09-12-11 12:23 AM
185 ... 34567 ...
tools
  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    +1, what's the point if you can't even use QR Codes.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
    Who says it can't? I scanned bbm qr codes to ad a new contact just fine

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-07-11 01:57 PM
  2. bmacc's Avatar
    With the right technique you can get really close, to a few words not paragraph.

    Just took these now in the car, not at a desk with a steady hand.
    Not trying to be overly picky, but how much effort does this require compared to an AF camera like the iPhone etc?

    I'd love to get a 9900, but with how effortless it was to snap photos at any range with my old i4, I'm still deciding. And waiting on AT&T
    09-07-11 02:05 PM
  3. sophace's Avatar
    My argument with the post is not that the 9900's camera takes terrible pictures, it's that the first post is completely wrong. It's akin to me giving a page long explanation on how Ferrari has a great electric engine that uses electricity instead of gas, when we all know there is no such engine on a Ferrari. The first post is misleading and if people reading it go away thinking that the Bold 9900 has some kind of auto focus, they are completely wrong. That's why it should be changed.

    The other thing to consider is auto focus cameras can be made to work close to EDoF cameras through digital settings, so why not have the best of both worlds? Auto focus settings for macro, or portrait shots where you would like to have someone in focus and the rest out of focus to provide some depth of field. AND, a setting like landscape or infinity that tries to capture everything in focus. That to me would be a superior offering vs. what the Bold offers today.

    Sophace
    Last edited by sophace; 09-07-11 at 02:17 PM.
    chiefbroski likes this.
    09-07-11 02:12 PM
  4. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    Excellent post!

    With the right technique you can get really close, to a few words not paragraph.

    Just took these now in the car, not at a desk with a steady hand.
    Great shot. This proves it is possible.
    09-07-11 02:22 PM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Not trying to be overly picky, but how much effort does this require compared to an AF camera like the iPhone etc?

    I'd love to get a 9900, but with how effortless it was to snap photos at any range with my old i4, I'm still deciding. And waiting on AT&T
    Hold the camera, zoom in, snap. How much effort does it take?

    On the other hand try taking a photo of a kid in a swing with the iphone4(or a 9700), how much effort does that take, how many take do you need before you figure out how much you have to compensate for the time delay from pressing the button to picture taken?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    kwalia71 likes this.
    09-07-11 02:40 PM
  6. papped's Avatar
    It normally took me a couple shots to get most pics in focus properly with an AF camera + having the shutter speed + flash match up properly so that the pic doesn't come out white...

    AF cameras very often require effort...
    09-07-11 02:42 PM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    It normally took me a couple shots to get most pics in focus properly with an AF camera + having the shutter speed + flash match up properly so that the pic doesn't come out white...

    AF cameras very often require effort...
    Exactly and many times two shots can be two shots too late.

    Actually there is one instance when edof camera takes better close up pictures, when it's dark enough to need flash, AF close up pics get distorted by the flash as you have to keep it close to the text, with EDOF flash actually helps clean the text as you keep it further away from the subject.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    09-07-11 02:46 PM
  8. chiefbroski's Avatar
    The Original Post is WRONG

    -The Bold 9900 has a fixed-focus camera with a large depth of field
    -Torches have the same camera but with a movable lens enabling changing the focusing distance
    -Torches cameras work EXACTLY the same as the Bold if they focus to near-infinity
    -ALL CELL CAMERAS ARE EDOF(large depth of field), EVEN THE TORCHES because of the small aperature to focal length ratio!
    -All edof on the Bold really means is that there is NO ADJUSTABLE FOCUS
    If autofocus can disabled on the Torches, you will get the EXACT same pictures with the exact same speed

    Summary:

    The Bold 9900 camera will take great photos at a distance, JUST LIKE THE TORCHES.
    The Bold will NEVER take better pictures than the Torches at any distance.
    The Torches have the added ability to focus closer than the Bold can.
    At distances closer than 15cm, you will never be able to take quality pictures with the Bold 9900.
    At farther distances, the camera is quick, takes great pictures and simple to use.
    Last edited by chiefbroski; 09-07-11 at 03:04 PM.
    09-07-11 02:58 PM
  9. papped's Avatar

    The Bold 9900 camera will take great photos at a distance, JUST LIKE THE TORCHES.
    The Bold will NEVER take better pictures than the Torches at any distance.
    The Torches have the added ability to focus closer than the Bold can.
    At distances closer than 15cm, you will never be able to take quality pictures with the Bold 9900.
    At farther distances, the camera is quick, takes great pictures and simple to use.
    Even the 9650 AF cameras will take crappy pictures at less than 6in distance from the target.... That's way too close.
    09-07-11 03:11 PM
  10. drfever's Avatar
    My God does anyone know what the set up to take pictures at a distance og 6 inches even with a macro lens and studio set up is? And they expect instant crisp and clean results from a cell phone camera?

    My recommendation short and sweet.

    If you need a phone for your office on the go, there is no better than the BB.

    If you want a phone to work as your compact travel camera as well, get a different phone.

    I can't believe we are really debating the relative merits of a cell phone camera.

    Again, it's like arguing why your compact camera won't accept incoming emails.

    Cell phone cameras, some better than others (and I no way implied that the 9900's camera was better than other cell phone devices' built in cameras) are add-on's to the device. The camera is not the primary function of the phone. Don't expect perfection.

    Figure out why you are buying a device and what you need it for and then plan and spend accordingly.

    Easy as that.
    Drayk likes this.
    09-07-11 03:21 PM
  11. drfever's Avatar
    Derwent Graphite ....

    We are not here to write a thesis about professional focussing systems found in semi-pro DSLR bodies.

    Know your gear and know what to expect. Many are incorrectly using their camera in their cell phones by expecting too much.

    I am well familiarized with the focussing systems etc. I wasn't intent on writing manuals about each manufacturer.

    But thanks for taking the time to de-construct rather than write your own constructive piece.
    09-07-11 03:27 PM
  12. chiefbroski's Avatar
    Even the 9650 AF cameras will take crappy pictures at less than 6in distance from the target.... That's way too close.
    I can focus closer than 6 inches with my Storm1 easily. The focusing limit is 4-5 inches from the subject to the lens. Check out my Storm 1's indoor shot without any flash. This about 4 inches away.



    TAKING USING A STORM 1. This is what Bold 9900 users will be missing. The image is fairly sharp. Any blurriness is due to my shaking hands and insufficient light in a basement. This is with only 3.2 megapixels. This is not possible on the Bold 9900, HOWEVER with its better sensor, and 5 megapixels, you might be able to get a reasonable shot if you crop, but nothing like this.

    Also, I know my photography and own a Nikon DSLR. The stock 18-55mm $150 lens can focus closer than 6 inches too.

    EDIT: And another close-up of the Canadian 20$ bill showing with flash on the STORM 9530.



    I work in nanotechnology and I use the Autofocus camera for work to take pictures of the samples. There is no way the Bold 9900 can match this. The autofocus may not be that important to many people, but I you cannot dismiss its limitations.
    Last edited by chiefbroski; 09-07-11 at 04:22 PM.
    westtwelve and funnykindel like this.
    09-07-11 04:06 PM
  13. papped's Avatar
    I've used the 9650 and 9800 af cameras plenty of times.... Up close shots for ebay almost always turned out terrible. I would have to shoot it farther than 6in away and then just crop the photo.

    That said I never found any reason to take photos of money so I haven't tested how AF pics of that would look...

    Also like 20% of the time the camera takes the photo while the image is whited out from the flash, rather than just illuminating it like it's supposed to.
    09-07-11 04:16 PM
  14. Drayk's Avatar
    OP.....don't sweat it man. You dropped an insightful post and plenty of us thank you for it.
    You're obviously knowledgeable in photography....your effort to lay out some constructive knowledge got lost here....
    The way crack heads are, that's to be expected.
    There are plenty here that agree with you.....plenty that don't.
    Some just rant....I am not excluded from this....but not in this thread.
    I, for one, appreciate you effort to educate those of us that don't know.
    drfever likes this.
    09-07-11 04:19 PM
  15. chiefbroski's Avatar
    I've used the 9650 and 9800 af cameras plenty of times.... Up close shots for ebay almost always turned out terrible. I would have to shoot it farther than 6in away and then just crop the photo.

    That said I never found any reason to take photos of money so I haven't tested how AF pics of that would look...

    Also like 20% of the time the camera takes the photo while the image is whited out from the flash, rather than just illuminating it like it's supposed to.
    I know what you mean. I don't use the autofocus very much, and the flash can make focusing difficult at times. I appreciate the OP's effort for a constructive post however, it is misleading many people who think they can take a high-resolution picture of jewelry, fine-print, insects, damage such as small scratches, puddled raindrops, or anything small that strikes their fancy when on the go.

    I am simply trying to show people the uses for autofocus that cannot be done using the Bold. The wife loves taking pictures of our cat up close using the autofocus feature on my Storm. By taking pictures of money, I'm demonstrating what kind of picture you cannot do with the Bold.

    And really, I'm glad we are having this discussion as your points are very valid. I just know that lots of us take pictures of small things too with our phones, and autofocus can complicate things at times. But if RIM can make an option to disable autofocus in the Torches, it would work exactly the same as the Bold.
    Thanks.
    Last edited by chiefbroski; 09-07-11 at 04:38 PM.
    09-07-11 04:32 PM
  16. Blaziniflo's Avatar
    I got the 9900 and everything I've tested has made it the best phone I've ever owned (owned 10 different Blackberrys and over 50 phones over the past 10 years).

    I think this thread needs to be constructive on how to get the best close-up shots for text and computer screens. We know it will never be as good as AF for close-up shots, but please give contributions if you have individual tips.

    The zoom and flash seems to work decently, but not if the font is small.
    siopow likes this.
    09-07-11 04:37 PM
  17. Graheem's Avatar
    Wow, what a thread. I have to say that all the whining about the cam...then don't use the 99xx for camera. I like the 99xx for 4G. I like it for the fact the browser loads multiple tabs of almost any link, unlike my 9700 which always said 'not enough memory, closing tabs'. I like it's large, clear, touch screen, and large great feeling keyboard.

    Did I lose something in with the 99xx camera, yes, but it's overshadowed by the other features. And as some of pointed out, for getting quick pics of anything, and especially kids, it's better. But yes I would have preferred the option of AF, better macro/text shooting, and more accurate color of my 9700 cam.

    In this thread, as well as 'real world' thread someone linked, are many great photos now from the 99xx. I will add a couple of my own links:

    Some basic examples:

    Picasa Web Albums - Sonic Vision - Blackberry 99...
    (I will also try to add some of my 9700 shots to compare at some point).

    Examples for shooting in dark nightclub:

    KMFDM - 2011-08-27 | Facebook
    kwalia71 likes this.
    09-07-11 04:44 PM
  18. papped's Avatar
    And really, I'm glad we are having this discussion as your points are very valid. I just know that lots of us take pictures of small things too with our phones, and autofocus can complicate things at times. But if RIM can make an option to disable autofocus in the Torches, it would work exactly the same as the Bold.
    Thanks.
    Yeah the main issue is that a lot of people in these camera threads only see this whole thing one way.
    09-07-11 04:45 PM
  19. blackmoe's Avatar
    Derwent Graphite ....

    We are not here to write a thesis about professional focussing systems found in semi-pro DSLR bodies.

    Know your gear and know what to expect. Many are incorrectly using their camera in their cell phones by expecting too much.

    I am well familiarized with the focussing systems etc. I wasn't intent on writing manuals about each manufacturer.

    But thanks for taking the time to de-construct rather than write your own constructive piece.
    When are you going to address the fact in your original post that you are completely wrong about the 9900 having continuous focus instead of just trying to deflect all posts that point that out.
    09-07-11 04:51 PM
  20. austriker's Avatar
    funny thing is, I am in the same boat.. photography is a hobby and thus when I focus my shots I like to focus, and then frame.. with a continuous focus this is basically not an option.. all well, I usually bust out my dslr for any serious shots anyways.
    09-07-11 05:23 PM
  21. rpmyher's Avatar
    For those that think the 9900 camera is not an improvement, please show me how you can take photos like these with an Autofocus Camera
    On the 9800 select scene mode - SPORTS, pre focus the camera to the distance you want in focus, then click menu key -> Autofocus -> Off

    You will get no focus lag, and picture will be sharp.

    By the way, on an SLR or advanced Point and Shoot you use Manual mode, select a very small aperture (f16 - f22) and a fast shutter speed - t=125 - 250, and set your camera to manual focus. Manually focus to the closest part of the scene you want sharp. (Also, depending on the available light, you may need to increase your ISO - to 800 or 1600)

    The aperture will give you a large depth of field (near to far in focus), the shutter speed will freeze the action, and the manual focus will eliminate focus lag. (Not shutter lag - that's a different thing).

    For those that really want to know about depth of field you can look here: Online Depth of Field Calculator

    For the 9900 the camera's focus is set at the hyperfocal distance. Everything from 1/2 the hyperfocal distance to infinity will be in focus.
    chiefbroski and JasW like this.
    09-07-11 05:31 PM
  22. Blaziniflo's Avatar
    In this thread, as well as 'real world' thread someone linked, are many great photos now from the 99xx. I will add a couple of my own links:

    Some basic examples:

    Picasa Web Albums - Sonic Vision - Blackberry 99...
    (I will also try to add some of my 9700 shots to compare at some point).
    Those are great pics dude. Is there any way you can list exactly all the specs (res, mode, flash on/off, distance to object, how much zoom) for pics 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7.

    On pic 7 you said you turned the res all the way down. You mean the picture size? If not, where do you change the resolution.

    Also, everyone please stop arguing about how the 9900 camera is superior in certain conditions taking pictures of my kids blah blah. If anything, the people taking picture of their kids should rely on bringing a separate camera. The BB is a business oriented phone. Taking pictures of text is just as important and the 9900 camera sucks for that. Everyone that argues but does your Canon reply to BBMs needs to drive off a cliff.

    The camera is inferior to the 9700. But it is not inferior enough for me to not buy this phone or regret getting it. Sh*t is bada##.
    09-07-11 08:07 PM
  23. Graheem's Avatar
    Those are great pics dude. Is there any way you can list exactly all the specs (res, mode, flash on/off, distance to object, how much zoom) for pics 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7.

    On pic 7 you said you turned the res all the way down. You mean the picture size? If not, where do you change the resolution.

    The camera is inferior to the 9700. But it is not inferior enough for me to not buy this phone or regret getting it. Sh*t is bada##.
    Thanks Blaziniflo ... for the Picasa Album shots you can view the EXIF info by clicking on a specific photo then click on 'full details page' in the far right of screen under Photo Information.

    Regarding resolution, yes, I do mean Image (picture) Size. It is set to Large (2560 x 1920) but when I use the Digital Zoom #7 came out 640x480. #1 & #6 were also Digital Zoomed, and came out at different resolutions. What gives? It seems Digital Zoom also crops by percentage of zoom??
    Last edited by Graheem; 09-07-11 at 08:26 PM.
    09-07-11 08:21 PM
  24. andino's Avatar
    Digital zoom is just cropping the image so it is more zoomed in. That's why when you look at camera, there is optical zoom and digital zoom. Optical zoom is when the lens actually changes its geometry to have a longer focal length.
    09-07-11 08:34 PM
  25. Graheem's Avatar
    Digital zoom is just cropping the image so it is more zoomed in. That's why when you look at camera, there is optical zoom and digital zoom. Optical zoom is when the lens actually changes its geometry to have a longer focal length.
    There's no optical zoom that I can see on the 99xx.
    09-07-11 08:35 PM
185 ... 34567 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD