07-16-09 09:48 PM
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  1. dpperk29#AC's Avatar
    Haven't had to deal with flexing ti for anything that large, but have had to do it for some special projects and yes....it is a *****. I would guess that you guys are most likely not allowed to heat it up in order to bend it either. As long as the Ti is anodized after you can heat and bend it without ever being able to tell it was done that way. It makes it a **** of a lot easier to work with. I guess you could also bead blast it after heating it, but again....for a part as large as what you are working with it would be hard to find a blasting cabinet that big....
    not trying to light up a flame war, but from an engineering standpoint, if I design something using a certain grade of titanium with a certain temper on it, they sure as **** better not heat it up beyond operating temperature during assembly. The plain and simple truth is that it can alter materials properties and lead to failure. This is especially dangerous in the aerospace industry where the factors of safety are extremely small compared to what they are in other industries.
    05-14-09 03:55 PM
  2. Croe's Avatar
    Ok...I finally got the screws sized and should have a price later today or first thing in the morning as well as exact specs on the screws for those that have tried to look up the info but had no luck. That's the main reason I am doing this...I wanted some higher quality parts and when I began researching I could find no measurements, thread counts etc...

    The Ti bezel and door will take a bit of time.

    And to the last poster...yes Ti is a metal as has been pointed out, but completely different in make up than any other. Non-corrosive, no magnetic signature, stronger than the POS screws RIM uses, and its sheilding properties are minimal (not that it really matters as it should not affect the radio signal in any way according to my engineer. He bulds a lot of RC parts and frames with Ti and has never had a problem with frequency transmission for radio controllers on planes, cars, or helicopters.

    There are also other materials that can be tried on my end as they have been used for electronics previously with no issue, such as the completely encased all aluminum macbooks, and the panasonic magnesium bodied toughbooks. While the aluminum should be easy and cheap to make, I think the magnesium would be cost prohibitive as well as dangerous to work with.

    Anywho...will have specs for the screws up asap. I sent a few off to the shop in MS to have them tested as I believe they are aluminum. The rockwell tester should let me know pretty quick.... If so then I say poo on RIM for using such a crap screw for their phones.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-14-09 04:12 PM
  3. boaman's Avatar
    I would also be interested in TI screws, bezel and battery cover.

    I am also based in the UK, but very interested in getting these parts.

    Regards

    Chris

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-14-09 04:48 PM
  4. bluegoose's Avatar
    Croe -

    I applaud your enthusiasm but your lack of knowledge needs to be reveled so others are not sucked into something. You originally stated that Ti was not a metal and it is. It is not a significant conductor but it is conductive. That alone does not mean it will interfere with the radio reception.

    You have talked about the properties of Ti but any manufactured components will be made from an alloy of titanium. Which alloy are you planning to use?

    Different alloys have differing properties based on the alloying components. Maybe now conductivity does become an issue. You haven't done all your homework. Others should be cautious. You obviously are not a metallurgist. You should not be misleading people by pretending to be one and stating categorical knowledge when you are not a subject matter expert.

    This is perhaps a case of a little knowledge maybe being dangerous?

    Words from an old fart who has been there and done that, and yes I am a metallurgist. Your plan may work fine. I hope you have the success you so badly want but you have may unknowns that you have not considered. GOOD LUCK
    05-14-09 06:43 PM
  5. Croe's Avatar
    Croe -

    I applaud your enthusiasm but your lack of knowledge needs to be reveled so others are not sucked into something. You originally stated that Ti was not a metal and it is. It is not a significant conductor but it is conductive. That alone does not mean it will interfere with the radio reception.

    You have talked about the properties of Ti but any manufactured components will be made from an alloy of titanium. Which alloy are you planning to use?

    Different alloys have differing properties based on the alloying components. Maybe now conductivity does become an issue. You haven't done all your homework. Others should be cautious. You obviously are not a metallurgist. You should not be misleading people by pretending to be one and stating categorical knowledge when you are not a subject matter expert.

    This is perhaps a case of a little knowledge maybe being dangerous?

    Words from an old fart who has been there and done that, and yes I am a metallurgist. Your plan may work fine. I hope you have the success you so badly want but you have may unknowns that you have not considered. GOOD LUCK
    I appreciate the lesson.

    I do not manufacture Ti so I won't be choosing my perfect mixture. I use 6al-4v for all the framelock or linerlock knives built. The material is in sheets and I have some that should be thin enough to try this out with some warm pressing and some good cad to cut the parts right.

    As far as the screws.....not even going to begin to do that myself.....those are being ordered out by my supplier.

    And yes....I am no metallurgist, but have studied many of the properties of specific metals/alloys used in knifemaking. By non-metal in my first post I was referring to metallic signature. There are many different grades of Titanium alloys as well as pure Ti. There is also Timascus, Black Timascus, and various other combos which have been created and used extensively in the custom knife and gun world. I know enough about them all to have a pretty successful company with fewer warranty's for failed products than most.

    While I do not machine anything myself, I do know a good bit about different types of Ti, cutting speeds, molding/pressing speeds, etc.....but I don't manufacture Ti. If I did I would have a **** of a lot more money than I do now since it is HIGH dollar and has been for a while now. Getting sick of it myself, but can't bring myself to use steel liners in a knife as I have had/seen numerous folding knives fail do to improper hardening or simply cracking.

    I will be trying out the first one with .019" 6al4v sheet. Depending on the workability we find through prototyping I think this thickness will work out just fine. At that thickness it is still pretty cheap to work with, I have a few sheets, and my supplier has plenty more. I will most likely be ordering the Ti rods for the screws from them as well unless the guys I am working with here in Atlanta get me a better price for the finished work.

    I do appreciate the feedback from everyone, especially those giving of information to correct any misinformation I posted on Titanium not being a "metal" per se, which is what I originally intended by my post....non-metallic signature.

    6al4v should have no problems with radio interference as far as I know. Actually I can't really see how any commonly used Ti alloy would have any problems with interference with radio signals.
    05-14-09 11:45 PM
  6. sooperdooper's Avatar
    I am down for the whole set assuming its not some crazy amount of money.
    05-15-09 12:09 AM
  7. msaririan's Avatar
    I'm interested in the set as well, but ill wait to see the final product.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-15-09 02:11 AM
  8. mad_vtak's Avatar
    When you get some pictures of the ones you have had made.

    I'm interested.
    05-15-09 04:50 AM
  9. bluegoose's Avatar
    6AL4V is a common alloy and very useful. You may very well get it to work. It is I think sufficiently malleable to do what you are planning. The cost in my opinion is prohibitive but good luck. Projects like this are a challenge and fun to tackle.

    The screws on the other hand I would use a high strength alloy like 4140 or a tool steel like S-7. Much better for screws than Ti. Even a 400 stainless would be better and much more cost affective. I think if you Charge what it is going to cost to make the parts your offers to buy the over runs are going to disappear though. I can not see you being able to make a bezel out of Ti for under $100.00 cost in quantities under a ten thousand pieces but again good luck. This will be a great project to do. I hope you post pictures as I would like to see your final effort. I will be a challenge to get right.
    05-15-09 07:15 AM
  10. era3z's Avatar
    I am really interested in the bezel and battery cover... since I haven't opened my interior part of Bold, so I haven't found screws problem.... but the problem is I'm not in USA... =(
    05-15-09 07:21 AM
  11. hurricane.gio's Avatar
    Oh, and Ti would be just as if not lighter than the plastic bezel, as well as the screws.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Screws yes, bezel I am not sure.

    Just form thinking about bikes. Ti frames are heavier than plastic frames (Carbon Fiber). same thickness, length and strength will go to plastic.

    But you are right on the properties.

    Also I would love a Ti Bezel and cover!!
    Last edited by hurricane.gio; 05-15-09 at 07:24 AM.
    05-15-09 07:21 AM
  12. sperho's Avatar
    A titanium part would have to be about 5 times thinner than the plastic part it is replacing for it to be as light as the plastic part.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-15-09 07:35 AM
  13. digitalb0y's Avatar
    That and your metal bezel will probably damage a lot easier than plastic =P.
    You're kidding right? Titanium is so hard that hospitals need to have special tools for breaking titanium rings in case someone wearing one breaks a finger and it swells. The standard tools they use for removing other rings will not break titanium. I have a titanium ring and when shined up it looks as good as the day is was bought. I've gone rock climbing while wearing it and there isn't a scratch on it anywhere.

    The stock bezel scratches if you look at it too hard, and depending on what in the titanium alloy, whatever metals are in the thin plating they put on the stock bezel are probably more likely to create interference than titanium. It would add a tiny bit of weight, but not much. My ring is light as a feather.

    Croe, I'd love to replace the stock bezel with Ti, and I'd match with the screws too (might even buy a set before the bezel). Awaiting word on cost.
    Last edited by digitalb0y; 05-15-09 at 08:37 AM.
    05-15-09 08:27 AM
  14. jayred's Avatar
    Ok ok, everyone take a minute to relax. Breathe deeply.

    Croe is obviously passionate about his work and understanding, there is nothing wrong with that. He is not trying to force his opinions or ideas on us either. I appreciate what he is doing here, because honestly having brushed aluminum/titanium parts for a Bold would be absolutely sexy.

    Passion tends to stir an intense emotional response. So people, get your feelings under control, push aside the crap and think about the offer.

    I personally like real, not faux. I can't say I would commit quite yet to purchasing something like this until I see the end product as well as the price. But I am intrigued by the sounds of super bad *** sexy titanium clothing my Bold. Kinda makes me horny just thnking about it...

    On with the show!
    thanx synwars... i agree and as someone who works with Ti making BMX parts cause it's light, stupidly strong and uber scratch resistance compared to majority of other materials. i am bummed with the forum vets here who have been critics before the OP got to finish posting. you forum vets forget how condesending you can be to people who are new to the forum.

    Big ups to Croe for helping out and giving us even more options unselfishly.
    05-15-09 08:51 AM
  15. s0dhi's Avatar
    I'm interested in the Ti parts.

    I love my Ti watch because its light and has a dull oxidized finish - also its a very nice automatic time piece.
    05-15-09 09:04 AM
  16. O_C_Michael's Avatar
    I am definitely interested in a Titanium bezel, if nothing else to make my BOLD more solid. I wonder if BeckyMae or ColorWare would be willing to apply a nice Pearl-White finish to it. Please let me know when you know more about the screws & Battery Cover as well. Maybe Coveroo could do a custom design on a Titanium Battery Cover.
    05-15-09 10:23 AM
  17. hi-tek22's Avatar
    I'd be interested in some screws..Got any photos of the Ti door??
    05-15-09 10:29 AM
  18. digitalb0y's Avatar
    Woah, I didn't read well enough my first time through, when I saw titanium bezel and screws, I subliminally thought of the batter door clasp and SD card door... I didn't stop to realize you're contemplating replaceing the entire battery door with Ti as well! The thing would be damn near indestructible from any impact except a direct one to the screen! I'm very interested to see the final price point, the results of the interference testing (about which I'm a lot more optimistic than some, apparently) and the availability. My wedding ring is black and silver titanium. How sexy would a matching BlackBerry look in that hand?!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-15-09 02:59 PM
  19. ninja please's Avatar
    actually, titanium does have a low metallic signature, low but not completely devoid of it, which can still cause some types of interference... probably not with a phone though. anyone who thinks it's not a metal, well, get your head checked.

    and lol @ titanium screws
    Last edited by ninja please; 05-15-09 at 06:41 PM.
    05-15-09 06:34 PM
  20. synwars's Avatar
    Woah, I didn't read well enough my first time through, when I saw titanium bezel and screws, I subliminally thought of the batter door clasp and SD card door... I didn't stop to realize you're contemplating replaceing the entire battery door with Ti as well! The thing would be damn near indestructible from any impact except a direct one to the screen! I'm very interested to see the final price point, the results of the interference testing (about which I'm a lot more optimistic than some, apparently) and the availability. My wedding ring is black and silver titanium. How sexy would a matching BlackBerry look in that hand?!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    That's what I'm talking about!

    Sexxay!!!

    Bring it on Croe. Don't listen to the guys who want to strengthen their ego's. We are the ones who want to strengthen our Bold's!

    BTW, I can testify to Croe's contribution to the 9000 e-screen discussions and findings presented on this site. That goes a lot farther than I can say about the rest of you haters.

    Peace.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-15-09 07:36 PM
  21. papped's Avatar
    BTW, I can testify to Croe's contribution to the 9000 e-screen discussions and findings presented on this site. That goes a lot farther than I can say about the rest of you haters.
    Not really sure what that has to do with this thread at all, but ok...
    05-15-09 07:37 PM
  22. synwars's Avatar
    Not really sure what that has to do with this thread at all, but ok...
    Papped, don't be a hater.

    As far as being a helpful contributing member of this forum, before you begin handing out flowers and kumba yah's you might try searching for some of my helpful, friendly posts. I actually have a pretty good track record.
    Until then...I will stick with what I know best...escreens, app development and beer.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-15-09 07:41 PM
  23. papped's Avatar
    Oh ok, that explained everything.
    05-15-09 07:42 PM
  24. LSCUP7187's Avatar
    I would purchase several sets of all products you are considering...please pm me

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-15-09 07:53 PM
  25. matsuya's Avatar
    I'd be interested as well. Looking forward to some pics.
    05-15-09 10:11 PM
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