[the_boon]

Yeah it isn't worry about BlackBerry.... It's worry about selling enough to make a profit.

I find it hard to believe that the LG Wing is going to sell a lot of phones at that price.... 25K, 50K maybe 100K. But it's a high margin phone that stands out and get the message out that LG isn't gone just yet.

I know PKB phones stand out.... but not sure what people really thing when they see them.

Too be honest I wish Onward hadn't stepped up.... I'd rather see an LG, Nokia or Moto do a PKB. Odds are someone would have attempted to offer a phone for the niche within a year of BBMo going away. I suspect tiny startup Onwards only going to muddy the waters more with an overpriced devices that won't appeal to consumers and will be in update limbo once again... and damage the PKB image even more.

Love to see Nokia do clones of their PKB phones from the past.... both as a feature phone offering and as a full Android One smartphone offering.

Why would a QWERTY feature phone have any chance of success than a T9 one

Don't think OM is gonna make the PKB look any worse than it already is lol

[Troy Tiscareno]

This is why I can't comprehend why there aren't more QWERTY feature phones instead of T9

Because the people buying feature phones are those who don't text - they make phone calls, and they want simple phones with big buttons and big displays. They're mostly in the boomer generation, but some non-techie Gen-Xers and some people who use them as burner phones.

People who care about texting buy smartphones, even if they hardly use apps on them.

[the_boon]

Because the people buying feature phones are those who don't text - they make phone calls, and they want simple phones with big buttons and big displays. They're mostly in the boomer generation, but some non-techie Gen-Xers and some people who use them as burner phones.

People who care about texting buy smartphones, even if they hardly use apps on them.

Still doesn't mean there isn't a market for at least one QWERTY feature phone.

The logical manufacturer of choice would be Nokia of course.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Still doesn't mean there isn't a market for at least one QWERTY feature phone.

The logical manufacturer of choice would be Nokia of course.

I agree!

But then I assume Nokia, and other manufactures know a lot more about market demand, cost factors, support factors.... to make their own decisions. We might not understand those decisions, we might not agree with those decisions.... but we ain't the ones making the call.

[the_boon]

I agree!

But then I assume Nokia, and other manufactures know a lot more about market demand, cost factors, support factors.... to make their own decisions. We might not understand those decisions, we might not agree with those decisions.... but we ain't the ones making the call.

The E series QWERTY phones were very successful I believe, so I don't understand why it's such a big deal to revive one of them and try it out in the market.

As a phone manufacturer, how are you gonna gauge that market without at least one trial device?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The E series QWERTY phones were very successful I believe, so I don't understand why it's such a big deal to revive one of them and try it out in the market.

As a phone manufacturer, how are you gonna gauge that market without at least one trial device?

Looking at how other are doing.... yes I know TCL failure rest with many factors.

I'd assume they ask sellers what they think.... if Verizon has a few folks a day asking where are the PKB phones or smaller phones or pink phones, that would get sent up the line.

We all know PKB phones were successful in the past.... but it's the present that matter now.

Why did the Jio Phone 2 fail? OS? Too cheap? Or too few wanted them?

Again I too think it "ought" to be possible....

[the_boon]

Looking at how other are doing.... yes I know TCL failure rest with many factors.

I'd assume they ask sellers what they think.... if Verizon has a few folks a day asking where are the PKB phones or smaller phones or pink phones, that would get sent up the line.

We all know PKB phones were successful in the past.... but it's the present that matter now.

Why did the Jio Phone 2 fail? OS? Too cheap? Or too few wanted them?

Again I too think it "ought" to be possible....

I doubt too many people would heavily insist on a PKB phone with a carrier store salesman. The eyes see, and the heart desires. The thing has to exist first.

If someone in the market for a feature phone is walking through the carrier or retailer aisle and there's a QWERTY one sitting there on display next to T9 phones at a similar price, and the person predicts they'll be doing quite a bit of texting, why would they pick up a T9 instead?

[Chuck Finley69]

I doubt too many people would heavily insist on a PKB phone with a carrier store salesman. The eyes see, and the heart desires. The thing has to exist first.

If someone in the market for a feature phone is walking through the carrier or retailer aisle and there's a QWERTY one sitting there on display next to T9 phones at a similar price, and the person predicts they'll be doing quite a bit of texting, why would they pick up a T9 instead?

Yes and even with the Jio Phone, the PKB seems to have failed....

The eyes see but for many the desire isn’t there for whatever reason.....

[the_boon]

Yes and even with the Jio Phone, the PKB seems to have failed....

The eyes see but for many the desire isn’t there for whatever reason.....

The thing was as ugly as it could possibly be, and was only in the Indian market.

We don't know if it really "failed" either.

[Chuck Finley69]

The thing was as ugly as it could possibly be, and was only in the Indian market.

We don't know if it really "failed" either.

The first Jio Phone T9 was replaced by the Jio Phone 2 PKB in 2018 and is a feature phone. Looking above, we had been discussing feature phones and why not PKB instead of T9 format.

It’s an inexpensive PKB device that’s a feature phone. How much licensing or design money should have been spent?

The region sold is one billion+ human beings and is statistically large enough to allow educated guess and logical conclusion.

Seems to have failed, isn’t the same as knowing other than educated guess to form a likely conclusion.

[EFats]

The E series QWERTY phones were very successful I believe, so I don't understand why it's such a big deal to revive one of them and try it out in the market.

As a phone manufacturer, how are you gonna gauge that market without at least one trial device?

Use 'common knowledge'? Like how everyone knows small phones don't sell anymore.

Oh wait a minute, right on Apple's front page on the iPhone SE (version 2)
"iPhone SE packs our most powerful chip into _our most popular size_..."
What? So you mean people actual wanted their mobile devices to be mobile? Who would've thought?

If Apple made a PKB it would be the Next Best Thing again...

There's only one way to find out and that's to try it. With a serious device, not a cheapy model stripped of everything. But nobody has the guts. It's like back in the old days 'nobody ever got fired for buying IBM'.
You won't get canned for making yet another glass slab no matter how it flops, but try a PKB and it could be career ending.

[the_boon]

Use 'common knowledge'? Like how everyone knows small phones don't sell anymore.

Oh wait a minute, right on Apple's front page on the iPhone SE (version 2)
"iPhone SE packs our most powerful chip into _our most popular size_..."
What? So you mean people actual wanted their mobile devices to be mobile? Who would've thought?

If Apple made a PKB it would be the Next Best Thing again...

There's only one way to find out and that's to try it. With a serious device, not a cheapy model stripped of everything. But nobody has the guts. It's like back in the old days 'nobody ever got fired for buying IBM'.
You won't get canned for making yet another glass slab no matter how it flops, but try a PKB and it could be career ending.

Zero doubt it would at least sell well enough to make a modest profit.

[Chuck Finley69]

Zero doubt it would at least sell well enough to make a modest profit.

What’s the point if you’re cannibalizing your own customer base? That lowers profits immediately...

By what actual math, does it actually increase profits over the current situation?

[the_boon]

What’s the point if you’re cannibalizing your own customer base? That lowers profits immediately...

By what actual math, does it actually increase profits over the current situation?

It increases diversity of the portfolio.

[Chuck Finley69]

It increases diversity of the portfolio.

What does that exactly mean? How does this "increasing diversity of the portfolio" help the OEM specifically?

[the_boon]

What does that exactly mean? How does this "increasing diversity of the portfolio" help the OEM specifically?

Ask Samsung why they decided to start spending a ton of money into foldables if slabs are apparently enough forever.

[Chuck Finley69]

Ask Samsung why they decided to start spending a ton of money into foldables if slabs are apparently enough forever.

Yes, I understand that. Foldable devices are just basically enhanced slabs because they’re still VKB so you’re right about why it’s being done however it doesn’t apply to PKB form the same way. The foldable strategy applies to early adopters for high gross profit margin with high selling price for new technical form. What does that have to do with old tech form that is completely opposite?

[the_boon]

The foldable strategy applies to early adopters for high gross profit margin with high selling price for new technical form. What does that have to do with old tech form that is completely opposite?

"PKB is old dinosaur tech for grandpas only..."

Yawn 🥱

[Chuck Finley69]

"PKB is old dinosaur tech for grandpas only..."

Yawn ������

But that’s unfortunately the business case that OEMs face. It’s simply profit motive that PKB fails to satisfy. The OEMs would do it that quick if the demand was really what you believe. Not become OEMs give a rats arse for PKBs, simply for the dead presidents that everyone gets up in the morning for....

[the_boon]

But that’s unfortunately the business case that OEMs face. It’s simply profit motive that PKB fails to satisfy. The OEMs would do it that quick if the demand was really what you believe. Not become OEMs give a rats arse for PKBs, simply for the dead presidents that everyone gets up in the morning for....

No one asked for foldables or dual screen devices either, and yet they're being made.

No one's gonna protest outside an OEM's headquarters asking for something different. The thing has to be made first in order to generate any interest.
No one outside of BB brand and a couple of Kickstarters has given the PKB (in any shape or form) any serious chance since 2012 which saw the last landscape sliders, which was when the race to the big bezel less screen was just starting to emerge (and when the tech to have thin sleek devices with sliding keyboards was just not there yet).

[conite]

No one asked for foldables or dual screen devices either, and yet they're being made.

Bending glass is a logical next step for slabs, is it not? It's hardly a stretch at all.

And I think people HAVE been asking for it. They want bigger screens all the time, yet also want devices to be manageable and fit in the pocket.

Heck, remember the BlackBerry concept device that made the rounds in late 2012? This idea has been around for a while, but the technology has finally caught up.

[Chuck Finley69]

No one asked for foldables or dual screen devices either, and yet they're being made.

No one's gonna protest outside an OEM's headquarters asking for something different. The thing has to be made first in order to generate any interest.
No one outside of BB brand and a couple of Kickstarters has given the PKB (in any shape or form) any serious chance since 2012 which saw the last landscape sliders, which was when the race to the big bezel less screen was just starting to emerge (and when the tech to have thin sleek devices with sliding keyboards was just not there yet).

For the very reasons I just stated, OEMs are pursuing foldable and dual screen forms. Who’s going to pay, $1,500-$2,000 USD for PKB hardware? If OEMs believe it would sell and since it’s old tech, don’t you think it would happen? Could you imagine the margins?

[the_boon]

Bending glass is a logical next step for slabs, is it not? It's hardly a stretch at all.

And I think people HAVE been asking for it. They want bigger screens all the time, yet also want devices to be manageable and fit in the pocket.

Heck, remember the BlackBerry concept device that made the rounds in late 2012? This idea has been around for a while, but the technology has finally caught up. [IMG=600x532]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201014/a64e6e598103fc507a51149a160f7805.jpg[/url]

So the foldables are trying to be tablets by opening the pocketable smartphone to a tablet sized screen.
And tablets are trying to be laptops by having keyboard attachments readily available.

By that logic, you can connect the dots between smartphone and physical keyboard.

[conite]

By that logic, you can connect the dots between smartphone and physical keyboard.

Yet 10s/100s of $millions of market research says there is no connection at all. People are trying to get away from physical buttons.

[the_boon]

People are trying to get away from physical buttons.

The OEM's are trying to convince people to. Glass does not replace physical controls, no matter how hard they want people to believe it.
There was a concept of a slab that didn't even have side buttons, obviously it never came to life, and probably would have flopped hard if it did.

There's a limit to how far tech should be slabbed.

We already have full displays taking up the entire front of the phones, more of less. Peak smartphone display has been attained.

The next logical step, to me, is to bring more functionality back while keeping said full bezel-less displays.