[howarmat]

Do you not consider NFC, unmatched security, lowest failure rate, Wikitude, BBM, BES, BIS, most beautiful (99x0 IMO), or best keyboard to be leading factors?

as mentioned BIS is lacking quite a bit, hardly something to brag on RIMs behalf about. Wikitude has been available to iOS and android among other OS for a while now. BBOS is late to the party getting it.

[s219]

If Apple slapped a new case design on and called it the iPhone 5, everybody would be saying it was the best thing out there. Take the looks and name away, and it merely has the best specs/capabilities of any touchscreen smart phone right now in Oct 2011. We'll see if sales interest is driven by specs and capabilities, or looks and naming.

It's no different than the updates between the iPad 1 and 2, and the iPhone 3G and 3GS. Minor on the outside, huge on the inside. I am sure they will sell a boatload of them.

Face it, if RIM released a BB with the 4S specs, you guys would be saying it was the best thing ever.

[avt123]

they improved on but didn't develop anything new.

Lol. The iPhone 4S is a completely NEW device. What is not new about it, the design? That means nothing. Almost every single internal is new and is accompanied by a new OS and Voice Assistant that only comes with it.

the antenna seems to be a low budget bandaid

Why because it wraps around the device?

the processor was built for another device

Lmao. So every BB OS 7 device falls under this category no? The snapdragon used in it is also used in Android devices.

What's funny is that the A5 is still very efficient, and the GPU is great as well.

re-advertising a old voice app doesn't appeal to me

They totally customized it. It is all in house. It is much more than the app.

a better camera never hurts, hardly better, but also less standby non removable battery still doesn't sound great. It all sounds like quick fixes to me. This 9930 software is quality and well thought out for efficient communicating, while other companies do not seem to have that in mind and that makes BlackBerry an easy choice for me.

The hardware on the 4S is better than the 9930. iOS 5 on a iPhone 4 is already smoother than BB OS 7 on a 9930 (it is smooth on the 9930, but not like iOS, I have used the 9930 for hours and ran into many hiccups).

The fact is the 4S is a complete upgrade over the 4. Will everyone upgrade to it? No, just like some 3G users didn't upgrade to the 3GS. But the 4S is a very good upgrade for an iPhone 4 owner.

I have been communicating efficiently on iOS 5 since beta 1. It's all about the user. Encrypted iMessaging and all.

What I find funny is BB users complaining about how "minor" this upgrade is, meanwhile the first real upgrade RIM has done in YEARS was OS7 devices. The Bolds were basically rocking the same hardware with minor upgrades since the 9000. I owned 2 of them.

[Frosty_Power]

If Apple slapped a new case design on and called it the iPhone 5, everybody would be saying it was the best thing out there. Take the looks and name away, and it merely has the best specs/capabilities of any touchscreen smart phone right now in Oct 2011. We'll see if sales interest is driven by specs and capabilities, or looks and naming.

It's no different than the updates between the iPad 1 and 2, and the iPhone 3G and 3GS. Minor on the outside, huge on the inside. I am sure they will sell a boatload of them.

Face it, if RIM released a BB with the 4S specs, you guys would be saying it was the best thing ever.

Apple has always been about looks and design, never about specs. People wanted a new design, they are not complaining about the specs. Do you hear people complain about the processor and 8meg camera? No, they wanted a new form factor. They were wishing for a bigger screen, led notification, etc. etc. No one is complaining about the specs, they wanted more of an upgrade(or change) since it's been over 16 months since the iP4 was launched and could be possibly another year with this same shell. Most iPhone users don't care about specs(I'm not talking about the ones on this site), they care about ease of use and design.

[Frosty_Power]

The fact is the 4S is a complete upgrade over the 4. Will everyone upgrade to it? No, just like some 3G users didn't upgrade to the 3GS. But the 4S is a very good upgrade for an iPhone 4 owner.

Strongly disagree with this comment. It may be a good upgrade from a iP3, but from a 4, I do not see any value in it(have you seen the pricing on the 64GB) and to not have Siri available to current iP4 owners is a slap in the face, buy a iP4S or no Siri for you. Come on, what a joke.

[MissJennell#IM]

This is a great analogy!! I happen to completely agree with you!

It is a terrible analogy.

hardware isnt everything to everyone. To me its about the intuitive interface and the way one gets through the taks at hand. nothing even competes with BB on this level IMO. Its kinda like cars. Apple and Android are the big loaded SUV's with 500 hp. you can load it up with crap and it uses a lot of power just to do an okay straight line speed, but a well engineered BMW coupe with only 350 hp will actually have better handling, responsiveness, acceleration, interior and build quality.
I always go for that handling over excessive horsepower. Handling is what gets me through my tasks and around the track quickest.

This is a terrible analogy. For me who has 3 kids whom are all in sports the SUV is the better choice. It can do and fit everything I need. Whereas the BMW coupe couldn't fit and do everything I need. You choose a vehicle kind of like a cell phone. You choose the specs that fit your needs and choose the one that does and fits your needs.

[pri79269]

Apple has always been about looks and design, never about specs. People wanted a new design, they are not complaining about the specs. Do you hear people complain about the processor and 8meg camera? No, they wanted a new form factor. They were wishing for a bigger screen, led notification, etc. etc. No one is complaining about the specs, they wanted more of an upgrade(or change) since it's been over 16 months since the iP4 was launched and could be possibly another year with this same shell. Most iPhone users don't care about specs(I'm not talking about the ones on this site), they care about ease of use and design.

Most iPhone users knew a 4S would come before a 5 just like the 3GS came before the 4. The design changes will come with the 5 in a year, right on schedule. I beg to differ that we don't care about specs. I love the look of my phone, that's why I got it. I'd be perfectly content if the look never changed. If what's under the hood that matters. Besides, 99.9% of users have it wrapped in a case anyway.

[Caymancroc]

Strongly disagree with this comment. It may be a good upgrade from a iP3, but from a 4, I do not see any value in it(have you seen the pricing on the 64GB) and to not have Siri available to current iP4 owners is a slap in the face, buy a iP4S or no Siri for you. Come on, what a joke.

Really? You don't see any value in iP4? Well, you must feel really let down by RIM then. Their product upgrades are minor compared to the new iPhone.

[sir.dangerfield]

It is a terrible analogy.



This is a terrible analogy. For me who has 3 kids whom are all in sports the SUV is the better choice. It can do and fit everything I need. Whereas the BMW coupe couldn't fit and do everything I need. You choose a vehicle kind of like a cell phone. You choose the specs that fit your needs and choose the one that does and fits your needs.

you have the needs of a big, slow, SUV. You dont get to have the sporty, well handling, fuel efficient machine anymore. just because you have to sacrifice and get a less enjoyable ride doesn't mean now your ride is the best for everyone.
In this case I dont need a big honkin device with excessive features that are all cheesier versions of real devices. I need a purpose built machine that can get from point A-B in the fastest and most reliable way. I feel that BB's are built from the ground up for efficiency and thats what I expect in my communication device.

[MissJennell#IM]

you have the needs of a big, slow, SUV. You dont get to have the sporty, well handling, fuel efficient machine anymore. just because you have to sacrifice and get a less enjoyable ride doesn't mean now your ride is the best for everyone.
In this case I dont need a big honkin device with excessive features that are all cheesier versions of real devices. I need a purpose built machine that can get from point A-B in the fastest and most reliable way. I feel that BB's are built from the ground up for efficiency and thats what I expect in my communication device.

Well for one, you must have never driven an SUV. They are definitely not slow. And I also think you missed when I said that YOU NEED TO GET WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. There I said it in caps so you can't miss it. You're welcome.

[sir.dangerfield]

Well for one, you must have never driven an SUV. They are definitely not slow. And I also think you missed when I said that YOU NEED TO GET WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. There I said it in caps so you can't miss it. You're welcome.

Im not going to turn this into car thing but a SUV will get a slow track time compared to a coupe with the same or even less HP (GTR will smoke a Cayenne Turbo and same price). secondly what you put in caps doesn't show my analogy as being wrong and thats what you were criticizing. I appreciate your rude responses though, have a nice day.

[MissJennell#IM]

Im not going to turn this into car thing but a SUV will get a slow track time compared to a coupe with the same or even less HP (GTR will smoke a Cayenne Turbo and same price). secondly what you put in caps doesn't show my analogy as being wrong and thats what you were criticizing. I appreciate your rude responses though, have a nice day.

What I put in caps has to do with your response to what I had said. My point is that if the car/phone doesn't do what you need then what is the point of it being faster? Is it just to brag that your phone is faster? That's definitely ridiculous. So my point stands. Your analogy is ridiculous. People arguing over what phone is better is just plain ignorance. What is better for one person is not better for another. I have had many many many blackberries, androids, windows phones, palms, and apple phones. Each work just fine, for different reasons and different users. Bashing type of phone is stupid and shows what little brain power people use. So again I will say (and yes in caps because you've missed it again) WHAT WORKS FOR ONE PERSON MIGHT NOT WORK FOR ANOTHER. Again, you are welcome.

[sir.dangerfield]

Im very happy to own my 9930, and I feel that the new Iphone 4S does not bring anything new that makes me want more from my phone.
to be sensitive to anyone who seems to be in the wrong place: My 9930 is the best phone in the world! (FOR ME)

TO THE MODERATOR: I wouldn't mind this thread being closed, its become a buzz kill.

[ADGrant]

Im not going to turn this into car thing but a SUV will get a slow track time compared to a coupe with the same or even less HP (GTR will smoke a Cayenne Turbo and same price). secondly what you put in caps doesn't show my analogy as being wrong and thats what you were criticizing. I appreciate your rude responses though, have a nice day.

How many people buy their cars based on track times?

[sir.dangerfield]

How many people buy their cars based on track times?

unfortunately, not many people look for what they see as the best, but go for what the commercials and friends tell them are the best. Im one of those weird people who try to find the best thats offered for what I'm trying to do.

[Frosty_Power]

Really? You don't see any value in iP4? Well, you must feel really let down by RIM then. Their product upgrades are minor compared to the new iPhone.

Re-read my post please. I didn't say there was no value in an ip4, I said there was not much value in upgrading to an ip4s, if you just got an ip4(which is already a great device). This is my opinion, and I do own an ip4 as well as several others.

[Exiled Bulldawg]

I can appreciate your point of view as you might not have lived with a 99xx yet. The screen size and touch response, the outstanding keyboard, build quality, ergonomics, the quickness getting through the phone, browsing experience, and memory improvement is all a huge deal for me. All of those improvements plus the OS I already thought was the best made the 9930 the best phone on the market for me. I didn't expect the next Iphone to convert me, but I feared new innovation that could make the 99xx obsolete and the 4S did no such thing. It changes things in the way that Apple no longer has a 15 month old phone to use as an excuse. Everyone's cards are on the table and I think BlackBerry has the best hand.

So.... are you going to feel the same way next year when your phone won't run QNX? The iPhone 4 from 16 months ago is running iOS 5.... RIM has already said the 99XX isn't upgradeable to QNX.

[mysticmeg]

Yes I felt like hahah yess my blackberry bold 9900 is still faster and even more reliable for battery life

[saalnaz]

unfortunately, not many people look for what they see as the best, but go for what the commercials and friends tell them are the best. Im one of those weird people who try to find the best thats offered for what I'm trying to do.

thats called using your brains...and not being a sheep like many.....

[avt123]

Strongly disagree with this comment. It may be a good upgrade from a iP3, but from a 4, I do not see any value in it(have you seen the pricing on the 64GB) and to not have Siri available to current iP4 owners is a slap in the face, buy a iP4S or no Siri for you. Come on, what a joke.

I am sorry you feel this way. It is more powerful than the iPhone 4, more efficient, has better graphics processing and better battery life. I would definitely call it an upgrade.

If you feel the 64GB is too expensive, oh well. There is always the 32GB and 16GB that will have the same pricing.

[pri79269]

Well for one, you must have never driven an SUV. They are definitely not slow. And I also think you missed when I said that YOU NEED TO GET WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. There I said it in caps so you can't miss it. You're welcome.

I agree. It's all about what works for you. My SRX V8 northstar has hauled many of kids to football practice and left plenty of cute little sports cars at the red light lol

[ADGrant]

unfortunately, not many people look for what they see as the best, but go for what the commercials and friends tell them are the best. Im one of those weird people who try to find the best thats offered for what I'm trying to do.

Which is race them round a track I assume.

Most people buying SUVs are essentially using them as family station wagons not to race them round the track.

Personally for transporting children I found my convertible completely useless largely because a car seat would not fit. The SUV I replaced it with OTOH is perfect for job. Its also faster than the convertible I replaced. The high ground clearence does not help handling but it does make loading children into car seats very easy and there is always active damping.

[Frosty_Power]

I am sorry you feel this way. It is more powerful than the iPhone 4, more efficient, has better graphics processing and better battery life. I would definitely call it an upgrade.

If you feel the 64GB is too expensive, oh well. There is always the 32GB and 16GB that will have the same pricing.

LOL. AGAIN, I didn't say it wasn't an upgrade. It is an upgrade. The upgraded hardware is very good. I mentioned, there wasn't much value for existing iP4 owners to pay up to get an iP4S, considering they will be running iOS5 anyways. This is what I meant. So you are saying anyone who recently purchased an iP4 should go out and buy an iP4S because there ip4 is not capable of doing what they need? You see value in them spending $700 or $800 to upgrade to the ip4S since they will already be on contract just because the S is "more efficient and has better graphics and better battery life"? That was my point. It is an upgrade and I have already said that. I just don't see the value for existing iP4 owners, iP3, yes definitely value, IMO. The heavy users may see value but the average iP4 owner will not. The S will still sell millions, and I never said that the device was terrible and not to buy it. The iP4 is still a great device, the S, as you mentioned, is better.

[ichat]

Whoa don't wanna spam but this thread is big!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[avt123]

LOL. AGAIN, I didn't say it wasn't an upgrade. It is an upgrade. The upgraded hardware is very good. I mentioned, there wasn't much value for existing iP4 owners to pay up to get an iP4S, considering they will be running iOS5 anyways. This is what I meant. So you are saying anyone who recently purchased an iP4 should go out and buy an iP4S because there ip4 is not capable of doing what they need? You see value in them spending $700 or $800 to upgrade to the ip4S since they will already be on contract just because the S is "more efficient and has better graphics and better battery life"? That was my point. It is an upgrade and I have already said that. I just don't see the value for existing iP4 owners, iP3, yes definitely value, IMO. The heavy users may see value but the average iP4 owner will not. The S will still sell millions, and I never said that the device was terrible and not to buy it. The iP4 is still a great device, the S, as you mentioned, is better.

I didn't say that at all. Anyone who just upgraded should not even be looking at these devices right now (unless they are a smartphone addict or have extra money to throw around). All I said was that this is still a great upgrade, even for iPhone 4 owners. Overall better battery life while being more powerful and efficient is a great upgrade. Especially since software is moving towards dual core devices. This will allow the 4S to last much longer. I do expect the 4 to last a while as well since older iPhones are still being upgraded, but dual core is an entirely different platform. It is the future of iOS. iOS 5 already runs smooth as butter on the iPhone 4, I have been using it since beta 1. I know the iPhone 4 is a great device. It hasn't let me down once.

Also, I never said you said it wasn't an upgrade. All I said was that I am sorry you do not feel it is much of an upgrade for iPhone 4 users.