[papped]

I am in the same boat here. I believe I know what he is trying to say. Here is an example. A car has a 10 gallon gas tank and gets 15 miles per gallon. so he can only go 150 miles . The newer version only has a 7 gallon gas tank but gets 40 miles per gallon.

Does this sound right?

In a boiled down sense, yes.

Gas ratio is not 1:1 because the factors of the car are dissimilar. You cannot assume the cars are the same because.... they're not. The exact same principle applies to battery life where the mah is smaller but the battery is not the same tech and the OS+software+hardware does not consume it identically.

[Sharma15]

Personally, this is a wonderful upgrade from os5 devices! I don't care for app memory as long as I never see a clock face again! That's why I'm buying this bad boy. Who needs 300-400 mb app space when I have an insane browser and fast touch screen? Can't wait to have this in my hands.

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[htc_maple]

Personally, this is a wonderful upgrade from os5 devices! I don't care for app memory as long as I never see a clock face again! That's why I'm buying this bad boy. Who needs 300-400 mb app space when I have an insane browser and fast touch screen? Can't wait to have this in my hands.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

completely agree, that's all i was trying to say with my posts

[southlander]

+1, I agree 100%.

I actually was watching some of Kevin's youtube videos, and in the last BB event, one of the reps said apps could use the internal memory for 'partial app storage', so very large apps (like games, gps, ect) could use the 'media memory' for partial storage...? Like how some apps cache to the SD card? I'm no software tech, so I don't totally understand it.

I would take that as meaning if the game is written to make use of the SD card it can probably store *game-related-data* on the SD card. So the game app still installs in regular memory but things like images, texture maps, audio files, and/or movie files the game needs, those could write to the SD card. If the app is written properly.

That's my guess.

[BeckerSK]

After all the comments I searched around to find out the size of the download for BB7. Based on a 7.0.0.296 version it should be about 236MB. I am not sure exactly what that includes but let's assume the basics. However, remember it comes with a lot more preinstalled software and some larger installs. This would include BB Podcast, BB Twitter, Facebook?, BB Guard, BB Travel, Full Set Premium Docs to Go, BBM 6.0 Plus all the extra crap from Rogers that most people do not use. Also when it started up someone must have already turned it on since it did not go through normal set up where it would eliminate languages you do not need etc. So if you do a proper set up and eliminate the programs you do not use. I expect you will come back to 325MB free.

My expectation is that the OS will take up 250MB, 250MB of additional software and add ons. Leaving about 200MB in reserve. Which is close to what Kevin was showing. If you cut the 250K of software and adds in half then you come back to 325MB. That is more than double what I had with my 9700 running 5.0

[vrs626]

A flagship device in 2011 with 188MB of app memory and a fixed focus camera....awesome. No wonder RIM is in the predicament they are in.

[BoldtotheMax]

It is a little frustrating that they still only have so little amount of app memory. I mean I could get over a 100mb's on my 9700 on os6. That phone is over 2 years old now.

I also don't understand people saying it will be plenty of space. I was under the impression that even though QNX is coming that os7 was still going to be supported as a lower spec brand. So should still have app developers making apps and what not.

Imo honestly these phones should at least come with over 400mb's.

I really wanted to try one of these, but thinking of holding off until QNX.

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[tedzone]

I bet after I get rid of the CRAP they load, i'll be at 250. Then I'll load the stuff I really want/need and I'll be at 230-- more than enough.
Plus, let's not forget this is a BB, not an Android. The BB goes one way and the others go another way. They're not the same animal and can't be compared by the numbers.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[BeckerSK]

* BlackBerry� Maps 6.1
* Facebook� for BlackBerry� smartphones 2.0
* Social Feeds 2.0
* Twitter� for BlackBerry� smartphones 2.0
* Windows Live™ Messenger for BlackBerry� smartphones, Yahoo!� Messenger for BlackBerry� smartphones and Google Talk™ for BlackBerry� smartphones 2.5
* Music Storefront (Amazon MP3 for BlackBerry smartphones 1.0)
* BlackBerry� Messenger 6.0
* BlackBerry App World™ storefront 2.1
* BlackBerry� Podcasts for BlackBerry smartphones 1.5
* BlackBerry� Protect 1.1
* Documents To Go� Premium 3.0

This alone adds 50MB to memory. So if we add 250MB for OS Plus 70MB for reserved memory operation. In addition, there is 80MB of blackberry core applications. I am note sure if that is included in the OS or not. Let's assume it is not. Then there is full language support that if not edited would add 15MB. So those two eat up another 100MB of memory. that would leave 300 MB of free memory but Kevin was showing about 200MB free. So there is 100 MB of unexplained memory usage. My expectation is that after I configured it to my liking and eliminated unwanted software and applications I would have about 300 to 350 MB of free memory. Hopefully Kevin will provide an update on this.

[jjetson]

I think a lot of you are a little misguided on what RAM is and how an OS uses it. Firstly before crapping the bed and getting yourself all upset you should look up what RAM is. The first thing you'll notice is that Applications aren't stored in RAM the way a lot of you think. RAM only lives while the device lives (Power is on). So to even consider that applications are stored in RAM is wrong. You would have to re-download them everytime you reboot your phone or the battery died etc. Applications are brought into RAM when they are running. And even then the whole application does not need to reside in RAM. This is accomplished by memory management and paging. If a section of the app is not in RAM when it needs to be and new section of the app is loaded into RAM so it can run. RAM is there for what is currently going on. Close an App the RAM is occupied is freed.

So if you've used the word RAM in your post, you've probably used it wrong and I suggest you research it a bit. Honestly I don't think anyone used it right.

[jjetson]

Secondly, for those of you worried about not having enough storage to hold apps, I just looked at the spec sheet for the 9900 and it contains 8GB of internal storage. This is where your apps are stored, not in RAM. So go download 20 300MB games and you'll still be OK.

[howarmat]

Secondly, for those of you worried about not having enough storage to hold apps, I just looked at the spec sheet for the 9900 and it contains 8GB of internal storage. This is where your apps are stored, not in RAM. So go download 20 300MB games and you'll still be OK.

this is false. in kevins video it clearly stated 188.xx application memory

[DukeL]

Very sad indeed. RIM is right now in the game of catch up. They have 1.2ghz processor. Everyone else is coming out with 1.2ghz dual core processor. They have 188mb app storage, everyone else has 16gb of app storage. They have fixed focus 5mp cam, and everyone else is coming out with 8mp auto-focus cam. I am really trying hard to overlook all the compromises there are on this device compared with other current offerings because I want a new phone!!!

[Sharma15]

Ok guys, seriously please think this through. bb apps are fairly small generally being less than 1mb. You have 188mb from the box and when u shrink this putty down u will EASILY shrink down another 100+mb (removing fonts, help files, startup videos, ringtones, im's u dont use and soo much more). just wait for a version of hybrid tools and shrink it down. yea, sure apple and android phones have more storage, but look at the size of their apps and compare them to bb apps. they are far bigger. These phones have TONS of space for blackberry apps, not gigantic iphone. android apps. if you want games, buy an iphone or android but if you want quality apps and a quality device, bb is the way to go. personally, having a dedicated gpu is a bigger feature than having 250mb more space that i will never use in my life. as long as i never see another clock face i will die happily.

[DukeL]

Yes I am very exited that RIM has added hardware acceleration to their software. So far ios and WP7 are the only 2 platforms that offered this. Taking full advantage of the gpu for ui navigation is essential in creating a modern experience. Liquid graphics FTW!!!

[jjetson]

this is false. in kevins video it clearly stated 188.xx application memory

Then this is one of the following:

a) A section of internal memory designated to Applications only
b) A seperate memory module that RIM does not provide specs for.

If that screen is not talking about RAM then one of the above has to be true. Because RAM does not store applications. 100% never would that be the case. It may be that RIM doesn't allow more than Xmb app storage that I don't know and no specs are shown on it from what I can find. But that memory is either a or b then.

[mechanic_joe]

Then this is one of the following:

a) A section of internal memory designated to Applications only
b) A seperate memory module that RIM does not provide specs for.

If that screen is not talking about RAM then one of the above has to be true. Because RAM does not store applications. 100% never would that be the case. It may be that RIM doesn't allow more than Xmb app storage that I don't know and no specs are shown on it from what I can find. But that memory is either a or b then.

Or perhaps RIM's definition of 'RAM' isn't the true, PC and laptop definition. Perhaps some people on here are correct, and 256mb are for the GPU, perhaps 188mb of application memory is coming out of the 'RAM'.

My PC stores the OS on the hard-drive, my smartphone does not, this is the only certainty I have in the current definition of 'RAM' in a smartphone.

[howarmat]

its not RAM, its application space. They are 2 different things. But most people call it RAM mistakenly.

[jjetson]

Or perhaps RIM's definition of 'RAM' isn't the true, PC and laptop definition. Perhaps some people on here are correct, and 256mb are for the GPU, perhaps 188mb of application memory is coming out of the 'RAM'.

My PC stores the OS on the hard-drive, my smartphone does not, this is the only certainty I have in the current definition of 'RAM' in a smartphone.

RIMs definition of RAM is the same as the other 99.999999% of the computer industries definition of RAM. Consider that hard-drive Smartphones Internal Storage. Just look up what RAM is and how it works and you'll understand why it's impossible apps are stored on there.

[mechanic_joe]

RIMs definition of RAM is the same as the other 99.999999% of the computer industries definition of RAM. Consider that hard-drive Smartphones Internal Storage. Just look up what RAM is and how it works and you'll understand why it's impossible apps are stored on there.

*previous comment removed*

[jjetson]

you completely missed my point.

I didn't miss the point. I'm re-iterating that Application Memory does not come out of RAM.

I don't know exactly what that "Application Memory" section is. But heres the options.

If it means: Available RAM for use by applications then it has nothing to do with storing applications, just running them.
If it means: Available Memory to store applications then it is either part of the Internal Storage or a seperate memory unit. In which case it has nothing whatsoever to do with RAM.

The problem here is that people are very mixed up about the different parts of memory and are making poor assumptions because of it.

Finally, since it doesn't say RAM, I'm betting it is case 2 and has absolutlely nothing to do with RAM.

[dosto]

I was a little disappointed by the 188 MB left, but as long as I can download my core apps (no games) and have enough room so device doesn't bog down, I'll be happy. It sounds like once I delete all the junk, and load only what I need, I'll still have around 200 MB left. Very excited!

[2001bmw330xi]

Maybe all of this has something to do with the AT&T delay...

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[howarmat]

Maybe all of this has something to do with the AT&T delay...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

why would that be?

[Blacklatino]

I'm sorry about me ranting, I'm just super hyper uber excited about the new phones, I want my own so much and I'm terribly excited. I just found the lack of memory a bit disappointing...haha (that won't stop me)

Nothing wrong with being honest and I know you're not the "only" one thinking the same thing about the memory. I'm still debating between this device or the Torch 2.