[HotJava]

The 9900/30 is a beautiful device that I can type on it all day long. I love my 9930. Most reasonable folks who try a bold 99xx would agree that it is a better typing experience than a full touch screen. However, that's just NOT gonna cut it. That is not nearly enough of what it takes to win back the hearts and minds of x-BBers or to add new folks to the mix. You see folks, the perception is that phones with visible physical keyboards are Old School. RIM's smartphones were hip but now the perception is that the full touch screen is the modern successor of the old physical keyboards. It really doesn't matter that typing on physical keyboards are better - smartphones are capable of so much more and the general public wants modern as well as everything else.

If RIM were to throw a slick QNX OS onto the current bold 99xx tomorrow, they would sell a few more devices but the physical keyboard and the small screen would still be a deterent to being a true rival of the iPhone or the many android full touch screen phones.

Imagine the current bold 99xx as a full touch screen device with QNX and android player. RIM would be able to compete immediately. However RIM needs to do more than compete, they need to innovate. The 9850/60 etc are not viable candidates to compete with the iphone, galaxy S II etc. It is a mystery to me that RIM was able to produced the Bold 99xx and couldn't also deliver a BOLD full-touch with the identical beautiful design. I believe it would have been a game changer. Folks, stare at your current bold 99xx devices, and imagine it as a full touch screen. Maybe not the device for you, but I assume you that it is what most consumers want.

Producing the torch 9850/60 devices is like sitting on the fence. Get in the game or go home and stop wasting time and money. No offense to any of the 9850/60 fans, just saying that such phones cannot garner mass appeal anymore.

I recommend that RIM doesn't produce another device unless it is a real game changer for them. Be honest, given the state of RIM, how many of the new OS7 devices do you truly believe should have been produced?

[ridesno159]

The problem is... That you gave zero reason as to why the 9850/9860 didn't meet your expectations.

Is it not pretty enough for you or something?

Pull your head out from between your legs and look at the big picture. RIM doesn't need your recommendations...

[Kontakt7]

RIM's hardware needs more juice and the OS needs more developers. Then it will be able compete alongside Apple and the other relevant entities. The devices are underpowered and the software and applications are underdeveloped.

The physical keyboard is a big plus in my view. Teenagers and social butterflies that send only poorly typed and formatted SMS messages may enjoy a touchscreen as a sole interface, however there are many who use the phone for more advanced correspondence who value the keyboard.

Faster, more accurate typing.

[Jaguarr40]

I was going to throw my hat in the ring on this one until I saw the answer to the OP so I believe I will stay out of this thread and let others fight this one out. Good luck guys.

[o4liberty]

If RIM put the processor to work better and faster in the new bold it would sell like hot cakes. The difference I see is that rim isn't using the processors ability to its fullest. My old droid incredible has a smaller and slower processor but runs so much faster. Maybe an 0S update will fix this!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[HotJava]

If RIM put the processor to work better and faster in the new bold it would sell like hot cakes. The difference I see is that rim isn't using the processors ability to its fullest. My old droid incredible has a smaller and slower processor but runs so much faster. Maybe an 0S update will fix this!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I really don't believe that a slightly faster processor would make a material difference in the sales game of this device.

[SC457]

Torch 9810 is best of both worlds, which is what I have. Still want a 9900 as soon as ATT releases. I still think the 9900 is the best form factor but might change my mind after using the 9810 for some time and getting use to it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[HotJava]

RIM's hardware needs more juice and the OS needs more developers. Then it will be able compete alongside Apple and the other relevant entities. The devices are underpowered and the software and applications are underdeveloped.

The physical keyboard is a big plus in my view. Teenagers and social butterflies that send only poorly typed and formatted SMS messages may enjoy a touchscreen as a sole interface, however there are many who use the phone for more advanced correspondence who value the keyboard.

Faster, more accurate typing.

I too love the physical keyboard. It works really well for me as a productivity tool. However I do believe that the smartphone has evolve to have mass appeal way beyond a productivity tool. I have a really hard time seeing RIM reclaiming a lion share of the space without some sort of innovation. RIM doesn't need to be #1 to make money for its shareholders but they need to innovate in order to stay relevant.

[sportline]

The problem is... That you gave zero reason as to why the 9850/9860 didn't meet your expectations.

Is it not pretty enough for you or something?

Pull your head out from between your legs and look at the big picture. RIM doesn't need your recommendations...

9860 won't stand a chance fighting galaxy s2 and iphone 4/5.
imagine if you have 9860 with galaxy s2 body, running os7 ? wouldn't you think it will be a success??? it will!! 9860 is nowhere as nice looking as nexus one, with same 3.7" screen.
so 9860 hardware is equal to previous storms...nothing groundbreaking, just another heartbreaking storm#3.

[sportline]

Torch 9810 is best of both worlds, which is what I have. Still want a 9900 as soon as ATT releases. I still think the 9900 is the best form factor but might change my mind after using the 9810 for some time and getting use to it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

i have torch 1 9800 from launch...the trouble is that its becoming too thick and too heavy after changing over to 9900.
rim should have made a brand new 9810 with bigger screen and thinner/lighter phone. 9810 will survive in US due to its low price. won't sale everywhere else since 9800 costs only 450$ or less while 9810 retails for over 650$.

[ridesno159]

9860 won't stand a chance fighting galaxy s2 and iphone 4/5.
imagine if you have 9860 with galaxy s2 body, running os7 ? wouldn't you think it will be a success??? it will!! 9860 is nowhere as nice looking as nexus one, with same 3.7" screen.
so 9860 hardware is equal to previous storms...nothing groundbreaking, just another heartbreaking storm#3.

So if the 9860 looked cooler it would be a success? Looks is all personal preference...

And how is the 9860 hardware equal to the Storm's? Better screen, twice the processor, a trackpad, etc.

Sorry, but your argument is as bad as the OP's.

[BergerKing]

9860 won't stand a chance fighting galaxy s2 and iphone 4/5.
imagine if you have 9860 with galaxy s2 body, running os7 ? wouldn't you think it will be a success??? it will!! 9860 is nowhere as nice looking as nexus one, with same 3.7" screen.
so 9860 hardware is equal to previous storms...nothing groundbreaking, just another heartbreaking storm#3.

One man's turd is another's fertilizer.

9860's hardware is double the Storm's, RAM is what, 3x? Thou speakest from thy nether regions. And the 9850/60 don't have SurePress they are full touchscreen. The only place they lack is in the Apps area, really. Aesthetics are only one factor, and not everyone has the same taste.

[grover5]

The current BB models are on par with the other offerings. Pick your poison and enjoy. Enough with the pissing contests designed to diminish the BB experience on a BB fan site.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Frosty_Power]

I need a phone for productivity and communication and IMO the Blackberry is the best at it. If that is considered "old school", than I'm all for it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[ignites]

slightly more powerful processor

slightly even lower battery life.

enough said.

[BergerKing]

I need a phone for productivity and communication and IMO the Blackberry is the best at it. If that is considered "old school", than I'm all for it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Exactly. No compromise in communicating. And classic design comes around in cycles. I'm glad not all relationships work like smartphones, I can't afford to replace my smartwife like I can my phone, even if I did like the newer models!

[calebdexter]

Why are you stressing about having a QNX superphone at this stage? if you really want a superphone, go to a manufacturing plant and build your own phone and program your own os that meets your "requirements". Otherwise, just enjoy your new device, you bought one right?.

RIM has their reasons for building such devices which I think is a good strategy for them, they don't have to compete with iOS and Android markets because Blackberry is different from them, blackberry offers service, not just good devices. push to email service, real time updating in social apps, chats and etc. blackberry is a messaging machine like no other, android and iOS can't even compete with that. os7 is not comparable with android and iOS because they have different purposes, os7 or bb os in fact have improved through time, with faster reboot times every version upgrades, combined with 1.2ghz processor and 768mb ram, hardware wise, it is a good upgrade from os6 devices.

there's a reason why the 9900/9930 is the flagship device for RIM, because it combines new school and old school, fused together to make one epic device, new hardware and os combined with enhanced old school bold design, with stainless bezel, best keyboard (even better than the 9000 keyboard), not to mention it sports a capacitive touchscreen. so RIM has been thinking about their target market on what they prefer or what they will prefer.

Torch 9810 is somewhat a refresh from the 9800 in terms of housing, hardware and os, but essentially its the same dimensions.

Torch 9860 is a full touchscreen device which I would want to own if I didn't bought my 9900. this unit is one of the top-of-line touchscreen phone you can buy in the market today.

Being a blackberry owner is not about competing with android and iOS, it's all about meeting your needs and making your life easier by the minute, its about experience like no other in terms of messaging and application integration. it is about identity.

Proud to be a berry addict.

[sportline]

So if the 9860 looked cooler it would be a success? Looks is all personal preference...

And how is the 9860 hardware equal to the Storm's? Better screen, twice the processor, a trackpad, etc.

Sorry, but your argument is as bad as the OP's.

its evolution not revolution. it's easier to picture 9860 as successor of storm rather than a groundbreaking product like 9900 which moves away from 9700 cheapness/ feel.
the 9810 got better screen, bigger processor but it's just another 9800, same phone. won't sell unless heavily discounted (like in US). other countries won't see any benefit since its mostly sold retail, no data plan. remember rim's growing market is mostly outside of america now.

thus 9900 is left as the only ground breaking BB 7 product. if it fails to sell, rim is doomed. the torches and curves won't sell much and they are cheaper/entry level product with lower margin.

[ridesno159]

its evolution not revolution. it's easier to picture 9860 as successor of storm rather than a groundbreaking product like 9900 which moves away from 9700 cheapness/ feel.
the 9810 got better screen, bigger processor but it's just another 9800, same phone. won't sell unless heavily discounted (like in US). other countries won't see any benefit since its mostly sold retail, no data plan. remember rim's growing market is mostly outside of america now.

thus 9900 is left as the only ground breaking BB 7 product. if it fails to sell, rim is doomed. the torches and curves won't sell much and they are cheaper/entry level product with lower margin.

So by this argument then it means that almost every single Android phone released in the past 2 years is just part of evolution, not revolution. I mean, they all basically look the exact same, but just with better screens, bigger processors, more megapixel cameras, but they're all just like the ones before them. No revolution there...

Also, the 9860 isn't much like the Storms at all, other than they are full touchscreen phones, and a BlackBerry OS.

[LiteBulb]

first of all, there is no point comparing. i mean, if a device doesnt meet your requirement, then get something that does.

you bought a blackberry: aww man, i need a bigger fluid retina screen and games.
you bought an iphone: aww man, i need a keypad like the 9900.

gg.

[SC457]

i have torch 1 9800 from launch...the trouble is that its becoming too thick and too heavy after changing over to 9900.
rim should have made a brand new 9810 with bigger screen and thinner/lighter phone. 9810 will survive in US due to its low price. won't sale everywhere else since 9800 costs only 450$ or less while 9810 retails for over 650$.

i agree with that, the main reason i got the 9810 was price and my 9700 kept web page crashing. definitely would have gone with the 9900 if ATT had already released it. still might get an unlocked Rogers if they don't release it soon. 9000 was my first BlackBerry and i really miss that keyboard!

[sportline]

So by this argument then it means that almost every single Android phone released in the past 2 years is just part of evolution, not revolution. I mean, they all basically look the exact same, but just with better screens, bigger processors, more megapixel cameras, but they're all just like the ones before them. No revolution there...

Also, the 9860 isn't much like the Storms at all, other than they are full touchscreen phones, and a BlackBerry OS.

androids are almost exclusively touchscreen (apart from few candybars/sliders) so they will surely look similar. you can see the change from galaxy s to galaxy s2..thinner, faster, better camera and so on. its significant though nothing much you can do with slab-design. but they evolve and they sell well.
rim can offer 9860 as an evolutionary design if storms are good devices..the problem is they are terrible - though the hardware may be solid. moreover without a keyboard, 9860 will compete with touchscreen giants (android and ios) which does best for touchscreen.
android can still sell the same form factor - you can see HTC nexus one, EVO, sensation - they are pretty similar but HTC evolves to a world class handset company from a grey manufacturer. why? because they all look the same? no. because people interested and see value on it. the market proves it. just like iphone with fairly small screen and one product (against hundreds of androids). and when mango phones are released, the touchscreen competition gets tougher.

so 9860 face a way tougher war in touchscreen category. it must excel, or die. rim candybar phones survives on the keyboard first, bbm later.

if android and ios produce good candybar phones with gtalk/imessage, decent battery life and better environment, would you think anyone would stick with their 9900?

[mhw100]

Probably full touch screen is the 'future' but while it lasts before RIM goes down or is bought out I'm sticking with the best of class physical keyboard that exists.

[sportline]

Probably full touch screen is the 'future' but while it lasts before RIM goes down or is bought out I'm sticking with the best of class physical keyboard that exists.

i got a galaxy s2..nice phone, good for reading/news, but touchscreen won't get anywhere ( for communication) near physical keyboard for sure. thats why i buy 9900. but i did miss my android + 4.3" screen which you can read. 9900 screen is just minuscule..have to squint to read.

[HotJava]

The current BB models are on par with the other offerings. Pick your poison and enjoy. Enough with the pissing contests designed to diminish the BB experience on a BB fan site.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

No pissing contest here at all. It is because I'm a real fan that I am concerned. I can love the BB experience all I want but it is the market that is going to have the final say. Right now, the market is saying yes to iOS and android. I want to keep my BB so that's why I get frustrated with RIM. I'd like to see innovation from RIM coupled with flawless execution to market.