11-30-17 07:43 PM
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  1. gizmo21's Avatar
    Google collects Android users’ locations through cell tower data even when location services are disabled and our DTEK does not tell us.
    https://qz.com/1131515/google-collec...-are-disabled/

    This is the another point that shows you can't trust DTEK as
    1: they don't monitor BlackBerry and google preloaded apps
    2: they perhaps even can't monitor such now revealed hidden background functions in the OS
    joker333 likes this.
    11-22-17 12:42 AM
  2. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    And Google explains all this if you look it up. As I recall, if you turn off Location Services, you will get a warning that some apps may not work well without it. There is also a notification icon that shows when an app is accessing your exact location information.
    11-22-17 01:16 AM
  3. Event4izon's Avatar
    And Google explains all this if you look it up. As I recall, if you turn off Location Services, you will get a warning that some apps may not work well without it. There is also a notification icon that shows when an app is accessing your exact location information.
    This is happening behind the scenes, regardless of your Location Services settings.
    gizmo21 and joker333 like this.
    11-22-17 09:31 AM
  4. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    This is happening behind the scenes, regardless of your Location Services settings.
    And this is just one of the ways that the Internet helps to pay for itself.
    11-22-17 01:44 PM
  5. gizmo21's Avatar
    11-22-17 05:35 PM
  6. Event4izon's Avatar
    There are many ways the Internet can pay for itself, some ways are more or less ethical than others.
    11-22-17 08:50 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    This is happening behind the scenes, regardless of your Location Services settings.
    Carriers have been doing this for years and will continue to do so. At least Google has stopped.
    11-22-17 09:10 PM
  8. Doityourself's Avatar
    what a load of crap

    it's like saying if my WiFi is disabled it will still show nearby hotspots

    ridiculous!!!
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-22-17 09:42 PM
  9. conite's Avatar

    This is the another point that shows you can't trust DTEK
    I have great confidence in DTEK / Integrity Detection. I've just always understood that BlackBerry and Google are exempt. Somewhat understandable when owning a BlackBerry/Google device - if I wasn't willing to live with them, I would be buying something else.
    11-22-17 10:26 PM
  10. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    And this is just one of the ways that the Internet helps to pay for itself.
    WTH has to do Google tracking your phone location with "internet paying for itself"??
    11-22-17 10:54 PM
  11. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    There are many ways the Internet can pay for itself, some ways are more or less ethical than others.
    Since when internet pays for itself?? We all pay for it. What are you guys talking about???
    11-22-17 10:56 PM
  12. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    And Google explains all this if you look it up. As I recall, if you turn off Location Services, you will get a warning that some apps may not work well without it. There is also a notification icon that shows when an app is accessing your exact location information.
    Yep, and even if you don't care about some apps not working, and still turn off Location Services, they keep tracking you without you even knowing about it, until someone exposed it, and then they stopped doing that.
    gizmo21 and joker333 like this.
    11-22-17 10:59 PM
  13. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    If the allegations above are true then....
    I guess that's what the power-off button is for (turning off location tracking -undocumented feature) .....highly inconvenient though. (and very likely not limited to Android)

    Is that why they stopped designing removeable batteries in most smartphones? Because you could be certain of no longer being tracked?...unless of course there are embedded rfid tags in the devices as well. Seems like it should be a user's choice, maybe the premium devices should get removeable batteries, while the masses can continue to be tracked like the tagging of animals in the wild? a little ant-farm? hmm sometimes it makes you wonder where this is all leading to, and what abuse of information (personal data groping) could be happening now or in the future. Gosh for that matter I might be afraid to go for surgery if there was a possibility of implanting an rfid pill in the body......oh wait....I shouldn't worry because retinal scanners (like on the iphone ) will be tracking me, when the traffic and security camera's get an update...unlesss I buy the bb10 retinal dispersion contacts that randomly create one of a trillion unique retinal patterns every few minutes or so to confuse the scanners...well that or some really good sunglasses (lol - well maybe)...
    ....
    or maybe its like this, if you can "innoculate" >95% (or whatever) of the population with smartphone trackers, you can easily track the rest by satellite imagery or a nextgen of traditional security camera software, whether they have a tag on them or not. WoW! We're all in the petri dish now. Creepy! Kirk: Computer where is Dr. McCoy? Computer: He is on level 3 deck 12....(though at least in Star Trek if you removed the communicator from your uniform, it couldn't find you on the planet....but anyone could be tracked on the ship whether they wore one or not. I don't think Mars has any cellular networks yet....any volunteers?
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-23-17 at 01:50 AM.
    11-23-17 01:04 AM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yep, and even if you don't care about some apps not working, and still turn off Location Services, they keep tracking you without you even knowing about it, until someone exposed it, and then they stopped doing that.
    They will keep collecting your data. They all will. Even BB collected your data. It's how companies accomplish many tasks for many reasons good or bad. Participate in society, or don't. You leave a footprint either way. Like the eye of a hurricane, the storm and the calm are both visible....
    11-23-17 10:39 AM
  15. Invictus0's Avatar
    I have great confidence in DTEK / Integrity Detection. I've just always understood that BlackBerry and Google are exempt. Somewhat understandable when owning a BlackBerry/Google device - if I wasn't willing to live with them, I would be buying something else.
    I don't believe DTEK monitors this permission anyway. It would be interesting if BlackBerry used this as an opportunity to expand DTEK's capabilities.

    They will keep collecting your data. They all will. Even BB collected your data. It's how companies accomplish many tasks for many reasons good or bad. Participate in society, or don't. You leave a footprint either way. Like the eye of a hurricane, the storm and the calm are both visible....
    Certainly nothing like this where a users permissions are secretly ignored. BlackBerry was never interested in data like Google is anyway, they made their money from BIS and enterprise. Telemetry and data collection was usually opt in by default on BB devices while many Google services are opt out.
    11-23-17 11:09 AM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    This isn’t even a smartphone issue. This is exactly the data that carriers capture on every mobile phone ever, including every single BlackBerry ever made.

    And yes, carriers have been selling this same data for years.
    11-23-17 11:15 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I don't believe DTEK monitors this permission anyway. It would be interesting if BlackBerry used this as an opportunity to expand DTEK's capabilities.



    Certainly nothing like this where a users permissions are secretly ignored. BlackBerry was never interested in data like Google is anyway, they made their money from BIS and enterprise. Telemetry and data collection was usually opt in by default on BB devices while many Google services are opt out.
    Yes, but if you didn't opt-in, you couldn't benefit from many device features that required things like your location. Bulk or anonymous user data has been collected for years and I'm certain that BB hands are not clean. That's ok because clean hands would suggest laziness at improving user experience.

    The Internet, mobile or not, changed everything as we know it. Right?
    11-23-17 11:23 AM
  18. Invictus0's Avatar
    This isn’t even a smartphone issue. This is exactly the data that carriers capture on every mobile phone ever, including every single BlackBerry ever made.

    And yes, carriers have been selling this same data for years.
    What carriers do with Cell ID data depends on the carrier and country but there are legitimate uses for it as well (911 calls for example). Why does Google need to bypass user permissions to get access to it?

    Yes, but if you didn't opt-in, you couldn't benefit from many device features that required things like your location. Bulk or anonymous user data has been collected for years and I'm certain that BB hands are not clean. That's ok because clean hands would suggest laziness at improving user experience.

    The Internet, mobile or not, changed everything as we know it. Right?
    Sure but this type of tracking circumvents Android itself. Google was taking this data and sending it to their servers without user consent (opt in or not, it didn't matter). That's why there's such an uproar.
    11-23-17 11:33 AM
  19. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    What carriers do with Cell ID data depends on the carrier and country but there are legitimate uses for it as well (911 calls for example). Why does Google need to bypass user permissions to get access to it?



    Sure but this type of tracking circumvents Android itself. Google was taking this data and sending it to their servers without user consent (opt in or not, it didn't matter). That's why there's such an uproar.
    ...and now home-despot takes your picture when you use some of their self-check out lines. That goes into a database along with your purchases. What happens after that? one can only imagine...Do you have any say in that? Sir Can I take your picture....No....Too bad, I'll take it anyways. Can we then go and stalk the board of directors and record their every move? What do you think? No you would get your a** whipped if you tried. But its okay really, I'm just anonymizing his name, where's the harm? In the data world your picture is your name/id, your retina is your name/id, your fingerprint is your name/id....etc...you are now possibly in the eyesights of the Deer Hunter oops....Deliverance (cue banjo).
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-23-17 at 02:12 PM.
    11-23-17 01:44 PM
  20. Invictus0's Avatar
    ...and now home-despot takes your picture when you use some of their self-check out lines. That goes into a database along with your purchases. What happens after that? one can only imagine...Do you have any say in that? Sir Can I take your picture....No....Too bad, I'll take it anyways. Can we then go and stalk the board of directors and record their every move? What do you think? No you would get your a** whipped if you tried. But its okay really, I'm just anonymizing his name, where's the harm? In the data world your picture is your name/id, your retina is your name/id, your fingerprint is your name/id....etc...you are now possibly in the eyesights of the Deer Hunter (cue banjo).
    Well, you're being recorded anyway in many stores by security cameras and you have the option of just using a cashier or shopping online so it's not really the same thing. In this case a user could opt out of Google's telemetry program, disable location services, permissions and Google will still send back location data in secret.
    G_Unit MVP and cyberdoggie like this.
    11-23-17 02:04 PM
  21. gizmo21's Avatar
    This isn’t even a smartphone issue. This is exactly the data that carriers capture on every mobile phone ever, including every single BlackBerry ever made.

    And yes, carriers have been selling this same data for years.
    Carriers don't have to collect cell-tower data on the phone, cause they get your IMEI on their cell-towers to provide you with the service you are paying for. And I know my carrier does not sells those and even if they use it they are not able to connect many more data with them (like Google can).

    Google does circumvent their own permission system to collect data for a more than fishy reason

    It's the same Apple did several years ago where I guess many of the former BB10 users laught cause of the insecurity of apple devices.
    G_Unit MVP likes this.
    11-23-17 02:05 PM
  22. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Well, you're being recorded anyway in many stores by security cameras and you have the option of just using a cashier or shopping online so it's not really the same thing. In this case a user could opt out of Google's telemetry program, disable location services, permissions and Google will still send back location data in secret.
    Passive recording for security is one thing (to review the tapes)...but converting and merging that into a database filled with other information....do I get paid as an extra, and did I sign any wavers? is quite another thing altogether. As is close-up high-resolution photography - in which you are not aware of, until it is done to you is quite the other thing.... and are you advised of what they are doing with that information? Can you opt out?. Does your delivery service take your fingerprint, when you sign your name with your fingers on their signature pads? Can you opt out of having your fingerprints recorded? I Whose' protecting that data, and is it really safe, just look at the history of this, even companies in the business of protecting data have had disturbing breaches. There are countless data breaches that are occuring with peoples identity data, Identity theft is not pretty (not to mention mis-use of never before had data, in ways never dreamt of before) , it has happened to people I know.

    I have the name for the next version of Android.....P....it should be called Pandora's Box .
    CrackNutRun likes this.
    11-23-17 02:27 PM
  23. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    They will keep collecting your data. They all will. Even BB collected your data. It's how companies accomplish many tasks for many reasons good or bad. Participate in society, or don't. You leave a footprint either way. Like the eye of a hurricane, the storm and the calm are both visible....
    Yep, we know how it works, but that doesn't make right... nor the fact that "everybody is doing it".
    11-23-17 02:58 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    I posted this in the other thread on this subject:

    No third party gets access to your private data. Google "sells" the data, but doesn't release the data.

    But you do understand that in return you get access to a ton of apps and services, right? It's an agreed upon mutual relationship.

    My location data has little value to me. This is a way that I can CHOOSE (by buying a Google phone and accepting the TOS) to monetize that information for MY benefit. I look at it as Google purchasing that data from ME.

    If not for Google and others like them, the services that I now have access to would cost me many thousands of dollars - if I could even get them at all. Quite a bargain for my location and browsing habits.
    Fastmarc likes this.
    11-23-17 03:19 PM
  25. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I posted this in the other thread on this subject:

    No third party gets access to your private data. Google "sells" the data, but doesn't release the data.

    But you do understand that in return you get access to a ton of apps and services, right? It's an agreed upon mutual relationship.

    My location data has little value to me. This is a way that I can CHOOSE (by buying a Google phone and accepting the TOS) to monetize that information for MY benefit. I look at it as Google purchasing that data from ME.

    If not for Google and others like them, the services that I now have access to would cost me many thousands of dollars - if I could even get them at all. Quite a bargain for my location and browsing habits.
    Who's watching the Watchers? Not sure its a bargain, when its the only supplier in town, and you must agree to their terms. At least when bb10 was around, there was a perception they weren't using the customer as a saleable asset in data-chains (lol)
    11-23-17 03:31 PM
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