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  1. cj070's Avatar
    Hi guys,

    I have a dumb question. If the news of BIS disappearing at some point in the next couple years is true, that will make a bit of a mess of things.

    So instead of relying on our carriers to run BIS, could a guy just run his own BES server and still get email and SMS and all the usual stuff that we 9900 guys know and love?

    Or is the short answer that if BIS disappears, our phones are now bricks?
    12-22-17 10:27 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I doubt BES will work either.... at that point Carrier's will probably not offer any BlackBerry support and BBOS required carrier support of the BES/BIS infrastructure.

    Yes your BBOS phone will probably be mostly a brick.... nothing last forever. I doubt many people back in 2010, expected BBOS devices to still be around today, muchless in 2020. And carriers not supporting BIS/BES isn't something new.... just that BlackBerry themselves is pulling support in a few years is new.
    12-22-17 11:55 AM
  3. alxwz's Avatar
    I've been wondering about the possibility of setting up a personal BES (Express) server myself.

    I have a general understanding of how BIS works, but haven't been able to find any good (comprehensible for an 'interested amateur') documentation how the BES service works, especially on its way between the company's BES server, via the general internet and the carriers' networks, and the users' phones. Does anybody have any hints for that?

    OTOH, to my knowledge SMS is not routed through the BB network, and should work independently of BES/BIS (see e.g. in McNish/Silcoff, "Losing the Signal", p. 4., lol).

    I find the original question (how to set up your personal BES server) fascinating, but hardly a Bold 9930/9900 topic, shouldn't this thread be moved somewhere else?
    01-01-18 06:10 PM
  4. Damian Montero's Avatar
    I think the important thing to understand is that "BES is NOT an answer to NOT paying for the carrier's Blackberry Service"

    What everyone wants to know is "how do I press a few magic numbers or run something my computer at home and just have a REGULAR internet plan but get ALL THE BLACKBERRY FUNCTIONALITY"

    the answer is that BES and BIS are NOT different and they are NOT what gives your blackberry it's "blackberry functionality"
    01-01-18 09:02 PM
  5. idssteve's Avatar
    .

    ... "BES is NOT an answer to NOT paying for the carrier's Blackberry Service"
    WHO said ANYthing about NOT PAYING for ANYthing?? !!!

    The OP is seeking a pathway around BIS EOL. I don't see ANY mention of getting service for FREE. AND, would expect such discussion to violate forum rules somehow anyway.

    BES and BIS ARE different and they are precisely what provide MUCH of "blackberry functionality"... WHAT are you talking about??
    01-02-18 07:14 AM
  6. Damian Montero's Avatar
    First: Relax.
    No one was emphasizing that someone was trying to get away with something for free. I was clarifying what we ALL want to do. We are ALL trying to get our BBOS "Classic" blackberries to get on the internet now that all the carriers are slowly stopping support for BIS.

    In fact. This post got me reading the pinned article at the top of this sub-forum and I found exactly what we are all looking for.

    Hidden in the post on "how to use your blackberry without BIS" (Which I had assumed was just a post of alternative ways to use my now crippled blackberry) was a gem of a post:
    https://forums.crackberry.com/showth...1#post11362746

    But BECAUSE of our post here that we are bickering on, I now have a blackberry that uses all it's internet services (except those provided directly by blackberry, like BBM and email) WITHOUT a blackberry plan (which I CANNOT pay for because I"m on freedomPop which gives me free data every month for $0/month but NO BIS or BES)

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by Damian Montero; 01-02-18 at 08:25 AM. Reason: removed silly comment.
    01-02-18 08:21 AM
  7. idssteve's Avatar
    First: Relax.
    No one was emphasizing that someone was trying to get away with something for free. I was clarifying what we ALL want to do. We are ALL trying to get our BBOS "Classic" blackberries to get on the internet now that all the carriers are slowly stopping support for BIS.

    In fact. This post got me reading the pinned article at the top of this sub-forum and I found exactly what we are all looking for.

    Hidden in the post on "how to use your blackberry without BIS" (Which I had assumed was just a post of alternative ways to use my now crippled blackberry) was a gem of a post:
    https://forums.crackberry.com/showth...1#post11362746

    But BECAUSE of our post here that we are bickering on, I now have a blackberry that uses all it's internet services (except those provided directly by blackberry, like BBM and email) WITHOUT a blackberry plan (which I CANNOT pay for because I"m on freedomPop which gives me free data every month for $0/month but NO BIS or BES)

    Enjoy!
    Ok, duly relaxed. Lol. You've answered & clarified. No worries. My apologies for sounding louder than intended. Replying BOLD with BOLD. Lol.

    I'm also curious about unexplored possibilities. Shuswap is the resident master of Bold without BIS... still other "possibilities" to explore, tho. Just don't want an unfounded reputation to start that we're trying to get something for free. Things get carried away that way around here. Keep us posted.
    01-02-18 11:57 AM
  8. Damian Montero's Avatar
    I read your "bold with bold" as "replying in BOLD on my BOLD"..and I thought. DAMN! that should have been their campaign message (probably was) cause I loved it!

    I think we're definitely on the same side.
    We all want blackberry to let us use their services but NOT have to use their BIS Service.
    NOT because I LOVED the idea. and I remember when the CIA told us that the BBM and the WHOLE BLACKBERRY network was the HARDEST thing EVER to crack.

    I just my blackberry to just work with a DATA plan and not have to "JUST LIVE WITH IT" since a LOT of providers seem to be making it difficult (see all the posts about MVNO and Sprint just dropping their service and you having to go to LEVEL 3 SUPPORT to have BES or BIS added)

    While I was in Colombia last year THEIR carriers ALL had blackberry INCLUDED. so it was easily just a matter of putting the SIM into my Blackberry 9900 and blamo. I had everything.

    But when I came back my "MVNO" style carrier (freedompop) doesn't even offer it and get's confused by any question about it.

    I'm just surprised blackberry hasn't just released this to everyone. But who can blame them. If they were STILL making over a $1 BILLION USD on their BIS and BES a couple of years ago WHY give it up.
    rayporsche likes this.
    01-02-18 12:12 PM
  9. idssteve's Avatar
    I read your "bold with bold" as "replying in BOLD on my BOLD"..and I thought. DAMN! that should have been their campaign message (probably was) cause I loved it!

    I think we're definitely on the same side.
    We all want blackberry to let us use their services but NOT have to use their BIS Service.
    NOT because I LOVED the idea. and I remember when the CIA told us that the BBM and the WHOLE BLACKBERRY network was the HARDEST thing EVER to crack.

    I just my blackberry to just work with a DATA plan and not have to "JUST LIVE WITH IT" since a LOT of providers seem to be making it difficult (see all the posts about MVNO and Sprint just dropping their service and you having to go to LEVEL 3 SUPPORT to have BES or BIS added)

    While I was in Colombia last year THEIR carriers ALL had blackberry INCLUDED. so it was easily just a matter of putting the SIM into my Blackberry 9900 and blamo. I had everything.

    But when I came back my "MVNO" style carrier (freedompop) doesn't even offer it and get's confused by any question about it.

    I'm just surprised blackberry hasn't just released this to everyone. But who can blame them. If they were STILL making over a $1 BILLION USD on their BIS and BES a couple of years ago WHY give it up.
    Yeah, I've never been sure how much of which flavor of BES depended on NOC. Or what resources NOC itself demanded... ??? I'm sure there's at least a light bill. Lol. Existing BIS seems to just work despite ignorance at carrier level. Shutting it down seems to require intentional action at carrier level, rather it just failing into oblivian. An impressive testament in itself to RIM's (Mikes?) accomplishment, imo. Hard to imagine that existing infrastructure couldn't be leveraged into a "super secure" product that could command a premium price...??

    NTL, some in my company are exploring some combinations of BES, hybrid OS and other "hacks" to keep our 99's useful... explorers must grow accustomed to finding 100 dead ends for each new path they find... lol.
    rayporsche and Damian Montero like this.
    01-02-18 01:02 PM
  10. Damian Montero's Avatar
    Some in my company are exploring some combinations of BES, hybrid OS and other "hacks" to keep our 99's useful... explorers must grow accustomed to finding 100 dead ends for each new path they find... lol.
    Interesting!!!! I'd love to hear what you come up with.

    Here's how I understand it.

    BIS = BES provided by servers owned by Blackberry.

    BES = a email server on YOUR location (and a VPN server) but that FIRST connects to BLACKBERRY'S SERVERS and then to your blackberry.

    This is based on several posts and more importantly working (I'm a developer not an IT guy) with the IT guys that them sharing with me that "No ports where opened to give email to our BES blackberries"

    THAT means that your BES server backends on your office (or cloud. what ever) are NOT connecting to the phones directly.

    So there's no way to "skip the middle man".

    There ARE ways to get your BBOS 7 devices to "use the browser without BIS"
    (that's easy and just a trick with a special service book)

    There are (bad in my opinion) ways to get "Email on your blackberry" But not using the regular messages app.

    and there are plenty of other things that make your Blackberries MORE than just "dumb phones with calls and texts only"

    Tell me what you guys end up doing!
    idssteve likes this.
    01-05-18 04:01 PM
  11. alxwz's Avatar
    Hard to imagine that existing infrastructure couldn't be leveraged into a "super secure" product that could command a premium price...??
    Isn't that exactly what BB is trying to do with BES12, BBM for Enterprise etc.?

    If you look at the architecture of BES12:
    https://help.blackberry.com/en/bes12...094272560.html
    01-06-18 03:44 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    For most users, who want their BBOS devices to work as they have for the past decade and a half, there is no alternative to carrier support for BIS.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-06-18 04:01 PM
  13. idssteve's Avatar
    Expecting EOL "devices to work as they have" is unrealistic. BUT, since the 9900's fabulous handset form factor is utterly unavailable elsewhere, SOME of us are willing to consider reduced software functionality alternatives. Depending.
    01-07-18 06:39 AM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Expecting EOL "devices to work as they have" is unrealistic. BUT, since the 9900's fabulous handset form factor is utterly unavailable elsewhere, SOME of us are willing to consider reduced software functionality alternatives. Depending.
    I completely understand. The form factors are very robust, with a convenient size, fantastic battery life and those awesome PKBs.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    idssteve likes this.
    01-07-18 11:19 AM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    I completely understand. The form factors are very robust, with a convenient size, fantastic battery life and those awesome PKBs.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Two of my "smart guys" have some crudely rudimental "PB bridge type" Bluetooth trackpad pointer & kb functionality from 99 onto k1. Lag is a problem but very pre-concept attempt. Nvrkno.
    Where there's a will... Lol.
    01-07-18 11:35 AM
  16. Damian Montero's Avatar
    For most users, who want their BBOS devices to work as they have for the past decade and a half, there is no alternative to carrier support for BIS.
    Please don't confuse the conversations people USE TO HAVE about PAYING BIS. No one is complaining they HAVE to use BIS. They're looking at ALTERNATIVES because of a different NEED.

    so answering with "you should be using BIS" is not addressing the point.

    Now let's get back to the real conversation.
    01-10-18 09:37 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Please don't confuse the conversations people USE TO HAVE about PAYING BIS. No one is complaining they HAVE to use BIS. They're looking at ALTERNATIVES because of a different NEED.

    so answering with "you should be using BIS" is not addressing the point.

    Now let's get back to the real conversation.
    Wasn't the point of the OP though looking for ways to create the BIS effect rather than alternative solutions.

    I think point was BIS will die and compromising is necessary for going forward.
    01-10-18 09:46 AM

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