01-14-12 03:47 PM
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  1. Jawbone220's Avatar
    This whole bricking saga is very annoying. Having experienced it first hand I thought I would offer my thoughts.

    Firstly, and as has already been stated, there is a huge difference between a nuked BlackBerry and a bricked one. If any of the tips/guides solved your problem then your device wasn't bricked in the first place. It is extremely annoying to hear people who have had a nuked BlackBerry, (or even self-proclaimed experts who haven't even experienced the problem), say that the problem can be fixed by the user. It 100% can not! No amount of "clicking the button at exactly the right moment", cunningly removing and replacing the battery or standing on one leg whilst facing east will unbrick a truly bricked BlackBerry. The only solution is to get a replacement unit.

    My 9860 bricked in November. After 10 days of trying every tip known to man I had no choice but to ask for a replacement. I am no stranger to BBs, can solve pretty much any other problem blindfolded, and am not guilty of "user error" as has been patronisingly suggested previously.

    A truly bricked BlackBerry will not boot up. It will not allow the battery to charge even via mains. There is no way any PC can recognise the device. It is BRICKED, dead, deceased. It is an ex-BlackBerry.

    Any BlackBerry of any age can achieve the status of Bricked, but several conditions must be met for it to happen. With the latest devices those conditions seem to be:
    1: Uses the JM1 Battery.
    2: Has discharged to a point where the device switches off radio, wifi and BT.

    When those conditions are met some BB's will enter BrickClub, however some will not and may never do so. It's a gamble, possibly based on the components used in manufacture.

    When you have joined Brick-Club you will observe the following:

    1: Your battery is drained, but no amount of charging will alter this.
    (You can buy brand new OEM batteries but the device will see them as being totally discharged yet will not charge them).
    2: You will be in an endless reboot sequence.
    3: Your PC will recognise the device for about one second before it reboots. No clicking" at the right time" will solve this. 3rd party apps will not see the device. Loader will always grind to a halt when it reboots the device. (Stuck at Loading JVM).

    From discussions about older devices exhibiting the same problem, the only solution found to work was to remove the CMOS battery from the devices circuit board. Not an ideal suggestion but by resetting its CMOS the device would then seem to decide that the battery should be allowed to charge.

    When my replacement unit arrived I switched it on with another brand new battery in. Same problem, the phone thought the battery was dead! and went into endless reboot mode. However, on plugging the unit into a PC the phone decided to use USB power and booted perfectly normally and charged the battery! To recap: the previous bricked BB would NOT do this, it would refuse to charge the battery and would boot-loop endlessly.

    The problem seems, to me, to be a combination of JM1 battery plus faulty OS, plus faulty charging circuitry.

    RIM anounced in November that they were aware of the problem and would be issuing a software fix. Unfortunately a software fix is of no use to anyone who's BB is truly bricked.

    For those who say "Must be your own fault. Never happens to me"... Good Luck, I hope you don't wake up to find you're the latest member of Brick-Club!

    ETA:
    (Conjecture)
    Whilst several conditions must be met to cause Bricking, I think the JM1 battery is the first culprit. AFAIK it contains a chip that provides the BB with some basic information(*). Such as "Remember me? I am now discharged to such a level that it would be unsafe to charge me. Please do not try to do so".
    This information then gets stuck in the BBs non-volatile brain and is all it hears regardless of what battery is used from then on.
    A software fix is therefore needed. One which will clear the BBs brain of old battery-talk.

    ETA2:
    (*) The battery to device chat is a 2-way thing. Putting a brand new battery into your bricked BB perhaps causes the BB to tell the new JM1 "I still have your last mail and on reading it I am not allowed to charge you".

    Your JM1 battery has 4 contacts, your BB also has 4 . Two handle the supply of DC Voltage the other 2, I would suggest, are for BB to Battery 'comms', (sounds crazy I know but Li-Ion batteries are a peculiar beast). You can test this if brave enough: supplying an identical DC voltage as the JM1, (hard-wired and permanent rather than battery), to the positive and negative terminals in the BB will make no difference whatsoever. The BB is not merely wanting a DC supply over pins 1 and 4 in order to function it is also wanting 'data" from pins 2 and 3.

    Sanyo, or whoever manufactures the JM1, may have produced a duff batch?
    Have a duff JM1 you will brick, have a good JM1 you won't?
    In both of my specific instances, my blackberry ceased to exist as a blackberry. Endless sequence of rebooting and no amount of third party software or loader attemps would work.

    I do agree that there is most likely a hardware issue of somesort, which will be extremely bad for RIM. Not that recalling batteries will be that expensive. Car manufacturers do this all the time. The detrimental bit will be to RIM's already tainted image.

    Interesting that you noted having read about the removal of the CMOS battery. Have you ever actually tried this? What were the results, if so? If it wouldn't void any warranty that I have with Verizon, I would actually attempt this myself. Being a computer technician, I'm very familiar and comfortable working with circuitry. I'd be interested in trying that.
    01-09-12 02:29 AM
  2. Chrisy's Avatar
    Yea they haven't sent An official fix for the problem. So yes people's phones are still bricking daily.
    This is what I'm seeing as well. RIM needs to make some sort of statement. iPhone had issues too but at least it wasn't kept quiet.

    I am waiting for this issue to be fixed as I have an upgrade available. I'll give it another month or so. If it is not addresses I will be getting an iPhone 4 (not 4s).
    01-09-12 07:05 AM
  3. Betmen's Avatar
    I keep hearing speculation that the bricking as due to faulty batteries.
    Now if that was the problem wouldn't it be easier for RIM to replace
    all the batteries. The battery vendor would pick up most if not all the cost.
    Certainley alot cheaper than replacing phones and furthur tarnishing an already
    tarnshed reputation!
    Insread RIM says nothing and every one of us are clueless.
    01-09-12 07:57 AM
  4. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I keep hearing speculation that the bricking as due to faulty batteries.
    Now if that was the problem wouldn't it be easier for RIM to replace
    all the batteries. The battery vendor would pick up most if not all the cost.
    Certainley alot cheaper than replacing phones and furthur tarnishing an already
    tarnshed reputation!
    Insread RIM says nothing and every one of us are clueless.
    The bricked devices were simply a large bad batch distributed amongst a large number of carriers. The good batches were also evenly distributed. Mine was from a good batch. It doesn't affect RIM's reputation allot. When the device bricks, I bet people didn't think to try it without the battery connected to have the OS reloaded back on it, then insert the battery at the time of JVM reloading. Simply put it, don't drain your LI-ION battery.
    01-09-12 10:14 AM
  5. kellyweng88's Avatar
    ^^^you seem to not know the bricking issue completely then

    you can plug it in without the battery, but the computer will not recognize it, so you cant even load a new OS. The phone just will not turn on regardless or battery in or out
    01-09-12 10:39 AM
  6. Fret Madden's Avatar
    ^^^you seem to not know the bricking issue completely then

    you can plug it in without the battery, but the computer will not recognize it, so you cant even load a new OS. The phone just will not turn on regardless or battery in or out
    He's saying that some people are claiming bricked without checking. And while I'm not saying yours isn't, sometimes getting a device recognized is a PITA. By your definition my 9930 that I'm posting this with is a brick, since I've had troubles getting it recognized twice.
    01-09-12 10:48 AM
  7. sallenthornton's Avatar
    This is what I'm seeing as well. RIM needs to make some sort of statement. iPhone had issues too but at least it wasn't kept quiet.

    I am waiting for this issue to be fixed as I have an upgrade available. I'll give it another month or so. If it is not addresses I will be getting an iPhone 4 (not 4s).

    I also have an upgrade available, but don't have any confidence that the bricking issue has been corrected. Maybe I'm crazy, but I just do not have any faith in RIM right now. Maybe that will change, but for now... it hasn't. And the longer I wait to upgrade, the less interested in the 9900 I become.
    01-09-12 10:48 AM
  8. Fnord's Avatar
    I also have an upgrade available, but don't have any confidence that the bricking issue has been corrected. Maybe I'm crazy, but I just do not have any faith in RIM right now. Maybe that will change, but for now... it hasn't. And the longer I wait to upgrade, the less interested in the 9900 I become.
    Given the amount of Bolds out there against those that have "bricked", you most likely have nothing to worry about as the odds are minuscule.

    If you are buying directly from your carrier, you are covered in the event that something does happen, as they will replace based on warranty.

    IMO it seems a bit silly to let this "bricking" issue keep you from the phone you want.
    Last edited by fnord; 01-09-12 at 11:48 AM.
    01-09-12 11:44 AM
  9. Chrisy's Avatar
    It doesn't seem silly to me. The chance doesn't seem that minuscule. Not only that, just having to be even worried at all about it bricking is enough to make me not upgrade to it right now.

    I don't anyone in real life that has a BlackBerry so all I have to go by is reports on this forum. Sad but true.

    I don't have the time or energy to fix phones anymore. I don't want a hobby phone. I want a reliable device.
    01-09-12 11:48 AM
  10. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I got the 9900 knowing it wouldn't brick. All this hype...
    01-09-12 11:49 AM
  11. Chrisy's Avatar
    Unfortunately, wishing it so doesn't make it happen.
    01-09-12 11:54 AM
  12. Fnord's Avatar
    It doesn't seem silly to me. The chance doesn't seem that minuscule. Not only that, just having to be even worried at all about it bricking is enough to make me not upgrade to it right now.

    I don't anyone in real life that has a BlackBerry so all I have to go by is reports on this forum. Sad but true.

    I don't have the time or energy to fix phones anymore. I don't want a hobby phone. I want a reliable device.
    I get what you are saying, but you have to realize that this forum does not represent real-word, and everything has to be taken with a grain of salt.

    While it IS apparent that there is some type of issue affecting a number of OS 7 devices, the number is extremely small. If it was anywhere close to what we see in these forums it would have been big news (as was the iPhone 4S battery issue).

    Here's a good example to keep things in perspective (something that is easily lost around here):

    This is a snippet of an email that my bell mobility rep sent me today.

    ---------------
    Here is a rundown of our Bold 9900 client warranty issues.

    Units Sold: 13,690
    Units DOA: 2
    Units Returned For Repair: 319

    Warranty Claim Types:

    Broken Screen: 71
    Water Damage: 58
    Electrical Surge: 19
    OS/App Install Errors: 74
    Broken Chassis: 26
    Battery Failure: 11
    Broken Keyboard/Trackpad: 4
    Broken USB Port: 22
    Broken Headphone Port: 17
    Broken Side Button: 6
    Broken USB Charger: 5
    Crushed Device: 6
    -----------------


    All of these with the exception of battery failure, were caused by physical damage done by the end user.

    For my work, we have 278 units deployed. We have had one broken screen that happened during shipping, and one device that the user dropped in the toilet. Otherwise our fleet is 100%.

    These are real numbers. Out of a total of 13,968 devices, we have zero bricked phones.
    Original thread this was posted in: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post6995514
    01-09-12 11:59 AM
  13. Nashstruck's Avatar
    I get what you are saying, but you have to realize that this forum does not represent real-word, and everything has to be taken with a grain of salt.

    While it IS apparent that there is some type of issue affecting a number of OS 7 devices, the number is extremely small. If it was anywhere close to what we see in these forums it would have been big news (as was the iPhone 4S battery issue).

    Here's a good example to keep things in perspective (something that is easily lost around here):



    Original thread this was posted in: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post6995514
    I bet "bricking" fits nicely under "OS/APP install errors"
    01-09-12 12:03 PM
  14. Betmen's Avatar
    The bricked devices were simply a large bad batch distributed amongst a large number of carriers. The good batches were also evenly distributed. Mine was from a good batch. It doesn't affect RIM's reputation allot. When the device bricks, I bet people didn't think to try it without the battery connected to have the OS reloaded back on it, then insert the battery at the time of JVM reloading. Simply put it, don't drain your LI-ION battery.
    Thats theory is hard to swollow because the bricked 99xx's are all over the place. The first 9900 came out, I think, in canada with tons of bricks. Then the 9930 came out in the US in CDMA with tons of bricks. Finally AT&T the last to hit and it has tons of bricks. I think you need to re-think your logic. This is a very frieghtning issue for any customers planning to jump onboard.
    01-09-12 12:06 PM
  15. Fret Madden's Avatar
    Unfortunately, wishing it so doesn't make it happen.
    Yet what about those of us that have a 99xx and have had no issues? I neither tinker nor worry about my 9930, which with Verizon as your carrier one assumes you'd be getting the same by default. I'm not trying to say your fears are groundless, I'm merely wondering if the good devices are getting consideration. On one hand I understand where you're coming from, any downtime caused by (any) device is extremely frustrating; on the other hand I wonder if you're talking yourself out of something you might really enjoy (subjective to device/user match).
    01-09-12 12:24 PM
  16. Fret Madden's Avatar
    Thats theory is hard to swollow because the bricked 99xx's are all over the place. The first 9900 came out, I think, in canada with tons of bricks. Then the 9930 came out in the US in CDMA with tons of bricks. Finally AT&T the last to hit and it has tons of bricks. I think you need to re-think your logic. This is a very frieghtning issue for any customers planning to jump onboard.
    You may need to rethink your numbers, which are curiously absent from this post.
    Fnord likes this.
    01-09-12 12:27 PM
  17. Fnord's Avatar
    I bet "bricking" fits nicely under "OS/APP install errors"
    OS/App install issues would be related to JVM errors (eg: JVM 102, 513, 517...).
    01-09-12 12:31 PM
  18. Fret Madden's Avatar
    OS/App install issues would be related to JVM errors (eg: JVM 102, 513, 517...).
    I see those quite often in conjunction with "my phone is bricked". I've resisted posting in a large number of those threads mostly because telling someone it's user error never really goes over well.
    Fnord and pcgizmo#IM like this.
    01-09-12 12:42 PM
  19. ChilledBB's Avatar
    I don't believe the bricking issue has anything to do with the battery, at least not 100%. The fix has not yet been released, according to VZW tech support, as they stated they are waiting for a fix from RIM to arrive sometime this month.

    The fact that VZW, possibly others (?), will send you a new phone without a battery is an indication that it is not the battery. The phones I've replaced, using the same battery, have not bricked again after telling users not to allow the battery to get into the red.

    Here is a thread on the VZW forums that Verizon users may want to keep up with as well.

    Blackberry Bold 9930 Died and Cannot be Restored -... - BlackBerry Support Community Forums
    01-09-12 01:10 PM
  20. mchruss03's Avatar
    Well I was very excited when I got my 9930 from Verizon store on the day of launch! Sadly a couple months later I was one of the unlucky ones and ended up with a bricked Bold. I was very sad but decided after researching I would warranty it and get myself a replacement.

    Now with great sadness less then 2 months after getting my new replacement 9930 this phone has sadly bricked again! I think I might just be done with this Bold 9930 until something new comes out.

    I have not installed any new apps recently, never been dropped, exposed to water...I have treated this phone soo well that I have no idea why this has happened AGAIN!

    Very upsetting
    -Russell
    Last edited by mchruss03; 01-09-12 at 05:01 PM.
    01-09-12 03:34 PM
  21. sallenthornton's Avatar
    Well I was very excited when I got my 9930 from Verizon store on the day of launch! Sadly a couple months later I was one of the unlucky ones and ended up with a bricked Bold. I was very sad but decided after researching I would warranty it and get myself a replacement.

    Now with great sadness less then 2 months after getting my new replacement 9930 this phone has sadly bricked again! I think I might just be done with this Bold 9930 until something new comes out.

    I have not installed any new apps recently, never been dropped, exposed to water...I have treated this phone soo well that I have no idea what this has happened AGAIN!

    Very upsetting
    -Russell

    This is exactly why I am hesitant to purchase this phone. It's not a question of warranty replacement, or reloading the OS anymore. It's a question of trust. I do not trust this phone to stay working. And saying that makes me sad. I would feel much better if RIM acknowledged the issue AND stated what the issue is and how they are going to fix it.
    01-09-12 04:06 PM
  22. Chrisy's Avatar
    Ditto above. I still want the 9930. I'm just waiting.
    01-09-12 09:34 PM
  23. olblueyez's Avatar
    This is exactly why I am hesitant to purchase this phone. It's not a question of warranty replacement, or reloading the OS anymore. It's a question of trust. I do not trust this phone to stay working. And saying that makes me sad. I would feel much better if RIM acknowledged the issue AND stated what the issue is and how they are going to fix it.
    Units Sold: 13,690
    Units DOA: 2
    Units Returned For Repair: 319

    Warranty Claim Types:

    Broken Screen: 71
    Water Damage: 58
    Electrical Surge: 19
    OS/App Install Errors: 74
    Broken Chassis: 26
    Battery Failure: 11
    Broken Keyboard/Trackpad: 4
    Broken USB Port: 22
    Broken Headphone Port: 17
    Broken Side Button: 6
    Broken USB Charger: 5
    Crushed Device: 6

    You ever meet someone who couldn't resist tinkering with stuff they should not tinker with? How about "Honest People" who would be willing to go into a store and say "I dropped my Phone in the toilet so can I pay full price for the replacement"?

    The first answer is "YES"!!!
    The second answer is "NO"!!!

    So much crap about phones that just stop working. Funny how NOT ONE story, on this ENTIRE FORUM, about a bricked phone, ever started with "I was upgrading my OS" or "I was wiping my phone" or "I unplugged my phone in the middle of an install"

    If you personally do not have the ability to disearn crap from the truth than go ahead and convince yourself these phones will scruw-up "Just Because You Bought One". And if that is the case then buy an Android or Apple and find another forum.

    The Chairman
    Last edited by olblueyez; 01-10-12 at 09:27 PM.
    01-10-12 09:23 PM
  24. Rootbrian's Avatar
    So well said.

    Units Sold: 13,690
    Units DOA: 2
    Units Returned For Repair: 319

    Warranty Claim Types:

    Broken Screen: 71
    Water Damage: 58
    Electrical Surge: 19
    OS/App Install Errors: 74
    Broken Chassis: 26
    Battery Failure: 11
    Broken Keyboard/Trackpad: 4
    Broken USB Port: 22
    Broken Headphone Port: 17
    Broken Side Button: 6
    Broken USB Charger: 5
    Crushed Device: 6

    You ever meet someone who couldn't resist tinkering with stuff they should not tinker with? How about "Honest People" who would be willing to go into a store and say "I dropped my Phone in the toilet so can I pay full price for the replacement"?

    The first answer is "YES"!!!
    The second answer is "NO"!!!

    So much crap about phones that just stop working. Funny how NOT ONE story, on this ENTIRE FORUM, about a bricked phone, ever started with "I was upgrading my OS" or "I was wiping my phone" or "I unplugged my phone in the middle of an install"

    If you personally do not have the ability to disearn crap from the truth than go ahead and convince yourself these phones will scruw-up "Just Because You Bought One". And if that is the case then buy an Android or Apple and find another forum.

    The Chairman
    01-10-12 09:29 PM
  25. DWPGQ's Avatar
    Had a bricked 9900 today with the latest available os. Followed Crackberry Kevin's instructions on how to un-brick it and it worked fine. I installed the latest leaked 7.1 os and all is working fine so far.

    it actually wasnt to difficult to do.....through apploader.
    01-10-12 09:33 PM
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