1. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    Well at least I still have 2 good batteries, the third shows the red “x” everytime it discharged and then I need a wall charger to recover it every time.
    10-13-19 01:25 PM
  2. idssteve's Avatar
    Well at least I still have 2 good batteries, the third shows the red “x” everytime it discharged and then I need a wall charger to recover it every time. [IMG=384x512]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191013/f30c7fc64e5574032117ea1ff4fe8e64.jpg[/url]
    Well, at least you're not having to dig into the handset to change it. lol.

    Forgot how sharp your white KB looks!
    RaybanRJ likes this.
    10-13-19 01:33 PM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    If Blackberry was an American company they would have killed it off a long time ago. It’s true! It’s that defeatist attitude that I just can’t stand, for example Pontiac and Oldsmobile. The economy was slumped when they killed them off and people were all too happy screaming kill it off kill it off! (I will never forget that in the car forums) But the economy recovered and now there can never be another Pontiac Trans Am or an Oldsmobile Cutlass, ever. Once it’s dead it’s dead. People were actually screaming and cheering for the death of those companies! My cousin and I who are car nuts just still can’t believe that they are killed off.

    I think the problem is a lot of companies just look at quick short term bucks and never the long-term profits that they could see from loyal and perspective buyers that have always bought a certain type of car or a certain type of cellular device and they would stick with it forever, until they are abandoned by the guy in charge and over shareholders complaining about things.

    I think something can be said that it’s true Canadian companies aren’t so quick to throw in the towel ;-)
    lol... "In the long run, we are all dead..." JM Keynes. IOW... screw the kids... let THEM deal with it... lol.

    John Delorean foresaw GM's path to collapse decades ago. Read his book... something like: "On a clear day, you can see General Motors". He followed Estes thru multiple divisions rebuilding destruction Estes' "slash & burn" record setting short term profits left behind. Of course Delorean himself wound up self destructing in pursuit of "short term" $$ lol. so... grain of salt. Still worth comparing his predictions against history.

    THEN go read about Charles Kettering and his life's accomplishments and ponder just what his four letter response might've been to the "cheerleaders of surrender...". lol.
    RaybanRJ likes this.
    10-13-19 01:57 PM
  4. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    Well, at least you're not having to dig into the handset to change it. lol.

    Forgot how sharp your white KB looks!
    Ya I miss using it for everything like It was in 2016 before the mass elimination of app support started . I think it wasn’t until early 2017 that the apps really suffered like Facebook and Twitter because on March 31, 2017 is when I bought my iPhone 7 that I still have.
    10-13-19 01:59 PM
  5. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    lol... "In the long run, we are all dead..." JM Keynes. IOW... screw the kids... let THEM deal with it... lol.

    John Delorean foresaw GM's path to collapse decades ago. Read his book... something like: "On a clear day, you can see General Motors". He followed Estes thru multiple divisions rebuilding destruction Estes' "slash & burn" record setting short term profits left behind. Of course Delorean himself wound up self destructing in pursuit of "short term" $$ lol. so... grain of salt. Still worth comparing his predictions against history.

    THEN go read about Charles Kettering and his life's accomplishments and ponder just what his four letter response might've been to the "cheerleaders of surrender...". lol.
    I know right, I mean look at Japanese companies, they don’t just kill something off, they work on it find a way around the problem and deal with it and then fix it. Much like Toyota. It’s actually considered shame and embarrassment to let one of their companies fail that’s why I say that the Japanese government would never allow Sony to ever go bankrupt because they’ve been falling on a lot of hard times in the last number of years I read, and I read the PlayStation is the only thing keeping that company alive, but maybe now things have changed.
    10-13-19 02:02 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If Blackberry was an American company they would have killed it off a long time ago. It’s true! It’s that defeatist attitude that I just can’t stand, for example Pontiac and Oldsmobile. The economy was slumped when they killed them off and people were all too happy screaming kill it off kill it off! (I will never forget that in the car forums) But the economy recovered and now there can never be another Pontiac Trans Am or an Oldsmobile Cutlass, ever. Once it’s dead it’s dead. People were actually screaming and cheering for the death of those companies! My cousin and I who are car nuts just still can’t believe that they are killed off.

    I think the problem is a lot of companies just look at quick short term bucks and never the long-term profits that they could see from loyal and perspective buyers that have always bought a certain type of car or a certain type of cellular device and they would stick with it forever, until they are abandoned by the guy in charge and over shareholders complaining about things.

    I think something can be said that it’s true Canadian companies aren’t so quick to throw in the towel ;-)
    What ?!? Pontiac and Oldsmobile were killed off to avoid GM completely going under at different times. Oldsmobile was due in part to 9/11 recession and many of their dealers in the USA were supporting overlapping redundancy with Buick and Pontiac at time. When Pontiac demise happened it was the same thing with Buick and Saturn again. I had two auto dealers as clients that complained about the shuttering of the brands and both had forecast 5-10 years before it happened. Both only complained about how much they were cheated by GM in the valuation. The individuality was lost decades before after the 74 oil crisis and GM restructuring then.

    I do think definitely cultural difference with company expectations though. More capitalistic flair, expectations and support for companies to succeed early on, but, we’re definitely not loyal to companies, except Apple, ;-D
    10-13-19 02:13 PM
  7. idssteve's Avatar
    I know right, I mean look at Japanese companies, they don’t just kill something off, they work on it find a way around the problem and deal with it and then fix it. Much like Toyota. It’s actually considered shame and embarrassment to let one of their companies fail that’s why I say that the Japanese government would never allow Sony to ever go bankrupt because they’ve been falling on a lot of hard times in the last number of years I read, and I read the PlayStation is the only thing keeping that company alive, but maybe now things have changed.
    Last I heard (quite a while ago) Sony still commanded a positive reputation...?? Letting Apple leapfrog their Walkman innovation had to hurt?
    They need profitable products, for sure. R&D is utterly crucial to future products.

    No clue what Sony is doing but some companies actually respond to tight times by restricting R&D... go figure... lol.
    RaybanRJ likes this.
    10-13-19 02:28 PM
  8. idssteve's Avatar
    What ?!? Pontiac and Oldsmobile were killed off to avoid GM completely going under at different times. Oldsmobile was due in part to 9/11 recession and many of their dealers in the USA were supporting overlapping redundancy with Buick and Pontiac at time. When Pontiac demise happened it was the same thing with Buick and Saturn again. I had two auto dealers as clients that complained about the shuttering of the brands and both had forecast 5-10 years before it happened. Both only complained about how much they were cheated by GM in the valuation. The individuality was lost decades before after the 74 oil crisis and GM restructuring then.

    I do think definitely cultural difference with company expectations though. More capitalistic flair, expectations and support for companies to succeed early on, but, we’re definitely not loyal to companies, except Apple, ;-D
    They'd already grown to be virtual clones but still commanded popular name recognition... how expensive would it have been to rebrand clones? Lol.
    10-13-19 02:35 PM
  9. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    What ?!? Pontiac and Oldsmobile were killed off to avoid GM completely going under at different times. Oldsmobile was due in part to 9/11 recession and many of their dealers in the USA were supporting overlapping redundancy with Buick and Pontiac at time. When Pontiac demise happened it was the same thing with Buick and Saturn again. I had two auto dealers as clients that complained about the shuttering of the brands and both had forecast 5-10 years before it happened. Both only complained about how much they were cheated by GM in the valuation. The individuality was lost decades before after the 74 oil crisis and GM restructuring then.

    I do think definitely cultural difference with company expectations though. More capitalistic flair, expectations and support for companies to succeed early on, but, we’re definitely not loyal to companies, except Apple, ;-D
    For your information it cost GM billions and it backfired on them when they killed off Oldsmobile because don’t you remember what happened? All the orphaned Olds dealerships ended up suing GM because they had a product they couldn’t sell anymore because they were axed! It was like who’s going to buy a ticket on the titanic knowing the future. I completely disagree about the platform sharing because that was one way Pontiac and Olds buyers were still able to get parts after 10 years and they still can, it’s because they shared similar chassis and parts but I’ll tell you this my Buick allure looks completely different from a Pontiac Grand Prix. So I don’t buy that about distinction between the brands there was always distinction between the brands and they had loyal buyers for each division. GM got huge and successful BECAUSE they offered more. Something for everyone. GM thought Olds and Pontiac buyers would flock to Chev and Buick but They didn’t! They went to Toyota, Nissan, etc. It’s only recently that cost cutting became the standard to try to help a company but in the long run it doesn’t work it backfires and now all that market shares lost and it will never be regained. Not even getting into about how much unions bleed GM dry for thousands of dollars every vehicle they sell, or how much brand competition they have now from Korea Japan Germany etc. there are many factors at play but one thing is for sure you don’t just throw in the towel when times are tough.

    I know a lot of Americans on my Facebook and Twitter and they absolutely hate Apple. They would never buy one they stick with android devices. It’s almost like certain people don’t like big companies when they become successful and start making money it’s like jealousy or something. There is DEFINATELY A cultural difference between Canadian companies American companies and Japanese companies everyone has a different way of considering this but thing is for sure, if more people bought their own products, the company would be doing a lot better. My dad bought a 2005 Buick simply because they were offering 0% financing after 911, And millions of other people did as well. Every economy sees ups and downs but I see too many people ready to just throw in the towel over a little bump nowadays than ever before in any other time in history!
    10-13-19 02:37 PM
  10. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    They'd already grown to be virtual clones but still commanded popular name recognition... how expensive would it have been to rebrand clones? Lol.
    I see a lot of similarities between Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles and they have no problem making money, they also don’t have unions at Toyota , for starters. They platform share as well. A lot of companies do nowadays because the cost of labour and production in the US is so high if they didn’t, they would be bankrupt.
    10-13-19 02:44 PM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I see a lot of similarities between Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles and they have no problem making money, they also don’t have unions at Toyota , for starters. They platform share as well. A lot of companies do nowadays because the cost of labour and production in the US is so high if they didn’t, they would be bankrupt.
    But yet they’ve shuttered the Scion brand recently....
    10-13-19 02:48 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    For your information it cost GM billions and it backfired on them when they killed off Oldsmobile because don’t you remember what happened? All the orphaned Olds dealerships ended up suing GM because they had a product they couldn’t sell anymore because they were axed! It was like who’s going to buy a ticket on the titanic knowing the future. I completely disagree about the platform sharing because that was one way Pontiac and Olds buyers were still able to get parts after 10 years and they still can, it’s because they shared similar chassis and parts but I’ll tell you this my Buick allure looks completely different from a Pontiac Grand Prix. So I don’t buy that about distinction between the brands there was always distinction between the brands and they had loyal buyers for each division. GM got huge and successful BECAUSE they offered more. Something for everyone. GM thought Olds and Pontiac buyers would flock to Chev and Buick but They didn’t! They went to Toyota, Nissan, etc. It’s only recently that cost cutting became the standard to try to help a company but in the long run it doesn’t work it backfires and now all that market shares lost and it will never be regained. Not even getting into about how much unions bleed GM dry for thousands of dollars every vehicle they sell, or how much brand competition they have now from Korea Japan Germany etc. there are many factors at play but one thing is for sure you don’t just throw in the towel when times are tough.

    I know a lot of Americans on my Facebook and Twitter and they absolutely hate Apple. They would never buy one they stick with android devices. It’s almost like certain people don’t like big companies when they become successful and start making money it’s like jealousy or something. There is DEFINATELY A cultural difference between Canadian companies American companies and Japanese companies everyone has a different way of considering this but thing is for sure, if more people bought their own products, the company would be doing a lot better. My dad bought a 2005 Buick simply because they were offering 0% financing after 911, And millions of other people did as well. Every economy sees ups and downs but I see too many people ready to just throw in the towel over a little bump nowadays than ever before in any other time in history!
    Oldsmobile wasn’t a little bump and neither Pontiac or Saturn brands. It was simply a result of inability to differentiate the brands enough to justify the operations. Whatever the cost, it was in part to save the parent company from going under like Chrysler and losing USA ownership. It’s also happened before in the 50s when GM and Ford were fighting and forced multiple auto manufacturers bankrupt or to merge. That’s who AMC eventually came about. Even it went under eventually. Consumers buy what’s in their current best interest without knowledge of long term effects. Look at the amount of cigarettes in old movies and tv shows
    10-13-19 02:55 PM
  13. anon(10321802)'s Avatar
    I miss Saturn. The SL series was super reliable. Got me to college and work for years.
    10-13-19 03:06 PM
  14. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    Oldsmobile wasn’t a little bump and neither Pontiac or Saturn brands. It was simply a result of inability to differentiate the brands enough to justify the operations. Whatever the cost, it was in part to save the parent company from going under like Chrysler and losing USA ownership. It’s also happened before in the 50s when GM and Ford were fighting and forced multiple auto manufacturers bankrupt or to merge. That’s who AMC eventually came about. Even it went under eventually. Consumers buy what’s in their current best interest without knowledge of long term effects. Look at the amount of cigarettes in old movies and tv shows
    Repeat: GM got successful by offering more to more people. Pontiac was the excitement sports division, Olds was the affordable luxury division, Cadillac is the luxury division, Chev was the everyday persons division etc. etc. Every single division had very loyal buyers and you’re missing that point, i’m so glad you can afford to buy a new car every couple of years because many people are still driving Pontiacs and Oldsmobile’s.

    You completely missed the point about how many billions of dollars it cost GM to kill off Oldsmobile. So there is redundancy in talking to you about this because you’re not considering the history or facts.

    I’m finally blocking you because there’s just no point in talking to a broken record.
    10-13-19 03:06 PM
  15. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    I miss Saturn. The SL series was super reliable. Got me to college and work for years.
    Saturn made very good cars, I almost bought an ion 3 in 2003. It’s just like when GM had Hummer and Isuzu, they kill them off. Now look, SUVs are the standard, everyone buys them so imagine the money they could’ve made with Hummer if they didn’t kill it off. That’s why I say I’m glad BlackBerry never threw in the towel and GM never should’ve either.
    10-13-19 03:09 PM
  16. idssteve's Avatar
    Part of the genius of Sloan's creation was that by Pontiac successfully competing WITH Buick, for example, both might learn to better compete AGAINST Ford. For example. Sort of like home team offence practicing with home team defence.

    Once those divisions became virtual clones of each other, tho, they became competitors AGAINST themselves. In a "zero sum" world that would mean one, or the other, must go. I don't believe Sloan would've permitted closing Pontiac doors while Toyota outsold them. I believe a Sloan or a Kettering or a Delorean or? would've directed Pontiac R&D to better compete head to head against Toyota models... Or against BMW models or...?? It's not like no other manufacturers were selling any cars! There ARE product sales to be had! GM's divisions needed MORE freedom to compete against the other manufacturers rather than constrained to competing against themselves. Imo.

    Likewise, BB desperately needed a consumer brand to better target Gapple ... That didn't automatically mean they should've shut down BBOS when they did. There were plenty of sales to be pulled from Gapple without cannibalizing existing markets! Stranding and abandoning existing markets is a poor path to expanding markets! Especially when that existing market enjoys saf revenues! BBOS would have eventually died a natural death as the newer "Apple killer" platform matured in competition WITH BBOS... Win-win...

    Instead, they chose lose-lose... Here we are. Lol.

    of course that all assumes RIM commanded resources to challenge Gapple at ALL. They, in fact, did not.
    RaybanRJ likes this.
    10-13-19 04:27 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Repeat: GM got successful by offering more to more people. Pontiac was the excitement sports division, Olds was the affordable luxury division, Cadillac is the luxury division, Chev was the everyday persons division etc. etc. Every single division had very loyal buyers and you’re missing that point, i’m so glad you can afford to buy a new car every couple of years because many people are still driving Pontiacs and Oldsmobile’s.

    You completely missed the point about how many billions of dollars it cost GM to kill off Oldsmobile. So there is redundancy in talking to you about this because you’re not considering the history or facts.

    I’m finally blocking you because there’s just no point in talking to a broken record.
    Sorry it took me awhile to respond with actual facts. I was employed with a different company back then so I don’t have access to a bunch of the old research articles. FYI, I’m a fan of Pontiac as my current wife collectively owned three in total.

    Not sure what really upset you with my viewpoint. I’ve been a licensed broker for 28 years and individual securities were a big deal for clients back then. GM was a very big deal back then and ten years later again.

    For me, the fan of the cars I grew up with is saddened. The adult professional that manages client portfolios for a living didn’t have the luxury back then of supporting nostalgia exclusively.

    https://money.cnn.com/2000/12/12/companies/oldsmobile/
    10-13-19 05:01 PM
  18. Shuswap's Avatar
    Out of interest, is there anyone out there still using a Bold as their daily driver in 2019?

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. It does everything I need my phone to do -- which is call, text, calendar, and memos. Podcasts and occasional eBook reading are extras. No unnecessary distractions.

    Of course, if I needed ridesharing apps, maps, collaboration software, etc., it would be completely unsuitable, but I don't need any of that.
    10-13-19 05:32 PM
  19. Shuswap's Avatar
    Facebook couldn’t of cost much either for Zuckerberg for the BBOS, but he killed it. I’m still mad about that. Infrastructure was all there was built people would still be on Facebook with their blackberries if he didn’t do it. Same goes for Twitter, it worked beautifully for the 99. Considering back in 07 when Facebook really took off and we all left myspace, most people had blackberries that really put Facebook on the map and that’s what they do abandon their supporters.
    RE: Facebook: the Bold probably couldn't do enough JavaScript, cross-site tracking, etc., to make you worth surveilling
    RaybanRJ likes this.
    10-13-19 05:36 PM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    10-13-19 05:41 PM
  21. Ursus Rufus's Avatar
    Yes. It does everything I need my phone to do -- which is call, text, calendar, and memos. Podcasts and occasional eBook reading are extras. No unnecessary distractions.

    Of course, if I needed ridesharing apps, maps, collaboration software, etc., it would be completely unsuitable, but I don't need any of that.
    Hi Shuswap. Happy Thanksgiving! So if I may ask what is your method for email? By computer only?

    Totally see the point in your second paragraph here. That's pretty much myself as well.

    Very, very, occasionally, use a phone map, but for that I would bring my other phone. (Broadly speaking whilst on the subject-- still very much prefer paper maps if a map is needed.)



    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    10-13-19 10:01 PM
  22. Shuswap's Avatar
    Hey Ursus! I forward my emails to text. In the settings in the email account's web interface you can set up forwarding. For Koodo, the address is 10digitnumber@mms.mb.telus.com. You can also email back from text if you absolutely need to, but I rarely do.

    Sent from my Mi A1 using Forums v1.3.3.
    10-13-19 10:59 PM
  23. Lex24's Avatar
    at_Ursus Rufus

    1) Lot's of carriers will still activate BIS (BlackBerry Internet Service, commonly called BlackBerry Data Plan), as long as you bring your own BBOS phone compatible with their network. According to the information posted on these forums through the summer, in Canada all four big carriers (Bell, Rogers, Telus and Freedom Mobile) will do it. I verified this myself with Bell Mobility at their store in April when I needed to change my phone from a CDMA device to a GSM/UMTS device (as Bell was shutting down their CDMA network at the time).

    Once you have BIS activated you will get the native BlackBerry email service. A setup wizard will pop-up once you boot-up the phone.

    It seems that in the US it's getting a bit more complicated to get BIS activated these days.

    2) Shuswap is referring to a scenario when you can not or do not want to have BIS (it usually costs extra). In that case you need to install LogicMail app (v2.2.0.85). It is available in BlackBerry World and also directly from the developer's website. The website also has a very good user guide, with screenshots,etc.

    LogicMail works just like an email client on the computer. Unlike BIS email LogicMail does not support push notifications, so you don't know when an email arrived on your email provider's server. You can probably configure to poll the server every hour or so, but it might be a better idea to setup email forwarding using SMS gateway. This way you will get a text message notification on your BlackBerry as soon as an email arrives on the server. To get that email on the BlackBerry you need to start LogicMail app and download it manually.

    Most (if not all) mobile carriers have SMS gateway. For example, Bell Mobility has two gateways. Assuming that your mobile number is 4161234567 the email addresses are as follows:

    4161234567_at_txt_dot_bell_dot_ca

    4161234567_at_txt_dot_bellmobility_dot_ca

    To test those SMS gateways I sent messages from my phone using BIS email address (myname_at_bell_dot_blackberry_dot_net) and in both cases the notification arrived within about two seconds, just like any other text message. So there is no lag caused by the gateway itself.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Lex24; 10-14-19 at 06:03 AM.
    idssteve likes this.
    10-14-19 03:58 AM
  24. Ursus Rufus's Avatar
    Thanks Lex24 for spelling that all out. Not just for myself but for anyone happening upon this thread.

    I am having no issues really with email SMS et cetera using my 9900 on Rogers. The BIS activation was incredibly fast friendly & simple.

    As for all carriers in Canada still having BIS available, I was under the impression that Telus does not provide it.

    Corollary to that, I might add that it does not in fact cost any extra. I got my Bold in 2015 or 16 (& right away joined Crackberry forums LOL) & was a Fido customer. When I asked them to turn on BlackBerry data it was a bit of a hassle as the first two or three people I talked to weren't even sure what it was or how to do it. But it was accomplished & they assured me there was no extra charge for it.

    When I recently switched to parent company Rogers, having BB data (BIS) enabled was considerably faster & easier as the very first person I spoke to knew what it was & how to do it. He also informed me that it has been many many years since there was an extra charge for it.

    Hope this clarifies a couple of things & thanks again for your input

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Ursus Rufus; 10-14-19 at 09:46 AM.
    10-14-19 09:25 AM
  25. Ursus Rufus's Avatar
    Hey Ursus! I forward my emails to text. In the settings in the email account's web interface you can set up forwarding. For Koodo, the address is 10digitnumber@mms.mb.telus.com. You can also email back from text if you absolutely need to, but I rarely do.

    Sent from my Mi A1 using Forums v1.3.3.
    Ah yes I'm aware of this technique but had forgotten about it.

    Anyroads may I ask why you do it this way? No data on your plan?
    Just prefer it that way?

    You are with Telus I seem to recall but cannot recall what you've said about Telus & BIS.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    10-14-19 09:30 AM
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