02-17-11 01:23 AM
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  1. jeffreii's Avatar
    I'm the type that wants ONE remote for my TV/DVD/Cable Box. Not 385.

    Why do I need a remote control to power on my TV, then use the other to power on the cable box, then use the other to control my DVD player, and then the other one to adjust the volume?

    When I can just have ONE remote that can control everything?

    In the end, they all do the same thing.


    Why add TWO Steering wheels for cars?

    A steering wheel controls your car.

    It can turn it right, it can turn it left, it can keep it straight on course.

    Why do I need TWO to keep it going straight?

    Well?

    Why have a TrackPad, and a TouchScreen?

    They BOTH will navigate the screen, they BOTH will select options for you-

    What improvement would that bring?

    In the end, its the same.

    There is nothing the screen could accomplish that the trackpad/trackball could not.

    The only PLUS I could see in having TWO forms of navigation, is if RIM decides to produce a BlackBerry with another SUBPAR touchscreen.

    ~~~~

    Of course having 2 trackpads/trackballs is ridiculous.

    I agree-

    But in essence having a touchscreen AND a trackball is the same.

    They perform the same functions.

    The "remote" metaphor is wrong because this is not like having multiple remotes. The negatives of multiple remotes is in no way applicable to having touchscreen+trackpad+keyboard. Having the touchscreen on the Bold does not have any negative other than perhaps consuming slightly more power or something.

    More accurate would be to point out that the Bold is like a remote that has only a channel-up/down button to change channels. It's great in most situations but what if you want to jump from channel 100 to channel 400. You need ANOTHER INPUT METHOD. What do we have?? We have a keypad with numbers that lets us select the channel immediately rather than pressing channel up 300 times. There's your metaphor for this discussion.

    Two steering wheels? No. This is not a 2nd trackpad/trackball. This is not a second touchscreen or second keyboard. It's totally different. Unfortunately I can't think of a correct "car" metaphor for you but I think my example of the boat with the steering wheel and the bow-thruster is 100% perfect for this issue. You can successfully manuever a boat without a bow-thruster and never need one. However, once you have the bow-thruster and use it for little manuevers like docking your boat or close-quarters navigation, you never want to be without it because it offers you a better/easier experience.
    09-04-09 03:44 PM
  2. xxxxpradaxxxx's Avatar
    The "remote" metaphor is wrong because this is not like having multiple remotes. The negatives of multiple remotes is in no way applicable to having touchscreen+trackpad+keyboard. Having the touchscreen on the Bold does not have any negative other than perhaps consuming slightly more power or something.

    More accurate would be to point out that the Bold is like a remote that has only a channel-up/down button to change channels. It's great in most situations but what if you want to jump from channel 100 to channel 400. You need ANOTHER INPUT METHOD. What do we have?? We have a keypad with numbers that lets us select the channel immediately rather than pressing channel up 300 times. There's your metaphor for this discussion.

    Two steering wheels? No. This is not a 2nd trackpad/trackball. This is not a second touchscreen or second keyboard. It's totally different. Unfortunately I can't think of a correct "car" metaphor for you but I think my example of the boat with the steering wheel and the bow-thruster is 100% perfect for this issue. You can successfully manuever a boat without a bow-thruster and never need one. However, once you have the bow-thruster and use it for little manuevers like docking your boat or close-quarters navigation, you never want to be without it because it offers you a better/easier experience.
    Your looking at these ideas to close mindedly.

    Look at the general concepts.

    Both Steering wheels and remotes control objects.

    Just as TouchScreens and TrackPads control Devices.
    Last edited by xxxxpradaxxxx; 09-04-09 at 03:49 PM.
    09-04-09 03:47 PM
  3. xxxxpradaxxxx's Avatar
    You can successfully manuever a boat without a bow-thruster and never need one. However, once you have the bow-thruster and use it for little manuevers like docking your boat or close-quarters navigation, you never want to be without it because it offers you a better/easier experience.
    Going with your comparison-

    Just what the heck would you need a "bow-thruster" on a BlackBerry when you have a steering wheel?

    Your not splitting atoms with your blackberry-

    Your selecting icons, typing emails, and playing brickbreaker.

    Wait a second- Hold up-

    Now I want a joystick + touchscreen + trackpad on the Bold 2!

    For those 5 mins a day that I get to play BrickBreaker while in the WaterCloset...
    09-04-09 04:01 PM
  4. rootbeersoup's Avatar
    I can't quite fathom how someone would want their device to do LESS... The "385 remotes" and "2 steering wheel" metaphors are way off in this scenario... Those would apply to something like a bluetooth keyboard for your BB, when it already has a qwerty keyboard on the device

    Besides possibly eyeball tracking, trackpad + touchscreen is the ultimate form of navigation in a mobile device IMO... Touchscreen allows for more precise and quicker navigation in some circumstances (such as web browsing), while the trackpad provides one-handed use (very important IMO)
    09-04-09 05:54 PM
  5. bozo089's Avatar
    ok well first off.........the dakota is suposed to have a VGA camera on the front for video calling. No one mentioned it so i thought i would.

    Also, to this prada guy......im not sure i would have used those metaphors, but i do understand what you mean. I do want to mention, however, that the OS for this phone is going to be different from what we have previously seen. If your metaphors were to apply then we would have to consider a touchscreen/keyboard bb on the older OS. With this new OS, you really have no idea what RIM have come up with and how it will function....so you really can't say they should pick one or the other. I think RIM understands the challenges that you mentioned....hence a new OS!!?!

    Personally, while using my bold.........there have been many cases where i wished i had a touchscreen also.....web browsing, scrolling down, google maps, etc.
    Last edited by bozo089; 09-04-09 at 07:17 PM.
    09-04-09 07:12 PM
  6. OviFan's Avatar
    so does this dakota have an estimated release date? are we talking 2 months, 6 months, 1 year? this is a phone i'm extremely interested in but I want the Onyx.. if it comes out soon then I'll consider getting it instead.
    09-04-09 10:17 PM
  7. Blacklatino's Avatar
    Doubt if it will be out before the Onyx.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-04-09 10:36 PM
  8. rootbeersoup's Avatar
    Sounds like something wayyyy down the line imo
    09-04-09 11:09 PM
  9. shankeith's Avatar
    so does this dakota have an estimated release date? are we talking 2 months, 6 months, 1 year? this is a phone i'm extremely interested in but I want the Onyx.. if it comes out soon then I'll consider getting it instead.
    im pretty sure it'll be awhile from now, this will be the biggest release since the bold i think, im just gonna skip the onyx, because im not likeing the small new ones, and ive always had the flagship blackberrys from 8800 to the bold and soon this dakota model, knowing RIM tho, they might feel the pressure to release soon (after some picture leaks ofcourse, lol)
    09-04-09 11:24 PM
  10. bozo089's Avatar
    so does this dakota have an estimated release date? are we talking 2 months, 6 months, 1 year? this is a phone i'm extremely interested in but I want the Onyx.. if it comes out soon then I'll consider getting it instead.
    to answer your question....if i had to GUESS i would say 6 months to a year! Again, this is a complete guess based on the amount of information that has been leaked thus far. We don't even have a photo of it yet therefore its safe to assume that its going to be awhile. I don't think , however, that it should stop you from buying an onyx but remember the bold came out about a year before the onyx and no significant improvements have been made so if your looking for something next-gen it might not be the right phone for you.
    09-05-09 12:12 AM
  11. JamWar's Avatar
    The Bold 9000 is the BLACKBERRY that started it all. 1 year later and its still the fastest.
    True enough, the next gen version has High expectations on my list.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-05-09 04:05 AM
  12. Joel S.'s Avatar
    LOL This is a joke right?

    Why even have a touchscreen if your not going to use it.



    TWO Seperate forms of navigation is excessive.

    Android phones have it-

    It's stupid.

    Just make a touchscreen GOOD enough, that won't rely on TRAINING WHEELS.

    And no, my metaphors aren't off.

    Your just trying to dance around the jist of my points to prove your own.
    I would like to say that there are a number of laptops with 2 different methods of input... like my thinkpad, it has the eraser thing, and a touchpad. Why couldn't a phone do the same?
    09-05-09 07:24 PM
  13. medium_robin's Avatar
    Because, for the fifth time: a touchscreen has weaknesses. A trackpad has weaknesses. Combine them together and they corroborate to create a stronger device. Keep the keyboard because it's the best method of text input. What's the result? A better device.

    You have this fear of your BB being "cluttered" by a touchscreen and it's totally ridiculous. Imagine using your BB - take my Bold for example - I NEVER touch the screen because that would be dumb - it doesn't do anything when I touch it. Now let's say it magically has become a touchscreen. I can still use it EXACTLY the same way I always used it and never touch the screen. Nothing changes except when I am suddenly presented with a situation where it would actually be faster to press the screen to select something rather than scroll over the with trackpad, I have that OPTION. And that creates value.

    I'm not asking you to accept a device that has 2 trackpads or two seperate touchscreens like your metaphors about adding a 2nd doorknob or 2nd steering wheel. It's about making a device that can do more and has fewer weaknesses.

    It's amazing that I'm being analytical and explaining all of my thoughts and you continue to ignore anything of substance and only offer failed metaphors and unexplained fears of clutter...and this desire for everything to be perfect and simple the way it is.

    Think of a computer mouse. It used to be just two buttons. Maybe one actually. Now they have a scrollwheel and maybe some side buttons. You can still ignore those things and use the 2 buttons and be a happy old fart who's scared of the other two methods of input, or you can find value in being able to scroll or having other features at your fingertips that you once did not have.
    I couldn't agree more. I'm all in favor of having both touchscreen and trackpad. I love my bold. I think the iphone is great. But the ui is indeed compromised on both. Ever try editing text (changing a letter in the middle of a word, copy/paste, etc). It sucks. I don't like the press/hold ultra sensitivity of moving the cursor to the middle of a word. There are situations for both. Both can do the job, but sometimes one is better than the other.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-05-09 08:09 PM
  14. ALpHa.Q.RoUgH's Avatar
    This is what needs to be done for a successful touchscreen/trackpad. The screen needs to be as big as the STORM. However I do not want a sliding keyboard or a flip phone (a la ENVY) therefore, it would have to be a big phone. For one a Palm treo like device the screen real estate IMO is not big enough for me to enjoy let's say a movie or a you tube video. So with that said how would they possibly do a combo of both with out compromising the screen or compromising the keyboard?

    And to the prada guy look just hope they have a special option for you where you can disable the touch input of the phone, that way you'll never even remember that the phone is ideally a touchscreen.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-05-09 09:20 PM
  15. jeffreii's Avatar
    This is what needs to be done for a successful touchscreen/trackpad. The screen needs to be as big as the STORM. However I do not want a sliding keyboard or a flip phone (a la ENVY) therefore, it would have to be a big phone. For one a Palm treo like device the screen real estate IMO is not big enough for me to enjoy let's say a movie or a you tube video. So with that said how would they possibly do a combo of both with out compromising the screen or compromising the keyboard?

    And to the prada guy look just hope they have a special option for you where you can disable the touch input of the phone, that way you'll never even remember that the phone is ideally a touchscreen.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I don't think what you want is realistic - you cannot make the phone so big that it has an iphone sized screen and a Bold keyboard. I think the compromise is made by keeping BB Bold form factor unchanged and just getting the same screen to become a touchscreen.

    As Blackberry users I think most here would agree they'd rather have the compromise lean towards the BB side, not the iphone side.
    09-05-09 10:00 PM
  16. shankeith's Avatar
    I don't think what you want is realistic - you cannot make the phone so big that it has an iphone sized screen and a Bold keyboard. I think the compromise is made by keeping BB Bold form factor unchanged and just getting the same screen to become a touchscreen.

    As Blackberry users I think most here would agree they'd rather have the compromise lean towards the BB side, not the iphone side.
    Agreed, all the flagship berrys are more geared towards corporate users not media users.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-06-09 12:38 AM
  17. ALpHa.Q.RoUgH's Avatar
    I see what y0ur saying but what's the point of a touchscreen if the screen is small? I'll be using more of my fingernails than my actual fingers

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-06-09 12:47 AM
  18. bozo089's Avatar
    i think they could make the screen alittle bigger....not storm size though!
    09-06-09 06:24 AM
  19. tumer's Avatar
    You know this thread had to do with the software guys
    09-06-09 07:32 AM
  20. jeffreii's Avatar
    You know this thread had to do with the software guys
    Nope. I think you are incorrect.
    09-06-09 12:44 PM
  21. ALpHa.Q.RoUgH's Avatar
    Well the only reason I say storm/iphone size because its easier on the fingers for you to navigate. IMO anything smaller than that would need a stylus like the TREO line of phones from palm to be able to use with great response and precision. So unless BB is planning on giving us stylus, I just don't see as of right now from my imagination, how a BOLD sized hybrid touch/qwerty would be practical. Agree or Disagree?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by ALpHa.Q.RoUgH; 09-06-09 at 02:15 PM.
    09-06-09 02:12 PM
  22. tumer's Avatar
    No I am not it was also about the software read the first few posts
    09-06-09 03:52 PM
  23. jeffreii's Avatar
    Well the only reason I say storm/iphone size because its easier on the fingers for you to navigate. IMO anything smaller than that would need a stylus like the TREO line of phones from palm to be able to use with great response and precision. So unless BB is planning on giving us stylus, I just don't see as of right now from my imagination, how a BOLD sized hybrid touch/qwerty would be practical. Agree or Disagree?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It's just not possible without a slider though.

    Actually I think BB navigation is just fine now with the trackpad, albeit with some weaknesses - the touchscreen would probably not be the #1 form of navigation as most BB users prefer the trackpad/trackball anyways. It would be an addition - aiding in certain areas where necessary and convenient. You can't say you need a stylus to choose standard BB icons on the today screen, for example; but you would be free to use the trackpad if you preferred it.

    No I am not it was also about the software read the first few posts
    The thread is about the BB Dakota...hardware and software would be both included under such a broad topic and the OP mentions both hardware and software as well.
    09-06-09 05:53 PM
  24. tumer's Avatar
    That's fine but I fined it weird that thr isn't more questions about software come on drag icons with your finger HP has that imagine that os on a BB that would be SWEET!!!!!!!!
    09-06-09 06:21 PM
  25. phonegeek#AC's Avatar
    While I am not one of the testers for it there is a new HP smartphone that is coming soon to field trial at AT&T. I know nothing else other than that but now that I see there are possibilities that they may be working with RIM on an OS I may have to see if I can get my hands on it....


    PG
    09-06-09 07:14 PM
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