08-14-11 02:23 PM
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  1. pythons's Avatar
    https://picasaweb.google.com/1107586...O7klvTjpb_xYQ#

    Auto and closeup picture comparison with the bold 9900. Props goes to euro2low for his review.
    I also commend euro2 for his outstanding review. The close up shots, of the type used in the business community, are ATROCIOUS. There is simply no other way to describe them. In 2011 there is no excuse for a "new & improved" model of anything to be of lessor quality than what it was 2 years previous.
    08-10-11 10:23 PM
  2. pythons's Avatar
    Side-by-side, the iPhone photos look superior IMO.
    The iphone absolutely does, it has a "quality camera" in it.
    08-10-11 10:25 PM
  3. CrownIsle's Avatar
    Pythos, thats a very valid point.....that new and improved should not mean lessor quality than what something was prior. At least with regards to camera.
    08-10-11 10:33 PM
  4. pythons's Avatar
    Pythos, thats a very valid point.....that new and improved should not mean lessor quality than what something was prior. At least with regards to camera.
    Yes, key word in that phrase being "improved". I think it's great that RIM put some power under the hood of it's flagship and equiped it with a touch screen - I love the look of the 9930 but if this camera issue isn't fixed via some "software update" by the time it sold at Sprint I'll move to an iphone or droid. I simply use the camera in my bold 9650 to much and it would be foolish pack around two devices when I've been using one for two years.

    Massive error on RIMS part to do this to their "high end" "Flagship". WOW!
    08-10-11 10:58 PM
  5. bnz506's Avatar


    Sometimes I solve problems (biochemistry) on paper that I take pictures of to send friends who need help... Does this mean if I want this phone, I have to carry my digital camera and laptop with me so I can email it to friends?
    08-10-11 11:15 PM
  6. yeedub's Avatar


    Sometimes I solve problems (biochemistry) on paper that I take pictures of to send friends who need help... Does this mean if I want this phone, I have to carry my digital camera and laptop with me so I can email it to friends?
    Or carry a magnifying glass.

    Of course some on this forum may simply say that a real tutor would use a whiteboard or teleconferencing equipment and not a toy cellphone.
    08-10-11 11:22 PM
  7. nikonwhore's Avatar
    I created my account just to vent a bit. I was in the Bell store today to try out the 9900 and after my eye candy drooling and excitement over the huge step up in build quality, I took some macro shots of the phone plan handouts Bell had on the counter. It was terrible. Sure I could read the documents, but I had to really read each individual letter out to make sure I had them in place.

    I am a clinical psychology student and I can't count how many times I have used my Bold 9700 to take shots of psychometric test protocols/documents/sample material that I would need to complete psychological assessments, simply because I did not have access to certain psychometric test material while out in the field. It has saved me hassle and worry more than a few times when I needed to make a quick scan of such documents for a report that would need to be filed out later in the night.

    I consider the macro function on my 9700 nearly priceless for convenience and usefulness in my professional life. I am actually really angry that RIM ditched such a basic feature in its quest for thinness. If the Nokia N8 can pack a camera that can replace a point and shoot in a relatively small package, RIM should be able to pack in a basic macro mode in their flagship phone.

    Its actually pretty annoying for me, because I do not carry my photo rig out with me when I am doing a psychological assessment, I carry my psychological testing kits. And this is where having a camera phone is incredibly useful.

    I was hoping the macro function on the Bold 9900 would be decent in some miraculous manner, but alas it is not.

    When I say that I am using the scanning function, I am scanning full test protocols with upwards of 600 words per page. It simply doesn't work with the EDOF camera. I cannot use these scans when I have to individually decipher each word out.

    What I saw was the same terrible quality in my first Bold 9000. Not happy.
    Last edited by nikonwhore; 08-10-11 at 11:38 PM.
    08-10-11 11:34 PM
  8. pythons's Avatar


    Sometimes I solve problems (biochemistry) on paper that I take pictures of to send friends who need help... Does this mean if I want this phone, I have to carry my digital camera and laptop with me so I can email it to friends?
    For those kinds of captures YES, the 9900 will NOT be able to do it....
    ...Of course as the other poster suggested you could simply hold a magnifying glass over the calculations and then shoot the shot.

    Important to note: the "WORK AROUND" suggestion actually came by way of an online article / review on EDOF that was PRO EDOF - as in the people who like EDOF suggested doing that.

    From what I've been able to see from the several reviews an EDOF camera does "ok" in other areas - at least more than good enough for a smartphone camera. The problem we have with the 9900 is that it simply can't take the kinds of shots taken as part of simple business requirements.
    bnz506 likes this.
    08-11-11 12:56 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I think it's established now that the 9900 will not take good close up pictures but the other side of the coin is this, have you ever tried to take photos of your kids in a swing with an autofocus camera phone? Or a passing car or taking pictures out of a moving car. Have you ever took the phone out of the pocket for that quick candid photo opportunity only to miss it completely due to the autofocus taking its time or maybe because you couldn't keep it still enough?

    I think you're far more likely to take such photos then photos of documents.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-11 01:38 AM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And how about this app idea, an app that will take a photo of a document from a further distance and automatically crop the picture to the edge of the document. Shouldn't be too hard. Problem solved. Next.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-11 01:41 AM
  11. sivan's Avatar
    I still haven't seen a photo taken at a distance and cropped, or one taken in the camera close up mode.

    I have no direct experience with the 9900, but I can't see why this mode couldn't mimic taking the photo at a distance, enlarging it on the screen with digital zoom and snapping whatever is in the frame. That's only speculation.

    Will someone have a look at this mode?
    08-11-11 01:44 AM
  12. pythons's Avatar
    I think it's established now that the 9900 will not take good close up pictures but the other side of the coin is this, have you ever tried to take photos of your kids in a swing with an autofocus camera phone? Or a passing car or taking pictures out of a moving car. Have you ever took the phone out of the pocket for that quick candid photo opportunity only to miss it completely due to the autofocus taking its time or maybe because you couldn't keep it still enough?

    I think you're far more likely to take such photos then photos of documents.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I spend about 10 - 11 hours at work a day and actually use what was advertisted as a business phone as a business phone. The vast majority of the pictures I take are directly related to "business".

    If RIM has opted to mutate the Bold from being a business smartphone to more of a social smartphone, ok.

    I was under the impression the add was something like "serious phone for serious business"...
    ...With an EDOF camera in it I'm not sure what kind of business RIM had in mind other than monkey.

    As far as taking shots from a moving car, or of my Family I have a trusty old Canon 10D I bought years ago that does a great job for pictures not related to business and I use it to this day.

    I just expected a business smart phone to be able to take the standard type of pictures the majority of people who use their phone for business take. It's frankly alien for RIM to have done this to their flagship "business phone".


    example of the type of business related shot I take on my 9650.
    Fr3lncr, 757EliasHZ and deiop like this.
    08-11-11 01:46 AM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I spend about 10 - 11 hours at work a day and actually use what was advertisted as a business phone as a business phone. The vast majority of the pictures I take are directly related to "business".

    If RIM has opted to mutate the Bold from being a business smartphone to more of a social smartphone, ok.

    I was under the impression the add was something like "serious phone for serious business"...
    ...With an EDOF camera in it I'm not sure what kind of business RIM had in mind other than monkey.

    As far as taking shots from a moving car, or of my Family I have a trusty old Canon 10D I bought years ago that does a great job for pictures not related to business and I use it to this day.

    I just expected a business smart phone to be able to take the standard type of pictures the majority of people who use their phone for business take. It's frankly alien for RIM to have done this to their flagship "business phone".


    example of the type of business related shot I take on my 9650.
    Taking photos with a phone is in no way a business feature, in fact in many business environments camera gets disabled on blackberrys.

    And my common sense tells me you should be using your devices the other way around, if taking pictures is so important in your work you should be using a dedicated camera, you probably use a phone camera just for convenience.

    You're more likely to have your phone in your pocket then your Cannon when you're out and about with your kids or when you spot a candid photo opportunity.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-11 02:55 AM
  14. Maiev's Avatar
    Sample pictures

    This is with 9700 just prior switching to 9900.

    Sample 9700 - Auto

    This is with my 9900. I took 3 just to make sure I tried my best :3

    9900 1 - Auto
    9900 2 - Close-Ups
    9900 3 - Auto

    Sigh
    Last edited by Maiev; 08-11-11 at 03:07 AM.
    08-11-11 03:04 AM
  15. siausin's Avatar
    one way to have a better close up shot is instead of taking a close up shot take a further away shot and then zoom in the photo..not perfect but better clarity than a close up shot

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-11 03:18 AM
  16. barrist's Avatar
    I spend about 10 - 11 hours at work a day and actually use what was advertisted as a business phone as a business phone. The vast majority of the pictures I take are directly related to "business".

    If RIM has opted to mutate the Bold from being a business smartphone to more of a social smartphone, ok.

    I was under the impression the add was something like "serious phone for serious business"...
    ...With an EDOF camera in it I'm not sure what kind of business RIM had in mind other than monkey.

    As far as taking shots from a moving car, or of my Family I have a trusty old Canon 10D I bought years ago that does a great job for pictures not related to business and I use it to this day.

    I just expected a business smart phone to be able to take the standard type of pictures the majority of people who use their phone for business take. It's frankly alien for RIM to have done this to their flagship "business phone".


    example of the type of business related shot I take on my 9650.
    Stop calling AF on a camera phone a business feature. It isn't. It may be for the .0000000000001% of jobs that require picture-taking that for some reason have to be taken from a cellphone and not a dedicated camera. The majority of people who use their phone for business don't use the camera period. The majority of people who need to take pictures for their job often have these things called cameras they carry around for this purpose (for someone who spends 11 hours a day--man those are some ****ty hours--taking pics you'd think it a no brainer to have your own camera). Stop trying to make your niche job whatever it is sound like the entire business community. It's getting annoying.
    08-11-11 03:33 AM
  17. siausin's Avatar
    Just because it has no AF it is a monkey phone not for business? Stop whinning, go get a AF phone and your business solved..
    08-11-11 04:05 AM
  18. olblueyez's Avatar
    To be honest, the 9700 pictures suck too, I would not feel comfortable posting any of them here at Crackberry. For stuff like that I have a Fuji F30 that is 6 or 7 years old and it take super nice pictures. I use my camera phone to remember things like a song playing in my car, so I snap a shot of the touch screen on the dash, then look it up later. I am not sure why people insist that one phone do everything perfectly. Maybe a "real camera phone" designed to take Point-And-Shoot pictures would be more realistic. Why buy a Blackberry for taking pictures of documents? Do better camera phones than all the models mentioned exist? Sure they do. Do they have BIS, Compression, NFC, qwerty & Touch screen, a digital compass, blah blah blah,,... Probably not. You guys think the iPhone offers more at the same price then buy it. It's going to cost more money to own in the long run but jerking your weenies about "phone camera's" isn't going to change the 9900 or any other phone for that matter.

    I noticed Toshiba has a 12MP, Waterproof, Android, would that not be better for an insurance investigator driving around in his car with a auto power adapter so the Android can snap a few shots and go back to being charged?

    Ok, let the,,... but but but but,,...what if,,what if,,what if,,...BS Begin
    Last edited by olblueyez; 08-11-11 at 05:41 AM.
    08-11-11 05:08 AM
  19. Fr3lncr's Avatar
    I spend about 10 - 11 hours at work a day and actually use what was advertisted as a business phone as a business phone. The vast majority of the pictures I take are directly related to "business".

    If RIM has opted to mutate the Bold from being a business smartphone to more of a social smartphone, ok.

    I was under the impression the add was something like "serious phone for serious business"...
    ...With an EDOF camera in it I'm not sure what kind of business RIM had in mind other than monkey.

    As far as taking shots from a moving car, or of my Family I have a trusty old Canon 10D I bought years ago that does a great job for pictures not related to business and I use it to this day.

    I just expected a business smart phone to be able to take the standard type of pictures the majority of people who use their phone for business take. It's frankly alien for RIM to have done this to their flagship "business phone".
    Taking photos with a phone is in no way a business feature, in fact in many business environments camera gets disabled on blackberrys.

    And my common sense tells me you should be using your devices the other way around, if taking pictures is so important in your work you should be using a dedicated camera, you probably use a phone camera just for convenience.

    You're more likely to have your phone in your pocket then your Cannon when you're out and about with your kids or when you spot a candid photo opportunity.
    Stop calling AF on a camera phone a business feature. It isn't. It may be for the .0000000000001% of jobs that require picture-taking that for some reason have to be taken from a cellphone and not a dedicated camera. The majority of people who use their phone for business don't use the camera period. The majority of people who need to take pictures for their job often have these things called cameras they carry around for this purpose (for someone who spends 11 hours a day--man those are some ****ty hours--taking pics you'd think it a no brainer to have your own camera). Stop trying to make your niche job whatever it is sound like the entire business community. It's getting annoying.
    Disclaimer: I use my blackberry as a personal device and not for work so not having a good camera in the 9900 wouldn't affect my work at all... However, I have to agree with Pythons on this. It's a business/work phone meaning people will use it for their work and that work can involve having to take shots from time to time and, I'm sorry, but logically that is more than a 'niche' segment.

    Think of people who work out in the field on sites that need to take shots of things for their work (engineers or whatever). I have a friend who is an environmental engineer and he always has to take photos of things on his sites and he uses his 9700 for that. And if you think about it, there would be loads of more examples.

    I'm of the opinion that if you are going to to something, do it right or not at all. The whole 'some businesses don't even allow camera' argument as justification for a feature that isn't as good as its predecessor is B.S. Why? Those individuals can just have the model that will come with no camera which I'm sure RIM will put out. So for the 9900's that do have the camera, RIM shouldn't have hobbled it up front.

    More disclaimers since people seem to get all jumpy when there are levels of critiques in posts: I'm not saying, nor expecting, a camera that would replace an SLR but it should cover the bases. Yes, I understand that the camera is still fine for landscape shots and it's only marco or close up shots that seem to be the ones most affected. And, yes, I can still be a BB fan and criticize things where needed. Not doing so means you aren't looking at things objectively which is the definition of a fanboy and that is a viewpoint that I don't agree with.

    So, let's just leave it at that for some people with bona fide requirements for their uses of the phone may be disappointed with the camera where as for others, it wont matter as much.
    pythons and jedimstr397 like this.
    08-11-11 07:07 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Can somebody test how far back do you have to stand before you get a clear close-up picture? Or I can just do it tomorrow as mine is in the post

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-11 07:14 AM
  21. kbz1960's Avatar
    What are you people taking pictures of for your job that you need the best camera in the world in your phone? The camera takes good pics as long as you aren't right on top of something.

    As far as taking pics of kids, houses or all most anything it might even take better pics.
    08-11-11 08:03 AM
  22. brava27's Avatar
    We are hardly ever gonna take close up pictures anyways. Relax people

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-11 09:20 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I just got a report from a tester that anything above 4in/10cm from the subject is nice and clear, bellow that gets blurry. So not so bad after all.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-11-11 09:57 AM
  24. pythons's Avatar
    Stop calling AF on a camera phone a business feature. It isn't.
    It is a business feature to more people than it isn't - that's what the whole concept of SMART in smartphone means...
    ...There are more people like me who use the camera function in their phones than who don't.
    ...Besides, it's a pathetic apologetic you offer on the reason RIM put EDOF in it's flagship.



    It may be for the .0000000000001% of jobs that require picture-taking that for some reason have to be taken from a cellphone and not a dedicated camera.
    You're missing the point here, it's NOT that the pictures "have to be" taken from a cellphone...
    ...It's that pictures CAN BE and when one device takes the place of 2,3,4 or 5 devices.
    ...The persons job / life naturallly gets easier.
    ...Which is the premise and reasons smartphones exist in the first place.

    You are trying to make a case for reverse-evolution whereas you see RIM justified in putting a junk camera in their new flagship 'smartphone' - a camera system that is UNABLE to shoot as good of a picture as the 1st generation BB Storm. This isn't the way evolution works at all.

    If something is to survive it must adapt to survive AND this means it doesn't loose by gradations those abilities which contributed to it's success. Is iphone and Droid reverse evolving their phones or are they improving them?


    The majority of people who use their phone for business don't use the camera period.
    The majority of people don't use blackberry AS their business phone today - they are using droid or iphone. Compare the camera on the iphone 4 ( which is about to evolve into the iphone 5, a camera on a droid that's 6 months old AND the camera on the 9900 which is just starting to launch.

    Of those three systems name the only Mfg who opted to "reverse evolve" their camera.



    The majority of people who need to take pictures for their job often have these things called cameras they carry around for this purpose (for someone who spends 11 hours a day--man those are some ****ty hours--taking pics you'd think it a no brainer to have your own camera). Stop trying to make your niche job whatever it is sound like the entire business community. It's getting annoying.
    I work for an auto-group in retail and in this sector of the business world speed equates to money ( being able to survive ). You may not understand what a "Bill of Lading" is so I'lll give you a little education into it.

    Transport trucks deliver new automobiles from a rail-head to the individual dealers of those autos - the vehicles are unloaded off the truck transports and the driver has the dealer sign the Lading.

    The Lading is a "transfer of liability" and if there is damage which is not noted on it subsequent to signing off on it YOU ( your company ) is LIABLE for that damage.

    If damage is detected you note it on the Lading and move on to the next step of documenting that damage by taking photographs of it, rock chips, scratches, small tear in a seat, WHATEVER.

    A report with attached photographs is then sent to the Mfg as well as the Transportation company and it's in the hands of of the insurance company after that.

    Prior to getting my Bold 9650 I would have to pack around a point and shoot and go through the motions of getting the pics off the camera, messing with batteries, etc.

    With my blackberry 9650 I could react when I got a call that there was damage, shoot all the pictures I needed and rename the pics right on my "SMARTPHONE" for the individual cars ( usually 4 pics for each damage spot ) x the number of actual damaged cars.

    This ability saved me all kinds of time and it didn't end with just that. I took a close up shot of the code sheets for recording damage and saved them on my phone so I didn't need to pack around three pages of damage codes and could just read them right off my phone.

    I'm not the only one who has a beef with this EDOF camera barrist - there have been many people who have sounded off the EDOF will impact them in a negative way - from people in school who use their 9780's to take pictures of notes to other people who snap DL's for their HR dept.

    Like I said I have a nice DSLR I use for weddings and Family events, vacations, ball games, etc. I don't expect any smart phone to compete with that and no one else with my view on this issue does either - what we did and do expect was that the 9900 would be able to take AT LEAST as good of pictures as our now three year old blackberry devices take.

    The other thing that drives me nuts is the foppish excuses I've heard about this issue, such as : "yeah but the camera really takes fast pictures now"!

    Come-on! that's like saying you can eat a can of pork-N-beans really fast if you use a funnel and coat your throat with KY jelly!

    I have used my blackberry as a "business tool" and love the U.I. and features it DID have - sure, like everyone else I appreciate a faster browser and a touch-screen but loosing an important FUNCTION of the phone wasn't even in my radar.

    This was a horrific mistake on RIMS part and if they are smart and IF they can improve by software the way their new flagship takes business related photos they must start on this ASAP - make a promise via a statement or something.
    yeedub likes this.
    08-11-11 12:12 PM
  25. pythons's Avatar
    What are you people taking pictures of for your job that you need the best camera in the world in your phone? The camera takes good pics as long as you aren't right on top of something.

    As far as taking pics of kids, houses or all most anything it might even take better pics.
    Some examples of shots I take every week from a nearly 3 year old blackberry....
    ...Previously to that phone I had to pack around a 'camera' and take notes with paper and pen.

    I'm not the only one who uses their blackberry to aid in the execution of their job. There are countless other applications a smartphone camera would be used for in "business".
    08-11-11 12:45 PM
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