce the Bold 9900/30 with souped up specs? Develop BBOS8 for the people that want it...I personally have adapted to BB10 and adore my Z30 and Classic. They have truly made me forget about the Bold 9930 and Storm2 I once had.

Funny thing is I use BlackBerry for my personal phone and my employer supplies me with an iPhone 5S. How weird is that?

Posted via Ocarina the Classic

[diehardbbuser]

So if BlackBerry is going to stay a niche and Enterprise friendly company, why don't they reproduce the Bold 9900/30 with souped up specs? Develop BBOS8 for the people that want it...I personally have adapted to BB10 and adore my Z30 and Classic. They have truly made me forget about the Bold 9930 and Storm2 I once had.

Funny thing is I use BlackBerry for my personal phone and my employer supplies me with an iPhone 5S. How weird is that?

Posted via Ocarina the Classic

Enterprise and many users would be happy but with there limited resources, firing of bbos team and all resources on bb10... Wouldn't make sense at this point to lose another 2-3 years for that to happen... They can't even create the perfect device yet, put out horrendous calendar app... What makes anyone think they have the know how any longer to even make bbos8... Plus bloody obvious they wouldn't know how to any longer..

[forevergreen]

Are all these things that we're missing so much in the Classic all that hard to implement? Are they all software changes? There must be people listening and even hardcore users on the team that have the exact same gripes as we do. I want to love the classic and DO love the hardware, but there's just no way I can leave my 9900, just couldn't tolerate it.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

BBOS is dead, you guys need to adapt or live with what your BOLD for as long as it is supported.

Personally I can't imagine using an old BBOS Browser with only a 3G network.... yikes. But different people have different needs - sometimes we find that "perfect" device just doesn't exist.

[John Crist]

BBOS is dead, you guys need to adapt or live with what your BOLD for as long as it is supported.

Personally I can't imagine using an old BBOS Browser with only a 3G network.... yikes. But different people have different needs - sometimes we find that "perfect" device just doesn't exist.

My Bold supports 4G. I don't use the browser that much, and again, just because our usage patterns are different doesn't make either of us any more correct than the other...

Congratulations for pointing out the same point dozens before you have pointed out: A lot of us will be sticking with our Bolds for quite some time to come. Fact is, we don't HAVE to adapt because our devices work as they are and that's all that matters to US. What matters to US doesn't involve YOU.

The longer this goes on the longer I feel like I'm talking to iZealots. Don't be like them. The fact that we use an older OS after giving BB10 a try for a long time now speaks to BlackBerry, not to the intelligence of us users. It's not our responsibility as consumers to keep BlackBerry going. That's up to Chen and the BlackBerry team. WHEN they produce something worthy of our use, we will switch. That's just hasn't happened yet *in our opinion*, and our opinion doesn't require your acceptance to exist.

You are not the center of our or anyone else's universe. In short: Get over yourself.


That said, yes, it can all be solved in software. That's what we have been WAITING for. I liked my Classic hardware. It was the software that killed it for me. It isn't even the big things, it's a death by a thousand paper cuts. Alas I won't reiterate all that's been said already.

Posted via CB10

[VeryBumpy]

All this talk makes me wish I was super rich.

I'd design, make and sell a Bold-like clone worthy of BBOS and 2015.

As the saying goes, if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself.

[forevergreen]

The fact that it can all be resolved via software changes is encouraging.
The fact that BBOS is dead doesn't mean I can't/won't see what many want to see in the Classic.
Maybe by the end of the year the Classic can start behaving a little like my 9930.

[anon(2325196)]

Attention whoring forum threads. Why even entertain it?

Posted via CB10

[redlightblinking]

BBOS is dead, you guys need to adapt or live with what your BOLD for as long as it is supported.

I believe they've already made their choice. It was B.

But, just for some perspective here, you could have also said:

Plasma is dead. You need to take that (best looking ever flat screen technology) off your wall or continue to enjoy it.

Vinyl is dead. You need to start downloading compressed mp3's or continue to listen to your vinyl for as long as your record player works.

[mad_mdx]

@ dmsbang

I have to disagree. I just switched to the Classic from 9900 and the calendar app is crap: it is slow, buggy, and not able to take rapid fire entries like on the Os 7 calendar. It's unfortunate we can't get the old OS 7 calendar app on BB10. What are BlackBerry thinking?

Besides this, everything else is pretty awesome on the Classic. But still, for many calendar is important, if not essential. I'm not super impressed with universal search and the phone function.

Posted via CB10

So because of a slightly less fast calendar, BlackBerry 10 isn't better than Bbos?
Just like the guy earlier said, it's all in your head

[diehardbbuser]

Again plasma is sad.. Hate the overly contrasts straight out of box LEDs but that's what the masses... Man I wish plasma was still alive... Far superior but oh we'll. great parallel to bbos and bold 9000s.

As for vinyl, hardly dead. Serious tables and stylus are still being put out and you can get any album on vinyl.. I know personally several hifi people with some seriously tricked out systems, cd is dead. Hi fidelity digitial audio is the future now that me memory is cheap.. Pono was just the beginning.. More and more you start to see high quality digital audio becoming available...

[mad_mdx]

They'd still be in the same boat, the simple fact is bb10 isn't what bb users by the masses wanted and now it's a fringe operating system because they went completely a different way then what built the company and brought about such a large user base.

I know tones of people pissed about the playbook mess and bb10 not being supported and left just cause of that.

The people spoke and they didn't like the z10, didn't like the bb10 os, too long to launch q and didn't like no available replacement for the bold directly ... Simply put, the masses didn't like bb10... Too gimmicky and z10 was a poor effort..

Not user-bases fault we don't like bb10 as much as bbos... It just is fact and number don't lie. Apple, android get it and don't mess up by alienating its user base by changing things that drastically and expect people just to accept it. No one disagrees that the battery pulls, slightly unstable os, bb19 should have been just a backend fix and not affect the look, usability features...

People need to stop bullying bbos people like bb did and just accept it for what it is... If bb ever Launch a proper bb10 os, a worthy device and passport was close but to wide, a smaller classic with flagship specs and good slider... Maybe .. People will come back.. There's a huge base who don't want large devices.. The classic is too largeish for many..

I've had my q for what seems ever now and still don't like a lot of things and I never complained about bbos except for the lack of apps and battery pulls... That said, why don't I jump to another os is simply I hate android and apple doesn't offer a keyboard and I don't like how email functions on it... So no option. I hate windows tiles both desktop and on mobile so not an option either so I'm with blackberry not by choice but by default... Want keyboard.. Don't like android or windows mobile ... And from others I know it's the same reasoning. It's not great but other options or worse.. Not exactly a great way to build brand loyality when we loved our bbos bolds...

People were leaving BlackBerry by the boatload before BlackBerry 10 even launched. By then no one even wanted to be seen with a BlackBerry.
Get over it, iPhone and android killed BlackBerry because bbos was garbage for the majority of smartphone users. Only a small number of die-hard 9900 users remained.

[redlightblinking]

So because of a slightly less fast calendar, BlackBerry 10 isn't better than Bbos?

He said that besides that, everything else is awesome.

Just like the guy earlier said, it's all in your head

Wait, you just admitted that the calendar wasn't as fast. Sooo......how is it "all in your head"?

[redlightblinking]

Get over it, iPhone and android killed BlackBerry because bbos was garbage for the majority of smartphone users. didn't have nearly as many apps. Only a small number of die-hard 9900 users remained.

Fixed it for ya....

Clearly, it wasn't garbage to them before the app culture came around, it was only after it that suddenly phones that lacked it were "garbage".

Also, there's a lot of of other various non-9900 BB's in use as well. Just saw a guy in Verizon store today buying a classic to replace his old Bold.

[John Crist]

So because of a slightly less fast calendar, BlackBerry 10 isn't better than Bbos?
Just like the guy earlier said, it's all in your head

That... isn't even remotely close to a summary of what's being said. Not even REMOTELY close...

Posted via CB10

[anon(8063781)]

BBOS users are not BlackBerry's problem. We're a drop in the bucket.

Most -- unlike me -- are using BIS and by doing so, are adding to BlackBerry's revenue and enabling the company to keep innovating. Many also own a BB10 device. I do. I know that others who have posted in this thread also own BB10 devices. So how are we the problem? We might use our old handsets, but BlackBerry is getting our money in various ways...

Now, if BlackBerry doesn't take that money and produce something we really want, that's the company's failure, not mine, and not any other legacy user's.

[anon(8063781)]

With reference to the app argument above....

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The app-gap is an excuse for failure. If apps were the be-all and end-all, apple would have never beaten Palm and Windows mobile. In 2007, the apps were all with the 'mature' platforms. The iPhone was so much better that many people bought one despite the fact that it had no apps, that you couldn't cut-and-paste, or that it didn't even do PIM.

Build an OS and hardware that clearly outclass the field, market it well, and you'll win, despite whatever shortcomings you have.

[jeremyr4]

I'm the OP and I started this thread because I have now been FORCED away from a phone that I would choose to continue to use if I had a choice - my Motorola Q9c. I was forced because I can no longer buy batteries that have any life to them even though they are sold as "new", as they were manufactured back in 2009 for the most part. So I have now been through the forced transition that ALL 9900 users will go through at some point in the future. While I think the 9900 is a better solution than the Classic for multiple reasons, I'm buying the Classic and sticking with it (unless I find any true show stoppers that don't allow me to use the phone) to support BB because it's the ONLY modern keyboard phone option on the market that has a toolbelt.

Let me tell you that being FORCED to something else (like a full touchscreen phone) is NOT fun. That's why I started this thread - because I'm already concerned that within 2-3 years I will be forced into a touchscreen phone if BB doesn't sell enough Classics! Anyhow, I have decided to support BB to keep the physical keyboard alive. And, as inconvenient as it is for 9900 users to use a Classic right now (in many cases), I do think they are being shortsighted by saying: "The market will dictate what I buy. Why should I buy something inferior to what I can use right now". To me, this the typical short-term thinking that isn't surprising but is VERY unfortunate. As others have pointed out in this thread, long-term thinkers will support BB right now if they want to have access to a physical keyboard in 2-3 years. Short-term thinkers will keep using their current devices and will be FORCED to a full touchscreen solution in a few years, as the "market" won't continue to provide physical keyboard phones if they aren't purchased now.

I'll stop banging my head against the wall. But, based on feedback from many 9900 users, I'm guessing I'll be forced into a touchscreen phone after my Classic, which will SUCK!

[John Crist]

I'll stop banging my head against the wall. But, based on feedback from many 9900 users, I'm guessing I'll be forced into a touchscreen phone after my Classic, which will SUCK!

In my personal life I have a saying, "No kids, no pets, no problems". This is because I'm allergic to drama.

You seem like the type that enjoys drama.

If you have to switch in 2 to 3 years because BlackBerry goes under, it is hardly our fault at all. The failure of a business isn't the fault of the consumers -- It's the fault of the business. It's been said, time and time again, that when BlackBerry produces something we want, we will switch. Look at my signature. BlackBerry has MORE than gotten my money, not to mention the monthly subsidy for BIS they've been getting because of us legacy users since the dawn of time.

It is hardly my fault if they squander that money.

If you want to talk about short term thinking, it'd be incredibly short sighted for some of us to switch just because we're afraid of a company going under. We'd be gaining a ton of features (that we don't use to begin with), but we'd be loosing a lot of core productivity, efficiency, and features we need in our day. Switching isn't an option for a lot of us, and for some kid on the block to come at our place of zen and community and slap us in the face is beyond insulting and accomplishing the opposite of what you set out to do: we're staying with our platform, despite what you or the other zealots have to say.

I use to say BlackBerry users were some of the nicest. Sadly with the BB10 crowd it seems I can't support that statement anylonger. More and more BB10 zealots are acting more and more like iWannabes.

If you have to switch to something else in the future, it won't be because of us. It'll be because BlackBerry failed. Period. End of story.

[VeryBumpy]

I dunno, 3 new keyboard phones from BB in less than a year. I'm not too worried about hardware availability.

What does concern me is, will Blackberry listen?

[redlightblinking]

With reference to the app argument above....

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The app-gap is an excuse for failure. If apps were the be-all and end-all, apple would have never beaten Palm and Windows mobile. In 2007, the apps were all with the 'mature' platforms. The iPhone was so much better that many people bought one despite the fact that it had no apps, that you couldn't cut-and-paste, or that it didn't even do PIM.

Build an OS and hardware that clearly outclass the field, market it well, and you'll win, despite whatever shortcomings you have.

The app gap is not an excuse for failure, it's the reason even the best phone ever....if it were invented today....would fail miserably. There was a land grab for a few years in which a few companies were in the right place at the right time to get the interest of most app developers, and once the snowball got big enough (or the pendulum swung far enough...pick your analogy), Apple and Android had the interest of enough devs that it gave those OS's even more marketability, which lead to more sales, which led to more apps, which led to more sales, which led to more apps. Rinse and repeat. It happened in the course of just a few years and BB was shut out before they could change course.

Apple beat palm because of, among other things, apps. Windows mobile? They were the forth to the party. They suffer the same fate as BB.

The iPhone was so much "different" not necessarily so much "better". It appealed to everyone else (not carrying a BlackBerry or Palm because communications was important to them) because it was the first full touch phone, it had your entire music library, and a neat looking "non-business" feel, and ridiculously simple (and limited) operating system that "anyone can use". Apps weren't really a major part of any other OS, even though a handful of them existed, mostly for existing OS like BB, Palm. The term "app" wasn't even a part of the lexicon back then...Apple created that. Remember "There's an app for that"? Their goal was to make apps turn your phone from a power communications device into a Swiss army knife of functions that could also make a phone call and barely sort email.

It was a calculated marketing move by Apple to go after the other 90% of the market who didn't have a smart phone and convinced them to get one for other reasons than the reason people got BlackBerry or Palm, etc. Only later did the BlackBerry people switch over to join the iPhone or Android crowd, many begrudgingly as they missed all the sweet BB advantages.

If building an OS and hardware that clearly outclasses the field was the only secret, the Passport would doing much better. But as you also said....."marketing it well". That is the big difference. Apple is a marketing company. They just happen to also make phones and other stuff. They are amazing at branding.

[Halifax Guy]

It's obvious if you use the Bold 9900/30 for years, you'll get used to its calendar. But it's very hard to fairly compare the brief use of the BB10 calendar to one you've used a very long time. It's definitely adequate...

Posted via Ocarina the Classic

I don't choose a device or a manufacturer of said device to receive an "adequate" device and service quality. I make my choice based on performance and overall quality.


Adequate doesn't cut it.

Posted using 10.2.1, thankfully not 10.3.1

[anon(8063781)]

The app gap is not an excuse for failure, it's the reason even the best phone ever....if it were invented today....would fail miserably. There was a land grab for a few years in which a few companies were in the right place at the right time to get the interest of most app developers, and once the snowball got big enough (or the pendulum swung far enough...pick your analogy), Apple and Android had the interest of enough devs that it gave those OS's even more marketability, which lead to more sales, which led to more apps, which led to more sales, which led to more apps. Rinse and repeat. It happened in the course of just a few years and BB was shut out before they could change course.

Apple beat palm because of, among other things, apps. Windows mobile? They were the forth to the party. They suffer the same fate as BB.

The iPhone was so much "different" not necessarily so much "better". It appealed to everyone else (not carrying a BlackBerry or Palm because communications was important to them) because it was the first full touch phone, it had your entire music library, and a neat looking "non-business" feel, and ridiculously simple (and limited) operating system that "anyone can use". Apps weren't really a major part of any other OS, even though a handful of them existed, mostly for existing OS like BB, Palm. The term "app" wasn't even a part of the lexicon back then...Apple created that. Remember "There's an app for that"? Their goal was to make apps turn your phone from a power communications device into a Swiss army knife of functions that could also make a phone call and barely sort email.

It was a calculated marketing move by Apple to go after the other 90% of the market who didn't have a smart phone and convinced them to get one for other reasons than the reason people got BlackBerry or Palm, etc. Only later did the BlackBerry people switch over to join the iPhone or Android crowd, many begrudgingly as they missed all the sweet BB advantages.

If building an OS and hardware that clearly outclasses the field was the only secret, the Passport would doing much better. But as you also said....."marketing it well". That is the big difference. Apple is a marketing company. They just happen to also make phones and other stuff. They are amazing at branding.

It wasn't just branding and marketing, though Apple excels in both those areas.

It was a revolutionary product. Because of the strengths listed below, it won market share despite the flaws I mentioned in my first post (and I forgot lack of 3g)

1. Screen Size
2. Capacitive touchscreen
3. Simple OS for the Masses
4. Great Browser with Pinch to Zoom
5. Built-in iPod / iTunes Compatibility (yuck, but people clearly like it)

However much we all like BB 10, it's not a revolutionary product. I've owned a Z10 and currently have a Q10. The Z10 -- which was the phone intended to win market share -- feels like an iAndroid with a few interface/inbox changes.

Even if BlackBerry's phones had a large number of native apps that worked smoothly (unlike the android runtime mess with its 10 second pauses on opening and laggy screen response), they wouldn't win people away from other platforms, because there is not enough to persuade anyone to make the shift.

Why would any typical non-techie user drop the iPhone and learn a new OS? What particularly does BlackBerry offer them that the iPhone does not? A new inbox combining emails with texts and twitter feeds? That's not enough of a reason and in fact, for those non-techies who like simplicity and continuity, it might just seem like a confusing change. Of course, you can argue all you like, but I have a billion non-switching iPhone and android users as evidence for my contention.

Edit: re: apps. There were programs for the earlier platforms. People bought programs for their Palm and Windows mobile devices. "App" was clever marketing, and when you think of it, a closed, manufacturer-controlled app store was something Microsoft would have been anti-trusted to death for -- and thus never did. But there were apps. I remember downloading .prcs, .pdbs and .cabs and installing them.

Edit #2: Beyond overall interpretations, I think we clearly agree on a lot of this. You're right about the iPhone being different. I remember thinking, the minute they add PIM to that (the iPhone), it's going to kill Palm -- because it did so many additional things well. It turns out I was slightly wrong. Palm adapted and HP killed them.

[baspeed]

Why would anyone want to go back.??Person would have to be one stubborn sob not to enjoy all the benefits of BlackBerry 10. It would be like me going back to my BlackBerry 9850 and leaving my Z30. That would be 100% crazier than AT&T not displaying a Passport on their shelves.

It's a BlackBerry Z30 on Big Red and still on 10.2.1

[Dave Bourque]

I dunno, 3 new keyboard phones from BB in less than a year. I'm not too worried about hardware availability.

What does concern me is, will Blackberry listen?

Yes they do listen. They made the Classic. They didn't need to. But they did. Now the software can continue to bring all remaining features that are missing.

Posted via CB10