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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    People already have their giant display phones...

    A PKB accessory could be a decent option too (like the tablets), it doesn't have to be a dedicated device.
    Been tried.... one assumes it wasn't viable for Samsung, or any of the accessory makers.

    We will see how successful the SES Mobile guy is with his....
    10-20-20 02:17 PM
  2. the_boon's Avatar
    Been tried...
    Barely has
    10-20-20 02:23 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Deleted. Wrong thread.
    10-20-20 02:31 PM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Barely has
    Samsung did it for several models.

    There have been other products other than TYPO, and there were signs that TYPO wasn't doing all that well before the 2nd lawsuit.

    Did they all give up, or was the market just not there? Maybe BlackBerry was eating into that business? Maybe the experience just wasn't worth buying a $75 accessory that ended up in the way most the time?

    My guess is Samsung has plenty of data to answer all the questions they had....
    10-20-20 02:39 PM
  5. the_boon's Avatar
    Samsung did it for several models.

    There have been other products other than TYPO, and there were signs that TYPO wasn't doing all that well before the 2nd lawsuit.

    Did they all give up, or was the market just not there? Maybe BlackBerry was eating into that business? Maybe the experience just wasn't worth buying a $75 accessory that ended up in the way most the time?

    My guess is Samsung has plenty of data to answer all the questions they had....
    You can tell Samsung's cases were a half baked effort at best. They didn't try nearly as hard as they do with some of their other accessories.

    Or maybe most people that owned S8/S8+ phones just didn't hear about it.
    10-20-20 02:42 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You can tell Samsung's cases were a half baked effort at best. They didn't try nearly as hard as they do with some of their other accessories.

    Or maybe most people that owned S8/S8+ phones just didn't hear about it.
    It always boils down to cost. What's the % of people that buy PKB attachments for Android/iOS tablets for instance?
    10-20-20 02:59 PM
  7. the_boon's Avatar
    It always boils down to cost. What's the % of people that buy PKB attachments for Android/iOS tablets for instance?
    I have no idea, and I don't know what the price range is of the best selling keyboard attachments for those tablets are.

    But if it's say in the $20 - $50 range, then the PKB attachment for the smartphone should stay within it as well, preferably at around $30 or so if possible. But well marketed is even more important. You would want the thing available in every Best Buy and preferably some carrier stores as well.

    And of course it goes without saying that if it's for an Apple product, it's gonna sell no matter what. Especially if first party, though I wouldn't ever expect such a thing from that fruit company.
    10-20-20 03:09 PM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I have no idea, and I don't know what the price range is of the best selling keyboard attachments for those tablets are.

    But if it's say in the $20 - $50 range, then the PKB attachment for the smartphone should stay within it as well, preferably at around $30 or so if possible. But well marketed is even more important. You would want the thing available in every Best Buy and preferably some carrier stores as well.

    And of course it goes without saying that if it's for an Apple product, it's gonna sell no matter what. Especially if first party, though I wouldn't ever expect such a thing from that fruit company.
    My Zagg Heavy Duty PKB was $99 for iPad Mini when I bought in 2014-2015 and $130 for iPad 5th and 6th generation which I passed on as too much for amount of use. I just bought a new inexpensive laptop instead. Purchased in BB as you mentioned and far better price than Apple itself for the Heavy Duty Otterbox like aspect.

    The 7th and 8th generation sell a PKB attachment for $95 which is the same as Apple compatibles at 1/2 the price. The Zagg was in league of it's own.
    10-20-20 03:20 PM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    My Zagg Heavy Duty PKB was $99 for iPad Mini when I bought in 2014-2015 and $130 for iPad 5th and 6th generation which I passed on as too much for amount of use. I just bought a new inexpensive laptop instead. Purchased in BB as you mentioned and far better price than Apple itself for the Heavy Duty Otterbox like aspect.

    The 7th and 8th generation sell a PKB attachment for $95 which is the same as Apple compatibles at 1/2 the price. The Zagg was in league of it's own.
    He's thinking if Logitech can do a K380 for $40.... anyone can. Or if you can find a replacement keypad for a KEYone for $10 on Aliexpress... how much would a battery and Bluetooth cost?

    He's not accounting for many of those being either factory rejects or overproduction items sold in bulk. My guess is the number of iPad users looking to "laptop" their device is much greater than the number of phone users looking to do the same. I'm sure Logitech has a design for a generic non attachable smaller version of the K380 (miniaturization might be more costly), but the bean counters just aren't happy with the prospects.

    But I guarantee SES Mobile isn't working on a $20 keyboard attachment.... I think he realizes he can't ask for Apple Magic keyboard prices. But I bet he is closer to $80 than to $20.
    10-22-20 09:26 AM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    He's thinking if Logitech can do a K380 for $40.... anyone can. Or if you can find a replacement keypad for a KEYone for $10 on Aliexpress... how much would a battery and Bluetooth cost?

    He's not accounting for many of those being either factory rejects or overproduction items sold in bulk. My guess is the number of iPad users looking to "laptop" their device is much greater than the number of phone users looking to do the same. I'm sure Logitech has a design for a generic non attachable smaller version of the K380 (miniaturization might be more costly), but the bean counters just aren't happy with the prospects.

    But I guarantee SES Mobile isn't working on a $20 keyboard attachment.... I think he realizes he can't ask for Apple Magic keyboard prices. But I bet he is closer to $80 than to $20.
    SES did say he wanted Android/iOS functionality and compatibility. While I suspect that means towards higher end, iOS users do spend the money if the product is truly premium.
    10-22-20 09:41 AM
  11. anon(10710536)'s Avatar
    Yet every tablet now has a burgeoning market for... physical keyboards. What's that thing on the iPad Pro?
    And nobody (bar 1 maybe) has been putting VKB's as the main input device on laptops.

    Everybody likes a PKB whether they've realized it or not. They just don't want to give up on screen size, total size or weight and nobody has quite figured out how to do that.
    You laugh, but I guarantee if Apple came out with a PKB (iPhone 12 Key?), it would sell as well as any of their other models.

    BlackBerry phone fail does not equal PKB fail. Has anyone other than BlackBerry had an honest stab at a PKB with a decently spec'd phone? Maybe not since the old, old Xperia days but as you can see ditching the PKB didn't exactly bring roaring success either.

    Let LG have a go, they're making a run at all sorts of whacky phones. How about a Wing with PKB instead of 2nd screen?
    Yeah I always wondered why the iPad never took off to replace the laptop. Here you have glass typing vs a PKB. Wondering If we will ever get to the point in the future when someone's asks...is that a laptop?
    10-22-20 02:33 PM
  12. the_boon's Avatar
    Yeah I always wondered why the iPad never took off to replace the laptop.
    Lol, you wonder "why"? Maybe because it just can't?

    You need a keyboard if you're gonna have a serious productivity machine.

    Also, iOS isn't even close to Windows or Mac OS.
    10-22-20 06:10 PM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Many have already made an iPad their laptop replacement....

    Just as Laptop sale jumped this year due to COVID and work from home, so have iPad shipments. Along with sales of the iPad Pro and it's magic keyboard (or for any iPad).

    As for OS.... personally there are a couple of industry programs that haven't made it to iOS (or Mac OS). But many folks working from home would have no problem utilizing an iPad.... iOS has everything they need - Office Productivity Suites, PDF Tools, most major Accounting System, Remote Desktop... Most customer service type jobs are already utilizing browser based solutions. Most college kids are fine using an iPad with keyboard, rather than a traditional laptop. There are exception depending on the courses, but it's already being done.

    Three of my grown kids don't own a traditional computer - everything they need to do at home, can be done on iOS.

    Just because I can't do without Windows, or that some others here can't do without Windows or Mac OS.... does mean there aren't a LOT of people that are already doing without those.
    10-23-20 08:38 AM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Many have already made an iPad their laptop replacement....

    Just as Laptop sale jumped this year due to COVID and work from home, so have iPad shipments. Along with sales of the iPad Pro and it's magic keyboard (or for any iPad).

    As for OS.... personally there are a couple of industry programs that haven't made it to iOS (or Mac OS). But many folks working from home would have no problem utilizing an iPad.... iOS has everything they need - Office Productivity Suites, PDF Tools, most major Accounting System, Remote Desktop... Most customer service type jobs are already utilizing browser based solutions. Most college kids are fine using an iPad with keyboard, rather than a traditional laptop. There are exception depending on the courses, but it's already being done.

    Three of my grown kids don't own a traditional computer - everything they need to do at home, can be done on iOS.

    Just because I can't do without Windows, or that some others here can't do without Windows or Mac OS.... does mean there aren't a LOT of people that are already doing without those.
    I tried using my iPad Mini with Zagg Security PKB case and while it looked just like a baby laptop, it didn’t have the necessary horsepower for some basic Continuing Education courses at time. Also, within the browser, I tried a couple of client appointments that were accomplished but it made a 30-60 minute appointment twice as long. As part of technology package with high school, the daughters are issued laptop and tablet so I think even administrators see a could or should difference between two.
    10-23-20 09:04 AM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Many have already made an iPad their laptop replacement....

    Just as Laptop sale jumped this year due to COVID and work from home, so have iPad shipments. Along with sales of the iPad Pro and it's magic keyboard (or for any iPad).

    As for OS.... personally there are a couple of industry programs that haven't made it to iOS (or Mac OS). But many folks working from home would have no problem utilizing an iPad.... iOS has everything they need - Office Productivity Suites, PDF Tools, most major Accounting System, Remote Desktop... Most customer service type jobs are already utilizing browser based solutions. Most college kids are fine using an iPad with keyboard, rather than a traditional laptop. There are exception depending on the courses, but it's already being done.

    Three of my grown kids don't own a traditional computer - everything they need to do at home, can be done on iOS.

    Just because I can't do without Windows, or that some others here can't do without Windows or Mac OS.... does mean there aren't a LOT of people that are already doing without those.
    Yes. People who can do their work with Web and mobile apps can do a lot with a tablet, but as soon as you need to work with local software or files of any complexity, you need a combination of CPU, storage and I/O that no tablet or phone can provide.

    One reason I'm still so satisfied with BB10 is that it lets me offload my email from my PC so that I don't have to constantly alt-tab into email apps or browser tabs to monitor the 4-6 email accounts I use on a daily basis. I use my PC for Slack, MS Teams, Wire, Signal, Hangouts, and virtual meetings as needed, but I hardly ever handle email from my PC.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    10-23-20 09:15 AM
  16. EFats's Avatar
    Well here's another one : F(x)tec Pro1 X
    https://store.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro1/

    Obviously somebody else has just decided a keyboard phone can have some sort of economically viable business case in 2020
    We shall see. I've always liked sliders.


    Posted via CB10
    10-28-20 12:27 AM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Well here's another one : F(x)tec Pro1 X
    https://store.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro1/

    Obviously somebody else has just decided a keyboard phone can have some sort of economically viable business case in 2020
    We shall see. I've always liked sliders.


    Posted via CB10
    That phones has been "out" for over a year and half... The new XDA variant is basically the same device, just some upgraded RAM and Storage. It's a good example of the problems with "start up" or crowd funded devices. Some folks waited well over a year after preordering to get their phone.

    Phones plagued with hardware and software issues... spend an hour on the FXTEC COMMUNITY Forums and you see it's a phone for those that simply must have a keyboard and are willing to live with the hardware and software issues... and the waiting.

    In the end, not sure if it is economically viable business or not - or a good way to move money around for someone. It's a shell company for Livermorium Limited (controlling parties Chen, Feng and LI) based in the UK but their balance sheet is in the RED per their last filing. They only list 1 employee... rest must be subcontractors of some sort, and my guess is all back in China.
    10-28-20 08:42 AM
  18. the_boon's Avatar
    That phones has been "out" for over a year and half... The new XDA variant is basically the same device, just some upgraded RAM and Storage. It's a good example of the problems with "start up" or crowd funded devices. Some folks waited well over a year after preordering to get their phone.

    Phones plagued with hardware and software issues... spend an hour on the FXTEC COMMUNITY Forums and you see it's a phone for those that simply must have a keyboard and are willing to live with the hardware and software issues... and the waiting.

    In the end, not sure if it is economically viable business or not - or a good way to move money around for someone. It's a shell company for Livermorium Limited (controlling parties Chen, Feng and LI) based in the UK but their balance sheet is in the RED per their last filing. They only list 1 employee... rest must be subcontractors of some sort, and my guess is all back in China.
    Well yes it would be ideal if someone other than tiny start ups offered some kind of PKB option

    The waiting game continues...
    10-28-20 09:01 AM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Well yes it would be ideal if someone other than tiny start ups offered some kind of PKB option

    The waiting game continues...
    Maybe OM is a NSA funded company. Plenty of resources then.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    10-28-20 09:52 AM
  20. EFats's Avatar
    That's part of the problem. Nobody makes a quality keyboard device...and then people go off and state that nobody wants PKB's anymore.
    The other half of the puzzle is trying to get the carriers to carry the phones. We have no idea if the Key series did well, but I've never seen one in any of the carrier stores.

    If you use the same criteria and logic and apply it to, say, Sony Xperia devices, one could argue VKB phones don't sell and nobody wants them.


    Posted via CB10
    the_boon likes this.
    10-31-20 12:52 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yeah I always wondered why the iPad never took off to replace the laptop. Here you have glass typing vs a PKB. Wondering If we will ever get to the point in the future when someone's asks...is that a laptop?
    The main problem with the iPad replacing the laptop is the OS can't run most desktop apps. It's fine for very simple cloud-based work, but most knowledge workers who use an iPad for work still have a Windows or Mac for tasks that require local computation, peripherals and mainstream software solutions.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    11-02-20 04:22 PM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    That's part of the problem. Nobody makes a quality keyboard device...and then people go off and state that nobody wants PKB's anymore.
    The other half of the puzzle is trying to get the carriers to carry the phones. We have no idea if the Key series did well, but I've never seen one in any of the carrier stores.

    If you use the same criteria and logic and apply it to, say, Sony Xperia devices, one could argue VKB phones don't sell and nobody wants them.


    Posted via CB10
    But plenty of OEM's are being very successful with VKB phones..... NO ONE is being successful with PKB phones.

    If the KEY Series had done well, we'd be seeing more of them. If the Jio Phone 2 had done well, JIO would have done another. If Samsung had sold plenty of their keyboard attachments, they'd have kept making them. If the Titan had sold well enough, Unihertz would have pushed out the other PKB phone they hinted at (have they even updated the Titan?) If PKB's were what enough of the market wanted.... we'd see plenty of options.

    I know PKB lovers look at the situation and want to believe that the effects are the cause, but that's not how it works. What has lead to fewer option along with so-so quality with overly costly sacrifices for PKB fans..... is simply that most users don't value the same things as this tiny niche does. And the "niche" doesn't all agree on what a PKB should be.

    Maybe, just maybe someone like Nokia takes a risk on a retro PKB design, without all the costly security and branding getting in the way. But my guess is half here would not like the form factor (too big, too small), they half that did like it, would be split on the keys being too firm or too soft or too squeaky. And then there would be the.... "it doesn't have all the shortcut keys", or "my space bar wobbles" or "it doesn't have flagship specs" or "$499 is too much to pay" or "it doesn't run BB10"....
    11-03-20 08:40 AM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I am excited to be getting my bold 9900 in a few hours. That's not a typo. For the past almost 2 weeks now I have been on a digital detox. My blackberry key 2 Le is sitting wiped and off in my sons room. I made this decision because honestly I have a cell phone addiction. I think we all secretly do to be honest. When we are with our families or friends are we actually really there or are we staring at screens. I can honestly say that for the most time I was staring at screens constantly checking email, social media, and whatsapp.

    The past two weeks I have been using the Nokia 3310 and I have felt such a sense of freedom from the constant need to check my phone. I tried the freedom app that locks you out of the phone but you can easily by pass this app by reloading your phone in safe mode. So finally I decided to make the leap and disconnect totally. My bold 9900 arrives today and I am so excited for it to get here. Phone calls and texts...thats all I need this phone for.

    Just wondering if anyone can share with me any things I need to know about battery life with the phone. Things I need to shut off etc, apps running in the back ground etc

    Cheers
    From here to Key2 to KEYone BE and now, anon, closed account.. RIP
    11-03-20 10:14 AM
  24. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    From here to Key2 to KEYone BE and now, anon, closed account.. RIP
    Well he did say he was doing a digital detox....

    Was surprising how "negative" he was there at the end towards the Key devices.
    11-03-20 12:01 PM
  25. idssteve's Avatar
    But plenty of OEM's are being very successful with VKB phones..... NO ONE is being successful with PKB phones.

    If the KEY Series had done well, we'd be seeing more of them. If the Jio Phone 2 had done well, JIO would have done another. If Samsung had sold plenty of their keyboard attachments, they'd have kept making them. If the Titan had sold well enough, Unihertz would have pushed out the other PKB phone they hinted at (have they even updated the Titan?) If PKB's were what enough of the market wanted.... we'd see plenty of options.

    I know PKB lovers look at the situation and want to believe that the effects are the cause, but that's not how it works. What has lead to fewer option along with so-so quality with overly costly sacrifices for PKB fans..... is simply that most users don't value the same things as this tiny niche does. And the "niche" doesn't all agree on what a PKB should be.

    Maybe, just maybe someone like Nokia takes a risk on a retro PKB design, without all the costly security and branding getting in the way. But my guess is half here would not like the form factor (too big, too small), they half that did like it, would be split on the keys being too firm or too soft or too squeaky. And then there would be the.... "it doesn't have all the shortcut keys", or "my space bar wobbles" or "it doesn't have flagship specs" or "$499 is too much to pay" or "it doesn't run BB10"....
    Basically "too big, too small" ... "too firm, too soft" ... Lack of shortcuts, etc, etc,... Can be boiled down into disappointment that NO PKB device design since 9900 has proven a worthy successor to 9900... Imo.

    Pretty universal concept that most attempts to improve on "perfection" most frequently result in LESS perfection. Every "reinvention of the wheel" PKB device design since has suffered irredeemable "fix it till it's broken" dysfunction. Imo.

    PKB is simply too complex of concept for treatment as a universally ubiquitous feature. It took BB many years of trial & error experimentation to eventually zero in on our exquisitely nearly "perfect" 9900s. Each attempt to improve on that perfection predictably resulted in less perfection. And less satisfaction for those of us STILL waiting for a true follow-up 9900... That never came.


    How many times has the desire for a simple followup 9900 been expressed on these forums? Instead, we get a Q without toolbelt nor programmable shortcuts (as intro'd). Prior to Q, how many were clamoring to be RID of that "awful" tool belt? Or screaming "get rid of those awful shortcuts!". ???

    Where were all the screams for BIGGER "Bold" that BB thought they were answering with Classic? Did screams for supersized PKB devices TRULY outnumber those of us begging for a worthy 9900 followup??

    Expecting that oversized PKB offerings will somehow find Apple success simply ignores the primary motive under PKB desires in the first place. PKB enthusiasts are seeking PKB typing experience! Experience best exemplified by Bolds. 9900, in particular. If us PKB enthusiasts were willing to sacrifice typing experience in pursuit of screen estate, wouldn't we have already done so by now? ?? This IS a Bold forum...
    mushroom_daddy likes this.
    11-12-20 05:20 AM
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