[Laura Knotek]

The OEM's are trying to convince people to. Glass does not replace physical controls, no matter how hard they want people to believe it.
There was a concept of a slab that didn't even have side buttons, obviously it never came to life, and probably would have flopped hard if it did.

There's a limit to how far tech should be slabbed.

We already have full displays taking up the entire front of the phones, more of less. Peak smartphone display has been attained.

The next logical step, to me, is to bring more functionality back while keeping said full bezel-less displays.

It all depends on what "functionality" means to users. Large screens are in demand. If the devices didn't sell, then the OEMs wouldn't manufacture them.

As much as you prefer physical keyboard phones, you won't be able to convince enough people outside of this forum to consider using them.

[the_boon]

It all depends on what "functionality" means to users. Large screens are in demand.

That demand is already being met with gigantic pieces of glass.

As much as you prefer physical keyboard phones, you won't be able to convince enough people outside of this forum to consider using them.

How do know what number of people is "enough" ?

But I sure won't be able to convince hardcore keyboard haters. Not everyone is as avid about keyboards as you may be.

[DOCTOREVIL8]

But I sure won't be able to convince hardcore keyboard haters. Not everyone is as avid about keyboards as you may be.

This is where I feel a slider is the best case scenario for the new phone. Keyboard for those who want one. And tuck it away for those who don't.

But, the keyboard has to be a joy to use. That's the big challenge for many Crackberry users.

[conite]

This is where I feel a slider is the best case scenario for the new phone. Keyboard for those who want one. And tuck it away for those who don't.

But, the keyboard has to be a joy to use. That's the big challenge for many Crackberry users.

But the problem is that it appeals to neither side. True pkb aficionados hate a slider, as do slab users that have moved on.

The tiny handful of "part-time" keyboarders could fit in an outhouse.

[the_boon]

But the problem is that it appeals to neither side. True pkb aficionados hate a slider, as do slab users that have moved on.

The tiny handful of "part-time" keyboarders could fit in an outhouse.

It would be for the slab users who are curious about going "back" to a PKB but who don't want to deal with a smaller screen in the process.

[conite]

It would be for the slab users who are curious about going "back" to a PKB but who don't want to deal with a smaller screen in the process.

And they could fit in a shoebox.

[the_boon]

And they could fit in a shoebox.

Slab users make up over 99% of the smartphone market. Within that huge number composed of hundreds of millions, it seems like it's gonna be easier to win some back from that giant pool, rather than just appealing to the PKB die-hards for which you show downward trend lines.

[DOCTOREVIL8]

And they could fit in a shoebox.

Most phones can fit in a shoebox.

[conite]

Slab users make up over 99% of the smartphone market. Within that huge number composed of hundreds of millions, it seems like it's gonna be easier to win some back from that giant pool, rather than just appealing to the PKB die-hards for which you show downward trend lines.

They gone.

[the_boon]

They gone.

I'm sure plenty of KEY buyers were coming from slabs too, not just Priv or BB10.

So a slider has an even greater chance of pulling more in, since it'll be a closer experience to what they're used to.

[conite]

I'm sure plenty of KEY buyers were coming from slabs too, not just Priv or BB10.

So a slider has an even greater chance of pulling more in, since it'll be a closer experience to what they're used to.

It's irrelevant anyway, as their goal is not to cater to the consumer market directly. We will get whatever their corporate play sloughs off.

[anon(10512033)]

I think I'm having a classic case of deja vu. I'm sure I recall this conversation from .... every thread ever on CrackBerry

[EFats]

Yet 10s/100s of $millions of market research says there is no connection at all. People are trying to get away from physical buttons.

Yet every tablet now has a burgeoning market for... physical keyboards. What's that thing on the iPad Pro?
And nobody (bar 1 maybe) has been putting VKB's as the main input device on laptops.

Everybody likes a PKB whether they've realized it or not. They just don't want to give up on screen size, total size or weight and nobody has quite figured out how to do that.
You laugh, but I guarantee if Apple came out with a PKB (iPhone 12 Key?), it would sell as well as any of their other models.

BlackBerry phone fail does not equal PKB fail. Has anyone other than BlackBerry had an honest stab at a PKB with a decently spec'd phone? Maybe not since the old, old Xperia days but as you can see ditching the PKB didn't exactly bring roaring success either.

Let LG have a go, they're making a run at all sorts of whacky phones. How about a Wing with PKB instead of 2nd screen?

[conite]

Yet every tablet now has a burgeoning market for... physical keyboards. What's that thing on the iPad Pro?
And nobody (bar 1 maybe) has been putting VKB's as the main input device on laptops.

Everybody likes a PKB whether they've realized it or not. They just don't want to give up on screen size, total size or weight and nobody has quite figured out how to do that.
You laugh, but I guarantee if Apple came out with a PKB (iPhone 12 Key?), it would sell as well as any of their other models.

BlackBerry phone fail does not equal PKB fail. Has anyone other than BlackBerry had an honest stab at a PKB with a decently spec'd phone? Maybe not since the old, old Xperia days but as you can see ditching the PKB didn't exactly bring roaring success either.

Let LG have a go, they're making a run at all sorts of whacky phones. How about a Wing with PKB instead of 2nd screen?

Yet no other company has wanted to try based on their own market research.

[Laura Knotek]

Yet every tablet now has a burgeoning market for... physical keyboards. What's that thing on the iPad Pro?
And nobody (bar 1 maybe) has been putting VKB's as the main input device on laptops.

Everybody likes a PKB whether they've realized it or not. They just don't want to give up on screen size, total size or weight and nobody has quite figured out how to do that.
You laugh, but I guarantee if Apple came out with a PKB (iPhone 12 Key?), it would sell as well as any of their other models.

BlackBerry phone fail does not equal PKB fail. Has anyone other than BlackBerry had an honest stab at a PKB with a decently spec'd phone? Maybe not since the old, old Xperia days but as you can see ditching the PKB didn't exactly bring roaring success either.

Let LG have a go, they're making a run at all sorts of whacky phones. How about a Wing with PKB instead of 2nd screen?

Yet no other company has wanted to try based on their own market research.

Additionally, other than Apple, Samsung and Amazon, most OEMs have exited the tablet market.

[the_boon]

Everybody likes a PKB whether they've realized it or not. They just don't want to give up on screen size, total size or weight and nobody has quite figured out how to do that.
You laugh, but I guarantee if Apple came out with a PKB (iPhone 12 Key?), it would sell as well as any of their other models.

I don't think it would sell as well as the usual slab models, but it sure as hell would sell enough to make some kind of a profit for them. It would NOT result in losses. If it's a slider, it would sell better than a candybar.

And as for everyone liking a PKB, I don't know, there are some serious PKB haters out there who somehow find tapping on flat glass more satisfying than pushing real keys (go figure).
As far as smartphones go, people want their big displays, so a successful PKB is going to have to play around it, and not get in the way of it. A simple spring loaded slider seems like one of the easier ways to accomplish that.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yet every tablet now has a burgeoning market for... physical keyboards. What's that thing on the iPad Pro?
And nobody (bar 1 maybe) has been putting VKB's as the main input device on laptops.

Everybody likes a PKB whether they've realized it or not. They just don't want to give up on screen size, total size or weight and nobody has quite figured out how to do that.
You laugh, but I guarantee if Apple came out with a PKB (iPhone 12 Key?), it would sell as well as any of their other models.

BlackBerry phone fail does not equal PKB fail. Has anyone other than BlackBerry had an honest stab at a PKB with a decently spec'd phone? Maybe not since the old, old Xperia days but as you can see ditching the PKB didn't exactly bring roaring success either.

Let LG have a go, they're making a run at all sorts of whacky phones. How about a Wing with PKB instead of 2nd screen?

I don't think it would sell as well as the usual slab models, but it sure as hell would sell enough to make some kind of a profit for them. It would NOT result in losses. If it's a slider, it would sell better than a candybar.

And as for everyone liking a PKB, I don't know, there are some serious PKB haters out there who somehow find tapping on flat glass more satisfying than pushing real keys (go figure).
As far as smartphones go, people want their big displays, so a successful PKB is going to have to play around it, and not get in the way of it. A simple spring loaded slider seems like one of the easier ways to accomplish that.

Everybody likes a PKB on certain hardware but a phone isn't that hardware.

Let's accept people that use phones with a PKB, myself included, are odd man outliers.

As far as profits, if all OEMs do are swap out VKB for PKB users, without gaining new users, it's costing and lowering profits. More importantly, PKBs are less profitable on a per device basis in the best of times.

OEMs don't care about serving needs and wants on a humanitarian basis. Every single OEM will gladly let some different OEM pursue social agendas.

If there are truly PROFITS to be GAINED, it would already be done. Amazon, Tesla and similar companies like Apple, Google and Microsoft risk huge monies everyday on new ideas.

[idssteve]

Unrealistic to expect Samsung to cannibalize their own slab markets for PKB. That doesn't mean there's no room for niche products. Especially pro oriented niche that might tolerate the greater margins demanded by smaller volumes...?? Especially if entry barriers relax so that small volumes might not suffer traditional economy of scale handicaps. Possibly starting to happen?

If even possible, the surest way to then attract curious consumers might be for them to see smiling faces using PKB devices... . Consumers seeing smiling faces of their own bosses using the thing might, at least, perceive some "ok" about it??

OM's strategy of targeting pro space might just open possibilities for establishing a pro priced niche of smiling faces? Maybe?? Lol.

As far a sliders go, hiding the PKB in shame behind a screen seems totally unBlackBerry, to me. Lol. My single biggest complaint about traditional sliders is loss of readily available PKB ShortCuts and SpeedDials. AND poorest form factor & balance WHILE extended for typing. ??

NOW, if a BLACKBERRY slider parked the PKB PROUDLY, unapologetically, even obnoxiously, in FRONT of the screen, ... with attitude, lol, you'd preserve full time availability for PKB ShortCuts and SpeedDials while affording most comfortably balanced form factor WHILE typing...?? The front mounted pkb could then slide out of the way to reveal a large screen, as desired. ?? A concept that might present uniquely as Proudly BlackBerry...??

Just resting Bold next to K2LE, I can visualize where such a front slider might resemble a Bold, while retracted into typing dimensions. Then might resemble K series while extended? As one possibility???

Something possibly win-win?? Except maybe for the pkb haters who prefer to hide their pkb until no one is watching...?? Lol

Pheeble ponderings from a ROP... (Retired Old Phart). ??? Lol.

[idssteve]

K2LE display is about Bold size... fwiw

[bb10adopter111]

"PKB is old dinosaur tech for grandpas only..."

Yawn 🥱

The average text message is around seven words. People who don't write don't need a PKB.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[bb10adopter111]

K2LE display is about Bold size... fwiw

^^^^ This is why I used the VKB on my KEYone! It put the keyboard in the right place on the damned phone!

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[idssteve]

^^^^ This is why I used the VKB on my KEYone! It put the keyboard in the right place on the damned phone!

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

lol... a front slider seems to offer potential for Bold form typing experience while retracted. yet offer K sized screen for the three times per year guys like me (and you?) might actually want a big display? win, win, widest possible net?

Must include toolbelt for editing, etc.... imo

[idssteve]

Hiding a feature in shame is a poor way to promote it. I recall reports of Priv's displayed in stores with PKB retracted! They obviously looked like everything else!

My comparatively minuscule promotional experience would lead me to PROMOTE the feature! Stick the PKB unashamedly front and center to scream out with ATTITUDE... "Hell yeah this has a PKB! It's a BLACKBERRY ... Gotta problem with that?!" !!! Lol.

If the thing is truly GOOD at what BlackBerry has done BEST, and not again compromised to mediocrity, even non-typists might at least appreciate a typist's dedicated attitude. Imo. Fwiw.

Once reputation established as a pro tool, a consumer division might one day then offer BlueBerry Priv style sliders? With KBs stowed out of sight? For more modestly inclined consumers? ??? Lol.

[idssteve]

Sorry for the silly rants. Been up all night trouble shooting session. Too much coffee. Lol. Too much time between client replies... He's NOT using a BlackBerry... Hehe...

Edit: he JUST now replied: "How do you type so fast?"... I replied 'trade secret...'. Lol. He already knows I'm using a 9 year old BlackBerry... Hehe...

His plant's now back in production... Thanks again to Agent99.00....

[the_boon]

^^^^ This is why I used the VKB on my KEYone! It put the keyboard in the right place on the damned phone!

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

I tried to type on the VKB of the KEY series phones (when I couldn't afford to have the PKB make noise), and man it was a terrible experience as it's placed way too high for comfortable typing, for me.