[kram941]

Compared to the competition, those are extremely minor upgrades. Only a RIM fanboy would compare devices only among its brand. That's just stupid consumerism.

No offense to you, but that is one of the most ridiculous and idiotic things I've read in a long time.

I'm only referring to people who currently own a 9630 (which is a majority of the people upgrading to the 9650). If you own a 8330 or 8830 then I have absolutely no issue with upgrading to the 9650.

One last thing: Everyone who keeps saying that RIM's sole focus is the business-professional crowd needs to understand this: RIM's success in the consumer market is becoming a burden on them. Most of the people complaining are relatively new BlackBerry users who were suckered into the platform because they wanted to look cool and hip. Well now they see the competition is stepping up big time and they are (rightly) expecting RIM to step up as well. Unfortunately, they are, but extremely slowly. RIM cannot simply attain this consumer market and just expect it to stick around. They won't. They aren't.

hahahaha. Alright Im no were near a RIM fanboy. I talk **** about my storm all the time. I say it almost every day that I would drop BB if Apple put out a CDMA phoen for verizon. Only reason I am getting another BB is because I want to try a keyboard phone for a while because I am a heavy texter and use my phone for lots of email. This will probably be my last BB unless OS 6 is a game changer.

And when did I compare this phone to only RIM products? I don't recall doing that. I said for people not to compare it to phone like the EVO. It is not the same type of phone. If you are going to compare it to a phone then compare it to something like a Palmpixi or a HTC Ozone.

And the camera comment... Why would you put the most powerful camera in a phone that isn't designed for multimedia and taking pictures and videos. It would just increase the costs of the phone. It's like putting a Viper engine in a minivan. (Yes horrible comparison, I know) I personally don't see the logic of putting a more expensive camera in THIS phone. ESPECIALLY when the 3.2 MP camera takes great quality pictures. Do you think the majority of the people(not the crackberry community) that are going to buy this phone are going buy it because of the camera? Or even that camera mega pixel has a big impact on their decision to buy this phone or not. I doubt it. I really just don't see why would RIM would put a 8MP camera in THIS, I say again, THIS phone. Storm line, sure go ahead cause that phone is in the same market area as the EVO.

[jorGeorge]

And when did I compare this phone to only RIM products? I don't recall doing that. I said for people not to compare it to phone like the EVO. It is not the same type of phone. If you are going to compare it to a phone then compare it to something like a Palmpixi or a HTC Ozone.

It actually doesn't even matter what you were comparing it to. The upgrades are minor compared to any device.

And the camera comment... Why would you put the most powerful camera in a phone that isn't designed for multimedia and taking pictures and videos.

This is wrong. RIM markets these phones as an all around smartphone. Just because their specialty is email does not mean it can't have a great camera or media interface. RIM would even disagree with you on that one...

It would just increase the costs of the phone. It's like putting a Viper engine in a minivan. (Yes horrible comparison, I know) I personally don't see the logic of putting a more expensive camera in THIS phone. ESPECIALLY when the 3.2 MP camera takes great quality pictures. Do you think the majority of the people(not the crackberry community) that are going to buy this phone are going buy it because of the camera? Or even that camera mega pixel has a big impact on their decision to buy this phone or not. I doubt it. I really just don't see why would RIM would put a 8MP camera in THIS, I say again, THIS phone. Storm line, sure go ahead cause that phone is in the same market area as the EVO.

Why would you settle for great pictures when you can have BETTER pictures? Come on man, this is common sense. If you can't see the logic in constant improvement, then there is really no point in discussing this any further.

[kram941]

Alright agree to disagree.

[9of13]

all this over a phone again???? Ok. here's my 2 cents.

Remember when the...
...9700 was announced? who beefed? 9000 users. "Oh. it looks nothing like the Bold 9000 so why call it a Bold. it looks like a curve"

...8220 came out? "Its a flip" what is this? 2002?"

...Tour came out? "Its a Curve"

Now the 9650. ok, so its no longer a "Tour". so it took RIM a few extra months, an upgraded device and a name change to possibly get this right. And? Ok, so current tour owners may get mad cause theyre not able to upgrade yet. And?
Im a Bold 9700 user. am i mad because 6 months later a new Bold is coming out with twice the momory? no. Why? 1) the 9700 was a big upgrade from the Pearl and Pearl Flip i used for almost 3 years. 2) it does what i want it to do. If the phone doesnt do what u want it to do, u look to a different phone and not bash the manufacturer. Like many have said above, if your using like a Pearl, Curve 83's or a Storm 1, sure, its an upgrade.
i can see why current Tour owners can feel a little ticked off. Most just got theirs. and now something new and shiny came out. You dont need more upgrades. you need to research and find one worth your money! we ALL know theres always a new device around the corner. So why buy on impulse? You know who i feel should feel angry? iPhone users! didnt they JUST get MMS? isnt the fact than an issue with the battery requires the phone to be repleced or "serviced" and every 'Upgrade' seems to be the exact same model, every year, not economical?! " oh, i can watch youtube and got all these games and stuff". I can watch youtube. if i want games, ill get a PSP. atleast RIM has a whole line up of devices. but i dont hear Apple users getting mad. Who else i feel should be mad? WinMo users. Ive used a windows device. went right back to blackberry. so many manufacturers, same OS, 15 mins wait for an email. Blue-screen-of-death capable. There are oxymorons in our language: "freezer burn", "jumbo shrimp" and "Microsoft works". But those of us who use Windows on PC may find it useful. And how often they(Microsoft) upgrade their OS? i dont hear WinMo users getting mad. and the phone works for them. im mad at sidekick users. Your 40! get a grown phone! But ita a simpler phone and it works for them.... just like iPhone works for its users and WinMo for theirs. WHy is it only phones get all this much gripe? theres better things to beef about! like bad brakes on a car. service cuts and fare hikes on public transit. the ECONOMY!
Have we, being BB users become like the hipsters that have invaded Brooklyn? Too down to earth for the upper east side but to "foo-foo" to really move to the hood?
Point being, theres always bashing and theres always gonna be bashing. people are gonna bash on things not out yet or something else that just came out, especially when its so close to when they got their "new" device.
Why?
Because "the grass is always greener on the other side".

Have you ever flipped grass over??

[JR_Rider]

All I am saying is my renewal is coming up before the 9650 drops and I must honestly say if I do upgrade it won't be to the 9650. The upgrades to the device are so minor that it's honestly not worth signing a new contract. I will be waiting to see what Apple announces and compare the new iPhone to the HTC Incredible. While there are many things that Blackberrys do exceptionally well I don't feel RIM is making enough progress to remain competitive. RIM has great sales right now but if/when the iPhone is released on Verizon I can assure you that they will face the biggest competition in their history. Then we will see who is really doing a better job of giving the customers what we actually want. I for one know I want an all in one device.

[TheScionicMan]

I'm only referring to people who currently own a 9630 (which is a majority of the people upgrading to the 9650). If you own a 8330 or 8830 then I have absolutely no issue with upgrading to the 9650.

I find that extremely hard to believe. That's not how product cycles work. RIM didn't rush out the Storm2 or the 9650 to quickly replace terrible devices. Most Tour owners aren't impatiently waiting for a new phone 6 months after their last one, Storm2's weren't sold just as replacements to Storms. That's a crackberry enthusiast aberration. Most consumers are not going to look at the 9630 and the 9650 and say "This 9650 only has minor upgrades over the previous model, so I don't want it." They will look at available models and say "I like this one or that one" Outside of the BB fanatic community, most people aren't buying phones outside of their upgrade cycle to have the latest, greatest and then do it again 6 months later.

And as far as fanboyism goes, whoever brought that up, tell it to the people preaching the perfection of the EVO when they haven't even touched one yet or had any real world reviews... Physician, heal thyself...

[jorGeorge]

We are mostly referring to 9630 users who are upgrading to the 9650. Just because your typical consumer won't realize what RIM is pulling doesn't make it right.

[TheScionicMan]

We are mostly referring to 9630 users who are upgrading to the 9650. Just because your typical consumer won't realize what RIM is pulling doesn't make it right.

They're not "pulling" anything except doing the same thing that every company that makes a product does. If BB services ONLY worked on the newest device and you HAD to buy a new one every time they put one out, then I could kinda see your point. But they don't and most users ride their phones out until they are eligible for an upgrade. Most people aren't going to pay $400-600 for a newer phone when their current one is less than a year or 2 old, especially when they can wait until the 2 years is up and get the newest phone then for $200. The number of 9630 users going to the 9650 is probably going to be very small especially compared to the number of people with older phones that are now eligible for a new phone and the BB is one of the options.

[jorGeorge]

They're not "pulling" anything except doing the same thing that every company that makes a product does. If BB services ONLY worked on the newest device and you HAD to buy a new one every time they put one out, then I could kinda see your point. But they don't and most users ride their phones out until they are eligible for an upgrade. Most people aren't going to pay $400-600 for a newer phone when their current one is less than a year or 2 old, especially when they can wait until the 2 years is up and get the newest phone then for $200. The number of 9630 users going to the 9650 is probably going to be very small especially compared to the number of people with older phones that are now eligible for a new phone and the BB is one of the options.

Whether people buy the device is going to be seen in a matter of time. I personally don't think the device will sell well, and I hope it doesn't. These upgrades are insulting and take advantage of a customer who isn't fully in the know. Just because other businesses do the same doesn't make it right. And I also still think the 9650 won't be a popular device because most people who were interested in a BlackBerry over the past year or so either jumped on the 9630, Storm, or 8530. I just don't see where the market is for this phone...

[auero]

As a tour owner, I don't see the purpose in upgrading to a device I already paid for once. Wifi and an optical track pad aren't things I NEED to have. Sure I'd want it but why spend the money and/or sign another contract. This update took the tour and fixed its flaws, thats pretty much it.

I can't see how people can be angry about a phone not being to their expectations when the tour hasn't been out for a year. Then some say "RIM is going in the wrong direction and they're going down, blah blah blah"

Reality is, people are going to buy blackberry's regardless and RIM will make money. I see them becoming so trendy here (mostly because of BBM) that even 14 year olds are carrying them.

[jaydee5799]

Whether people buy the device is going to be seen in a matter of time. I personally don't think the device will sell well, and I hope it doesn't. These upgrades are insulting and take advantage of a customer who isn't fully in the know. Just because other businesses do the same doesn't make it right. And I also still think the 9650 won't be a popular device because most people who were interested in a BlackBerry over the past year or so either jumped on the 9630, Storm, or 8530. I just don't see where the market is for this phone...

Really? I respectfully disagree! How many Curve 8330 owners like me are pulling batteries three and four times a day? You don't think a FEW of us might want to switch to the 9650? I think, on the contrary, as much as you all want to "teach RIM a lesson" etc, this phone WILL sell simply because many of us did not/ or did not have the upgrade/ chance to move to a 8530 (which is a downgrade for me) or a Tour with a faulty trackball.

But this is just my opinion.

[MurrayHR]

I'm only referring to people who currently own a 9630 (which is a majority of the people upgrading to the 9650). If you own a 8330 or 8830 then I have absolutely no issue with upgrading to the 9650.

How do you know that the majority of upgraders will be Tour owners and not Curve owners? Most Tour owners are still under their 2-year contract and are not eligible for a discounted upgrade. Most Curve owners are free agents and can upgrade for less. You are probably correct that the majority of people in THIS forum are Tour owners, but that is not representative of the majority of BB owners.

[MurrayHR]

Really? I respectfully disagree! How many Curve 8330 owners like me are pulling batteries three and four times a day? You don't think a FEW of us might want to switch to the 9650? I think, on the contrary, as much as you all want to "teach RIM a lesson" etc, this phone WILL sell simply because many of us did not/ or did not have the upgrade/ chance to move to a 8530 (which is a downgrade for me) or a Tour with a faulty trackball.

+1, you go girl! Couldn't agree more.

[v_sprad]

Really? I respectfully disagree! How many Curve 8330 owners like me are pulling batteries three and four times a day? You don't think a FEW of us might want to switch to the 9650? I think, on the contrary, as much as you all want to "teach RIM a lesson" etc, this phone WILL sell simply because many of us did not/ or did not have the upgrade/ chance to move to a 8530 (which is a downgrade for me) or a Tour with a faulty trackball.

But this is just my opinion.

With all due respect, perhaps if you weren't running a Hybrid OS, you wouldn't need to pull your battery 4 times a day.

lol

[kbell]

I usually just lurk around to read the rumor mill.
I am a curve owner. My trackball has stuck a couple of times over the years, but came clear, otherwise I have had no issues with Blackberry.
I will be upgrading to the Bold 9650 when ever they release it. I've been due for an upgrade since January. I don't really care that much that this has been postponed a bit... I have a BB already, it's not like I'm losing out on something huge, it's just an upgrade.

I just don't understand why people need to whine and complain that RIM somehow "duped" them because they have upgraded a device?????
Explain how this means RIM has wronged you???

This happens in every industry. If you want the latest greatest then dish out full retail. Technology is constantly emerging. You can never predict exactly when or if an upgrade is coming. Deal with it. Get over it. It will happen again - that's for sure.

[dr sauch]

I've noticed a lot of members here are really pissed off

My friend, welcome to the internet. I read some posts on this and other forums, and I think "Who ARE these people?" I don't actually know anyone in real life who is as angry, misanthropic, and enraged as some of these anonymous internet trolls. I think there's a piece coming out in the NYT about it at some point in the future. I was on Aint It Cool News, and one of the mods said that an NYT reporter was looking to interview members of the forums there (also a seething bed of hatred and insane rage) about the amount of anger on the internet.

[MsRandall]

As a first day adopter of the Sprint Tour I am not MAD what I decided, I am going to explore ALL my options fully. Before my last Tour experience I bought the Blackberry name as I loyal. I use BBM alot and have 100 bbm buddies last year compared to 52 today. Many have already left RIM.

Somewhere between the 4 tours I returned for trackball issues and the lack of having a workhouse phone with fun features- I decided I wanted it all. So I am going to date the EVO when it is released although I know I will have to get used to touchscreen again- Only if the EVO doesnt work out would I go back to Blackberry. I dont plan on selling my Tour like I usually do when something newer come out.

[lnichols]

Well given that they still have QA issues with the 9630, which has been out for almost 9 months, I won't upgrade to any new RIM products till other people beta test, if at all. I just had my 9630 (that I got on first day released) with crap trackball and low mic replaced a week ago with a brand new 9630, tried to put in a headphone jack a few days ago and it will only go in half way no matter how hard I push on it. Totally inexcusable for something like this to pass through QA this late in the production cycle, much less the mic and trackball issues happening in the first place. Not like the headphone jack is a new technology and its the same on every phone.

Given that OS6 video showed like it was heavily enhanced for a large touch screen device, that seemingly didn't have surepress, I'll wait and see what comes out. The 9650 isn't a big enough upgrade IMHO to justify getting it, and I can upgrade yearly on my account.

[thinkamp]

It's just a phone...I don't know why people get their panties/manties in a bunch.

[jaydee5799]

With all due respect, perhaps if you weren't running a Hybrid OS, you wouldn't need to pull your battery 4 times a day.

lol

With all due respect, you know nothing about my hybrid obviously. I am Verizon customer and I have all the chirps and squelches from the regular OS. I have no choice but to install the latest 4.5 OS for my Curve and then swap radio files from 4.5.0.131 (note...an OS from about 2 years ago) to use my phone.

If you thought your smart alecky comment was to reprimand me for using a hybrid like Nathanix or something else on 5.0, you are mistaken. Read my info. A verizon customer has NO CHOICE but to make the best of a bad situation.

With all due respect

[jorGeorge]

Really? I respectfully disagree! How many Curve 8330 owners like me are pulling batteries three and four times a day? You don't think a FEW of us might want to switch to the 9650? I think, on the contrary, as much as you all want to "teach RIM a lesson" etc, this phone WILL sell simply because many of us did not/ or did not have the upgrade/ chance to move to a 8530 (which is a downgrade for me) or a Tour with a faulty trackball.

But this is just my opinion.

Like I've said before, if you're still on a 8830 or 8330, the 9650 is a great choice. It's only when you compare it to the 9630 does it become apparent how little features were added or upgraded. Any OS will have problems working on a Verizon BlackBerry, it's simply because of compatibility issues with the CDMA technology. The main issue I have with the 9650 is how most of the new features should have been on the original 9630. One year later and this is all you added to the device? Please don't tell me it doesn't need any more features than it already has, that is a mind boggling argument.

And yes, I was wrong in the assumption many new 9650 owners were upgrading from the 9630. I'm just getting that impression from a majority of the people on this forum.

[tedzone]

I've noticed a lot of members here are really pissed off with the 9650 and not calling it a 'true' Bold. I seriously don't get it. The 9650 is closer in looks and specs to the 9000 than the 9700 (sorry 9700 owners it's a nice BB but more like a curve than a Bold to me). With 512 application memory and rumored to be 6-oh ready the 9650 will be the primer BB to own at the moment, yet most everyone is saying it's not a 9700. Damn right its not, its better. Is it a CDMA thing?

The whole planet is on GSM. When are those verizon and sprint people gonna join the party? Even the ******* at Bell (Canada) finally gave up on their CDMA story

[TheScionicMan]

The whole planet is on GSM. When are those verizon and sprint people gonna join the party? Even the ******* at Bell (Canada) finally gave up on their CDMA story

You're right! They should shut everything down right now and quickly switch all of their cell towers to GSM and ship replacement devices to their millions of customers. You should email them that suggestion so they can save their business before its too late and they start converting things to LTE first...

[kram941]

You're right! They should shut everything down right now and quickly switch all of their cell towers to GSM and ship replacement devices to their millions of customers. You should email them that suggestion so they can save their business before its too late and they start converting things to LTE first...

That sounds like a reasonable solution.

[TheScionicMan]

The main issue I have with the 9650 is how most of the new features should have been on the original 9630. One year later and this is all you added to the device?

They say BB development is on a two-year cycle. So these features they omitted, according to you, may have not been available until late in the development cycle. They can't keep changing parts or else it will never make it to market. Some people are complaining it doesn't have Wireless N, but that chipset was only released around the end of last year. Do you want them to quickly rush things to get it out? That's what some people blame the Tour's problems on...