05-05-11 06:09 PM
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  1. papped's Avatar
    Main reason I think it should have been included is that these devices are primarily sold on 2-year contracts and I'm guessing most people will come to embrace video calling during that time. It might not be widespread today, but once most of your coworkers and friends/family on android or ios have front cameras, you're going to wish this one did. While this device is a good upgrade from any BB today, in two years it will seem like a dinosaur, as the current BB's today feel to me.
    People were saying this years ago though... It's not like the technology to use video calling hasn't been available forever or that 3g even couldn't handle it, or that you couldn't do it over wifi even if you were on edge or even no data plan at all (which used to be more common)...

    It's old tech and it has been around forever. Adoption is still very low... It has always been low. Anecdotal doesn't mean "everyone will be using it within a year or two".
    05-04-11 01:49 PM
  2. EagleLooking78's Avatar
    My wife always grabs my iPhone to use the front facing camera to check her make up and hair. LOL...Other than that I only use it when my daughter calls me from the MacBook at home.
    05-04-11 02:20 PM
  3. kjjb0204's Avatar
    People were saying this years ago though... It's not like the technology to use video calling hasn't been available forever or that 3g even couldn't handle it, or that you couldn't do it over wifi even if you were on edge or even no data plan at all (which used to be more common)...

    It's old tech and it has been around forever. Adoption is still very low... It has always been low. Anecdotal doesn't mean "everyone will be using it within a year or two".
    Talking about mobile video calling, not just video calling. Mobile video calling hasn't been around forever, and in a few years a front cam will be standard on smartphones. Wifi wasn't on a Verizon BB until maybe 3 years ago? 2 years maybe? Do you think BB could get away with making a phone without wifi now? No way, and we'll be saying the same about MOBILE video calling in just a few years.
    05-04-11 03:07 PM
  4. papped's Avatar
    Other platforms had WiFi before that
    05-04-11 03:22 PM
  5. Phill_UK's Avatar
    Talking about mobile video calling, not just video calling. Mobile video calling hasn't been around forever, and in a few years a front cam will be standard on smartphones. Wifi wasn't on a Verizon BB until maybe 3 years ago? 2 years maybe? Do you think BB could get away with making a phone without wifi now? No way, and we'll be saying the same about MOBILE video calling in just a few years.
    Mobile video calling HAS been around for years. We've had it in the UK on nearly all smart and dumb phones since the introduction of 3G back in 2003... and still nobody uses it.

    Maybe it will make a return to popularity with the introduction of LTE, but until then it's just a gimmick

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-04-11 03:28 PM
  6. nRRe's Avatar
    evo4g has one, apparently one of the first in the U.S. and i've used it twice..in the almost year i've had the phone.

    both times just to see how it worked. i was at work, wife/kid at home, kid loved it...but after 2-3 minutes he got bored of it, ha.

    i wish it had one, as the wife will be getting my evo4g once i get a new phone, be fun to video chat with her while at work/school/home with the 2 kids etc. but i doubt we'd ever use it, texting is much easier/efficient. ha.
    05-04-11 05:15 PM
  7. papped's Avatar
    Mobile video calling HAS been around for years. We've had it in the UK on nearly all smart and dumb phones since the introduction of 3G back in 2003... and still nobody uses it.

    Maybe it will make a return to popularity with the introduction of LTE, but until then it's just a gimmick

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yeah a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that the feature phones in the rest of the world are like the feature phones in the US too...

    They do a lot more than the crap ones released here...
    05-04-11 05:20 PM
  8. blackberry-unlocking710's Avatar
    I think that RIM is making a smart thing by not including it in.
    in fact, this blackberry should be a smart device not only by being a computer-like

    same as most people here - i don't really use it.
    and it's a fact, a front camera is not used much. and i'm sure that for a "one time in a month" i can use my notebook for a video chat.
    05-04-11 09:02 PM
  9. EGerhardt's Avatar
    Mobile video calling HAS been around for years. We've had it in the UK on nearly all smart and dumb phones since the introduction of 3G back in 2003... and still nobody uses it.

    Maybe it will make a return to popularity with the introduction of LTE, but until then it's just a gimmick

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I totally agree.

    Thing is that video calling has a couple of things that make is undesirable.

    First, it DESTROYS battery life. Using the network (and to a greater extent than voice traffic even) burns battery, using the screen burns battery. Doing both together for any length of time is unrealistic.

    Second, there is no such thing as 'mobile' video calling, because you can't move while you use it. Sure you can be out and about, but you can't actually move because to get any benefit you have to be constantly looking at the screen, else you aren't looking at the other person and they can't see you properly.

    Finally, there is no practical reason why video calling would ever be more attractive than voice calling on a mobile platform. Think about it. Even on iPhones/Android phones with big screens, any details will be TINY. Yes, nice high res, but still tiny, so you can't really show someone something (a document or something) in detail via video chat. You just can't. You'll have to send them whatever you want them to see anyway.

    In a buisness context, where people are 'on the go' a lot I just can't see why you would bother trying to video call someone when it means they need to put down everything they are doing to take the call.

    Yes, in a consumer context, I can see why people like the idea of video calling to stay in touch. But if you are the kind of person who wants to use video chat you are already doing it from a laptop or whatever anyway. Its a fun addition to catching up with people for sure, showing off your new hair or whatever. Thats because when you have a decent size screen, can sit down, not worrying about data or battery, you can actually 'see' the other person (nearly life size if you have a decent screen). Would you really want your primary communication with your friends/parents/partner to be squinting at a three inch panel ?

    Developers know this, and thats why the tablets are all getting front facing cameras, because they are essentially laptop replacement devices, and plenty of people use their laptops to cam with their friends, so tablets need the functionality else they aren't competing properly. Most tellingly, tablets have decent screen sizes and FAR better battery life, and have the potential to share the video stream to bigger screens too.

    Much as some companies squeel about video calling it is, and always has been (right back to the 80's) a complete waste of time. Giving a presentation by video is useful, because it offers you that personal touch when you are 'selling' and idea to someone, but its purposeless just to talk.
    05-05-11 12:53 AM
  10. Snipperdo17's Avatar
    They knew what they were doing when they didn't include it. There's no way the current OS can support video chat. The client they introduced in the PlayBook is only for QNX. I guarantee the QNX phones next year will have a FFC because QNX can support it. The software for phones currently just isn't good enough.
    05-05-11 08:34 AM
  11. kjjb0204's Avatar
    Other platforms had WiFi before that
    Right, and everyone was crying foul that BB's being released didn't have wifi. Now it's standard. Front cameras will be standard once RIM has hardware and software that can handle it.
    05-05-11 09:44 AM
  12. papped's Avatar
    Right, and everyone was crying foul that BB's being released didn't have wifi. Now it's standard. Front cameras will be standard once RIM has hardware and software that can handle it.
    That makes no sense because the Bold 9900 can handle it both software wise and hardware wise, as could most phones released in the past few years...

    You do not need a 2nd gen snapdragon cpu + even Android to run video chat...
    05-05-11 01:28 PM
  13. kjjb0204's Avatar
    Bottom line is front cameras are going to be a standard. As usual, bb apologists claim no need for it since rim doesn't have it. I'm sure many will say it belongs on an android or iphone "toy" in pure denial that bb is a follower now, not a leader/innovator.
    05-05-11 01:51 PM
  14. papped's Avatar
    Yes I'm being a BB apologist for a BB I don't own nor do I currently own a BB...

    That also doesn't make sense. I own a phone that has a front facing camera that is staring at me right now. It's not commonly used...
    05-05-11 01:53 PM
  15. buellrunner's Avatar
    I understand what your saying - its just that the most expensive and most difficult part of the video chat system is the back end development and implementation. Adding the front cam to the berry is relatively easy for them to do.

    Adding the camera to the bold makes sense to me, because it gets more users on the system. More users having fun on the system = more sales. RIMs future for innovation research and development depends on revenues from sales....(Just like most Profit Based businesses)

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-05-11 02:13 PM
  16. papped's Avatar
    Having something is better than not having it (obvious). The question is does that actually get more people using video chat and does it actually result in phone sales?

    Neither is proven at this point, which is the whole problem..

    People are not buying HTC phones for example simply because of the front facing camera... It might be item #20 on a list of things, but that doesn't mean it's a selling feature.

    If a lot of users aren't actively using the system then the front facing camera doesn't bring in users.
    05-05-11 02:20 PM
  17. Masahiro's Avatar
    I'm sure many will say it belongs on an android or iphone "toy" in pure denial that bb is a follower now, not a leader/innovator.
    Taking a low-popularity feature that has been included on some standard phones for years in Europe or Asia and making it standard on a smartphone is not considered "leadership" or "innovation".

    By the way, if RIM were a "follower", don't you think they would have a front-facing camera? I think you may have your terms mixed up.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by Masahiro; 05-05-11 at 02:37 PM.
    05-05-11 02:33 PM
  18. papped's Avatar
    Taking a low-popularity feature that has been included on some standard phones for years in Europe or Asia and making it standard on a smartphone is not considered "leadership" or "innovation".

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No, you have to remember that every single thing the iPhone or Android does that has been around for years is "innovation" =P.
    05-05-11 02:37 PM
  19. Masahiro's Avatar
    No, you have to remember that every single thing the iPhone or Android does that has been around for years is "innovation" =P.
    Well, I'm convinced.
    05-05-11 03:06 PM
  20. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Having something is better than not having it (obvious). The question is does that actually get more people using video chat and does it actually result in phone sales?

    Neither is proven at this point, which is the whole problem..
    As things stand, if they included a front facing camera it probably wouldn't help sales and it would add costs in the process because beyond the small hardware cost you would also have the development costs for porting their video chat app onto the current blackberry os too, it is not about the power of the hw or os, just that it isn't supported currently.

    The odds are that the qnx phones next year will get a front facing camera even though the feature still won't be important to many people in the same way it hasn't mattered for nearly a decade, but crucially it will only be the minor hw cost to include it since they will reuse the code for the playbook video chat app on those new phones too.
    05-05-11 03:38 PM
  21. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Bottom line is front cameras are going to be a standard. As usual, bb apologists claim no need for it since rim doesn't have it. I'm sure many will say it belongs on an android or iphone "toy" in pure denial that bb is a follower now, not a leader/innovator.
    Bottom line is that they were standard when umts phones first showed up, nobody used them then and they pretty much vanished. This time round a few more might use it, but it is still not that many despite things like skype being fairly well used on computers.

    If you think people on here are being apologists when they respond with a resounding 'meh' at the thought of a ffc, try going to an ios messageboard and the odds are that you won't find drastically more enthusiasm for them on there either.
    05-05-11 03:44 PM
  22. Stein357's Avatar
    I've had the iPhone 4 since launch and haven't used FaceTime once. FFC would be nice but definitely not a deal breaker for me.
    05-05-11 03:45 PM
  23. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I've had the iPhone 4 since launch and haven't used FaceTime once.
    Your usage is probably slightly below average then as I expect most people would tend to try it once before ignoring it.
    05-05-11 04:10 PM
  24. kjjb0204's Avatar
    Bottom line is that they were standard when umts phones first showed up, nobody used them then and they pretty much vanished. This time round a few more might use it, but it is still not that many despite things like skype being fairly well used on computers.

    If you think people on here are being apologists when they respond with a resounding 'meh' at the thought of a ffc, try going to an ios messageboard and the odds are that you won't find drastically more enthusiasm for them on there either.
    I will agree that every platform has it's apologists, it's critics and defenders. All good. We can agree to disagree on the ffc, all I'm saying is in two years you won't see a new smartphone without it. Just my opinion of course.

    OP - I agree they should have included a ffc.
    05-05-11 05:29 PM
  25. Jean-luc_Picard's Avatar
    Bottom line is front cameras are going to be a standard. As usual, bb apologists claim no need for it since rim doesn't have it. I'm sure many will say it belongs on an android or iphone "toy" in pure denial that bb is a follower now, not a leader/innovator.
    bb is following more than they used to. Apple is also following, Android devices are also following, and as soon as anybody gets a good idea everybody else copies it. Just because it WILL be standard doesn't mean it has to be right now. Eventually it will probably be standard to have a screen that changes size so that your phone is also your tablet and your laptop, or (to be more realistic) it might be standard for all smartphones to have at least 1080p displays. This doesn't mean that it is a requirement for any company to do either of these in order to sell units until it actually does become standard. Also, RIM does have it... Ever hear of the PlayBook? I do use the front-facing camera on it, but as a toy (did you know that toddlers love it if you show them a mirror that goes black if you touch a specific spot [namely the camera]/), and wouldn't miss it if it were gone. I have tried video chatting on my computer, and found it a fair amount of hassle, and it was just simpler to call or email. I haven't tried video chatting on my PlayBook (i don't know anybody else who has a PlayBook), but I only ever even wish I could see the person I'm calling when I'm calling family members that I care about and haven't seen in more than a couple months, and for something like that I'd be fine just using my computer when I felt the need to video chat...
    05-05-11 06:09 PM
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