[howarmat]

i think the thinner phone is more priority over the camera. Sure some RIM people would have mentioned the benefits of the AF camera but then again, most are not going to consider this a deal breaker and 80% of the general public probably wont notice the different at all. If anything they will just think "the camera isnt too good" but beyond that it wont matter that much because they already bought the phone.

[omgitsalive]

I believe the point being made is that the Bold is considered the Cadillac of Blackberry smartphones. This being said, not having auto focus is like a downgrade to an otherwise kick a__ smartphone.

The point being made is that it's SEVENTEEN pages of babbling about something most of us have jack sh*t knowledge of

If I get the Torch, then I wonder what I will be giving up on it versus the Bold.

NFC and form factor mostly.

I would be curious as to what research was done, if any, and I want to know who told them that they wanted a fuzzy 5 MP camera so they could make it a little thinner. I would have told them that I want it thinner and auto focus, make it happen!

Go ahead and tell them already! but if your smartphone camera is that important to you, go buy a freakin' Sony(-Ericsson) and stop complaining.

[cold war kid]

i think the thinner phone is more priority over the camera. Sure some RIM people would have mentioned the benefits of the AF camera but then again, most are not going to consider this a deal breaker and 80% of the general public probably wont notice the different at all. If anything they will just think "the camera isnt too good" but beyond that it wont matter that much because they already bought the phone.

This is actually the only sense I can make of this. RIM figured that just like the average consumer believes that their phones are ALREADY 4G*, the average consumer doesn't know the difference between an Autofocus camera and a Fixed Focus camera; let alone care.

*33% of iPhone owners think their phones already have 4G service | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

[omgitsalive]

About 'business use' of a smartphone camera. For copying / mailing signed contracts & other (legal) documents you really SHOULD use a scanner. For taking important (insurance?) photo's, you really SHOULD use a camera.

It's not RIM overlooking business use cases. It's called being serious about your business.

[omgitsalive]

This is actually the only sense I can make of this. RIM figured that just like the average consumer believes that their phones are ALREADY 4G*, the average consumer doesn't know the difference between an Autofocus camera and a Fixed Focus camera; let alone care.

*33% of iPhone owners think their phones already have 4G service | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

lol, that looks like something which would really only happen to an average iphone owner indeed Android & BB users *should* know better!

[pythons]

About 'business use' of a smartphone camera. For copying / mailing signed contracts & other (legal) documents you really SHOULD use a scanner. For taking important (insurance?) photo's, you really SHOULD use a camera.

It's not RIM overlooking business use cases. It's called being serious about your business.

If Droid and Apple were producing shibboleth cameras in their flagship business devices you would have a point...
...As it stands RIM's lack of business support in this area is simply more evidence of it's cuckold status.
...As evidenced that Droid and Apple are cleaning RIM's collective clock and each sport quality cameras.

I use a camera to aid in the execution of my job daily - from taking pictures of damaged cars to seeing how something I'm going to take apart is connected - it can be text on paper to something put on a dry erase board - literally ANYTHING I used to take paper and pen notes for.

Why do I use my phone for those things? It simply makes my life easier and frankly I can think of no more idiotic apologetic to offer as to why RIM didn't put AF in it's flagship device than to wax eloquent that cameras are for pictures and scanners are for documents - in the age we live in that mindset is no different then the ancient vikings belief that yelling at a solar eclipse would bring the sun back.

The ancient Vikings had an excuse for believing that - in 2011 with Apple and Droid taking Great White Shark SIZE bites out of RIM, you don't. I'm stunned that SO MANY people here on this form have adopted this cuckold attitude as to why RIM fails to do this or that, just stunned.

There are many of us here that are currently using BB's and do not want to see RIM go the way of the Dino - at this point RIM needs some harsh critics out of the camp of people using their devices. I'm not using an iphone or a droid, I'm using a Bold 9650.

I've watched the MAJORITY of business users dump ( yeah, as in bowel movement ) their RIM devices....
...Simply because RIM said if you want to do such and such go buy such and such.
...Well, the business community took that seriously and went and bought iphones and droids, in DROVES.

A man in his right mind wouldn't urge his wife to bring home strange men and then offer to help "push" those men into his wife!
..This is exactly what RIM has been doing the last two years.
..And it's by suggesting people just go buy another product OTHER than RIM.

If I was in charge of RIM ANY meeting where it was suggested RIM should provide something that the other guys are doing I would take note and EVERY person who said; Oh, those folks should just go buy a camera or scanner would be FIRED ON THE SPOT.

I mean seriously, those people would be happier in a cuckold forum community than in a company that wants to compete for the business of corporate america.

[the.ak.hermit]

Will someone that has the new Bold please do some comparison shots between it and one of the auto focus Blackberry phones that has at least a 3MP
camera? Up close, with and without bright light. That would put the thread to rest, and help people that are on the fence between the Bold and Torch.

I know there are people out there that have this phone already, so help us solve the mystery.

[Tre Lawrence]

About 'business use' of a smartphone camera. For copying / mailing signed contracts & other (legal) documents you really SHOULD use a scanner. For taking important (insurance?) photo's, you really SHOULD use a camera.

It's not RIM overlooking business use cases. It's called being serious about your business.

The problem here is that you are defining other people's business needs by your NARROW standards.

Why stop at scanners? Why not demand the "real" thing? How about this: I think "serious" business people eschew email for in-person meetings.

See what I mean?

Think outside the box a little. If your clients and/or business clients require you to lug around professional Hollywood cameras and professional grade scanners, don't think that people who don't are not "serious" about their business. Quite the opposite... if I was doing somebody who could handle his/her business on the spot with a convergent device, I would probably be satisfied with his/her ability to get things done efficiently.

If you say that the quality of a camera on a device wouldn't be the deciding factor for your purchase, I'd actually agree with you; still, neither you or I should foist our ideas of serious work on any other individual.

[pythons]

Will someone that has the new Bold please do some comparison shots between it and one of the auto focus Blackberry phones that has at least a 3MP
camera? Up close, with and without bright light. That would put the thread to rest, and help people that are on the fence between the Bold and Torch.

I know there are people out there that have this phone already, so help us solve the mystery.

At this point I think we have as much of a chance of that happening as a pedophile would produce the evidence they have molested children. There are SEVERAL people on the forum who have these devices already and I'm very sure many of them have taken scores of pictures, only the results have been the same as wsg was brave enough to post.

[chaseh140]

Vodafone has it listed as having an auto focus camera. BlackBerry Bold 9900 - Buy the Bold 9900 in Black on Vodafone

[[email protected]]

A camera on a cell phone is not the defining factor (i.e. a camera is not a cell phone's engine in your parlance). C'mon, let's get real here! Yes this is a flagship device, but it's geared to business people first and foremost (at least it seems so, dunno, could be wrong and RIM itself doesn't know who their market is anymore). So the phone's got a camera .... but it doesn't autofocus. Good God! What's happening on this planet? Wars, economic mayhem, no auto-focus on a telephone!

You're missing the point entirely!

All of those who are bashing RIM will make this a feeding frenzy......an it makes no sense. I will tell you this, more people actually use their camera on their phone. I haven't carried a camera in four years, no need, since my Blackberry's have taken excellent pictures....but not this one.

I will pass on the 9900 for this reason alone.

It forces me to carry two devices now, my smartphone and my camera.

No thanks.

[Phill_UK]

Vodafone has it listed as having an auto focus camera. BlackBerry Bold 9900 - Buy the Bold 9900 in Black on Vodafone

They have, and they're wrong... it's all focus (EDoF)

[kevinnugent]

Give you an idea of why this phone won't work for the business I work for. (12,000 + staff.)

Sales people need to get copies of I.D. for when they open accounts for new customers. Up until now they would take a photo of the drivers licence and other ID as required and email the photographic evidence to their own offices to be printed out later. Simple process and works really well.

They won't be able to do that with the 9900. They won't buy 9810's or 9850's as they've always bought Bolds.

They will probably get iPhones. They aren't the best camera example, but it's yet another reason to go with the ever increasing tide towards iOS. Simple.

[joju58]

hope this is a reason that at&t delays to release this phone and asked RIM to put AF option on it.....i know, i know just hopping

[pythons]

Give you an idea of why this phone won't work for the business I work for. (12,000 + staff.)

Sales people need to get copies of I.D. for when they open accounts for new customers. Up until now they would take a photo of the drivers licence and other ID as required and email the photographic evidence to their own offices to be printed out later. Simple process and works really well.

They won't be able to do that with the 9900. They won't buy 9810's or 9850's as they've always bought Bolds.

They will probably get iPhones. They aren't the best camera example, but it's yet another reason to go with the ever increasing tide towards iOS. Simple.

Exact same thing I've witnessed taking place in my business sector....
...RIM just seems to not be getting it.

[BBOttawa]

The 9810 still has auto focus right?

[Phill_UK]

The 9810 still has auto focus right?

Yes... and the 9850/9860 has

[omgitsalive]

Think outside the box a little. If your clients and/or business clients require you to lug around professional Hollywood cameras and professional grade scanners, don't think that people who don't are not "serious" about their business. Quite the opposite... if I was doing somebody who could handle his/her business on the spot with a convergent device, I would probably be satisfied with his/her ability to get things done efficiently.

Believe it or not, but I love thinking out of the box.

But 'quality' is the key word here. If your copy or photo needs the absolute best business quality, don't go hobbying around with an iPhone 'yeah it takes good pictures too!'.

If it doesn't need top notch quality, then any smartphone camera will do, or even the crap iPad 2 cam.

All this ruckus about a camera feature destroying RIMs future and making business impossible is quite narrow-minded actually.

[Masahiro]

All this ruckus about a camera feature destroying RIMs future and making business impossible is quite narrow-minded actually.

You know, the funny thing is that some businesses require that your phone does not come equipped with a camera at all. The Bolds and the HTC Snap (Windows Mobile) are the only two smart phones on the market that come with that option (source).

Now on the far opposite end of the spectrum, we have those that claim the lack of auto-focus on the camera destroys its usefulness in business.

[omgitsalive]

If Droid and Apple were producing shibboleth cameras in their flagship business devices you would have a point...
...As it stands RIM's lack of business support in this area is simply more evidence of it's cuckold status.
...As evidenced that Droid and Apple are cleaning RIM's collective clock and each sport quality cameras.

Real tight evidence there! RIMs market share was declining lately because one of their new phones doesn't have AF. Riiiiiggghhhtttt.......

I use a camera to aid in the execution of my job daily - from taking pictures of damaged cars to seeing how something I'm going to take apart is connected

I can't judge how the bold camera holds up here, and neither can you.

it can be text on paper to something put on a dry erase board

Actually I reckon an all focus camera should be better to capture the entire whiteboard...

literally ANYTHING I used to take paper and pen notes for.

Buy a PlayBook http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...eeting-635412/

in the age we live in that mindset is no different then the ancient vikings belief that yelling at a solar eclipse would bring the sun back.

The ancient Vikings had an excuse for believing that - in 2011 with Apple and Droid taking Great White Shark SIZE bites out of RIM, you don't. I'm stunned that SO MANY people here on this form have adopted this cuckold attitude as to why RIM fails to do this or that, just stunned.

There are many of us here that are currently using BB's and do not want to see RIM go the way of the Dino - at this point RIM needs some harsh critics out of the camp of people using their devices. I'm not using an iphone or a droid, I'm using a Bold 9650.

I've watched the MAJORITY of business users dump ( yeah, as in bowel movement ) their RIM devices....
...Simply because RIM said if you want to do such and such go buy such and such.
...Well, the business community took that seriously and went and bought iphones and droids, in DROVES.

A man in his right mind wouldn't urge his wife to bring home strange men and then offer to help "push" those men into his wife!
..This is exactly what RIM has been doing the last two years.
..And it's by suggesting people just go buy another product OTHER than RIM.

If I was in charge of RIM ANY meeting where it was suggested RIM should provide something that the other guys are doing I would take note and EVERY person who said; Oh, those folks should just go buy a camera or scanner would be FIRED ON THE SPOT.

I mean seriously, those people would be happier in a cuckold forum community than in a company that wants to compete for the business of corporate america.

No time to respond to this further

[Tre Lawrence]

Believe it or not, but I love thinking out of the box.

But 'quality' is the key word here. If your copy or photo needs the absolute best business quality, don't go hobbying around with an iPhone 'yeah it takes good pictures too!'.

If it doesn't need top notch quality, then any smartphone camera will do, or even the crap iPad 2 cam.

All this ruckus about a camera feature destroying RIMs future and making business impossible is quite narrow-minded actually.

Fair enough... I won't argue with the point in bold; I don't think it makes business impossible for everyone, but I also think tha folks who say it is something they need have a valid issue as well.

[olblueyez]

Maybe the 9900/9930 dont have AutoFocus but the 9850/9860 doesn't support WiFi 5Ghz A&N.

"IF" Anyone has a modern network at home they will want the 9900/9930. That mean RIM is screwed? Nope.

It's all about price points,"User Types", and getting what you pay for. Androids are garbage produced by many companies and Apple gets you in the front and the rear.

You wanna Keyboard and top notch wireless? Or, do you want a multi-media type smartphone? RIM could have designed a 10mm thick slider with a 4" screen, AutoFocus, 5Ghz wireless, and NFC and double the battery life. HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THE G0DDAMN THING WOULD COST?

Shut up and Read up!!! That way you can get the best phone for yourself. There is no "BEST PHONE" for everyone.

I am sticking with RIM and leaving all the bootloader & mind control $hit for the droid and apple fanboys.

Nite Ladies & Germs!

[belfastdispatcher]

I really don't see what the big deal is, the 9900 still has a Close-up mode to use and I'm sure it will still take decent photos, just the way an AF camera BB has the Sports mode to help with reducing focus time and take faster shots.
Sure, I do take photos of documents for work sometimes but I much prefer to have the best quality when I take photos of my kids, and they rarely sit still.

Best of all, now it has HD video recording with image stabilization.

Sometimes you can't have it all and everything is a compromise.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[pythons]

Real tight evidence there! RIMs market share was declining lately because one of their new phones doesn't have AF. Riiiiiggghhhtttt.......

That new phone isn't "out yet" so it's not effecting RIM's stock prices now but the lack of an AF certainly WILL...
...A companies stock price reflects what the market thinks of it's products.
...No one here with the ability to read has any confusion over what the market has been thinking of RIM.
...It's a collective grading scale and a MINUS is a MINUS no matter how you try to slice it.

I can't judge how the bold camera holds up here, and neither can you.

If as others have said; that the Bold 9900/30 camera IS the playbook camera...
...The camera has absolutely been judged and found to be wanting in the worst possible way.
...If we look at it from a "business perspective".


It would be logical to expect that a flagship business phone would be able to handle those types of still shots that are common-place in 98% of the business world - such as taking pictures of RMA slips, DL's for the HR dept, personal notes, pictures such as are required for damage reports, etc. All of those things are difficult with a fixed focus camera and that's exactly what EDOF is - a fixed focus CHEAP camera tech.

If you don't think the Review Apes will clobber the Bold 9900 because of it's EDOF....
...Just wait and see - they will.

In this day and age the consumer expects the new and improved models to actually be new and improved....
...In the case of the 9900 RIM went backwards on the camera.


RIM already had & has the best keyboard, email push, battery life and form factor of ANY phone....
...They didn't have all that much to do to put out a better phone,, Just add.
...Touch screen, more power, better browser.

What in the world was RIM thinkng when it opted to put an EDOF camera in it's PREMIER business phone?
....I don't view my blackberry as a social fun machine, it's simply a tool to aid in the execution of my job.
...And a big part of that job requires a decent camera.

I wasn't expecting the 9930 ( that isn't even out yet ) to be on par with my Canon 10D DSLR...
...I certainly expected the 9930 to be able to take AS GOOD of pictures as my aged bold 9650.
...And from the water temp on crackberry the majority of other BB fans expected the same thing.

Yeah, the cuckold shoe currently fits for RIM and it would be funny if it wasn't happening to my favorite smartphone maker...
..."Tales of Canterbury" anyone!

[JasW]

Maybe the 9900/9930 dont have AutoFocus but the 9850/9860 dont support WiFi 5Ghz A&N.

Anyone with a modern network at home will want the 9900/9930.

Only if your home is a studio apartment rife with 2.4GHz interference. Having 5GHz in my home wouldn't cut it because of its limited range as compared to 2.4GHz. I receive an attenuated enough signal as it is on my patio with 2.4. Given the choice between autofocus and 802.11a support, I'll take the autofocus, thanks. Not that it's necessarily a dealbreaker, though.