[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yet no other company has wanted to try based on their own market research.

I think even if Apple and Samsung both did one and they failed, Boon would blame the failure on lack of quality or too costly or keys too close or keys to far apart, not enough marketing, wrong colors... he'd never accept that PKB phone don't appeal to the masses.

But in the end that's the issue with a PKB, too many variable to really please everyone. For many the 9900 was perfection, others thought the Q10 was great.... just too many views among too small of a userbase to please enough to make it viable. Never mind all the different price points, and the fact many here are only Discount BlackBerry Fans. Many upset that the KEY2's price went up instead of down..... They picked up a PRIV or Passport for $199, something never helped BlackBerry.

[idssteve]

We paid $399 at BB store for nib 9900 summer 2014. Three years after intro and eol announcement. Q10 just one year after intro was priced $299 that same 2013 summer & place.

9900 was certainly nearly perfect but it wasn't perfect. Starting with that impressionist camera that rivals Monet's work! Lol.

"All" they had to do for Q was stuff BB10 into an already perfected Bold chassis! Instead, they reinvented th wheel. Once achieved, attempting to "improve" on perfection most likely results in LESS perfection... Lol.

[the_boon]

I think even if Apple and Samsung both did one and they failed, Boon would blame the failure on lack of quality or too costly or keys too close or keys to far apart, not enough marketing, wrong colors... he'd never accept that PKB phone don't appeal to the masses.

But in the end that's the issue with a PKB, too many variable to really please everyone. For many the 9900 was perfection, others thought the Q10 was great.... just too many views among too small of a userbase to please enough to make it viable. Never mind all the different price points, and the fact many here are only Discount BlackBerry Fans. Many upset that the KEY2's price went up instead of down..... They picked up a PRIV or Passport for $199, something never helped BlackBerry.

Apple or Samsung wouldn't fail at it.

[Chuck Finley69]

Apple or Samsung wouldn't fail at it.

From their perspective, it would fail, because it wouldn’t lead to increased profits

[the_boon]

From their perspective, it would fail, because it wouldn’t lead to increased profits

Failure = loss of money

It wouldn't lose money, because it's AppleSung.

[Chuck Finley69]

Failure = loss of money

It wouldn't lose money, because it's AppleSung.

Reduced profits is a form of failure since you still have less money than if you didn’t undertake the endeavor.

[the_boon]

Reduced profits is a form of failure since you still have less money than if you didn’t undertake the endeavor.

Even that, we wouldn't know unless they try it. It really depends on how they implement it and how aggressively they market it.

[conite]

Even that, we wouldn't know unless they try it. It really depends on how they implement it and how aggressively they market it.

I still don't know who you think they would be taking market share away from. They would only cannibalize their own sales at great expense. Apple and Samsung already have 95% of the non-Chinese OEM market.

[Chuck Finley69]

Even that, we wouldn't know unless they try it. It really depends on how they implement it and how aggressively they market it.

Because of their market dominance, each brand OEMs biggest competitor is effectively itself. Simply put, it’s job is to not lose sales it already has in the bag from it’s fans. That’s one reason why you see a carefulness to not become too radical that it alienates it’s current base. What’s point in gaining million PKB users but alienates 5 million or more VKB fans that believe company is no longer the innovative leader and going backwards to old features or ideas.

[joeldf]

The average text message is around seven words. People who don't write don't need a PKB.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

Sometimes I'll tap out fairly long texts to my oldest son. Several paragraphs at times, even.

He responds with things like "Yes", or "Okay".

We're both on a Galaxy S9. Of course, I'm using the BlackBerry VKB on it.

[the_boon]

Because of their market dominance, each brand OEMs biggest competitor is effectively itself. Simply put, it’s job is to not lose sales it already has in the bag from it’s fans. That’s one reason why you see a carefulness to not become too radical that it alienates it’s current base. What’s point in gaining million PKB users but alienates 5 million or more VKB fans that believe company is no longer the innovative leader and going backwards to old features or ideas.

It's not gonna alienate anyone, Samsung makes tons of slabs.

It's likely they run out of ideas with the rate at which they churn them out..seems more like they're cannibalizing their own sales with slabs every couple of months at same or similar price points.

[conite]

It's not gonna alienate anyone, Samsung makes tons of slabs.

It's likely they run out of ideas with the rate at which they churn them out..seems more like they're cannibalizing their own sales with slabs every couple of months at same or similar price points.

It's a lot cheaper to keep the customers fed on various slabs than to develop keyboard devices that won't add to net sales.

[the_boon]

It's a lot cheaper to keep the customers fed on various slabs than to develop keyboard devices that won't add to net sales.

My point was that they wouldn't cannibalize anything by offering one different forms factor and diversify their portfolio instead of newer slabs that don't really bring anything to the table. They probably would sell more on launch week than TCL sold KEYBerrys during the three years.

[conite]

My point was that they wouldn't cannibalize anything by offering one different forms factor and diversify their portfolio instead of newer slabs that don't really bring anything to the table. They probably would sell more on launch week than TCL sold KEYBerrys during the three years.

I still don't see the point of spending the extra money developing something that wouldn't contribute to net sales.

On the other hand, slabs are easy and cost them almost nothing to develop. They need x units/yr anyway. It makes barely any difference to them by making 10 models to cover x instead of 5 models to cover x.

[the_boon]

I still don't see the point of spending the extra money developing something that wouldn't contribute to net sales.

The fact that they're planning on rushing the S21 before its time starts to show how their S20 models failed, almost like they quickly want to turn that page for some reason (lemme guess...abysmal sales compared to S10 series).
It's almost like they're churning them out at insane speeds out of boredom, just because they can.
So they're desperate to keep their flagship line still exciting by throwing new slab ideas at the wall hoping they'll stick this time around.
The S21 renders look like some TCL $250 phone. Clearly this form factor has run its course.

[conite]

Clearly this form factor has run its course.

Global slab sales will still top a billion units. The course continues as far as we can see.

As far as Samsung is concerned, the S20 was launched in Feb. The S21 won't be much different.

[the_boon]

Global slab sales will still top a billion units. The course continues as far as we can see.

You know what I mean. There's nowhere else to take the form factor.

They're probably panicking as to how they'll keep people running towards the same looking and featured slabs over and over again.

Eventually, sales are gonna start to fall.

[conite]

You know what I mean. There's nowhere else to take the form factor.

They're probably panicking as to how they'll keep people running towards the same looking and featured slabs over and over again.

Eventually, sales are gonna start to fall.

Whether slab sales ebb and flow over time adds nothing to the pkb discussion.

[Chuck Finley69]

My point was that they wouldn't cannibalize anything by offering one different forms factor and diversify their portfolio instead of newer slabs that don't really bring anything to the table. They probably would sell more on launch week than TCL sold KEYBerrys during the three years.

You’re grabbing for reasons why you think OEMs should produce something they’ve explored and decided against.

There’s literally teams of employees that have job responsibilities to prove or disprove your theories. When thinking of your PKB idea, employees internally source hardware test devices, evaluate test subjects and percentage uptake by individual test users.

Certain levels of acceptance, leads to next steps and leads to production. Internally, the PKB doesn’t reach the necessary profit generation metrics to advance to production status. If worthwhile, it would be done since that’s how those employees are incentivized.

[bb10adopter111]

We paid $399 at BB store for nib 9900 summer 2014. Three years after intro and eol announcement. Q10 just one year after intro was priced $299 that same 2013 summer & place.

9900 was certainly nearly perfect but it wasn't perfect. Starting with that impressionist camera that rivals Monet's work! Lol.

"All" they had to do for Q was stuff BB10 into an already perfected Bold chassis! Instead, they reinvented th wheel. Once achieved, attempting to "improve" on perfection most likely results in LESS perfection... Lol.

BB10 was really designed for glass IMO, as BlackBerry was hoping for 20%+ market share as a third OS almost immediately. I think they saw the Q10 as a transition device to help PKB folks from legacy move to BB10.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

You know what I mean. There's nowhere else to take the form factor.

They're probably panicking as to how they'll keep people running towards the same looking and featured slabs over and over again.

Eventually, sales are gonna start to fall.

Samsung is working to expand their sales at other price points.... further pushing smaller OEM into the history books.

With some markets like US and India being against Chinese sourced products.... Samsung is dominating the Android sales in those markets now.

Apple too has expanded their product line.... five new phones in one year, unheard of for them. Peopple want options, and they are working to offer what people (majority) are asking for. But they know smartphones are going to be kept longer and sales will decline once those other OEM are gone, and they and Samsung - and the Chinees have staked their claims. Their focuses is offering Services to those owners that are part of their ecosystem, providing them more and capturing more revenue at the same time.

Apple will probably go the FOLD route at some point as well.... as a big display is what people are asking for.

I could see a magsafe filo horizontal case with magic keyboard for an iPhone 12 Max.... $250 accessory. But I don't see them bothering with trying to offer an actual phone to this size market.

[idssteve]

BB10 was really designed for glass IMO, as BlackBerry was hoping for 20%+ market share as a third OS almost immediately. I think they saw the Q10 as a transition device to help PKB folks from legacy move to BB10.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android

Haha... Still wiping up spilled coffee... Lol. A sometimes somewhat "potti-mouthed" coworker just texted me after reading this. I wont quote her (wish I could... The wife is still catching breath between laughter... Lol) but essentially exclaiming that she was way past "training bras" when Q came out. Lol. This coworker is simply the fastest typist on ANYthing that I've ever seen or heard of. Some brains are wired that way. Lol. She didn't need transition... She needed a phreeking toolbelt! Lol.

[conite]

Haha... Still wiping up spilled coffee... Lol. A sometimes somewhat "potti-mouthed" coworker just texted me after reading this. I wont quote her (wish I could... The wife is still catching breath between laughter... Lol) but essentially exclaiming that she was way past "training bras" when Q came out. Lol. This coworker is simply the fastest typist on ANYthing that I've ever seen or heard of. Some brains are wired that way. Lol. She didn't need transition... She needed a phreeking toolbelt! Lol.

And BB10 (and Android for that matter) was not designed with cursor control in mind. It has been slapped on as an after-thought, but it's more annoying than useful.

[the_boon]

a big display is what people are asking for.

People already have their giant display phones...

I could see a magsafe filo horizontal case with magic keyboard for an iPhone 12 Max.... $250 accessory. But I don't see them bothering with trying to offer an actual phone to this size market.

A PKB accessory could be a decent option too (like the tablets), it doesn't have to be a dedicated device.

[bb10adopter111]

And BB10 (and Android for that matter) was not designed with cursor control in mind. It has been slapped on as an after-thought, but it's more annoying than useful.

My single major complaint with BB10. I'm used to it after 7+ years, but that doesn't make it good. I like BB10 more than Android, and Android more than iOS, but the lack of keyboard combinations on VKBs seems fatal to editing shortcuts.

Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android