07-25-11 05:06 PM
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  1. TMElectric's Avatar
    I know that sounds funny sort of but imagine if you made a product that would "turn their comapany around". A product that people have been waiting so long for. AND some other company is delaying it's release.

    By delaying the release, it has caused RIM's stock to go down, loss in market shares, and just generally bad press. I want this as bad as the next guy but I do feel sorry for RIM this time. Sure, they deserve some bad press for taking so long to develope new phones. I don't think they deserve our resentment for taking so long to release it now.

    If RIM would have announced a release date of August/September back at the beginning of the year, think of how many phones they would have sold until then. I know people that have been waiting for their upgrade because we have all felt it was just weeks away. Those people would have bought a phone from RIM and traded later if they knew it would have taken so long.

    What about the people that got so pissed because of the way they perceived RIM's failure for not announcing a release date and switched to IPhone or Android. All the time causing Rim to drop market shares and stock prices.

    If I was one of those conspiracy theory type people, I would think Iphone paid Verizon and ATT off to delay the 99XX because they are benefitting from all of this. I am just saying
    07-24-11 06:49 PM
  2. stranger99's Avatar
    Well there's 30 seconds I'll never get back.
    07-24-11 07:00 PM
  3. Shake's Avatar
    I know that sounds funny sort of but imagine if you made a product that would "turn their comapany around". A product that people have been waiting so long for. AND some other company is delaying it's release.

    By delaying the release, it has caused RIM's stock to go down, loss in market shares, and just generally bad press. I want this as bad as the next guy but I do feel sorry for RIM this time. Sure, they deserve some bad press for taking so long to develope new phones. I don't think they deserve our resentment for taking so long to release it now.

    If RIM would have announced a release date of August/September back at the beginning of the year, think of how many phones they would have sold until then. I know people that have been waiting for their upgrade because we have all felt it was just weeks away. Those people would have bought a phone from RIM and traded later if they knew it would have taken so long.

    What about the people that got so pissed because of the way they perceived RIM's failure for not announcing a release date and switched to IPhone or Android. All the time causing Rim to drop market shares and stock prices.

    If I was one of those conspiracy theory type people, I would think Iphone paid Verizon and ATT off to delay the 99XX because they are benefitting from all of this. I am just saying
    Of course, you are basing none of this on fact, right? You don't really know where the hold up is here. Maybe the carriers are delaying it so they can dump some older model BlackBerries? Or maybe RIM is still working out the kinks in the software? Or maybe the carriers have a strict testing process so they don't waste hours and dollars on labor to handle and process return kits? OR maybe they are waiting for back-to-school promotions to launch it and take advantage of that time period to increase sales? That's a lot of maybes and I am just scratching the surface.

    My guess is that you don't remember the Verizon BlackBerry Storm debacle. That release was a trainwreck.
    07-24-11 07:14 PM
  4. 01itr's Avatar
    Device is finished and ready for use. Can't get into it but trust me on this: it is the carrier's who we are waiting for now.

    PS, the phone is incredible. It will impress
    07-24-11 08:59 PM
  5. FranzJoseph's Avatar
    If Telus is not the first to release this in Canada, they are going to be hearing from me.
    07-24-11 09:26 PM
  6. paul386's Avatar
    It was painful reading this message.
    07-24-11 09:28 PM
  7. Mikey112's Avatar
    Device is finished and ready for use. Can't get into it but trust me on this: it is the carrier's who we are waiting for now.

    PS, the phone is incredible. It will impress
    How would you know?
    07-24-11 09:29 PM
  8. 01itr's Avatar
    How would you know?
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...-phone-632391/
    07-24-11 09:31 PM
  9. 2001bmw330xi's Avatar
    I don't really feel that sympathetic for RIM at all. I know people really dislike comparisons to Apple, but their success cannot be ignored... it would be ignorant not to recognize it and try to learn from it.

    Jobs & Apple follow a methodical protocol for their launches that is a recipe for success. When Steve Jobs stands up on that stage at a press conference holding a new device, all of the details are already worked out with the carriers. There is nothing to guess - there are very little uncertainties. The presentation is not over until all of the key features of the device have been discussed (if not demonstrated), the exact carrier availability date (for initial launch; of course other carriers jump onboard later), the hardware pricing, the monthly pricing, and how one can get it (in store, online pre-orders, etc.).

    Let's compare to the 9900: RIM announces a device. Gave a vague sense of release date. Didn't really indicate carriers (although they can be extrapolated from available bands). No details on price. No details on some KEY features (i.e. hotspot).

    Sure, you can point fingers at the carrier - but it would be easier for everybody if RIM took it upon themselves to see their devices all the way through - from beginning to end - from their R&D sketches all the way to our holsters. That's what other companies do and they need to get on board with that to keep up. It would be some extra work for them initially but I'm pretty sure it would reduce RIM employee and consumer frustration in the long run.

    Look at how RIM handled the Playbook and Bridge issue. At the end of the day, most consumers point their fingers at AT&T for being greedy (which they are, nobody will deny that). But the root of the problem is that RIM didn't work out a KEY feature of a MAJOR device before launching it into the wild, especially with a carrier as big as AT&T. If RIM had contacted AT&T about it early, then RIM could have informed us that AT&T will be the only carrier charging for bridge - we still would have all been mad at AT&T, but we would have been grateful that RIM did their due diligence and informed us of what restrictions/conditions come along with their device and the 'services' it provides.

    I know - it's unreasonable to do something like work out ALL of the details with ALL of the carriers worldwide when you announce a device. But if RIM had even just the Canadian or North American carrier deals worked out and had announced the exact pricing etc., then it would be easier for other carriers picking up the device later to just use that as a model.
    Last edited by 2001bmw330xi; 07-25-11 at 12:42 PM.
    TMElectric likes this.
    07-25-11 12:36 PM
  10. 01itr's Avatar
    I don't really feel that sympathetic for RIM at all. I know people really dislike comparisons to Apple, but their success cannot be ignored... it would be ignorant not to recognize it and try to learn from it.

    Jobs & Apple follow a methodical protocol for their launches that is a recipe for success. When Steve Jobs stands up on that stage at a press conference holding a new device, all of the details are already worked out with the carriers. There is nothing to guess - there are very little uncertainties. The presentation is not over until all of the key features of the device have been discussed (if not demonstrated), the exact carrier availability date (for initial launch; of course other carriers jump onboard later), the hardware pricing, the monthly pricing, and how one can get it (in store, online pre-orders, etc.).

    Let's compare to the 9900: RIM announces a device. Gave a vague sense of release date. Didn't really indicate carriers (although they can be extrapolated from available bands). No details on price. No details on some KEY features (i.e. hotspot).

    Sure, you can point fingers at the carrier - but it would be easier for everybody if RIM took it upon themselves to see their devices all the way through - from beginning to end - from their R&D sketches all the way to our holsters. That's what other companies do and they need to get on board with that to keep up. It would be some extra work for them initially but I'm pretty sure it would reduce RIM employee and consumer frustration in the long run.

    Look at how RIM handled the Playbook and Bridge issue. At the end of the day, most consumers point their fingers at AT&T for being greedy (which they are, nobody will deny that). But the root of the problem is that RIM didn't work out a KEY feature of a MAJOR device before launching it into the wild, especially with a carrier as big as AT&T. If RIM had contacted AT&T about it early, then RIM could have informed us that AT&T will be the only carrier charging for bridge - we still would have all been mad at AT&T, but we would have been grateful that RIM did their due diligence and informed us of what restrictions/conditions come along with their device and the 'services' it provides.

    I know - it's unreasonable to do something like work out ALL of the details with ALL of the carriers worldwide when you announce a device. But if RIM had even just the Canadian or North American carrier deals worked out and had announced the exact pricing etc., then it would be easier for other carriers picking up the device later to just use that as a model.
    But you also have to think from RIMs perspective. If they didn't announce the new phones until a couple weeks before they were going to be released, we still wouldn't have heard about them yet. This is where RIM and Apple have differences.

    Everyone knows that Apple comes out with new iterations of its devices every year, which is why people anticipate and wait until those dates to use their upgrades.

    Now take RIM, they don't have a set date, so people are left guessing. Now, say RIM never announced any of these new OS7 devices yet, and no one knew about them. And so your upgrade comes up and you go out and buy a new Torch 9800! How pissed off would you be when the Torch 2 comes out that makes your brand new 9800 look like garbage. You would be furious.

    Now that's the best-case scenario, since you bought another Blackberry, helping RIM retain their marketshare. But say you are a regular consumer, who hasn't seen a new BB come out in almost a year, with no new devices in sight, and your upgrade comes around. Hello shiny new Android/iOS devices! Aw RIM just came out with a really good new device? Oh well, I already bought a phone...

    RIM did a good job announcing the phones when they did. Imagine the outlook people would have on them right now if we all had no idea they were coming out with new phones...
    07-25-11 01:26 PM
  11. Mr Bigs's Avatar
    I know that sounds funny sort of but imagine if you made a product that would "turn their comapany around". A product that people have been waiting so long for. AND some other company is delaying it's release.

    By delaying the release, it has caused RIM's stock to go down, loss in market shares, and just generally bad press. I want this as bad as the next guy but I do feel sorry for RIM this time. Sure, they deserve some bad press for taking so long to develope new phones. I don't think they deserve our resentment for taking so long to release it now.

    If RIM would have announced a release date of August/September back at the beginning of the year, think of how many phones they would have sold until then. I know people that have been waiting for their upgrade because we have all felt it was just weeks away. Those people would have bought a phone from RIM and traded later if they knew it would have taken so long.

    What about the people that got so pissed because of the way they perceived RIM's failure for not announcing a release date and switched to IPhone or Android. All the time causing Rim to drop market shares and stock prices.

    If I was one of those conspiracy theory type people, I would think Iphone paid Verizon and ATT off to delay the 99XX because they are benefitting from all of this. I am just saying
    You really should be banned for a couple of days for posting this B.S !!!! Who gives a damn what RIM feels right now,let their products speak for themselves.
    07-25-11 01:47 PM
  12. sportline's Avatar
    what rim's feeling?
    ask jennifer beals. DJ mcmario's also good, "what a feeling 2003 "

    i bet a lot of employees are running around try not to get fired. why would they care about the product?
    07-25-11 01:53 PM
  13. 2001bmw330xi's Avatar
    But you also have to think from RIMs perspective. If they didn't announce the new phones until a couple weeks before they were going to be released, we still wouldn't have heard about them yet. This is where RIM and Apple have differences.

    Everyone knows that Apple comes out with new iterations of its devices every year, which is why people anticipate and wait until those dates to use their upgrades.

    Now take RIM, they don't have a set date, so people are left guessing. Now, say RIM never announced any of these new OS7 devices yet, and no one knew about them. And so your upgrade comes up and you go out and buy a new Torch 9800! How pissed off would you be when the Torch 2 comes out that makes your brand new 9800 look like garbage. You would be furious.

    Now that's the best-case scenario, since you bought another Blackberry, helping RIM retain their marketshare. But say you are a regular consumer, who hasn't seen a new BB come out in almost a year, with no new devices in sight, and your upgrade comes around. Hello shiny new Android/iOS devices! Aw RIM just came out with a really good new device? Oh well, I already bought a phone...

    RIM did a good job announcing the phones when they did. Imagine the outlook people would have on them right now if we all had no idea they were coming out with new phones...
    That's exactly what the problem is - there was no set date. Imagine if you were the average consumer right now - you may nor may not have heard about the new device. Even if you did, you can't research a reliable release date - sure you might wait a month, maybe two, and finally still just go to a different platform since the announced phone never came out and there is no release date from a company with a track record of pushing things back or silently killing them.

    So it would have been better for them to wait and announce it later. Sure a few who would have gotten a phone and then seen a new one 1 week later would get mad - but that happens with all phones/companies. And it will happen with the 9900/9930 anyways - since nobody knows when to expect it. It happened just this morning actually - when the screenshot of the sprint release date leaked as 8/21, a forum member HERE started a new thread complaining how he just got a BB Style and of course now there is a release date. Luckily with most carriers you can return the phone within 30 days. So you see - that problem is bound to happen with either method. Might as well go the Apple way and only announce things that are already on paper and only make promises that you know can be fulfilled. RIM probably wouldn't have even announced the 9900/9930 but felt they had to in order to retain some semblance of investor interest/confidence in the platform.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by 2001bmw330xi; 07-25-11 at 02:29 PM.
    07-25-11 02:22 PM
  14. sjsplaty's Avatar
    um...its been more than a year since a new device, with the exception of the Torch, has been released by RIM. And even at that, the Torch was only released for limited carriers. The reality is that RIM has not innovated anything recently. If they feel crappy, it should be because they should have known 2 years ago that consumers would want more powerful, feature driven phones, and did virtually nothing about it. Now their stock price is in the toilet, users are jumping ship, and even the 9900, which I will buy because I am a RIM loyalist, really isn't a giant step forward. It is basically a touch screen bold with a faster processor and more memory. If RIM wants to feel badly, it should do so because of its own doing.
    07-25-11 02:32 PM
  15. 2001bmw330xi's Avatar
    ^ well said. My accountant always says, "learn the 5P's; Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance". RIM apparently needs to learn that too. I hope that these new devices hit soon and can magically save the company -

    But think about this. If you actually follow what the company has proposed - why should the average person go get an OS 7 phone, when RIM is promising a super-duper-QNX-Android-iOS-destroyer within 12 months... Yet North American carriers lock you in for 24!? So again - RIM has kind of shot itself in the foot here by trying to play catchup with OS 7 devices (which is all marketing - its 6.1 under the hood) and announcing future plans that make it obvious that these are just placeholders.

    I hope this strategy works - but its all wrong. These "OS 7" phones should have been out 6 months ago.
    But what kind of strategy is that to make your own products outdated in less than 12 months of their release and all the while you've preemptively stated that OS7 phones won't be upgradable to QNX. Why should a big company buy 100 new 9900s when the company who makes it has already moved on to develop future products

    RIM enthusiasts like us will go get an OS 7 and then QNX as soon as it launches - but most people won't. If they buy now then they'll be mad next year. If they do a little research, they'll just wait to see what QNX can do and OS 7 devices will stay on the shelves in the back dark corners of carrier retail stores where many blackberry phones have been exiled to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by 2001bmw330xi; 07-25-11 at 02:53 PM.
    07-25-11 02:43 PM
  16. 01itr's Avatar
    OS 7 devices (which is all marketing - its 6.1 under the hood)
    I can assure you that the performance and quality of this OS garners its own big release. It's a massive improvement from OS6

    Now RIM enthusiasts like us will go get an OS 7 and then QNX as soon as it launches - but most people won't. If they buy now then they'll be mad next year. If they do a little research, they'll just wait to see what QNX can do and OS 7 devices will stay on the shelves in the back dark corners of carrier retail stores where many blackberry phones have been exiled to.
    This is the predicament Blackberry is in, and why no major tech company has ever successfully transitioned their OS at this magnitude before (at least I think). QNX is not ready, and wont be for at least 6-12 months. But RIM can't just sit back and let the 9800 be their flagship device until then!!

    My guess is that QNX phones will be released summer of 2012, almost a year after the OS7 releases. But if they are smart, they will wait until the iPhone 6 comes out, or at least the specs, so they can maybe make some last minute changes to make it better than it. (a la Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1)
    07-25-11 02:53 PM
  17. 2001bmw330xi's Avatar
    I can assure you that the performance and quality of this OS garners its own big release. It's a massive improvement from OS6



    This is the predicament Blackberry is in
    Yes, its an improved OS, but a lot of the improved performance you are seeing is largely because of new hardware that is double the capabilities of current devices. A lot of the OS changes are aesthetic, no?

    Yes, its the current predicament - and its sad to admit but RIM is going down the only available path that is left for them to explore. It is, however, only appropriate to see that RIM did not have foresight and that is a LARGE part of what got them here. Not carriers. I hope, as do you I'm sure, that this all comes together nicely.

    I am personally very excited for these new products and just want to get them in my hands!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by 2001bmw330xi; 07-25-11 at 03:02 PM.
    07-25-11 02:58 PM
  18. 01itr's Avatar
    Yes, its an improved OS, but a lot of the improved performance you are seeing is largely because of new hardware that is double the capabilities of current devices. A lot of the OS changes are aesthetic, no?
    Yes this is true, but you can't simply slap OS6 on one of these new devices and expect to see the same results. Whenever there is new hardware, the software has to be redesigned to take advantage of it, and to use it properly. Yeah sure the newest Android phones have blazing fast processors and RAM. It's nice for 6 hours until the battery dies. And yeah applications run fast on it, until they force close on you...

    For example: The reason it is now running so smoothly and silkily is not only because of the new hardware, but they also had to write the software to utilize the GPU on their new CPU chip. OS6 would have still used the CPU.
    07-25-11 03:15 PM
  19. 2001bmw330xi's Avatar
    Nice! Those are the kinds of things that blackberry needs to push and advertise more. How efficiently the devices manage power and data to bring a balanced experience. Can't wait to get em.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-25-11 03:22 PM
  20. TMElectric's Avatar
    ^ well said. My accountant always says, "learn the 5P's; Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance". RIM apparently needs to learn that too. I hope that these new devices hit soon and can magically save the company -

    But think about this. If you actually follow what the company has proposed - why should the average person go get an OS 7 phone, when RIM is promising a super-duper-QNX-Android-iOS-destroyer within 12 months... Yet North American carriers lock you in for 24!? So again - RIM has kind of shot itself in the foot here by trying to play catchup with OS 7 devices (which is all marketing - its 6.1 under the hood) and announcing future plans that make it obvious that these are just placeholders.

    I hope this strategy works - but its all wrong. These "OS 7" phones should have been out 6 months ago.
    But what kind of strategy is that to make your own products outdated in less than 12 months of their release and all the while you've preemptively stated that OS7 phones won't be upgradable to QNX. Why should a big company buy 100 new 9900s when the company who makes it has already moved on to develop future products

    RIM enthusiasts like us will go get an OS 7 and then QNX as soon as it launches - but most people won't. If they buy now then they'll be mad next year. If they do a little research, they'll just wait to see what QNX can do and OS 7 devices will stay on the shelves in the back dark corners of carrier retail stores where many blackberry phones have been exiled to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I agree with what you are saying to a certain extent. Iphone releases their phones every year as planned and as you have stated, this works great for them. Maybe this is a big reason companies are buying RIM phones because they know their big investment on 100 new 9900s would generally last several years. Not get outdated within the 1st year like the Iphone

    RIM seems to be "off" schedule by our standards. Meaning, to me, they still are making the best business smartphones out there. There are very few reasons for me to buy the 9930 phone over my 9650. Keep in mind the reasons I bought the 9650 was for business communication. Not games or movies or such. With this in mind, RIM should not have to update their phones but every few years.

    We as the consumers are the ones caught up with having RIM come out with new phones to compete with Iphone or Android. To me, this is like my wife telling me she still loves me, just wants a younger, newer version of my neighbor. I know I am stretching here but we fell in love with Blackberry for the business reasons and business reasons only. The little shortcuts, the keyboard, the fast email, etc.

    RIM's guilty of not changing to be the neighbor. Maybe RIM only wants to be themselves and we were the ones that are making them change causing them to release phones now that will be outdated when QNX comes out.

    NOW before anyone comments about my post and I do welcome all comments because I really would like to hear from all different views about what I said so maybe I can learn something, I will step into my closet and put my thicker skin suit lined with flame retardant...Flame away
    07-25-11 03:24 PM
  21. ZMc1834's Avatar
    um...its been more than a year since a new device, with the exception of the Torch, has been released by RIM. And even at that, the Torch was only released for limited carriers. The reality is that RIM has not innovated anything recently. If they feel crappy, it should be because they should have known 2 years ago that consumers would want more powerful, feature driven phones, and did virtually nothing about it. Now their stock price is in the toilet, users are jumping ship, and even the 9900, which I will buy because I am a RIM loyalist, really isn't a giant step forward. It is basically a touch screen bold with a faster processor and more memory. If RIM wants to feel badly, it should do so because of its own doing.
    I know some people don't like it, but I have seen multiple quotes from owners and people I know that have them, but BB also released the Style last year as well. Some think they are not good phones, but there is a market for them and people do actually enjoy them; my sister actually wants me to take her to get one soon since they are going for free right now with a 2-yr contract.
    07-25-11 03:25 PM
  22. KingLuTheGreat's Avatar
    i dont give a flying**** how RIM feels. I want my bold 9900.
    Last edited by Crucial_Xtreme; 07-25-11 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Language
    07-25-11 03:28 PM
  23. 01itr's Avatar
    I know some people don't like it, but I have seen multiple quotes from owners and people I know that have them, but BB also released the Style last year as well. Some think they are not good phones, but there is a market for them and people do actually enjoy them; my sister actually wants me to take her to get one soon since they are going for free right now with a 2-yr contract.
    My Aunt has one and loves it, my mom wants to go out and get one now too. It seems the other OSes abandoned the flip phone market, but there are still a bunch of people who want them.
    07-25-11 03:29 PM
  24. 2001bmw330xi's Avatar
    I agree with what you are saying to a certain extent. Iphone releases their phones every year as planned and as you have stated, this works great for them. Maybe this is a big reason companies are buying RIM phones because they know their big investment on 100 new 9900s would generally last several years. Not get outdated within the 1st year like the Iphone



    RIM seems to be "off" schedule by our standards. Meaning, to me, they still are making the best business smartphones out there. There are very few reasons for me to buy the 9930 phone over my 9650. Keep in mind the reasons I bought the 9650 was for business communication. Not games or movies or such. With this in mind, RIM should not have to update their phones but every few years.



    We as the consumers are the ones caught up with having RIM come out with new phones to compete with Iphone or Android. To me, this is like my wife telling me she still loves me, just wants a younger, newer version of my neighbor. I know I am stretching here but we fell in love with Blackberry for the business reasons and business reasons only. The little shortcuts, the keyboard, the fast email, etc.



    RIM's guilty of not changing to be the neighbor. Maybe RIM only wants to be themselves and we were the ones that are making them change causing them to release phones now that will be outdated when QNX comes out.



    NOW before anyone comments about my post and I do welcome all comments because I really would like to hear from all different views about what I said so maybe I can learn something, I will step into my closet and put my thicker skin suit lined with flame retardant...Flame away

    What you are saying is true. This doesn't quite fit with your analogy, but the problem here is that other companies have duplicated (and in some cases improved on) many of the same innovations that RIM introduced to the market. Furthermore many can do all of the business stuff AND the personal things (media, games, etc) in attractive and flashy ways. So in turn, if RIM wishes to survive, it must adapt. Or else slowly hemorrhage its customers year after year because other devices, that do many of the same functions, can appeal to the average consumer because its wrapped in a "flashier" package. We (bb enthusiast community) all recognize the stable core principles of blackberry and why we're less likely to leave... If ever. Because we have faith in the brand and still appreciate it. But again - that's not enough to get you new business nor is it going to retain the sheep as they line up for a flashy iPhone 7G-brain-implant.
    A man's wife may not leave him for the new young pool boy, that doesn't mean she's never thought about it. The best way to prevent that is for the man to hit the gym or do whatever to keep things interesting (just trying to bring it back to your analogy, this is in no way a personal comment towards you)

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    TMElectric likes this.
    07-25-11 03:51 PM
  25. dalton4L's Avatar
    Well there's 30 seconds I'll never get back.
    321 posts and all of your 'likes' came from #321.
    01itr likes this.
    07-25-11 03:55 PM
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