11-23-14 10:09 PM
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  1. mona5804's Avatar
    I'm blackberry for life brother. Who am I? I'm a tech geek who has seen far too many cell phones botched because of sub par specs. I have used every mobile platform there is (expect webos) even symbian.

    Windmere
    11-15-14 02:00 AM
  2. Empyrean's Avatar
    *sigh* This subject always seems to pop up in every thread in this section of the forum, eh?

    As indicated, the Q10 has just become $199, well after the sales volumes have worked their magic to recover the R&D costs associated with the device, allowing the price drop. It's called a product life cycle -- just because the laser printer you bought in 2010 for $150 is now available on clearance for $49.97 doesn't mean it's unjustified for this year's model ink jet to be $100 on release. It is what it is.

    Rest assured, the ppi is not a factor. Any of the test/beta/leak devices we've seen have had commentary by the leakers on the stunning display. It's all going to be okay, folks. BlackBerry won't release a device that is functionally crappy. They've cut the fat and are streamlining their offering.
    11-15-14 02:01 AM
  3. Elite1's Avatar
    That's the problem, the classic should cater to every customer. Also the z10 compared to an HTC m8 or the passport feels like an $8 calculator. Bc isn't a word I agree but auto correct don't care.

    Windmere
    As much as the grammar police can be annoying and detract from a debate, I have to say:
    Can you please spell "Windermere" correctly if you're going to use it?

    Btw the HTC One M8 isn't from the same gen as Z10. The M7 was, even though the Z10 was designed probably one year earlier with its long delays on the firmware side. Z10 design was likely finalized 1.5-2 years before that of M8.
    anon(8908445) and Christoph7K like this.
    11-15-14 02:50 AM
  4. saintforlife's Avatar
    I think many people out there today don't understand how computer work and therefore look at the numbers because that's the only way they can make themselves make a decision. Here is an example for everyone.

    We have a 250 GB Hard drive at 10,000 rpm and we have a 750 GB hard drive at 5,400 rpm. Now if you showed that to someone they would instantly pick the 750 because obviously bigger is better right? And that's were many go wrong.

    Just because a phone has a 1.7ghz dual core does not means it going to be slow and not work. BlackBerry is not designing their devices for games and people need to understand that. They are working around security and mobility for work.

    iPhone 6 has a 1.4ghz Dual Core and no one seems to mind that? Have faith in BlackBerry. I always believe you get what you pay for and if they have bumped the price a bit, it could mean better internals.

    Have faith in BlackBerry that they will supply us with a device that will be smooth and functional for our work and social needs. (possibly gaming too)

    Posted via BlackBerry Q5 on 10.2.1.3442
    How is what you posted anything to with the screen display resolution in the OP? PPI is something a human can actually make out when looking at a screen and can tell if something looks pixelated or not. Comparing screen resolution specs to hard drive and processors speeds makes no sense whatsoever.
    Last edited by saintforlife; 11-15-14 at 06:55 AM.
    11-15-14 03:09 AM
  5. mona5804's Avatar
    Elite1 I'm not talking about specs wise but instead build and material quality. The z10 and the Q10 were poorly crafted devices (restarts, battery not staying in place). The first generation iphones build quality surpassed every phone blackberry has made except 9900 and Passport.

    The classic is no Bold. That's the hard truth. Waiting for mid 2015 maybe we will see a true successor.

    Windermere
    dylship likes this.
    11-15-14 03:54 AM
  6. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Elite1 I'm not talking about specs wise but instead build and material quality. The z10 and the Q10 were poorly crafted devices (restarts, battery not staying in place). The first generation iphones build quality surpassed every phone blackberry has made except 9900 and Passport.

    The classic is no Bold. That's the hard truth. Waiting for mid 2015 maybe we will see a true successor.
    You're opinion is noted and is subjective and we shall see. Criticism of BB10 device build quality is baffling to me: even the Q5 is a solid little device, and feels great in the hand.

    BlackBerry's biggest problem was never device build quality, despite complaints by the vocal minority: it was the perception that they were on the brink of bankruptcy. There is a market for devices that are not the absolute cutting edge of technology, and whether or not you believe it, most desktop computers at offices are not 5ghz quad core Xeons with 32 gig of ram 1 TB SSD and three dual-GPU video cards, and likewise most corporate supplied mobile devices are not top tier (hence the BYOD phenomenon where users would rather spend some of their own money to get something better) and even if they are, they don't stay that way past 6months (so these users are using last year's tech for two more years!). This is the stuff big corporate customers think about.

    BlackBerry is not going to win the BYOD race in handsets (at least not soon enough, and not before more have the "to know it is to love it" BB10 experience) so they're going to win the MDM software race instead, where they still have the lead. The myth of BYOD is unravelling after a few high profile reversals, so don't be surprised to see a lot more people carrying two devices... But in time, once users get their hands on a bb10 device for a while, they may find as most do that BB10 devices perform well despite their specs and are a pleasure to use. time will tell, but I think you're putting too much stock in the importance of 'specs' to their target customers (which isn't you or me despite our loyalty to BB)
    mona5804, Elite1 and Christoph7K like this.
    11-15-14 11:47 AM
  7. alternator77's Avatar
    If you want a qwerty flagship get a passport or Z30 touch if bb10 is the Os for you.

    Posted via CB10
    11-15-14 02:26 PM
  8. mona5804's Avatar
    Well put Ryan, I'm backing off.

    Windermere
    11-15-14 03:23 PM
  9. dale-c's Avatar
    I think the screen is fine. PPI is very important but only to a point.
    If it's a high quality LCD, as all reviewers have said, then it should not be a problem.
    The thing is, to get up over 300 PPI, something like 800x800 would be needed and that would only further complicate things for devs.

    As long as it has z30 specs I will be happy.

    Posted via CB10
    11-15-14 10:53 PM
  10. anon8656116's Avatar
    I think the screen is fine. PPI is very important but only to a point.
    If it's a high quality LCD, as all reviewers have said, then it should not be a problem.
    The thing is, to get up over 300 PPI, something like 800x800 would be needed and that would only further complicate things for devs.
    Since the 10.3 SDK it is much easier to produce resolution-independent UIs. Given that the Classic will have a, for BlackBerry 10, very unique set of controls with the tool belt, developers will have to adopt the 10.3.1 SDK to develop for the Classic. The Classic will have the same UI scaling factor as the Z30, which means that all apps optimised for the Z30 (as of 10.3 at least) should look good on the Classic. The UI components (e.g. title bars, action bars, menus, etc.) are smaller on the Classic than they are on the Q10, that may contribute a lot too.

    294 PPI is not too bad, it’s on the edge. 300 PPI isn’t even the ‘magic number’. That number presupposes a certain viewing distance and may thus vary from person to person and from device to device (smartphones vs. tablets). Whenever I see people with keyboard BlackBerries, I notice that they hold them much further away from their face. It would be better to see the screen first before passing judgment.
    anon1091977 likes this.
    11-16-14 01:23 AM
  11. aha's Avatar
    It's pretty low to me... but I am not the ones who call back the tool belt.
    11-16-14 01:26 AM
  12. Taigatrommel's Avatar
    Keep in mind we are talking about a pentile matrix SuperAMOLED screen on the Q10 vs. an LCD screen with a traditional RGB matrix. While pentile screens do have the same theoretical ppi numbers, the effecitve ppi your eye will see is indeed lower compared to RGB screens. It is something which is always mentioned on some of the better tech sites when it comes to reviews.

    The reason this is happening comes down to the subpixels. Pentile screens use two subpixels to (one small green + one large red or blue one) to form a pixel, RGB screens use three subpixels (equal sized red, green and blue) to form a pixel.
    On pentile, four pixels look like this: sG+lB|sG+lR|sG+lB|sG+lR
    On RGB, it's like this: R+G+B|R+G+B|R+G+B|R+G+B

    This is the reason why quite an amount of SuperAMOLED screens have always been mocked when it comes to display quality: If you have the same amount of ppi, the new AMOLED one looks worse compared to a common LCD display. Just search it up on the web, there are dozens of blog entries explaining the difference.

    The verdict is easy: The Q10 sure has a ppi of 328 while the Classic has only 290, a difference of a rather large 13%. However if we consider the amount of subpixels per inch, the Classic scores 1.555.200 vs. the Q10 which only scores, even with the smaller screen, only 1.036.800 subpixels per inch. So it's quite likely most people won't notice a difference of that some people might even enjoy the Classic's display more compared to the Q.

    Posted via CB10
    11-16-14 03:57 AM
  13. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    The first generation iphones build quality surpassed every phone blackberry has made except 9900 and Passport.
    Didn't know you've personally done an analysis of the build quality of every BlackBerry device ever made, assessed their failure rates etc.
    11-16-14 07:15 AM
  14. mikedolo's Avatar
    agreed. Its called the classic for a reason lol
    11-16-14 07:21 AM
  15. Edward in Toronto's Avatar
    The Classic isn't suppose to be a high end device. The initial price with drift down a lot over the next year, then it'll be a work horse for business and people who don't want the latest and greatest (like current Bold users).

    It's what the Q5 should have been.

    Just wait a year, I'm sure a high end phone with a belt on it is coming.
    11-16-14 08:44 AM
  16. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I'm blackberry for life brother. Who am I? I'm a tech geek who has seen far too many cell phones botched because of sub par specs. I have used every mobile platform there is (expect webos) even symbian.

    Windmere
    Let's not get carried away. The Classic is a corporate workhorse, not a high-spec device. That (relatively) low-rez screen will mean an improvement in battery life. Given this device's mission, that's a higher priority.
    11-16-14 09:41 AM
  17. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    Keep in mind we are talking about a pentile matrix SuperAMOLED screen on the Q10 vs. an LCD screen with a traditional RGB matrix. While pentile screens do have the same theoretical ppi numbers, the effecitve ppi your eye will see is indeed lower compared to RGB screens. It is something which is always mentioned on some of the better tech sites when it comes to reviews.

    The reason this is happening comes down to the subpixels. Pentile screens use two subpixels to (one small green + one large red or blue one) to form a pixel, RGB screens use three subpixels (equal sized red, green and blue) to form a pixel.
    On pentile, four pixels look like this: sG+lB|sG+lR|sG+lB|sG+lR
    On RGB, it's like this: R+G+B|R+G+B|R+G+B|R+G+B

    This is the reason why quite an amount of SuperAMOLED screens have always been mocked when it comes to display quality: If you have the same amount of ppi, the new AMOLED one looks worse compared to a common LCD display. Just search it up on the web, there are dozens of blog entries explaining the difference.

    The verdict is easy: The Q10 sure has a ppi of 328 while the Classic has only 290, a difference of a rather large 13%. However if we consider the amount of subpixels per inch, the Classic scores 1.555.200 vs. the Q10 which only scores, even with the smaller screen, only 1.036.800 subpixels per inch. So it's quite likely most people won't notice a difference of that some people might even enjoy the Classic's display more compared to the Q.

    Posted via CB10
    honestly i think 720x720 is dated and BB should look to 1024x1024 or 1080x1080 for the next gen classic.

    but you are right about amoled screens except when it comes to 1920 x1080 or 2160 x 1440 SAMOLED screens because at those resolutions the pentile matrix does not affect image quality and the difference between LCD and AMOLED basically cannot be seen.

    so the classic's screen should look fine or no different i have a Q10 and trust me that is not the best amoled screen out there when blacks are showing i see a slight bit of extremely grey .... a come from Samsung and still use their devices so i have seen the best amoleds they can produce and the Q10 screen is not all that.

    i'm not worried about the classics screen at all what u need to worry about is the next gen classic or the full bold/Q10 replacement with tool belt as the classic is just a device for now something they could whip up quickly and throw out until the other innovative devices and the higher end classic like devices can be built and tested with 10.4 os or sumthing .. 294 ppl is good enough
    11-16-14 10:02 AM
  18. slagman5's Avatar
    Keep in mind we are talking about a pentile matrix SuperAMOLED screen on the Q10 vs. an LCD screen with a traditional RGB matrix. While pentile screens do have the same theoretical ppi numbers, the effecitve ppi your eye will see is indeed lower compared to RGB screens. It is something which is always mentioned on some of the better tech sites when it comes to reviews.

    The reason this is happening comes down to the subpixels. Pentile screens use two subpixels to (one small green + one large red or blue one) to form a pixel, RGB screens use three subpixels (equal sized red, green and blue) to form a pixel.
    On pentile, four pixels look like this: sG+lB|sG+lR|sG+lB|sG+lR
    On RGB, it's like this: R+G+B|R+G+B|R+G+B|R+G+B

    This is the reason why quite an amount of SuperAMOLED screens have always been mocked when it comes to display quality: If you have the same amount of ppi, the new AMOLED one looks worse compared to a common LCD display. Just search it up on the web, there are dozens of blog entries explaining the difference.

    The verdict is easy: The Q10 sure has a ppi of 328 while the Classic has only 290, a difference of a rather large 13%. However if we consider the amount of subpixels per inch, the Classic scores 1.555.200 vs. the Q10 which only scores, even with the smaller screen, only 1.036.800 subpixels per inch. So it's quite likely most people won't notice a difference of that some people might even enjoy the Classic's display more compared to the Q.

    Posted via CB10
    Thanks for that explanation. :-)

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    11-16-14 10:29 AM
  19. draftex's Avatar
    You people who can see the pixels on a 294 ppi screen must be so happy for having such sharp eyes not sad for a low ppi screen. Wait till you're past 45 and you wont be able to tell the difference between 200 and 350 ppi even with your reading glasses on.

    Posted via CB10
    11-16-14 11:07 AM
  20. robert_in_la's Avatar
    That (relatively) low-rez screen will mean an improvement in battery life.
    That is not necessarily true - especially given its relatively small screen size. If anything its really related to keeping production cost down.
    11-16-14 11:33 AM
  21. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    That is not necessarily true - especially given its relatively small screen size. If anything its really related to keeping production cost down.
    Hey, lower cost is a good thing.
    11-16-14 11:53 AM
  22. Dubaix87's Avatar
    Preach.
    11-16-14 12:35 PM
  23. anon8656116's Avatar
    Hey, lower cost is a good thing.
    Good to see then that customers will see that in a lower price and don’t pay, say, $449 for it. I think you can accept that ‘corporate-workhorse’ argument only to some extent. A ‘retina-proof’ screen will have sharper text, which should make the phone more pleasurable to use in a work-related environment.
    mona5804 and MarsupilamiX like this.
    11-16-14 12:52 PM
  24. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I think 300ppi is just good enought for smatphones. I wonder why people want crazy ppi in their phones, it's like they do professional photography work in that tiny screen...

    I came from the Q10 to the passport with much higher resolution, and it doesn't make me any difference when I pick the Q10, to me it is as sharp for normal use.

    I wonder the usage advantages people here would get in having 500ppi in the Classic. Is a workphone, to read texts, emails and make calls, not to brag about the specs in the bar. Lower resolution makes up for better battery life, and that's A LOT more important for the target of this phone.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    11-16-14 12:57 PM
  25. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    That is not necessarily true - especially given its relatively small screen size. If anything its really related to keeping production cost down.
    It IS true... higher resolution means that the processor has to work harder to process the information to display in those pixels. Less resolution, less strain in the processor

    Several LG G3 (with 2.5k display) owners have lowered they resolution to 1080p and saw a significant improvement in battery life.
    11-16-14 01:12 PM
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