12-06-09 01:31 PM
46 12
tools
  1. BIGGY's Avatar
    I've read a few threads and spoken with a couple people who asked me how my Tour is or if they should wait for the new one that they hear is coming out.

    It doesn't matter, it's all the same. Tour is a Curve is a Bold, blah blah blah, boring same old same old. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy using my Tour. But can we stop releasing a new BB every other day so that maybe developers can write some apps without the app being outdated before it's out of QA?

    And all over the place the same boring comparisons! This battery vs that one. It's the same boring phone with that same GUI as always. Instead of calling it 'Tour 2', what the name should be is 'The Tour That Shoulda Been Released In The First Place'. And the sad part is that you have people who have a perfectly good original Tour that are in this difficult struggle as to upgrading or not.

    I'm sorry but while from a business perspective my phone is great...it's about as exciting as plastic covered couches at grandmas place. And the threads here...just about all of them...are the same boring chatter. Because deep down inside we all know that it's the same boring phone being released in a slightly different flavor.
    11-12-09 12:00 PM
  2. robertrulez's Avatar
    I completely agree, I understand why people likeblackberries though, it just works, usualyy they dont have issues, they get incredible battery life, sound quality with the speaker is good as well, the phone aspect just works. Plus it has the app world which is decent, but yes i totally agree, blackberries are boring, they arent exciting like iphones, android, and even the touch hd 2. Ive been waiting for the essex but Ive decided that ill get the hd 2 if it comes to sprint or i may even wait out for the palm pre 2.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-12-09 02:17 PM
  3. ilhe1s's Avatar
    I think it's funny when people are like I want my phone to be fun. I want mine to be a tool. If I wanted a toy I'd get a Nintendo DSi, PSP Go, Etc...

    I completely agree, I understand why people likeblackberries though, it just works, usualyy they dont have issues, they get incredible battery life, sound quality with the speaker is good as well, the phone aspect just works. Plus it has the app world which is decent, but yes i totally agree, blackberries are boring, they arent exciting like iphones, android, and even the touch hd 2. Ive been waiting for the essex but Ive decided that ill get the hd 2 if it comes to sprint or i may even wait out for the palm pre 2.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-12-09 03:10 PM
  4. robertrulez's Avatar
    I think it's funny when people are like I want my phone to be fun. I want mine to be a tool. If I wanted a toy I'd get a Nintendo DSi, PSP Go, Etc...
    i like how some people are so blind to see that the iphone is a business tool and a gaming tool

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-12-09 03:20 PM
  5. MikEy dEe729's Avatar
    i like how some people are so blind to see that the iphone is a business tool and a gaming tool

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    agreed. the iphone is def the phone to get if you wanna play games and stuff
    11-12-09 04:08 PM
  6. bb2iphone's Avatar
    I have seen this argument posted over and over with slightly different faces and I think it just comes down to a narrow subgroup of undecided or uncertain RIM users whose feelings of novelty quickly wear off and/or are increasingly demanding users looking for hardware and/or software changes and/or are looking for the perfect all-in-one-device. I'm sorry but RIM won't be that company that caters to your expectations because RIM doesn't need to. They still own majority market share of smartphone devices and will continue to do so with their device offerings. Even the iphone or android outsells them one day, 2nd or 3rd place doesn't mean failure for RIM.

    It's Apple and Google Android (possibly Windows Mobile) that are competing for this narrow demographic, the ones who want to be able to do everything and anything with their phone. There's no reason to stay loyal to RIM or blackberries if you want that. Push email is achievable on other platforms.
    11-12-09 04:43 PM
  7. robertrulez's Avatar
    I have seen this argument posted over and over with slightly different faces and I think it just comes down to a narrow subgroup of undecided or uncertain RIM users whose feelings of novelty quickly wear off and/or are increasingly demanding users looking for hardware and/or software changes and/or are looking for the perfect all-in-one-device. I'm sorry but RIM won't be that company that caters to your expectations because RIM doesn't need to. They still own majority market share of smartphone devices and will continue to do so with their device offerings. Even the iphone or android outsells them one day, 2nd or 3rd place doesn't mean failure for RIM.

    It's Apple and Google Android (possibly Windows Mobile) that are competing for this narrow demographic, the ones who want to be able to do everything and anything with their phone. There's no reason to stay loyal to RIM or blackberries if you want that. Push email is achievable on other platforms.
    in today's market, people care about flash and functionality

    unfortunately RIM doesnt provide that, in the past month I know 6 people who switched to the dark side (apple)

    RIM's problem is that their hardware and software is severely lacking

    their processors are outdated, the screens are getting smaller when they're supposed to be getting bigger(bold to bold 2), their app market is severely limited by the OS which needs some major renovation

    the storm is a good try though

    too bad it isnt available for sprint though
    11-12-09 05:54 PM
  8. BIGGY's Avatar
    I have seen this argument posted over and over with slightly different faces and I think it just comes down to a narrow subgroup of undecided or uncertain RIM users whose feelings of novelty quickly wear off and/or are increasingly demanding users looking for hardware and/or software changes and/or are looking for the perfect all-in-one-device. I'm sorry but RIM won't be that company that caters to your expectations because RIM doesn't need to. They still own majority market share of smartphone devices and will continue to do so with their device offerings. Even the iphone or android outsells them one day, 2nd or 3rd place doesn't mean failure for RIM.

    It's Apple and Google Android (possibly Windows Mobile) that are competing for this narrow demographic, the ones who want to be able to do everything and anything with their phone. There's no reason to stay loyal to RIM or blackberries if you want that. Push email is achievable on other platforms.
    Oh please...it's BS like this which is the downfall of any major company. This is the thought logic which anyone who goes to get their MBA or business related degree knows full well to avoid.

    What a company was, how awesome they were, and how much of the market they still might control is irrelevant. Because you need to stay on top, not just get there. RIM is taking a carrot, dangling it in front of your face...then taking that carrot out of sight and bringing it right back in front of your face again and calling it something different.

    And I'm sorry, but 2nd or 3rd place is failure. In the business world you strive to be number one. This isn't feel-good tee-ball or pee-wee football where just showing up to play the game deserves a pat on the back and a trophy for spirit (that's BS too btw).

    The thing is that you don't need to defend RIM...they do need to cater to yours, mine, and everyone else's demands. Without consumers (B2B or B2C), the company is nothing. At one point in time Motorola was the superbly clear leader in the analog phone market. And a guy like you argued the same tired argument "They're number 1! Why do they need to adapt to the market!?" Well because today they are in a financial mess and until recently could barely make a phone of any quality. The Motorola of the 90's is gone...gone because during the best days they didn't plan to make them better. They hung on to the pipe dream which is your exact argument which lead to their failure.
    11-12-09 06:24 PM
  9. BIGGY's Avatar
    And another thing. You don't even need to believe my words to see that their business model needs changing. Go look through some original Curve threads. Well built device, solid steps forward, all is well. Now let's go to something like the Tour forum. See just how thrilled people are with a product with the friggen BATTERY COVER can't even stay on straight!!! Are you kidding me? Aside from the massive return of busted trackballs too of course.

    And you're going to sit there and say something in defense of RIM? Please tell me that you're not a manager somewhere because I need to make sure that I never get a job at that company since layoffs are imminent. Oooohhh, Tour 2 is going to have WIFI...because that's a totally new idea that's never been out there before, right? Wrong...it's a given that it should now be standard on all new non-compact Blackberries. Period and end of story. Instead they let you chew that deluxe slice of pizza, yank it out of your mouth, hand you a slice of plain boring cheese pizza, then expect you to be happy when you get another slice of the deluxe later. Way to innovate RIM...way to take 2 steps forward AND 2 steps back at the same time.
    11-12-09 06:31 PM
  10. ilhe1s's Avatar
    The sad fact is that all in all for one to be the other and vice verse there has to be sacrifice.

    i like how some people are so blind to see that the iphone is a business tool and a gaming tool

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-12-09 07:01 PM
  11. bb2iphone's Avatar
    BIGGY, angry consumerist rants may sound like they make sense, but they're not always indicative of the reality. I'm not defending RIM defective manufacturing and design flaws. I am also no spokesmen for RIM nor am I a fanboi. In fact I'm sporting an android device now, until RIM releases a Blackberry with an ARM Cortex processor or similar. I love smartphones, all of them, and I move between handsets very easily so I don't really appreciate the implications you are making.

    Also if it were the case that capitalist marketing principles meant you had to be number one or your fail, then we would've seen Nokia go down under and Palm. Luckily the former is still selling devices like hot cakes in Europe and the latter just rebounded with WebOS.

    You misunderstand when I say cater to the consumer's needs. I'm speaking about catering to the narrow consumer demographic who seems to want a little of what everyone else is having. There's nothing fantastic about RIM OS, but it's stable, gets the job done and not difficult to learn; it also does corporate security and push email extremely well. The aforementioned are three features most people are looking for not to say that software design isn't also an important feature, because it is; and, I don't see RIM moving particularly slower than their competitors in this department. The iphone software design is pretty crappy too. All you get is icons on a screen.

    Additionally, I do some daytime trading and have come across RIMM's performance in the stock trades and they like any other company suffered a little downfall earlier this year, but rebounded. So unless the numbers are lying I don't see any major cause of concern of their demise. As the iphone expands into the market and we see new android, windows mobile and webos devices I believe RIM will respond accordingly with their own respective updates and innovations.

    Finally, yes, the Tour 2 should have been perhaps been released instead of the first Tour, but keep in mind the RIM has 16 new devices set for 2010, a browser webkit in the works, near future flash support, opengl es support, and devices with both touch screen and front facing keyboards. This is coming out in the very near future, so out of fairness to RIM, it's not like they're not doing anything. You may not be hearing about all this excitement because it's still too early and any company doesn't want it's preliminary plans leaked to the public so as not to give the competition an edge.
    Last edited by saqer; 11-12-09 at 07:41 PM.
    11-12-09 07:36 PM
  12. robertrulez's Avatar
    BIGGY, angry consumerist rants may sound like they make sense, but they're not always indicative of the reality. I'm not defending RIM defective manufacturing and design flaws. I am also no spokesmen for RIM nor am I a fanboi. In fact I'm sporting an android device now, until RIM releases a Blackberry with an ARM Cortex processor or similar. I love smartphones, all of them, and I move between handsets very easily so I don't really appreciate the implications you are making.

    Also if it were the case that capitalist marketing principles meant you had to be number one or your fail, then we would've seen Nokia go down under and Palm. Luckily the former is still selling devices like hot cakes in Europe and the latter just rebounded with WebOS.

    You misunderstand when I say cater to the consumer's needs. I'm speaking about catering to the narrow consumer demographic who seems to want a little of what everyone else is having. There's nothing fantastic about RIM OS, but it's stable, gets the job done and not difficult to learn; it also does corporate security and push email extremely well. The aforementioned are three features most people are looking for not to say that software design is also an important feature, because it is; and, I don't see RIM moving particularly slower than their competitors in this department. The iphone software design is pretty crappy too. All you get is icons on a screen.

    Additionally, I do some daytime trading and have come across RIMM's performance in the stock trades and they like any other company suffered a little downfall earlier this year, but rebounded. So unless the numbers are lying I don't see any major cause of concern of their demise. As the iphone expands into the market and we see new android, windows mobile and webos devices I believe RIM will respond accordingly with their own respective updates and innovations.
    it's really taking to long though...... the only real reason im looking at blackberries at the moment is because of the $10 SERO plan buy up

    the one thing that irks me is the fact that cdma blackberries dont automatically split sms's above 160 characters, im gonna miss that from my winmo phone
    11-12-09 07:40 PM
  13. bb2iphone's Avatar
    it's really taking to long though...... the only real reason im looking at blackberries at the moment is because of the $10 SERO plan buy up

    the one thing that irks me is the fact that cdma blackberries dont automatically split sms's above 160 characters, im gonna miss that from my winmo phone
    Maybe it's taking too long, but we know what happens with rushed devices or updates. They end up screwy.

    I hated that with my Sprint Curve too! There are a couple of low cost apps that resolve that issue - my choice being Beyond160. BTW, you coming from Windows Mobile like I did at some point, you should know how crappy the same old WinCE kernel is. Nothing about it has improved. If it weren't for HTC adding their own GUI, WinMo would've been deep down under. Nevertheless, it has survived and maybe it's because microsoft can afford to lose money on it temporarily, but they're not number one currently, and they're not quitting. Windows Mobile is coming back with a complete makeover with version 7, which I venture will make for some interesting competition - but look how long that has taken to come out and how many delays there have been.
    Last edited by saqer; 11-12-09 at 07:57 PM.
    11-12-09 07:46 PM
  14. jaynemanning's Avatar
    I have had blackberries for 3 years...love my Curve and am on my 2nd one...I decided to upgrade to the Tour last week..got it, spent a better part of 24 hrs getting my apps, contacts, etc set all up. On Friday, I was talking on the Tour and it went dead..I was surprised and didn"t think much of it..Saturday, I turned it on, had a 5 minute phone call, sent 1 email..and it was dead by 4:00...that was a deal breaker...I got my trusty curve out, re-actibated it..Packed up the Tour and sending it back...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-15-09 06:20 PM
  15. eve6er69's Avatar
    I have had my berry for about 2 years and it makes phone calls, sends emails, instant messages etc...... The GUI dosent mean much if the device can't do what you want it to. As for me my berry does everything I want it to do and more. If it didn't then I would find another PDA that does. I have had windows mobile and palm os and I can say I will never go back to them. I have found my 8330 to be a reliable workhorse and that's all I ask.
    Leave the games and flash for toys. I bought this for buisness and social media and it does all ofthe above.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-16-09 12:09 AM
  16. m_jameson1's Avatar
    Oh yeah!? Well I want an essex!

    And why is your boring consumer rant in this thread anyway? Isnt this supposed to be somewhere else? If you dont want to talk about Blackberries then go visit the iphone thread.

    I see this alot also.....misplacement of threads in the wrong section of the forum! I find that just like you say.......

    And the threads here...just about all of them...are the same boring chatter.
    ........BORING!

    /end rant
    11-16-09 05:15 PM
  17. BIGGY's Avatar
    Oh yeah!? Well I want an essex!

    And why is your boring consumer rant in this thread anyway? Isnt this supposed to be somewhere else? If you dont want to talk about Blackberries then go visit the iphone thread.

    I see this alot also.....misplacement of threads in the wrong section of the forum! I find that just like you say.......



    ........BORING!

    /end rant
    Hey you can find my chatter boring, perfectly fine. What's odd is the people who think like you who side with a corporation instead of pushing back on a company to improve. Attacking me is easy...saying to a company your product is nice but now it's time to improve seems to be the way to go. We can sit here and praise RIM all night and all day and people can upgrade from the Tour to the Tour 2 and live happily ever after. Or we can look at the bigger picture and all be in agreement that the Tour was rushed to the market possibly? Perhaps WiFi should have been included since it's not new to to the Blackberry family. I mean can you at all agree with that?

    Blackberries are not bad devices at all. They are indeed great for business and the accepted standard. But that doesn't mean that there's no room for critique? The problem is with RIM...they play the consumer. Look at how many people are sitting and pondering if they should upgrade to the Tour 2. Is this acceptable to you? What are we saying as consumers if nothing is said about how an inferior quality product was rushed to market? Does anyone not think that this was a plan designed to generate more revenue in terms of releasing a phone, then releasing the identical phone but with WiFi a year later? How is that at all good for the consumer when the Tour 2 could have just released in the first place!? My rant might be boring, but I'd love to know the honest response to those questions.
    11-16-09 05:34 PM
  18. bb2iphone's Avatar
    Look at how many people are sitting and pondering if they should upgrade to the Tour 2. Is this acceptable to you?
    In the grand scheme of things I'm willing to bet a lot of money that actually very few blackberries owners are even thinking about the Tour 2 or have even learned about it. What percentage of blackberry users do you think actually register, read, and become avid users on forums such as this one?
    11-16-09 05:39 PM
  19. BIGGY's Avatar
    In the grand scheme of things I'm willing to bet a lot of money that actually very few blackberries owners are even thinking about the Tour 2 or have even learned about it. What percentage of blackberry users do you think actually register, read, and become avid users on forums such as this one?
    Agreed...the number is probably much smaller than it appears when reading the forums. But it should be zero or close to it. Those of us who are Tour users should have a phone with functioning trackballs, normal battery covers, and wifi from the get-go. This isn't asking for much. I would understand if this was the first phone of it's kind. The first Blackberry ever? Understandable. First Iphone ever? Understandable. But this isn't the first phone or even close to it that they have released.
    11-16-09 05:54 PM
  20. Dsmithjr's Avatar
    For what it's worth, I think the problem with RIM is that they don't really think they have a problem at all. If you read some of the comments made by Balsillie out in San Francisco, you'll see that the guy is clearly living in RIM's glorious past. He still seems to think they're on the cutting edge, and I'm not sure if he realizes how much of a threat his company is facing from competitors such as Apple and Google.

    There's is one clear way to know what a majority of people think about RIM's future - it's stock price. Stock prices are based on a company's future, not their past. RIM's stock has just been punished over the last 24 months down over 45%. That performance is on par with with companies such as Motorola, and only marginally better then Nokia. Yes, some of that is due to financial pressures brought about by the recession, but it also shows a real lack of confidence in RIM's ability to grow moving forward.

    The dynamics of the company have changed. RIM might want to consider replacing its upper management to bring in some new and fresh ideas. Romanticizing over your past does nothing for your future.
    Last edited by Dsmithjr; 11-16-09 at 06:02 PM.
    11-16-09 06:00 PM
  21. m_jameson1's Avatar
    Hey you can find my chatter boring, perfectly fine. What's odd is the people who think like you who side with a corporation instead of pushing back on a company to improve. Attacking me is easy...saying to a company your product is nice but now it's time to improve seems to be the way to go. We can sit here and praise RIM all night and all day and people can upgrade from the Tour to the Tour 2 and live happily ever after. Or we can look at the bigger picture and all be in agreement that the Tour was rushed to the market possibly? Perhaps WiFi should have been included since it's not new to to the Blackberry family. I mean can you at all agree with that?

    Blackberries are not bad devices at all. They are indeed great for business and the accepted standard. But that doesn't mean that there's no room for critique? The problem is with RIM...they play the consumer. Look at how many people are sitting and pondering if they should upgrade to the Tour 2. Is this acceptable to you? What are we saying as consumers if nothing is said about how an inferior quality product was rushed to market? Does anyone not think that this was a plan designed to generate more revenue in terms of releasing a phone, then releasing the identical phone but with WiFi a year later? How is that at all good for the consumer when the Tour 2 could have just released in the first place!? My rant might be boring, but I'd love to know the honest response to those questions.
    You are allowed to have your own view.......but you could state that view in another thread.

    As far as your opinion about "well it should have had wifi from the start, well, oops! It didnt, but now guess what , it will!

    why doesnt the 8330 have wifi but the 8900 does? Still a curve

    Why did my laptop have only a 180 gb hard drive and 4 gigs of ram when the same laptop 6 months later has 250 and 6? Technology evolves!

    yeah maybe they should have "waited" but you know what? I bet every Alltel coustomer (I am in ND we still have Alltel) LOVED the Tour because all we had is the Curve and Pearl, and we wont be getting the essex!

    Look at it this way, to alot of people the Tour was an upgrade. Not everyone needs wifi, and some people have no idea what a track pad even is. People like you and I can see these things, and someone always wants the latest and greatest. RIM isnt there to make you and I happy. They are a business no matter how you look at it, and their business is doing very well for itself!

    I love my Blackberry so RIM, do what you do....I will take some flash when you get around for it. My old little 8330 and I will be waiting.
    11-16-09 06:04 PM
  22. m_jameson1's Avatar
    First Iphone ever? Understandable.

    The Iphone didnt even have 3g from the starting gate! Booo on Apple!

    That took 1 year to add! How do you think the originial Iphone users felt about that!? "I have an Ipod touch with a phone......?"
    11-16-09 06:10 PM
  23. BIGGY's Avatar
    You are allowed to have your own view.......but you could state that view in another thread.

    As far as your opinion about "well it should have had wifi from the start, well, oops! It didnt, but now guess what , it will!

    why doesnt the 8330 have wifi but the 8900 does? Still a curve

    Why did my laptop have only a 180 gb hard drive and 4 gigs of ram when the same laptop 6 months later has 250 and 6? Technology evolves!

    yeah maybe they should have "waited" but you know what? I bet every Alltel coustomer (I am in ND we still have Alltel) LOVED the Tour because all we had is the Curve and Pearl, and we wont be getting the essex!

    Look at it this way, to alot of people the Tour was an upgrade. Not everyone needs wifi, and some people have no idea what a track pad even is. People like you and I can see these things, and someone always wants the latest and greatest. RIM isnt there to make you and I happy. They are a business no matter how you look at it, and their business is doing very well for itself!

    I love my Blackberry so RIM, do what you do....I will take some flash when you get around for it. My old little 8330 and I will be waiting.
    C'mon man, don't be such a mindless consumer drone. RIM is there to make you and I happy. The purpose of a business, any business is to provide GOODS and/or SERVICES to consumers or other businesses in exchange for profit. Business 101. So yes, RIM IS there to make you and I happy. Not in terms of you falling in love with your phone, but in a business sense.

    Your laptop example doesn't work. To be more fair, imagine that a laptop comes out...first of its kind...then a year later the laptop gets Upgrade X. Fantastic! Now...the third generation of the same laptop comes out, and it LACKS Upgrade X!! Isn't that like a partial step backwards? And then again...a year later the newer version of that laptop is released with Upgrade X. The company has already released previous versions with Upgrade X and made a choice NOT to include it in a future release.

    Just as RIM did with Wifi. See the 8300 from Tmobile has had Wifi for quite some time now. Then when the Tour came out, they CHOSE to leave out that feature. They CHOSE to leave it out to have a 'new' phone to release a year later. There's no actual newness or innovation or new ideas here. All they did was shuffle it around. I mean I'm really trying to explain it as slowly and clearly to you as possible...it's gotta click, yes?
    11-16-09 06:20 PM
  24. BIGGY's Avatar
    The Iphone didnt even have 3g from the starting gate! Booo on Apple!

    That took 1 year to add! How do you think the originial Iphone users felt about that!? "I have an Ipod touch with a phone......?"
    That's fine. That's from the starting gate. Now imagine that the 2nd generation of the Iphone has 3G, but for whatever reason in the third generation they decide to release an Iphone that's 2G. See how it's two steps forward, one step back?

    This isn't difficult. If you stop for a second and think about it you'll see that your argument is the same as mine. Somehow you come out with a different conclusion.
    11-16-09 06:22 PM
  25. Dsmithjr's Avatar
    An easier way to put it would be to just imagine what people would think if the next gen iPhone doesn't have WIFI. I think it would be fair to call that a step backward.

    However, I don't know if the lack of WIFI on the Tour was solely RIM's fault, or if the carriers (namely Verizon) had something to do with it.

    Edit: Whoops, it looks like you beat me to the point.
    11-16-09 06:24 PM
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