[dubengeldu]

from what ive seen pi was a 10year anniversary incrementally efficient overhaul ofthe complete android brand

Q the enhancement of it

*********
Does anyone know why BB took more than a year, soon two years?! For an implementation

**********

Buisy filling oreos holes? Nougat holes?

Instead incremental shift ?
Resources?

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

from what ive seen pi was a 10year anniversary incrementally efficient overhaul ofthe complete android brand

Q the enhancement of it

*********
Does anyone know why BB took more than a year, soon two years?! For an implementation

**********

Buisy filling oreos holes? Nougat holes?

Instead incremental shift ?
Resources?

Posted via CB10

BBAndroid has always tracked one year behind and I assume that’s for OS version stability purposes.

[RK_BB]

BBAndroid has always tracked one year behind and I assume that’s for OS version stability purposes.

Soon to be two versions behind.

[Chuck Finley69]

Soon to be two versions behind.

Same as last year around same month or so.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Does anyone know why BB took more than a year, soon two years?! For an implementation

Resources and priorities.

It's not like BB has 200 developers working on major updates all day long - smartphones aren't anything close to their primary business anymore, and they really only provide the development that TCL is willing to pay for.

BB Ltd. had 3 licensee and were expecting several (3+) million devices a year to be sold. Instead, 2 of the licensees have dropped out, with one refusing to pay owed royalties, and the remaining licensee (TCL) only selling around 1M BB-branded devices per year. At that level of sales, there's just not a lot of money for TCL to fund development, and BB isn't going to do it for free, so, at best, it's done by a tiny skeleton crew as a low priority. Again, had the sales been there, there would have been more money for more staff and a higher priority for development, and you might have had Oreo six months ago - but that's not how it turned out.

It's quite possible that sales have fallen to the point where the project simply isn't viable for either BB Ltd. or TCL.

[thurask]

At this point BB is effectively Oracle; two dozen lawyers for every engineer.

[dubengeldu]

Wow
I assumed its a full healthy equal jointventure of bb+a partner to continue their devices with pride and quality

Ihad noidea its a dump of somesorts tomilk the name as a low priority income stream

Wow


Ah btw blah oreo. Yeypie. Likely eeeekyey q

[Bbnivende]

Resources and priorities.

It's not like BB has 200 developers working on major updates all day long - smartphones aren't anything close to their primary business anymore, and they really only provide the development that TCL is willing to pay for.

BB Ltd. had 3 licensee and were expecting several (3+) million devices a year to be sold. Instead, 2 of the licensees have dropped out, with one refusing to pay owed royalties, and the remaining licensee (TCL) only selling around 1M BB-branded devices per year. At that level of sales, there's just not a lot of money for TCL to fund development, and BB isn't going to do it for free, so, at best, it's done by a tiny skeleton crew as a low priority. Again, had the sales been there, there would have been more money for more staff and a higher priority for development, and you might have had Oreo six months ago - but that's not how it turned out.

It's quite possible that sales have fallen to the point where the project simply isn't viable for either BB Ltd. or TCL.

Just an opinion. We presume that previous BB10 / BBAndroid individual owners are the primary purchasers of the Key2 and LE. These individual owners are mainly concentrated in Canada,USA, UK and Europe in general. In order to meet a Million unit target the USA has to be a big buyer . Previously you put out a number like 50k where as more likely they would need to sell something like a minimum 300 k in USA sales. What I am saying is that a million unit sales seems to be very generous .

[Chuck Finley69]

At this point BB is effectively Oracle; two dozen lawyers for every engineer.

Nobody complained when it was thought BB was sunk under water, all those lawyers with them :-D

[Troy Tiscareno]

Just an opinion. We presume that previous BB10 / BBAndroid individual owners are the primary purchasers of the Key2 and LE. These individual owners are mainly concentrated in Canada,USA, UK and Europe in general. In order to meet a Million unit target the USA has to be a big buyer . Previously you put out a number like 50k where as more likely they would need to sell something like a minimum 300 k in USA sales. What I am saying is that a million unit sales seems to be very generous .

To be fair, I pulled those "example" numbers out of my backside (though they're probably not far off), and I actually suspect that K2/K2LE sales are probably under 1M combined, but, yes, the US is likely responsible for at least 40% of BBMo sales, with Canada maybe 15-20%, Europe probably 30%, and the remaining 10% or so everywhere else.

And the fact that the K2 series (including the LE) has seen so little carrier support means that K2 sales almost certainly didn't match K1 sales, which had much better carrier support. And obviously, that bodes very poorly for the brand as a whole, which was already tenuous at best.

[the_boon]

To be fair, I pulled those "example" numbers out of my backside (though they're probably not far off), and I actually suspect that K2/K2LE sales are probably under 1M combined, but, yes, the US is likely responsible for at least 40% of BBMo sales, with Canada maybe 15-20%, Europe probably 30%, and the remaining 10% or so everywhere else.

And the fact that the K2 series (including the LE) has seen so little carrier support means that K2 sales almost certainly didn't match K1 sales, which had much better carrier support. And obviously, that bodes very poorly for the brand as a whole, which was already tenuous at best.

Seems like there's no saving the BlackBerry name.

If TCL couldn't do it, who can? (Aside from someone like Samsung who has the resources to pull this name out of the grave, but why would they?)

I strongly believe the BB name should be put to rest and if TCL is interested in making niche PKB phones, just use the Palm name or alternatively Alcatel or TCL and call it a day.
The BB tax is too damn high to be sustainable, and not enough care about BBAndroid so it only makes sense for them to part ways.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Seems like there's no saving the BlackBerry name.

If TCL couldn't do it, who can? (Aside from someone like Samsung who has the resources to pull this name out of the grave, but why would they?)

I strongly believe the BB name should be put to rest and if TCL is interested in making niche PKB phones, just use the Palm name or alternatively Alcatel or TCL and call it a day.
The BB tax is too damn high to be sustainable, and not enough care about BBAndroid so it only makes sense for them to part ways.

Problem is I think some did care about Android Secure and/or the Brand....

If you look at those rumored (unverifiable) numbers of 350K last year and less than 100K so far this year.... A PKB phone would be a huge risk, unless your comfortable with that few a number of sales.

But then I'd be surprised if that tiny Palm phone has come close to 100K in sales... And then what if they do build it, and it's another carrier/market exclusive....

[conite]

Problem is I think some did care about Android Secure and/or the Brand....

If you look at those rumored (unverifiable) numbers of 350K last year and less than 100K so far this year.... A PKB phone would be a huge risk, unless your comfortable with that few a number of sales.

But then I'd be surprised if that tiny Palm phone has come close to 100K in sales... And then what if they do build it, and it's another carrier/market exclusive....

But if TCL could sell a few hundred thousand pkb units, without brand licencing and OS-licencing fees, and without the entirely of the BlackBerry Mobile infrastructure, and did so at the right price, they could probably make it work.

It just depends how sour their relationship with BlackBerry has become, and whether they could even get a pkb licence from them.

[ray689]

But if TCL could sell a few hundred thousand pkb units, without brand licencing and OS-licencing fees, and without the entirely of the BlackBerry Mobile infrastructure, and did so at the right price, they could probably make it work.

It just depends how sour their relationship with BlackBerry has become, and whether they could even get a pkb licence from them.

Sour relationship? I thought you said everything has been running just fine and they're just moving to 2 year upgrade cycles?

[conite]

Sour relationship? I thought you said everything has been running just fine and they're just moving to 2 year upgrade cycles?

Never said anything of the sort.

I said I will expect things to continue as stated until or unless we hear otherwise or see otherwise.

If we don't get Pie by Sep, it would indicate a problem. If we don't see a KEY³ by MWC, it would indicate a problem.

By sour, I'm referring to the unsubstantiated (but entirely plausible) report in the other thread, and playing devil's advocate.

[ray689]

Never said anything of the sort.

I said I will expect things to continue as stated until or unless we hear otherwise or see otherwise.

If we don't get Pie by Sep, it would indicate a problem. If we don't see a KEY³ by MWC, it would indicate a problem.

By sour, I'm referring to the unsubstantiated (but entirely plausible) report in the other thread, and playing devil's advocate.

Actually yes you did. Any time anyone would bring up the current situation as it is with the info we had (which looks bleak), you would cite the TCL ran number and they decided to focus on other markets because they've exhausted the US with the current device. Then you wold cite an exec who said they are going to 2 year upgrade cycles and call it a good move because most users are holding onto devices longer. You can claim whatever you want but you were the one person in here who didn't want to see the writing on the wall when everyone else could.

[conite]

Actually yes you did. Any time anyone would bring up the current situation as it is with the info we had (which looks bleak), you would cite the TCL ran number and they decided to focus on other markets because they've exhausted the US with the current device. Then you wold cite an exec who said they are going to 2 year upgrade cycles and call it a good move because most users are holding onto devices longer. You can claim whatever you want but you were the one person in here who didn't want to see the writing on the wall when everyone else could.

Well that's true for sure. They have inventory, and they are trying to move it, and will use whatever markets currently offer the best ROI.

I also related the fact that they were extending the device cycle. Also true. As of last Feb, they stated unequivocally that we should not expect a device this summer.

I see no contradiction.

[ray689]

Well that's true for sure. They have inventory, and they are trying to move it, and will use whatever markets currently offer the best ROI.

I also related the fact that they were extending the device cycle. Also true. As of last Feb, they stated unequivocally that we should not expect a device this summer.

I see no contradiction.

Look man, I don't need to tell anyone in here because we all see your posts. I at one point stated that they are likely getting rid of remaining inventory where ever they can before folding up shop because that's where the signs are pointing. I don't need to write what your response to that was but I'm pretty sure you and everyone knows. After-all, you had 10% of the info remember? lol. But its cute for you pretend that you were kind of in agreement with people this whole time and didn't actually spend every waking moment trying to come up with "explanations" as to why things seem to be going the way they are. When the only explanation is that they failed. Plain and simple.

[conite]

Look man, I don't need to tell anyone in here because we all see your posts. I at one point stated that they are likely getting rid of remaining inventory where ever they can before folding up shop because that's where the signs are pointing. I don't need to write what your response to that was but I'm pretty sure you and everyone knows. After-all, you had 10% of the info remember? lol. But its cute for you pretend that you were kind of in agreement with people this whole time and didn't actually spend every waking moment trying to come up with "explanations" as to why things seem to be going the way they are. When the only explanation is that they failed. Plain and simple.

You said they were getting rid of inventory in NA because they are likely packing it in.

I responded that the two are unrelated.

The same post in the other thread said they were using parts to build new product for the Red and (we know already) for the EU -5xx variants.

They could have built NA devices instead if they thought it would give them better bang for their buck. But they didn't.

Again, the current stock allocations are mutually exclusive from the ultimate fate of the licencing agreement.

If you think I was providing some guarantee or even some assessment of the likelihood of the continued existence of the licence agreement, you are misreading my posts.

I'm simply not prepared to jump to conclusions until one or both of the two dates come and go - Sep for Pie (or at least a solid commitment), or MWC for a KEY³.

[ray689]

You said they were getting rid of inventory in NA because they are likely packing it in.

I responded that the two are unrelated.

The same post in the other thread said they were using parts to build new product for the Red and (we know already) for the EU -5xx variants.

They could have built NA devices instead if they thought it would give them better bang for their buck. But they didn't.

Again, the current stock allocations are mutually exclusive from the ultimate fate of the licencing agreement.

If you think I was providing some guarantee or even some assessment of the likelihood of the continued existence of the licence agreement, you are misreading my posts.

I'm simply not prepared to jump to conclusions until one or both of the two dates come and go - Sep for Pie (or at least a solid commitment), or MWC for a KEY³.

LMAO:

Person 1: Things look pretty bleak. Seems likes TCL is re-thinking this licence agreement and likely on last legs given the info (or extreme lack of info in comparison to when they started) we have now.

Conite: They ran the numbers and clearly realized they can't move any product in the US so they are focused on other markets. And Pie is coming this summer. And they said they are moving to 2 years upgrade cycles so we will see a device in 2020.

Point is, people saw the signs, you failed to see them. And then you cite some exec from Feb and when told that what they said doesn't really mean much you got defensive even though time and again historically, what exec say has proven to not mean much.

[conite]

LMAO:

Person 1: Things look pretty bleak. Seems likes TCL is re-thinking this licence agreement and likely on last legs given the info (or extreme lack of info in comparison to when they started) we have now.

Conite: They ran the numbers and clearly realized they can't move any product in the US so they are focused on other markets. And Pie is coming this summer. And they said they are moving to 2 years upgrade cycles so we will see a device in 2020.

Point is, people saw the signs, you failed to see them. And then you cite some exec from Feb and when told that what they said doesn't really mean much you got defensive even though time and again historically, what exec say has proven to not mean much.

I'm simply not prepared to panic until hard lines have been crossed. Call it glass half-full, not leaning into snipets of information, or not reacting to a lack of communication.

It would be different if I thought consumers needed to do something to protect themselves in the event of not achieving the targets - like with the current situation with BB10 EOL date.

My biggest argument was with regards to NA stock. I hold to my views on that.

[the_boon]

I'm simply not prepared to panic until hard lines have been crossed. Call it glass half-full, not leaning into snipets of information, or not reacting to a lack of communication.

My biggest argument was with regards to NA stock. I hold to my views on that.

And what will you do when comes time to panic?

Which devices/manufacturers would you look forward to?

[ray689]

I'm simply not prepared to panic until hard lines have been crossed. Call it glass half-full, not leaning into snipets of information, or not reacting to a lack of communication.

.

Okay well that is a fair enough statement. However, you are defending based on zero information or maybe little snipets from 8 months ago or whatever the case is.

[conite]

And what will you do when comes time to panic?

Which devices/manufacturers would you look forward to?

If that becomes the case, I suppose I would ride out my KEY² as long as possible, and then see what is available at that time. If BlackBerry was successful in licencing its keyboard tech to someone else, I would obviously take a hard look. Otherwise, I will begrudgingly look to one of the popular slabs - either Google or Android One.

[conite]

Okay well that is a fair enough statement. However, you are defending based on zero information or maybe little snipets from 8 months ago or whatever the case is.

I see how it can be viewed that way as far as the KEY³ timeline is concerned, but at least it was a snipet that came from the GM. I will give them the benefit of the doubt, but I will have to see some signs of it fairly soon, or even I will be concerned.