05-29-09 06:26 AM
74 123
tools
  1. katadare's Avatar
    Hmm, that kinda sucks that its only the material for the ball that is different.
    And that there isn't any new tech inside the new javelin.
    I was kinda looking forward to seeing, physically, what this new tech is,
    and of course putting into the bold.
    There has been a lot of speculation on what 'Atomic' entails, lasers, magnets, etc.

    Either way,
    I am excited to see both the new tech and the black trackball.
    Because the OEM trackball will complete my vision of a 'stealth' bold =p



    BTW, thanks for changing the thread name.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-06-08 12:18 AM
  2. WarER4X's Avatar
    as you can clearly see in that pic the mechanics are the same as the white balls. In other words, it's not the true atomic ball but just a black ball put into the old style mechanical assembly. The atomic ball uses magnetic technology and not the rollers like the original. This was done for longevity.

    The true atomic trackball will not work or even fit into other BB's.
    Now this statement makes me doubt the reliability of your source info because current trackballs already use magnetic fields to detect movement. Anyone who has taken their trackball assembly apart with ferrous tools (steel tweesers or whatever) will immediately notice how the end of each of the four track wheels in the assembly clings to your tools.

    The current track ball works by having four little rollers, one on each side of the assembly. Each roller is identical to the others, having a cylindrical magnet on one end and being knurled on the other end. The knurled ends are moved by the trackball itself (hence the bumpy feel when moving a properly working trackball) which turns the magnets. Inside the cavity of the BlackBerry where the trackball assy sits, you can see a magnetic field detector at the location of each roller magnet. The detectors pick of the movement of the rollers and translate them to inputs for the OS.

    Now, if your "source" is as informed as they claim to be, they would not have offered up this "magnetic technology" as something new, since that's the way BlackBerry trackballs have worked from the beginning.

    The only way to eliminate the rollers and still keep this magnetic detection tech would be for the ball, itself to be magnetic. Unfortunately, the problem with that approach is that a single magnet (hence one polar axis) would not be able to generate motion inputs in two dimensional space. For example, if the polar axis of the ball were oriented vertically and the user rolls the ball left-to-right there is no change in the magnetic field for the sensors to detect.

    I suspect that if the new 8900 trackball improves longevity, it probably does it by changing the interface between the ball and the rollers. The current design gets stuck when the knurles on the rollers get dirt in the grooves. If RIM devised a was to make the rollers smooth and still maintain good traction between the ball and the rollers (material changes, perhaps?) then that may solve the problem, or at least make it easier to clean without having to take it apart.

    -SR-
    12-08-08 12:00 PM
  3. Raven71's Avatar
    You guys are a lot smarter then me but instead of using magnets, isn't there a way to use infrared light to show the position of the ball. Its like how my mouse works for my desktop.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-08-08 12:13 PM
  4. WarER4X's Avatar
    You guys are a lot smarter then me but instead of using magnets, isn't there a way to use infrared light to show the position of the ball. Its like how my mouse works for my desktop.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    A laser would probably work fine except for one thing, if the tech were similar to what a modern laser mouse/trackball (for computers) uses, pushing down on the BB's trackball would also register as a side-to-side or up-down motion to the laser sensor because the side of the ball it's looking at would appear to be moving from the laser's viewpoint. The only way to solve this with current laser mouse tech would be to have the entire laser and pick-up mechanism float with the trackball itself so that, when the ball is pushed like a button, the laser sensor and laser do not move in relationship to the ball.

    I suppose another way would be to put the laser directly under the ball, instead of looking at the side, but then where would the button switch be located? Perhaps it is possible to implement a second laser (something I haven't notice in laser mice and trackballs for computers) which would be able to detect rolling motion vs button-push motion.

    -SR-
    12-08-08 01:26 PM
  5. Raven71's Avatar
    Or they could make it that when you press down it cuts current to the laser so it doesn't react. The other idea is not to have the track ball push down but a key next to it or on the key board.
    I had my Curve push down button break on my last Curve which is why I have a Bold now.
    The track ball happens to be one of the weak links in this system IMHO along with the push down function.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-08-08 01:39 PM
  6. greg24's Avatar
    Oh for pete's sake just let it go people. They sell a black trackball that can be used on the Bold. Who gives a flying flip what it's called?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    i agree and argued this also...
    12-08-08 01:58 PM
  7. Firewater's Avatar
    Or they could make it that when you press down it cuts current to the laser so it doesn't react. The other idea is not to have the track ball push down but a key next to it or on the key board.
    I had my Curve push down button break on my last Curve which is why I have a Bold now.
    The track ball happens to be one of the weak links in this system IMHO along with the push down function.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    How does it recognize when you are pressing the ball down to cut current to the "laser"? That input could simply be used to recognize a track ball push... And if they were the same input how would that solve the problem of the laser misinterpreting a track ball push for a track ball scroll?

    Removing the track ball push function defeats the essence of the trackball in the first place. Why would you want to remove the functionality of the track ball for a laser motion? The tradeoff isn't worth it.
    12-08-08 02:14 PM
  8. anydaynow's Avatar
    When the 8900's trackball is installed on the Bold, does the ring around it still light up ? I ask this because I notice the ring around the 8900 houseing is clear (as opposed to the silver ring around the bold) and lights up when in the 8900.
    12-08-08 02:18 PM
  9. greg24's Avatar
    what silver ring around the bold? have you seen a bold man?
    i hope you arent talking about the tiny silver trim
    12-08-08 02:20 PM
  10. Kronk's Avatar
    When the 8900's trackball is installed on the Bold, does the ring around it still light up ? I ask this because I notice the ring around the 8900 houseing is clear (as opposed to the silver ring around the bold) and lights up when in the 8900.
    If the ring is lit by the same backlighting that illuminates the Bold's trackball, I would assume so.
    12-08-08 02:21 PM
  11. EKK330's Avatar
    what exactly is the "atomic trackball?" All I see is some black ball, i don't get what's so special
    12-08-08 02:22 PM
  12. greg24's Avatar
    what exactly is the "atomic trackball?" All I see is some black ball, i don't get what's so special
    ask carmovies...he knows all the differences
    12-08-08 02:23 PM
  13. Kronk's Avatar
    There's no such thing as an Atomic Trackball. It's pure myth. Like unicorns.
    12-08-08 02:35 PM
  14. anydaynow's Avatar
    what silver ring around the bold? have you seen a bold man?
    i hope you arent talking about the tiny silver trim
    Yea I guess I am talking about that... does it not qualify as a ring and why do you hope I'm not talking about it ? lol...
    12-08-08 04:05 PM
  15. greg24's Avatar
    well when i think about a ring i think about whats on curves, thats all.
    12-08-08 04:06 PM
  16. Raven71's Avatar
    Well I guess the laser thing is out.LoL
    There is no silver ring around the trackball and from what I have read and seen, it isn't a easy job to replace. Now you have to take the phone apart and remove the halves. Being careful not to break some wires attached to the board.
    Am I right or is it there is also a board that has to be removed once you have it apart.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by Raven71; 12-08-08 at 04:35 PM.
    12-08-08 04:22 PM
  17. carsmovies's Avatar
    what exactly is the "atomic trackball?" All I see is some black ball, i don't get what's so special
    What you've seen in pics isn't the atomic trackball and you are right it's just a black ball.
    12-08-08 05:44 PM
  18. Mode's Avatar
    There's no such thing as an Atomic Trackball. It's pure myth. Like unicorns.
    Unicorns are real, dude.
    12-09-08 02:55 PM
  19. Kronk's Avatar
    Unicorns are real, dude.
    My friend the leprechaun told me they aren't, and I'm inclined to believe him over you. Sorry.
    Last edited by Kronk; 12-09-08 at 03:32 PM.
    12-09-08 03:24 PM
  20. afropostale's Avatar
    Now this statement makes me doubt the reliability of your source info because current trackballs already use magnetic fields to detect movement. Anyone who has taken their trackball assembly apart with ferrous tools (steel tweesers or whatever) will immediately notice how the end of each of the four track wheels in the assembly clings to your tools.

    The current track ball works by having four little rollers, one on each side of the assembly. Each roller is identical to the others, having a cylindrical magnet on one end and being knurled on the other end. The knurled ends are moved by the trackball itself (hence the bumpy feel when moving a properly working trackball) which turns the magnets. Inside the cavity of the BlackBerry where the trackball assy sits, you can see a magnetic field detector at the location of each roller magnet. The detectors pick of the movement of the rollers and translate them to inputs for the OS.

    Now, if your "source" is as informed as they claim to be, they would not have offered up this "magnetic technology" as something new, since that's the way BlackBerry trackballs have worked from the beginning.

    The only way to eliminate the rollers and still keep this magnetic detection tech would be for the ball, itself to be magnetic. Unfortunately, the problem with that approach is that a single magnet (hence one polar axis) would not be able to generate motion inputs in two dimensional space. For example, if the polar axis of the ball were oriented vertically and the user rolls the ball left-to-right there is no change in the magnetic field for the sensors to detect.

    I suspect that if the new 8900 trackball improves longevity, it probably does it by changing the interface between the ball and the rollers. The current design gets stuck when the knurles on the rollers get dirt in the grooves. If RIM devised a was to make the rollers smooth and still maintain good traction between the ball and the rollers (material changes, perhaps?) then that may solve the problem, or at least make it easier to clean without having to take it apart.

    -SR-
    I have the real atomic trackball!!!!!

    Through some friends in IT I was able to get my hands on a "used 8900". My friend gave this to me for free because he switched to a newer 8900 and didn't want the older, unlocked version which he said had a broken (and weird looking) trackball. Well I ordered a replacement 8900 ball online and when I took everything apart today I discovered that this model is not only an unlocked canadian version, but a prototype 8900. Nothing amazing about that in itself...BUT the trackball and the housing underneath it was NOTHING like the standard bb trackball...NO ROLLERS...just a smooth metal pit that this strange looking trackball sits in. I take out the trackball and clean what appears to be a peeling and cracked rubber exterior. What do I find underneath? A transparent ball with about 2 dozen silver tiny spikes or paths coming from the core. the metal just reached the outside of the ball and looks kind of like a mine or one of the "shock-balls" they sell at novelty/toystores. The ball is MAGNETIC and without any rollers, there is a single sensor underneath the pit where the ball rests. I would imagine this single sensor tracks movement and determines direction every time one of the magnetic points runs across the sensor. this little square trackball module is actualy attached to the board of the BB through a thin circuit-tape. so it cant be swapped out like the standard BB trackballs

    I haven't been able to test how it works because i am waiting for the battery to come in which should be monday. but it doesn't feel as smooth as it could because the outer smooth later has some off. Only camera I have right now is on my mac so heres a quick shot for now
    05-28-09 10:28 PM
  21. DriftKing's Avatar
    Why don't we all forget about black, white, atomic balls and just switch back to the trackwheel?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-29-09 12:08 AM
  22. dazingla's Avatar
    just throw sum tape on the leds jeez ppl..
    Products involved: 1: t5 screw driver
    2: clear tape
    3: sharpie of choice
    4: scissors to cut the friggin tape

    there ya have it an even cooler looking trackball then the mythical atomic trackball on the bold yaaaaayyy. if you need a review on how to unscrew ur bold google it i know you can do it :d
    05-29-09 03:10 AM
  23. kentusmc#CB's Avatar
    So I bought the 8900 and I love it the led is so bright that it looked a bluish/grey color so I took it apart again tonite and cut a small piece of electrical tape and slapped it on over it and no its black all the time!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-29-09 06:18 AM
  24. ebelville's Avatar
    I installed last week the black trackball from G1/8900 and it works pefrectly and it looks awesom. Also changed all parts to black. The phone looks berry black! jeje
    05-29-09 06:26 AM
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